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  1. #4381
    Registered User cerigitts's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MuzzieChik786 View Post
    You're a crossfitter too?!?!??! Woah! *sisfist*

    Been doing it 3+ years. I'm thinking about doing something else soon though. Just don't know what.
    Technically I'm not, I wanted to start, went to a box local to me and signed up, but my knee is too bad with that PCL tear to do **** all.

    So gonna rehab and take is slow for the remainder of the year & try to build strength up more & endurance / fitness without the crazy high impact ****.
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  2. #4382
    Sam the Eagle Znik's Avatar
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    I only lose strength if I cut for more than 4-8 weeks (depends on deficit size) .
    My story going from obese to fit while battling daily chronic headaches:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=155566013&p=1104734533#post1104734533

    Summer shred 2015. -final updated posted Sept. 19.
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=167135911
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  3. #4383
    Serpentarius's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by spradish View Post
    You never stated that. I've never run into an untrained novice who complained about getting weaker on a sensible deficit, fat or not.
    Since i started over and stalled fast (noob gains finished rapidly) they stay at the same although im in a big deficit, id imagine the same goes for anyone, they just more or less reach the limit of what their brain is capable of moving because they never built muscle.
    There is always someone less fortunate, with real hunger, with real adversity, who made something of themselves. What is your excuse?
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  4. #4384
    🅾🅼🅴🅶🅰 🆆🅴🅰🅿🅾🅽 EjnarKolinkar's Avatar
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    TL;DR of the week part duex

    Dieting make you learn to keep priorities straight. I've seen a lot of folks, inexperienced, who are already running on the edge of their recovery add dieting and stall a bit or regress slightly. It's driven IMO by the more is better training approach instead of using a true strength increase paradigm (actual numbers in log book driving programming). Dieting doesn't do much to strength for average people, but it eats up some amount of recovery. Progress in strength is depended on two basic factors at it's simplest. If things aren't moving either we aren't providing the stimulus for the body to change, or the body isn't changing due primarily to recovery. I also think there is just a certain amount of experience at play. If you ever diet and get stronger at anything, you can build on that success mentally.

    Some people have a deeper recovery pool, or are more intuitive or experienced about training. Some people have the will to keep going until they get sick or snap. Others just never decide the diet can't have any plates. But too many people blame the diet without looking at some slippage as an indicator their programming is is close to the point of overreaching, or past it. They just have to do 5x5 instead of 4x5 or 3x5. Or they decide they have to stay strong at 26 sets of arms and not rows and presses when they don't have the experience to need or recover from it all. People have to remember advanced lifters don't have the body response to a given volume that newer lifters do. They earned it over a long period of time. It doesn't necessarily damage or tax them as much. So they have provided themselves less to recover from, because their bodies work better under a load that would cripple a lot of people.

    It's why you see the generic response to cut volume over intensity so often from experienced lifters responding to noobs when dieting. It's why stronglifts suggest reducing volume to keep strength moving when you stall on the initial program. It's general advice to value intensity over volume, and progress over perfection. Advanced lifters already probably know themselves well enough to make what adjustments they need, or at least they should.

    If I start dieting and all their numbers slip I either decided it was going to happen and enabled it. Or it's indicating my programming was already too close to the tipping point and dieting was the straw that broke the camels back. I'm also not a world class athlete, and I do not have elite strength levels. So I know it's possible for me to get stronger at something dieting. I let that possibility be my guide most of the time, and try not to get in my own way making everything important.

    Plus you know bottom line as I am not an elite athlete who gets paid to do this, if I foul it up, and lose a little strength, who cares? I'll try to get stronger, I'll use my head. When it comes down to it I serve one master cutting fat. It's too easy to find reasons not to diet. So I know at the basic level, the cutting will win any arguments at this point in things., as long as I'm healthy.
    The most important aspect of weight training; whether for the athlete, bodybuilder, or average person is to better ones health and ability without injury. - Bill Pearl

    Ironwill2008 is surely doing RDL's and eating eggs and bacon somewhere right now.
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  5. #4385
    c++ positive krete77's Avatar
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    back to uni, started last week. 6 classes away from graduation in comp sci. things going well, exercise has been lacking but gonna pick up again. (story of my life the last couple years) lol

    hows everyone doing
    www.grazethesky.com
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  6. #4386
    Starvation Mode GO! NitrogenWidget's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Znik View Post
    I only lose strength if I cut for more than 4-8 weeks (depends on deficit size) .
    <1200 cals PSMF style after a few weeks = LadyJ lifts more than me guaranteed.
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  7. #4387
    Starvation Mode GO! NitrogenWidget's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by krete77 View Post
    back to uni, started last week. 6 classes away from graduation in comp sci. things going well, exercise has been lacking but gonna pick up again. (story of my life the last couple years) lol

    hows everyone doing
    Story of my life also.
    Lift hard
    Diet hard
    get svelt
    stop lifting
    consume mass quantities.
    eventually hit a saturation point and get chubby again.

    repeat.

    This time around i'm going to keep lifting after I drop the fat and stay off the see-food diet.

    Of course I say that every time but last time i did actually keep lifting while stuffing my pie-hole.

    Baby-steps.
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  8. #4388
    Registered User MuzzieChik786's Avatar
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    Nitro:



    Huehue.
    Thus let me live, unseen, unknown;
    Thus unlamented let me die;
    Steal from the world, and not a stone
    Tell where I lie.

    2/17/15 - Dunk Tank Results: 15% bf (Omron said 18.6%) - 123.4 lbs LBM
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  9. #4389
    Registered User moore93's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Serpentarius View Post
    Since i started over and stalled fast (noob gains finished rapidly) they stay at the same although im in a big deficit, id imagine the same goes for anyone, they just more or less reach the limit of what their brain is capable of moving because they never built muscle.
    Yeah? Well how come I can eat 800 cals a day and add 5lbs to my bench every workout? What do you say about that Serp?































































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  10. #4390
    Starvation Mode GO! NitrogenWidget's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MuzzieChik786 View Post
    Nitro:



    Huehue.
    Walked 4 miles on my lunch in one hr.
    Blister on middle toe.
    Hip flexor pain.
    Glute pain.
    I feel as old as that guy.

    There will be no more cardio this day.
    Last edited by NitrogenWidget; 09-15-2016 at 02:54 PM.
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  11. #4391
    🅾🅼🅴🅶🅰 🆆🅴🅰🅿🅾🅽 EjnarKolinkar's Avatar
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    Thats a dope hat in the pics though. Finally getting my new palm fedoras, they shipped yesterday.

    2.5 hours yardio. 1 hour periodontal cleaning. 3 min shadow boxing.
    The most important aspect of weight training; whether for the athlete, bodybuilder, or average person is to better ones health and ability without injury. - Bill Pearl

    Ironwill2008 is surely doing RDL's and eating eggs and bacon somewhere right now.
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  12. #4392
    Serpentarius's Avatar
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    Sitting in at 19% bf currently, 49 lbs, 7 foot 3, i put this collection of photos meticulously through hours of software editing and state of the art camera technology (as you can tell by the clarity). No i did not use microsoft paint or an iphone 3gs from 2011 contrary to popular belief.

    Looking THIN, EMACIATED, STARVING. Im gonna keep you guys updated with pics and vid clips of my descension into third world starving child physique. ILL SHOW YOU WHAT I GOT!

    Either going to start reverse dieting in two days or cut for two more weeks and go straight to maintenance.


    edit: after a year of not lifting, 2.5 months of lifting in a deficit
    Attached Images
    Last edited by Serpentarius; 09-15-2016 at 11:23 PM.
    There is always someone less fortunate, with real hunger, with real adversity, who made something of themselves. What is your excuse?
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  13. #4393
    Sam the Eagle Znik's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NitrogenWidget View Post
    <1200 cals PSMF style after a few weeks = LadyJ lifts more than me guaranteed.
    I didn't lose much strength until the weeks after I finished my PSMF.

    Originally Posted by Serpentarius View Post
    Sitting in at 19% bf currently, 49 lbs, 7 foot 3, i put this collection of photos meticulously through hours of software editing and state of the art camera technology (as you can tell by the clarity). No i did not use microsoft paint or an iphone 3gs from 2011 contrary to popular belief.
    I just want to dig into those lovehandles and fall into the Serpentarius blissfulness of magical wonders.
    My story going from obese to fit while battling daily chronic headaches:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=155566013&p=1104734533#post1104734533

    Summer shred 2015. -final updated posted Sept. 19.
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=167135911
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  14. #4394
    Registered User gomil's Avatar
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    How many calories do you guys usually eat while cutting and what's your TDEE?

    Originally Posted by Serpentarius View Post
    edit: after a year of not lifting, 2.5 months of lifting in a deficit
    How much of your strength did you gain after coming back and pics are flexed?
    Calories In, Calories Out.
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  15. #4395
    Sam the Eagle Znik's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gomil View Post
    How many calories do you guys usually eat while cutting and what's your TDEE?
    Between 1200 and 2500 depending on how fast I want to cut.

    TDEE is 3000-4000 depending on if I am cutting, maintaining or bulking and how fat I am.
    My story going from obese to fit while battling daily chronic headaches:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=155566013&p=1104734533#post1104734533

    Summer shred 2015. -final updated posted Sept. 19.
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=167135911
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  16. #4396
    Registered User cerigitts's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Serpentarius View Post
    Sitting in at 19% bf currently, 49 lbs, 7 foot 3, i put this collection of photos meticulously through hours of software editing and state of the art camera technology (as you can tell by the clarity). No i did not use microsoft paint or an iphone 3gs from 2011 contrary to popular belief.

    Looking THIN, EMACIATED, STARVING. Im gonna keep you guys updated with pics and vid clips of my descension into third world starving child physique. ILL SHOW YOU WHAT I GOT!

    Either going to start reverse dieting in two days or cut for two more weeks and go straight to maintenance.


    edit: after a year of not lifting, 2.5 months of lifting in a deficit
    Maaaan !! If that's 19% then i'm gonna be a 150lb manlet by the time i'm done.

    Originally Posted by gomil View Post
    How many calories do you guys usually eat while cutting and what's your TDEE?
    TDEE is normally around 2,500 & depending on how aggressive I want to cut, anywhere between 1,000 & 2,000 calories per day.
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  17. #4397
    Sam the Eagle Znik's Avatar
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    This guy is pretty awesome, bodybuilder with cerebral palsy Steve Alexy.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vJxguaBd6c

    The amount of dedication to lift and even more so to strike the bodybuilding poses must be insane.
    My story going from obese to fit while battling daily chronic headaches:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=155566013&p=1104734533#post1104734533

    Summer shred 2015. -final updated posted Sept. 19.
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=167135911
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  18. #4398
    Registered User cerigitts's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Znik View Post
    This guy is pretty awesome, bodybuilder with cerebral palsy Steve Alexy.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vJxguaBd6c

    The amount of dedication to lift and even more so to strike the bodybuilding poses must be insane.
    Seen this on FB the other day, truly inspirational. Puts things into perspective when you see some of the chit people come up with for not achieving goals.
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  19. #4399
    Registered User gomil's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Znik View Post
    TDEE is 3000-4000 depending on if I am cutting, maintaining or bulking and how fat I am.
    Must be them manmore/viking genes.

    Originally Posted by cerigitts View Post
    TDEE is normally around 2,500 & depending on how aggressive I want to cut, anywhere between 1,000 & 2,000 calories per day.
    Haven't used MFP in over 6 months but according to my estimations, I'm maintaining at around 2200 even though sedentary for most of the day; traveling right now and just been lazy to weigh EVERYTHING except dangerous stuff like peanuts and cheese. Been eating mostly the same stuff everyday for a while though so tracking hasn't been too difficult.

    I'm guessing being obese at some point in life actually causes abnormally high bmr/rmr ('fast metabolism' lol) and another reason might be TEF; does being in a hot and humid environment have any effect on TDEE?
    Calories In, Calories Out.
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    Originally Posted by gomil View Post
    I'm guessing being obese at some point in life actually causes abnormally high bmr/rmr ('fast metabolism' lol) and another reason might be TEF; does being in a hot and humid environment have any effect on TDEE?
    Nope, activity and size affects metabolism, being ex-obese or whatever has no role in it.

    TEF only plays a role if you have a low protein/high fat diet.

    Hot/cold climate plays very little role in EE, even when active unless it's an extreme environment.
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    Originally Posted by Znik View Post
    Nope, activity and size affects metabolism, being ex-obese or whatever has no role in it.
    Not sure about source but read that higher caloric intake causes more T4 to T3 conversion. Size makes sense. What's the voodoo going on then in the bodies of folks who are SEDENTARY but have to eat a LOT more to gain weight (esp. ex fatties); thoughts?
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    Originally Posted by gomil View Post
    Not sure about source but read that higher caloric intake causes more T4 to T3 conversion. Size makes sense. What's the voodoo going on then in the bodies of folks who are SEDENTARY but have to eat a LOT more to gain weight (esp. ex fatties); thoughts?
    They aren't really sedentary, eat less than they think, suffer from Hyperthyroidism, or have insanely high NEAT.

    Eating in a calorie surplus kicks in a overfeeding metabolic adaption so NEAT,TEF (tiny amount), etc. increases and skeletal muscle efficiency decreases to increase TDEE, similar to the way they change when in a deficit to preserve energy.

    Overfeeding response eventually breaks down though, hence we get fat.

    In basic our RMR/BMR are fairly similar across the board when you compensate for lifestyle factors.
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    Originally Posted by gomil View Post
    How many calories do you guys usually eat while cutting and what's your TDEE?
    1800-1900 right now. TDEE around 2250-2450 depending on how much cardio I do. I tend to do more when not cutting.
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    Originally Posted by Znik View Post
    Between 1200 and 2500 depending on how fast I want to cut.

    TDEE is 3000-4000 depending on if I am cutting, maintaining or bulking and how fat I am.
    getting under 1200 cals and still pooping solid is tough.
    What kind of foods are you getting at roughly 1200 cals?

    I can pull 150G's of prot at just under 1200 cals from
    Chicken
    Fish oil
    fibrous veggies.
    greek yogurt
    Whey powder
    Blueberries will put me at 1200.

    I can go lower but need to cut down on veggies and greek yogurt.
    But according to PSMF veggies don't count? just prot/fat/carb cals?
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    Originally Posted by Serpentarius View Post
    Sitting in at 19% bf currently, 49 lbs, 7 foot 3, i put this collection of photos meticulously through hours of software editing and state of the art camera technology (as you can tell by the clarity). No i did not use microsoft paint or an iphone 3gs from 2011 contrary to popular belief.

    Looking THIN, EMACIATED, STARVING. Im gonna keep you guys updated with pics and vid clips of my descension into third world starving child physique. ILL SHOW YOU WHAT I GOT!

    Either going to start reverse dieting in two days or cut for two more weeks and go straight to maintenance.


    edit: after a year of not lifting, 2.5 months of lifting in a deficit
    With the bolded - were you just being cheeky?

    You're not at 19%. Y U Frauding?

    Uncool.

    Looking anorexic. When will you lift?
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    Originally Posted by NitrogenWidget View Post
    getting under 1200 cals and still pooping solid is tough.
    What kind of foods are you getting at roughly 1200 cals?
    Chicken, lean pork/beef and veggies and a protein bar if I am feeling generous.

    Originally Posted by MuzzieChik786 View Post
    Looking anorexic. When will you lift?
    That must hurt so bad, even I felt a tear dropping.

    You cutting again Muzzie ? It always brings out your evil side.
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    Originally Posted by Znik View Post
    Chicken, lean pork/beef and veggies and a protein bar if I am feeling generous.



    That must hurt so bad, even I felt a tear dropping.

    You cutting again Muzzie ? It always brings out your evil side.
    Lol.. Sorry Serp.. I was just being cheeky - maybe went too far that time. I'm secretly jealous is what it is.

    And yea I am. I've got all sorts of odd tremours going on and chit. And I'm vexed for some odd reason that I don't know about. And talking to the shrink friend did jack all.

    I'm going through another phase of mental and emotional stress (started about a week ago). I went to the wrong house the other day. I got lost going to the gym. Extreme confusion and loss of direction.

    But enough about me.

    How's your migraines ZNIK? Are they decreasing with the onset of old age? :P
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    Originally Posted by MuzzieChik786 View Post
    Lol.. Sorry Serp.. I was just being cheeky - maybe went too far that time. I'm secretly jealous is what it is.

    And yea I am. I've got all sorts of odd tremours going on and chit. And I'm vexed for some odd reason that I don't know about. And talking to the shrink friend did jack all.

    I'm going through another phase of mental and emotional stress. I went to the wrong house the other day. I got lost going to the gym. Extreme confusion and loss of direction.

    But enough about me.

    How's your migraines ZNIK? Are they decreasing with the onset of old age? :P
    When Serp is involved you can never go too far.

    Sounds like you got some nasty stuff going on, been to the Doc for full health check ? (hormones,thyroid,vitamins,minerals (iron especially) etc.)

    I wish they would decrease with age, no luck there. Been having a good streak lately with not so many bad days so that's good, downside I know a bad period is coming just don't know when it strikes.

    eta: the only thing I've noticed with getting older is the crazy growth spurt nose and ear hair have gotten, I am generally not a hairy guy (don't even have a chest patch) but nose/ear hairs are suddenly growing like crazy. It's like wtf is going on.
    Last edited by Znik; 09-16-2016 at 09:41 AM.
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    Originally Posted by NitrogenWidget View Post
    getting under 1200 cals and still pooping solid is tough.
    I'd have to eat the whole 1200 in veggies I think.

    Originally Posted by gomil View Post
    What's the voodoo going on then in the bodies of folks who are SEDENTARY but have to eat a LOT more to gain weight (esp. ex fatties); thoughts?
    People like to say things on the internet? Lots of people track poorly. Under reporting of intake is very common among dieters. Over reporting mass gain macros sounds cool. People gain to fast and get fat, make thread 2 months later, "Ooops guys I just goofed"

    Most of it goes to NEAT, and if someone was dieting very hard at the end and holding some water, and then goes up to realistic surplus, or a bit beyond which wont show up for a while it can look big on paper.
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    I know that for me the difference between rapid fat loss and not losing at all is forcing myself to move - consciously increasing NEAT. If I have the motivation to run it melts off, but right now I don't. So I make sure I stand instead of sit when I can, walk around a bit more, etc. NEAT is a powerful thing. I don't have a "high metabolism", so I can see clearly how someone who is naturally fidgety can have a TDEE several hundred calories higher than me.

    I also cut too frequently, so I think my body naturally preserves more energy all the time. Some day I should focus hard on very very slowly increasing calories long term...
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