❖❖LF Chat v13.0❖❖Unlocking your genetic fat loss potential, now with more waffles❖❖

[Ammex]

I lift 6 times a week, 13-14% body fat according to ppl's estimates on here. Only 23 years old so should be pretty high, but as I said it fluctuates from 14-24.

That's 404-692 when converted. I don't know why the pmol/l is used because it makes it seem way closer to normal than it actually is. Look at this chart and tell me you don't have low T.



Now. The huge caveat with T is if it is low FOR YOU. For you, that might not be low, but if you are symptomatic then clearly it is. You dip into the 5th percentile, so if Drs ignore your symptoms, shop around cause they don't care about making you healthy.

[Ammex]

Yea, Ammex, I hope you get some clarity on what's going on. I can imagine how that would severely affect your day to day life, energy, workouts, etc. Geez.

I basically haven't slept in 2.5 years. I mean, I sleep, but I toss and turn all night and never get R.E.M. sleep. That alone can be causing 95% of my other symptoms, but the question still remains why it's happening to begin with. I'm out of ideas, personally, beyond the Endo and the sleep clinic I'm booked in for. There isn't much way to explain what it feels like to be tired all. The. Time. Like sleepy or whatever people know, but unless you've done something for sleep deprivation like elite military training, most people haven't experienced being tired. As someone who has done those and operated at a very very high level on about 10 hours sleep in 5 days, I can tell you my performance was still better than it is now. Wouldn't wish this on anyone.

[EjnarKolinkar]

I basically haven't slept in 2.5 years. I mean, I sleep, but I toss and turn all night and never get R.E.M. sleep.

Yep, we always sleep some, but the quality can be so low. I was in a similar boat for few years. It's horrible on the body JMO.

Like sleepy or whatever people know, but unless you've done something for sleep deprivation like elite military training, most people haven't experienced being tired.

Sniveling and level of affect on body and wellness are not related. So while one may not be "tired" the effect of prolonged deprivation still have cumulative effect. Not that I like snivelers, or support sniveling in general. We often underestimate our capacity, but unfortunately also overestimate our recovery.

[Ammex]

Yep, we always sleep some, but the quality can be so low. I was in a similar boat for few years. It's horrible on the body JMO.



Sniveling and level of affect on body and wellness are not related. So while one may not be "tired" the effect of prolonged deprivation still have cumulative effect. Not that I like snivelers, or support sniveling in general. We often underestimate our capacity, but unfortunately also overestimate our recovery.

Yeah people definitely hit a "wall" no where near their potential, with pretty much anything. Pretty sure it's a survival mechanism so we aren't read-lined all the time.

And I understand and agree with what you're saying about the cumulative effects vs just being a whiner, but that's basically what I was saying. You can't understand what chronic fatigue feels like unless you've been there, but if you've been in situations where you've been truly sleep deprived you can at least kinda invinision what it would be like.

Example: you can function, and you surprisingly don't lose much strength, but endurance definitely takes a hit after a few days of serious deprivation. That feeling of everything being laboured is what I feel like all the time, so I could explain that to them and they could kinda understand.

Someone who is "tired" cause someone in their protected little bubble world woke them up through the night 1 time could never understand.

[EjnarKolinkar]

Lol'd at bubble people.

When you look at overtraining for example, prolonged sub maximal work and accumulated fatigue seem to promote negative results more than intensity bouts.

We are usually smart enough to see we wrecked ourselves in an all out effort, but with accomulated fatigue, I think it's insidious. And in the case of mounting fatigue most people with strong wills will just rub dirt on it, and push on.

[EjnarKolinkar]

I had to get SRS about sleep hygenie. Flux on the comp. Blacked out the led's on everything in the bedroom, cut back on caffiene, try to relax more at night and wind down etc.

Getting off on call stats helped. Plus forcing myself to lie in bed if I wake up early. Many times I do get back to sleep.

[Ammex]

I had to get SRS about sleep hygenie. Flux on the comp. Blacked out the led's on everything in the bedroom, cut back on caffiene, try to relax more at night and wind down etc.

Getting off on call stats helped. Plus forcing myself to lie in bed if I wake up early. Many times I do get back to sleep.

I've been off work for almost 2 months now and it's still not much better. I already have my room geared for shift work sleeping, tried different mattresses and pillows, no (well, minimal) caffeine, same bed time every night, diet overhaul, melatonin, ZMA, 5thp+theanine, countless other sleep supps, etc.... not going to say it isn't slightly better, but a decent night here and there isn't making up for all the rest.

And the just started new construction right across from me, and I expect behind me to start this year, so going to have to get white noise going. Have used it before and it doesn't improve quality but will keep me from being woken up by minor noises.

[Serpentarius]

I basically haven't slept in 2.5 years. I mean, I sleep, but I toss and turn all night and never get R.E.M. sleep. That alone can be causing 95% of my other symptoms, but the question still remains why it's happening to begin with. I'm out of ideas, personally, beyond the Endo and the sleep clinic I'm booked in for. There isn't much way to explain what it feels like to be tired all. The. Time. Like sleepy or whatever people know, but unless you've done something for sleep deprivation like elite military training, most people haven't experienced being tired. As someone who has done those and operated at a very very high level on about 10 hours sleep in 5 days, I can tell you my performance was still better than it is now. Wouldn't wish this on anyone.

may be clinical depression. i havent slept in years, constantly tired every single day.

[Ammex]

may be clinical depression. i havent slept in years, constantly tired every single day.

You sound like every Dr on the planet. Finally found one that wants to listen but the one right before that cut me off mid sentence discribing synptoms to ask if I was seeing a shrink. Wouldn't even run tests because it was "probably" all in my head. BRB balls atrophy cause I'm sad...

Edit: my shrink has been practicing for 25+ years and makes TV appearances and such, quite successful, and he's legit mad that Drs aren't taking me serious and offered to do consults with them because it's not in my head.

[Serpentarius]

its not that its being "depressed" or sad about about anything, but a physiological chemical imbalance of the brain, or a mood disorder that affects people on a different level and works on a sliding scale of severity. i think most assume clinical depression means = im sad about something

i have it, my life is fine, i feel like crap 24/7

edit clinical depression is not depression

[NitrogenWidget]

hey @cap how are ya, nice to see ya. boston's weather is getting to my favorite part of the year.

anyway can someone give me a reliable source on bruce lee's diet? im just curious as to what he ate on a daily basis for years on end. plus any other cool things about him you think i should know, throw it at me. i'm practicing my own style of martial arts and for some reason he's been popping in my head lately.

are you trying to achieve his level of 365/days a yr rippedness?
or just wondering how he didn't tear tendons and ligaments and chit from all the stuff he did?

i'd be interested in his diet also because i don't think it was all genetics.

[NitrogenWidget]

spent day dragging 3ft diameter oak tree trunks to the splitter.
also shocked hot tub and left cover off all day.
Picked up a 6 pack of fresh as helles and now it's a race to see what gets toast first.
Hot tub or me.

oak is fk'n heavy y'all.

thought my elbows were gonna pop trying to spin it under the wood splitter.

i really need a soak in the hot tub after today.

[EjnarKolinkar]

And the just started new construction right across from me, and I expect behind me to start this year, so going to have to get white noise going. Have used it before and it doesn't improve quality but will keep me from being woken up by minor noises.

I use music many nights if the neighbors are in party down mode. They entertain clients a lot. Great people and they do try to keep it down.

Aside from working on your other issues. I'll say staying in bed and trying to sleep for as long as possible helped me. Many times I'd get up, and there is zero chance of sleep that way. If I stay in bed no matter how restless I do often pick up another few hours.

[Kreytus]

I basically haven't slept in 2.5 years. I mean, I sleep, but I toss and turn all night and never get R.E.M. sleep. That alone can be causing 95% of my other symptoms, but the question still remains why it's happening to begin with. I'm out of ideas, personally, beyond the Endo and the sleep clinic I'm booked in for. There isn't much way to explain what it feels like to be tired all. The. Time. Like sleepy or whatever people know, but unless you've done something for sleep deprivation like elite military training, most people haven't experienced being tired. As someone who has done those and operated at a very very high level on about 10 hours sleep in 5 days, I can tell you my performance was still better than it is now. Wouldn't wish this on anyone.

Wow, this hits home with me. I've been to multiple sleep specialists and no one has any ideas why I'm so tired. I don't have sleep apnea. Blood tests always come back 'normal'. Sleep 8 hours a night on average. It doesn't add up but no one can figure it out so I've kind of given up on figuring it out. Maybe in a couple more years when science progresses. For now, the only way I get through a good workout is a preworkout lol.

[Ammex]

@Serp, I understand that it's a chemical imbalance. I was diagnosed with that, and with PTSD which is an actual injury. However, there are other things that present the same way, and since I have other physical side effects that don't match either one, why ignore the obvious (like so many Drs try to do with ZERO evidence to support their decision). You can't diagnose someone with clinical depression in 7-10 minutes which GPs frequently are trying to do just to push them out the door with anti-depressants - which don't work for the majority of people as it's a shotgun approach for a specific problem, yet no one wants to try and identify what the problem actually is. I took Finasteride for years, warning labels are changed to list serious long term issues (including depression as one of the most common), there are multiple class action lawsuits, thousands and thousands of people have been studied, there is a growing amount of literature, support groups, and evidence for post-Finasteride syndrome...........

Why would I ignore that I have almost every symptom associated to it (and it's a long, long list) when I've taken the drug for years? Why wouldn't I at least want to rule it out as a possibility when it's such a likely one? There is no more evidence that it's a mental health issue than there is that magic unicorn witches put a curse on me.

Aside from working on your other issues. I'll say staying in bed and trying to sleep for as long as possible helped me. Many times I'd get up, and there is zero chance of sleep that way. If I stay in bed no matter how restless I do often pick up another few hours.

This is exactly the opposite of what lots of experts say to do though, and is not at all what our bodies did naturally before electricity. If I get up for an hour or so and do something that isn't stimulating, maybe take melatonin, I can go back to sleep.

For now, the only way I get through a good workout is a preworkout lol.

This is a terrible approach if you think there is ACTUALLY something else wrong. But, especially now, like 99% of people with sleep issues have them because of lifestyle.

[spradish]

I had very bad sleep apnea when I was fat (AHI score in the 80s.) CPAP and losing weight did wonders for me. I can only imagine the exhaustion you're dealing with, Ammex. Sorry if I missed where you already said it but how soon can you get in to see the endo? Hope he can get to the bottom of the issue.

Grill flared up/flashed over last night. Quite an experience. Do not recommend, thought it is a fast way to rid yourself of arm hair.

[EjnarKolinkar]

A note for any new readers. Several of the regulars in here were obese at one point.

Well I had very, very large bones, and I also had gobs of big man muscles under all the fat

Obese pic still in my bodyspace though.

[Ammex]

I had very bad sleep apnea when I was fat (AHI score in the 80s.) CPAP and losing weight did wonders for me. I can only imagine the exhaustion you're dealing with, Ammex. Sorry if I missed where you already said it but how soon can you get in to see the endo? Hope he can get to the bottom of the issue.

Grill flared up/flashed over last night. Quite an experience. Do not recommend, thought it is a fast way to rid yourself of arm hair.

May 5th for Endo, June 19th for clinical sleep study. At this point I don't care what the answer is, I just want an answer.

[EjnarKolinkar]

This is exactly the opposite of what lots of experts say to do though, and is not at all what our bodies did naturally before electricity.

IDK what all that means honestly. If I am standing up in the kitchen or typing on a computer I have zero chance of sleep. If I lie in bed I fall back asleep for some period of time most of the time. Even if the sleep is broken or of poor quality it's better than nothing. Did it today woke up at 3:15, became concerned I was up too early and that I would not fall back asleep. Did not get up and check the phone. Rolled over and tried to relax. IDK when but I fell back asleep and slept till 7 AM.

So what would have happened if I got up and started paying bills on the comp?

[Serpentarius]

Im not sure about drugs and all that stuff or the one you mentioned, i dont believe in taking anything, i feel if you have to suffer, its what you are meant to deal with and what life gave you, personal conviction.
Many doctors i know would prescribe quickly any medication, like the abundance of kids of supposedly have ADD/HD when they just need their asses beat and some hobbbies or good parenting. I know people like to think their life is awful and think they have clinical depression when they are just bored too, its just too easy for doctors to give away medication. I personally dont believe again in medication or whatever.

[Ammex]

IDK what all that means honestly. If I am standing up in the kitchen or typing on a computer I have zero chance of sleep. If I lie in bed I fall back asleep for some period of time most of the time. Even if the sleep is broken or of poor quality it's better than nothing. Did it today woke up at 3:15, became concerned I was up too early and that I would not fall back asleep. Did not get up and check the phone. Rolled over and tried to relax. IDK when but I fell back asleep and slept till 7 AM.

So what would have happened if I got up and started paying bills on the comp?

Probably nothing great for a whole lot of reasons that wouldn't have much to do with the time of day, I.e. The blue light from the screen, any mental exertion from trying to think about anything complex, stress, etc. But that doesn't mean through human history is wasn't common to have fragmented sleep. I remember a study conducted that compared people sleeping in small intervals to ones sleeping 8 hours at night. The interval group needed much less sleep to achieve the same level of recovery and performance. Without going and digging up the research, I also recall that humans used to sleep basically when it got dark and not sleep through in 1 session. Think about it, before there was easy access to artificial light, everyone isn't sleeping 11-12 hours a night while it's dark. There are countries still where fragmented sleep is common, sleeping during the hottest part of the day and less at night.

It's all about achieving quality R.E.M. Sleep. If you're just rolling around I don't agree that you're better off. And the best sleep you get is in the earlier stages and the quality declines throughout the night. I'm not saying 6 hours is greater than 8 hours, I'm saying you shouldn't fight your body if you are just someone who sleeps in fragmented times. 4 hours asleep, 1-2 awake, 4 hours of sleep again. Just make sure you do something that isn't super stimulating, like read.

I've personally been encouraged to embrace that by medical professionals. I prefer to sleep right through from a convenience perspective, but 4 good hours, 2 awake, and 4 good hours feels way way better than 8 really crappy hours. My Fitbit has even shown better quality sleep when I go back to bed after waking up.

Could try it for a bit. Got nothing to lose. It just sucks because it doesn't fit with modern+busy lifestyles.

[Kreytus]

This is a terrible approach if you think there is ACTUALLY something else wrong. But, especially now, like 99% of people with sleep issues have them because of lifestyle.

When you've been trying to solve it for 13 years, gone to every specialist you can think of and no one has any ideas, not sure what else there is to try at this point lol.

[EjnarKolinkar]

Could try it for a bit. Got nothing to lose. It just sucks because it doesn't fit with modern+busy lifestyles.

Hey if it's working for you, it is. It's hard to argue any of it if a person is well rested.

It's like all the pro and con views on napping.

[EjnarKolinkar]

500+ pound guy that trains @ my gym hitting that steel again today as usual.

He always inspires me to do my best on any given day.

[Serpentarius]

500+ pound guy that trains @ my gym hitting that steel again today as usual.

He always inspires me to do my best on any given day.

i only hang around fatter people so i am the most attractive out of the bunch

[EjnarKolinkar]

Ah well haven't posted a vid in a while I don't think I posted this one here yet.

[EjnarKolinkar]

TY, somebody has to OP. At least now I have it out of the way can just just post treadmill gifs for the next 20 LF chats.

[bestellenpreis]

People don't know how to get past even the tiniest of obstacles since they feel like getting hit by a train all because they had it so easy until that moment and took everything from food to luxuries for granted.

[gomil]

i dont believe in taking anything, i feel if you have to suffer, its what you are meant to deal with and what life gave you, personal conviction. the abundance of kids of supposedly have ADD/HD when they just need good parenting. I know people like to think their life is awful when they are just bored too,

Yeah, for me it's a combination of something in my head constantly reminding me of some of my failures, anxiety ad boredom. It sucks having to wake up sometimes and feel like I failed on occasions I could have done better in and end up having no mental drive to do anything.

Over the past few months or so however, I've stopped beating myself over it and try to just do the small things and stay on schedule w.r.t. my everyday schedule regarding work and hobbies so as to not fall behind. Even quality of sleep has improved slightly although it's still not great. Constantly remind myself that things could always be worse.

It's a vicious cycle having a low morale, not doing anything and feeling worse and the whole thing repeating.

[Ammex]

Thank god no woman could ever love Serp because they would be marching in anti-vaxxer protests while their kids spread deadly and 100% preventable diseases.