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  1. #31
    Registered User ajdahlheimer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    But I am finding that I am enjoying the break away from heavy training for a while. I have been doing more "bodybuilding" type stuff....which I have never really done since my 20's. Lighter weights, more sets, more exercises.
    I would be interested in hearing what types of exercises, weight amounts, and # of reps--this "bodybuilding" type stuff consisted of, ID. I've got 3 more weeks of doing heavy stuff, but was planning on adopting a lower weight/higher rep workout to enhance my cut and just change things up/give shoulders/elbows a break from heavy stuff. Was also going to ping Highiso for some pointers........
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  2. #32
    AWOL highiso's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ajdahlheimer View Post
    I would be interested in hearing what types of exercises, weight amounts, and # of reps--this "bodybuilding" type stuff consisted of, ID. I've got 3 more weeks of doing heavy stuff, but was planning on adopting a lower weight/higher rep workout to enhance my cut and just change things up/give shoulders/elbows a break from heavy stuff. Was also going to ping Highiso for some pointers........
    Ping away man. I've been doing 10-16+ reps every set for at least 6 months now and it is working, maybe better than any other year of training so far.

    My lowest weight last year was 185 @ about 8% BF. Visually at the mid 190s currently I'm looking like I've added some size since last summer. I won't know definitively until I get to 190 or just under. I feel like I've made some progress though, each year is a surprise when you're done stripping the fat.

    I can tell you I've never had a peak looking like that before... Oh and a new bicep vein is making its first appearance.



    Last summer @ 185...

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  3. #33
    Team General Mills Vytis's Avatar
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    Excellent highiso!

    ID, you're looking fantastic as well. Those abs!
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  4. #34
    Registered User ajdahlheimer's Avatar
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    Cool. I'll PM you, Highiso.
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  5. #35
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ajdahlheimer View Post
    I would be interested in hearing what types of exercises, weight amounts, and # of reps--this "bodybuilding" type stuff consisted of, ID. I've got 3 more weeks of doing heavy stuff, but was planning on adopting a lower weight/higher rep workout to enhance my cut and just change things up/give shoulders/elbows a break from heavy stuff. Was also going to ping Highiso for some pointers........
    Dont get me wrong, I still believe that the key to natural growth (or at least doing the most of your training with "normal" hormone profiles) is to train with heavy weight and compound exercises. If you look to the pre-steriod era bodybuilders of the 40's and 50's they were all strong as hell too. None of this silly 'pump' chasing garbage as the foundation of your training. Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is a very small part of muscular growth....many say 10% or less. Hell.... I almost never get "pumped" in my normal workouts.

    But....for me at this point...chasing some of that sarcoplasmic growth may be my only avenue left untapped. So I may actually see progress from it. Since I have never done volume type work....it may benefit me to do so....but I dont for a minute think that I could have developed to the point where I am doing these type workouts.

    That said, I wont ignore the effect REAL tension causes on muscular growth...but I am not focusing solely on it. I think really one good set is enough for me to maintain that aspect and then I go to lighter move volume work.

    I'll use my leg day as an example.

    Squats

    Warmup
    135x5
    225x5
    315x5
    405x3

    Working set (only 1)
    495x3-5 (depending on what I have in the tank )


    THEN>>>>>>>>>I move to light training.

    5-6 sets of leg press in the 12-13 range
    3-4 sets of another leg machine like hack squats in 10-12

    3 sets of leg extensions in 12-15

    4-5 sets of leg curls in the 12 rep range.


    While that may seem only slightly above normal for most....it is WAY more work than I normally do. Normally I would just do 2 more working sets on squats with heavy weight in the 3-5 rep range AND that would be it. Maybe...maybe do 2 sets of leg ext after.

    As I said....I firmly believe, that moving heavier and heavier weights (in large compound exercises) is the key to continued natural growth. You then round off your training with higher rep work. (but it only should represent a small portion with most effort focused on moving maximal weights in the 3-8 rep range...even up to 10-12 at times)

    Pump type training builds good looking muscles that are very conditional upon glycogen loading. People who train like this, shrink and swell very easily. If they take a month off, you can actually see them shrink. The muscle "growth" is not "real" but a temporary condition caused by increased fluid / glycogen uptake. This type of muscle also is not nearly as "dense" looking.

    Just my opinions....but gathered by looking back to the past for answers before drugs dominated training styles.
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  6. #36
    AWOL highiso's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    Dont get me wrong, I still believe that the key to natural growth (or at least doing the most of your training with "normal" hormone profiles) is to train with heavy weight and compound exercises. If you look to the pre-steriod era bodybuilders of the 40's and 50's they were all strong as hell too. None of this silly 'pump' chasing garbage as the foundation of your training. Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is a very small part of muscular growth....many say 10% or less. Hell.... I almost never get "pumped" in my normal workouts.

    But....for me at this point...chasing some of that sarcoplasmic growth may be my only avenue left untapped. So I may actually see progress from it. Since I have never done volume type work....it may benefit me to do so....but I dont for a minute think that I could have developed to the point where I am doing these type workouts.

    That said, I wont ignore the effect REAL tension causes on muscular growth...but I am not focusing solely on it. I think really one good set is enough for me to maintain that aspect and then I go to lighter move volume work.

    I'll use my leg day as an example.

    Squats

    Warmup
    135x5
    225x5
    315x5
    405x3

    Working set (only 1)
    495x3-5 (depending on what I have in the tank )


    THEN>>>>>>>>>I move to light training.

    5-6 sets of leg press in the 12-13 range
    3-4 sets of another leg machine like hack squats in 10-12

    3 sets of leg extensions in 12-15

    4-5 sets of leg curls in the 12 rep range.


    While that may seem only slightly above normal for most....it is WAY more work than I normally do. Normally I would just do 2 more working sets on squats with heavy weight in the 3-5 rep range AND that would be it. Maybe...maybe do 2 sets of leg ext after.

    As I said....I firmly believe, that moving heavier and heavier weights (in large compound exercises) is the key to continued natural growth. You then round off your training with higher rep work. (but it only should represent a small portion with most effort focused on moving maximal weights in the 3-8 rep range...even up to 10-12 at times)

    Pump type training builds good looking muscles that are very conditional upon glycogen loading. People who train like this, shrink and swell very easily. If they take a month off, you can actually see them shrink. The muscle "growth" is not "real" but a temporary condition caused by increased fluid / glycogen uptake. This type of muscle also is not nearly as "dense" looking.

    Just my opinions....but gathered by looking back to the past for answers before drugs dominated training styles.
    I'm finding that I have to do a good amount of switching up year-to-year, to continue to respond. I will also say that manipulating carbs has a huge effect on my overall look day to day. I try to keep carbs around 150-170g during the week, Friday-Sunday I'm easily doubling that. I fill out on the weekends, almost always over-spilled, but look my best if I can balance.
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  7. #37
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by highiso View Post
    I'm finding that I have to do a good amount of switching up year-to-year, to continue to respond.
    I think at times guys get confused about the ideas of what it takes to stimulate your muscles in a changing manner. Just the act of ever increasing loads IS changing one's routine...even if you are sticking with the same basic exercises and similar rep ranges over time.

    Legs are a great example.... A guy can do nothing but squat and RDL's for his lower body year after year. Say he starts at 185lbx4 and after a few years of heavy training, struggling to push more and more weight and gain a rep here and there so he can than go up on weight again, he is up to 405x5. In my opinion that guy will be further along then the guy who jumps from DC training, to HST, to some other "fancy" program..etc. There is just no replacing the stimulation that comes from lifting heavy weights. Lifting weight that "feels heavy" because you are fatiguing yourself is not the same.

    Again...just my opinions....but I can count the number of programs I have been on in the past 5 years on one hand....even if I chop a few fingers off My workouts are by all means simple. I have historically done almost no isolation work...no direct shoulder work (except standing OHP), no shrugs..etc, very little direct arm work...Maybe 2 sets a week. I did the same things...over and over....always making my workouts "new" by doing it with more and more weight.

    Now...much of mine was because I trained at home and really did not have a choice. I did not have 50 different fancy machines to pick from.... I had a barbell and weights. Looking back, I think it was a blessing and taught me a lot about what it really is that challenges your muscles to grow.

    While there are many schools of thought on this one, if we realize that many of the Weider principles and higher volume "pump" type training came along with the use of PED's by pro athletes. These routines then got published over and over and people came to believe that this is what works. I think people are re-discovering what really stimulates natural growth (or at lest growth at natural hormone levels) with the increased popularity of natural bodybuilding. When you look at a guy like Layne Norton...he is every bit as successful a powerlifter as he is a bodybuilder. Some may argue he is not 100% natural...but that does not matter. We know 100% that he is not completely dependent upon anabolics for his physique. Looking at the way a lot of the top natural guys train....they are all crazy strong too. You dont see them doing any of this silly Kai Greene training. (which works for guys in those camps for sure...not taking anything away from them).

    Just a philosophical viewpoint, but I put my efforts to being strong....while feeding properly (just as important) and let hypertrophy take care of itself....
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  8. #38
    Registered User ajdahlheimer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    Lifting weight that "feels heavy" because you are fatiguing yourself is not the same.
    This is exactly what I thought I had to do to obtain more of that shredded look (in addition to dieting of course).


    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    Just a philosophical viewpoint, but I put my efforts to being strong....while feeding properly (just as important) and let hypertrophy take care of itself....
    In that case, I may just more stick with what I'm doing (i.e. what I've always done) and focus more on my diet. I DO need to give my shoulders a break on bench/OHP though. I thought incorporating my Swiss Bar would help with that--but I'm doing so much MORE weight with the thing now than when I got it 6 months ago--I'm kind of in the same boat I was with the traditional bar on those lifts.
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  9. #39
    AWOL highiso's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ajdahlheimer View Post
    This is exactly what I thought I had to do to obtain more of that shredded look (in addition to dieting of course).




    In that case, I may just more stick with what I'm doing (i.e. what I've always done) and focus more on my diet. I DO need to give my shoulders a break on bench/OHP though. I thought incorporating my Swiss Bar would help with that--but I'm doing so much MORE weight with the thing now than when I got it 6 months ago--I'm kind of in the same boat I was with the traditional bar on those lifts.
    So you're getting shredded, what is the goal? 6-8%? And what weight do you think that will put you at?
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  10. #40
    Registered User ajdahlheimer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by highiso View Post
    So you're getting shredded, what is the goal? 6-8%? And what weight do you think that will put you at?
    LOL, shredded for me, brah. I'm probably 25%+ BF now, so maybe 15%?
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  11. #41
    AWOL highiso's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ajdahlheimer View Post
    LOL, shredded for me, brah. I'm probably 25%+ BF now, so maybe 15%?
    Lol, I can't stand myself at 15%, which is funny cuz I didn't give a **** when I was 30% BF.
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  12. #42
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    In and subbed... love the Ov35 progress! I have a couple more weeks to cut before I up the cals and start a cautious bulk. I'm looking forward to seeing faster progress on my lifts again!
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  13. #43
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ajdahlheimer View Post
    This is exactly what I thought I had to do to obtain more of that shredded look (in addition to dieting of course).
    Nope....that is just diet. If anything as you shed down, lifting as heavy as you can is thought to be even more important. Listing to guys Like Layne Norton, they stress giving your muscles that tension in a deficit state.

    Or you can look at guys like Cmoore (who STAYS as shredded as they come). He is also a proponent of this idea. He will do whatever it takes to stay as heavy as he can even in a deficit state, including bringing rest periods out to 4-5 minutes between sets. That is the OPPOSITE of higher volume pump type training.
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  14. #44
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    Some of you guys, ID or aj, blow me away in terms of development, but I never go for pump and I'm fine with it.

    Yesterday's workout I did two exercises :

    Sumo Deads (13 sets including warmup. I do what I consider 3 warmup sets, 4 lighter than top weight sets working up to three sets at the top weight and three sets on the way back down. My goal is to hit 3x4 at the top weight and when I get that I move up 10 pounds)

    Glute Ham Raises (4 sets)

    I get good development (for me) out of that. I rest a long time (3-4 mins) in between sets on the sumo deads. I've gone up over 100 pounds in my top working sets of sumo deads in about a year doing this.

    I never do more than 3-4 different movements in a workout unless its back & shoulders. Often times on leg day I just hit 2 movements, but they are usually big movements that are hit hard.
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    But I am finding that I am enjoying the break away from heavy training for a while. I have been doing more "bodybuilding" type stuff....which I have never really done since my 20's. Lighter weights, more sets, more exercises.
    I'm actually doing the opposite of this and I'm not digging it all too much. I put aside my typical bb training for a strength training program. I'm only in the gym 3 days a week which is completely out of my comfort zone. I'm ****in starving eating everything and anything that's not nailed down and I'm getting fat.

    I ordered a new bathing suit about a month ago and it came in the mail today. I was so pissed I almost threw it in the trash!

    7 more weeks on this program...pray for me...

    You're all doing awesome! *thumbs up!*
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    Originally Posted by highiso View Post
    I gotta tell you though, that DD breakfast... I lived for that!
    I have to say that when I started lifting, my desire for donuts pretty much vanished. I don't find them at all appealing. Maybe I just don't come across good ones.

    Originally Posted by highiso View Post
    Ping away man. I've been doing 10-16+ reps every set for at least 6 months now and it is working, maybe better than any other year of training so far.

    My lowest weight last year was 185 @ about 8% BF. Visually at the mid 190s currently I'm looking like I've added some size since last summer. I won't know definitively until I get to 190 or just under. I feel like I've made some progress though, each year is a surprise when you're done stripping the fat.

    I can tell you I've never had a peak looking like that before... Oh and a new bicep vein is making its first appearance.

    SWEET! I may give that a try. It is certainly doing a great job for you!

    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    A guy can do nothing but squat and RDL's for his lower body year after year. Say he starts at 185lbx4 and after a few years of heavy training, struggling to push more and more weight and gain a rep here and there so he can than go up on weight again, he is up to 405x5
    Man, it took me a long time to even get to 185x5 and almost 3-1/2 years struggling and heavy (for me: it's all relative!) training to even hit 250x5 (just recently). Your example is killing me!

    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    I think people are re-discovering what really stimulates natural growth (or at least growth at natural hormone levels) with the increased popularity of natural bodybuilding. When you look at a guy like Layne Norton...he is every bit as successful a powerlifter as he is a bodybuilder. Some may argue he is not 100% natural...but that does not matter. We know 100% that he is not completely dependent upon anabolics for his physique.
    I'm a bit confused here. You seem to say that Layne Norton is natural (which I thought) but then "not 100% natural" and further "not completely dependent upon anabolics" - am I missing something?
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    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DocHoss View Post


    I'm a bit confused here. You seem to say that Layne Norton is natural (which I thought) but then "not 100% natural" and further "not completely dependent upon anabolics" - am I missing something?
    I am a big fan of Layne and his approach to things. I was directly addressing (preemptively) the group of 'haters' he has that make statements against him being 100% natural. I am saying it does not matter if he is or is not. Regardless of his status with regard to supplementation, it is pretty obvious that he has not built his physique totally dependent on 'supps', and the knowledge that he possesses is truly valuable. Whether he is or not.....I really dont care. When he talks....he gets my attention.
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    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kimm4 View Post
    I'm actually doing the opposite of this and I'm not digging it all too much. I put aside my typical bb training for a strength training program. I'm only in the gym 3 days a week which is completely out of my comfort zone. I'm ****in starving eating everything and anything that's not nailed down and I'm getting fat.

    I ordered a new bathing suit about a month ago and it came in the mail today. I was so pissed I almost threw it in the trash!

    7 more weeks on this program...pray for me...

    You're all doing awesome! *thumbs up!*
    Funny...how we all approach things. I actually made the best progress of my life on a 3 day program for a few years. As I am not trying to move as much weight lately, I find that I want to get in the gym a little more. Not so when I was beating the crap out of myslef!



    Ok...last pics for a while....I promise. I have posted only ab shots lately. As not to look like a fool obsessed with abs,...I snapped these at the gym....(after I tanned some ) The perspective is a little weird on the front one, but composition is really coming together. I am feeling like this whole wacky idea is all coming together of dropping some fat.

    I like the hammie cuts showing in the side view....who says deadlifts dont build hamstrings?..

    Not sure how much further I am going to take it...but I will just enjoy being "in shape" this summer.



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    420 Bench (paused) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2_Q-TLIB8
    545 Squat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qZZLnePFiI
    225 x 29 bench http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe68-LgD0jM
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  19. #49
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    Holy sh!t ID! Amazing....great work. Now can you see yourself on stage.
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    Innn

    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    I am a big fan of Layne and his approach to things. I was directly addressing (preemptively) the group of 'haters' he has that make statements against him being 100% natural. I am saying it does not matter if he is or is not. Regardless of his status with regard to supplementation, it is pretty obvious that he has not built his physique totally dependent on 'supps', and the knowledge that he possesses is truly valuable. Whether he is or not.....I really dont care. When he talks....he gets my attention.
    IN for some learnin'....
    Two quick things, one is that I emailed back & forth with Layne one evening when I was going through his website, he answered quickly and completely several times, I thought that showed (to me, anyway) that he's a class act. I wasn't asking any questions about his products (sales), only seeking knowledge, and he was very patient and cool about it.
    Second, I am following the Beyond Brawn (Stuart McRobert) method pretty much, and the big compound lifts are what he's all about. I threw in alot of cardio (for me) over the last several months and am finally seeing some results. Diet has helped too, of course.
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  21. #51
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Vytis View Post
    Holy sh!t ID! Amazing....great work. Now can you see yourself on stage.
    I dont feel it is out of the question that some day I could get up on a stage if that was my desire. But I still dont see myself as a "bodybuilder". Hard to explain....but I have my own standards that I try to reach and they really dont line up with "bodybuilding". In many ways I am looking for working out to be LESS intrusive into my life, and finding more balance for my family and pursuits other than lifting. While on the outside, it may seem as if I have gone one way....it is actually quite the opposite. I am the least strict and regimented as I have ever been since my return to the gym. In some ways, I feel like I am slacking.....and I'm actually OK with it for a while.

    Really....what is cool is I am realizing a few things that are not what I had thought in the past.

    1) Some of the parts of my physique that was least happy with, dont look nearly as bad now that I can see their shape better defined. (chest is a good example on me as is my waist). At least now you can see that I have really big obliques and they are well defined. I dont just look like a block from the front. While I dont have that sweeping thin narrow waist, what I do have looks like it belongs....even looks "strong" (although maybe not a bodybuilding ideal....I am not embarrassed by it nor do I feel I have to hide it)

    2) Getting to this point has not been nearly as "hard" as I thought. I think because I decided to make a lifestyle change and not just "diet". By not tracking and planning....my weight loss was a result of different dietary portions every day. I was not focused daily on them...and it was just a habit. Sure....I passed many times on things I would love to shove in my face. But I was no monk either. It took me longer this way, but dropping the pressure I have put on myself in the past of maximum performance, it was not that bad. It has shown me there is another way forward. Maybe not as rigid...and yes....maybe even one where I ease up a little on the expectations I set forth for myself.

    3) Kinda an offshoot of 2....I am seeing that lifting the heaviest **** possible is not the end all be all of my existence. I can by all means get satisfaction out of maintaining a level of fitness, even if it means I cant perform at my best. In small terms, this might mean I dont lift as heavy as often. In larger ones, it may mean I give up (mostly) heavy training all together.

    4) Again a offshoot of 3....I am finding that more I do the more I realize that I am happiest perusing my own goals. I think I started to feel a little pressure that people expect me to be a certain way. Not really you guys....but guys I workout with. I would have people all the time wanting me to deadlift or squat and bench with them. They wanted me to push them to lift more. They knew that they were lifting with me, it was not a light day. Of course, I feel into the trap because it made me feel good that people that I respected, held my strength and high regard and even "looked up" to me a little. (often guys much bigger than myself).

    Recently I have had no problem passing on working out with others and dont feel bad at all when the bar does not get loaded with more than 225 for a bench session.....or I skip squatting and only leg press..etc.


    Life is good. Never saying "never" but I dont see myself stepping "on stage" any time in the near future. Thanks for the support man!
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    I dont feel it is out of the question that some day I could get up on a stage if that was my desire. But I still dont see myself as a "bodybuilder". Hard to explain....but I have my own standards that I try to reach and they really dont line up with "bodybuilding". In many ways I am looking for working out to be LESS intrusive into my life, and finding more balance for my family and pursuits other than lifting. While on the outside, it may seem as if I have gone one way....it is actually quite the opposite. I am the least strict and regimented as I have ever been since my return to the gym. In some ways, I feel like I am slacking.....and I'm actually OK with it for a while.

    Really....what is cool is I am realizing a few things that are not what I had thought in the past.

    1) Some of the parts of my physique that was least happy with, dont look nearly as bad now that I can see their shape better defined. (chest is a good example on me as is my waist). At least now you can see that I have really big obliques and they are well defined. I dont just look like a block from the front. While I dont have that sweeping thin narrow waist, what I do have looks like it belongs....even looks "strong" (although maybe not a bodybuilding ideal....I am not embarrassed by it nor do I feel I have to hide it)

    2) Getting to this point has not been nearly as "hard" as I thought. I think because I decided to make a lifestyle change and not just "diet". By not tracking and planning....my weight loss was a result of different dietary portions every day. I was not focused daily on them...and it was just a habit. Sure....I passed many times on things I would love to shove in my face. But I was no monk either. It took me longer this way, but dropping the pressure I have put on myself in the past of maximum performance, it was not that bad. It has shown me there is another way forward. Maybe not as rigid...and yes....maybe even one where I ease up a little on the expectations I set forth for myself.

    3) Kinda an offshoot of 2....I am seeing that lifting the heaviest **** possible is not the end all be all of my existence. I can by all means get satisfaction out of maintaining a level of fitness, even if it means I cant perform at my best. In small terms, this might mean I dont lift as heavy as often. In larger ones, it may mean I give up (mostly) heavy training all together.

    4) Again a offshoot of 3....I am finding that more I do the more I realize that I am happiest perusing my own goals. I think I started to feel a little pressure that people expect me to be a certain way. Not really you guys....but guys I workout with. I would have people all the time wanting me to deadlift or squat and bench with them. They wanted me to push them to lift more. They knew that they were lifting with me, it was not a light day. Of course, I feel into the trap because it made me feel good that people that I respected, held my strength and high regard and even "looked up" to me a little. (often guys much bigger than myself).

    Recently I have had no problem passing on working out with others and dont feel bad at all when the bar does not get loaded with more than 225 for a bench session.....or I skip squatting and only leg press..etc.


    Life is good. Never saying "never" but I dont see myself stepping "on stage" any time in the near future. Thanks for the support man!
    So many good insights in this discussion; thanks for sharing
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    Registered User jdtemple's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    Ok...last pics for a while....I promise.
    I don't believe you.

    Looking fantastic, man. You set the bar high!
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    Late last year, I did some bulking. I started increasing my intake in October and kept increasing it through mid December. Then, I held that through Christmas. Weight peaked at 211 (I'm 5'10"). January 9th, I started cutting.

    So, on to the pics. All photos are taken cold, Friday morning, right after I roll out of bed. Same bathroom, same mirror.

    10/3/2014, 194.2 lbs


    1/9/2015, 211.4 lbs, time to cut


    3/15/2015, 197.0 lbs


    Right now, I'm at the point I always get to. This is where I hit at wall, and everything grinds to a halt. I have no energy during the day, cravings are through the roof, getting through a workout is a struggle, like I can't get enough rest between sets. I grind through them, though. I get the brain fog that you hear about, where it's hard to really focus on anything.

    I don't know if cutting just sucks, or I suck at cutting. This is about the point where I completely stall out. I soldier on for several more weeks, dropping more and more calories until I can't take it any more, then call it good enough and start raising calories again.

    The problem is that I have never been happy with a cut. I want more, but it's just not getting there. The 10/3/2014 photo is after the last cutting attempt I made. My intake was all the way down to 1300/day, which I know is excessive, but I stayed there around 9 weeks and was basically stuck at 194 lbs the entire time.

    I see progress in the photos, and I like what I'm seeing so far. Currently, I'm eating just under 1700 calories per day and progressing. I want to lean out more, but I don't know how much more I can tolerate.
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    Life is good. Never saying "never" but I dont see myself stepping "on stage" any time in the near future.
    But you're depriving the world of something awesome!

    Originally Posted by jdtemple View Post
    My intake was all the way down to 1300/day, which I know is excessive, but I stayed there around 9 weeks and was basically stuck at 194 lbs the entire time.
    How is that possible? Are you sure about that? Weighed your food etc.? I don't see how you could do that unless you were in a coma or your body somehow otherwise expended virtually no energy.

    Originally Posted by jdtemple View Post
    I see progress in the photos, and I like what I'm seeing so far. Currently, I'm eating just under 1700 calories per day and progressing. I want to lean out more, but I don't know how much more I can tolerate.
    Still seems low to me. My lowest was 2000 and I was still losing a pound a week down to 150 lb BW without any cardio. I liked it - not such a chore always having to shovel food in my mouth.
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    I dont feel it is out of the question that some day I could get up on a stage if that was my desire. But I still dont see myself as a "bodybuilder". Hard to explain....but I have my own standards that I try to reach and they really dont line up with "bodybuilding". In many ways I am looking for working out to be LESS intrusive into my life, and finding more balance for my family and pursuits other than lifting. While on the outside, it may seem as if I have gone one way....it is actually quite the opposite. I am the least strict and regimented as I have ever been since my return to the gym. In some ways, I feel like I am slacking.....and I'm actually OK with it for a while.

    Really....what is cool is I am realizing a few things that are not what I had thought in the past.

    1) Some of the parts of my physique that was least happy with, dont look nearly as bad now that I can see their shape better defined. (chest is a good example on me as is my waist). At least now you can see that I have really big obliques and they are well defined. I dont just look like a block from the front. While I dont have that sweeping thin narrow waist, what I do have looks like it belongs....even looks "strong" (although maybe not a bodybuilding ideal....I am not embarrassed by it nor do I feel I have to hide it)

    2) Getting to this point has not been nearly as "hard" as I thought. I think because I decided to make a lifestyle change and not just "diet". By not tracking and planning....my weight loss was a result of different dietary portions every day. I was not focused daily on them...and it was just a habit. Sure....I passed many times on things I would love to shove in my face. But I was no monk either. It took me longer this way, but dropping the pressure I have put on myself in the past of maximum performance, it was not that bad. It has shown me there is another way forward. Maybe not as rigid...and yes....maybe even one where I ease up a little on the expectations I set forth for myself.

    3) Kinda an offshoot of 2....I am seeing that lifting the heaviest **** possible is not the end all be all of my existence. I can by all means get satisfaction out of maintaining a level of fitness, even if it means I cant perform at my best. In small terms, this might mean I dont lift as heavy as often. In larger ones, it may mean I give up (mostly) heavy training all together.

    4) Again a offshoot of 3....I am finding that more I do the more I realize that I am happiest perusing my own goals. I think I started to feel a little pressure that people expect me to be a certain way. Not really you guys....but guys I workout with. I would have people all the time wanting me to deadlift or squat and bench with them. They wanted me to push them to lift more. They knew that they were lifting with me, it was not a light day. Of course, I feel into the trap because it made me feel good that people that I respected, held my strength and high regard and even "looked up" to me a little. (often guys much bigger than myself).

    Recently I have had no problem passing on working out with others and dont feel bad at all when the bar does not get loaded with more than 225 for a bench session.....or I skip squatting and only leg press..etc.


    Life is good. Never saying "never" but I dont see myself stepping "on stage" any time in the near future. Thanks for the support man!

    ID Been following you for a while in here. Always inspiring and full of Great information. That being said this is probably the best post I've seen from you! Brutally honest and hits home for me personally. Thanks for shooting it straight. On spread as usual.
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  27. #57
    Bizniz Kitty MissHolly's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by highiso View Post


    Last summer @ 185...


    You're doing it right, dayum.

    On spread.



    Everyone is looking/doing great in here...very motivating and one of my favorite threads. Repped with my measlies where I could.
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  28. #58
    Registered User ajdahlheimer's Avatar
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    Grilling counts as cardio if you flex enough during it, right?

    Was craving some protein!



    Down about 17 pounds in 6 weeks!
    Epic Beard Man crew

    My Journal: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=164109201&page=11
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  29. #59
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    Originally Posted by DocHoss View Post
    But you're depriving the world of something awesome!
    I'm with you there. ID talks about his blocky waist now and again, and all I see is a strong as hell core. ID, you could compete if you wanted to. I can understand why you wouldn't, though. I don't have any interest in it myself, even if I had the physique to do it.
    Originally Posted by DocHoss View Post
    How is that possible? Are you sure about that? Weighed your food etc.? I don't see how you could do that unless you were in a coma or your body somehow otherwise expended virtually no energy.
    Everything is weighed. I take one night a week off, Friday night. Out to dinner, beers, etc. Everything else is by the book. I end up at that point every time I take a stab at a cut. Very little intake, and no progress. Thankfully, I have been able to put on some muscle over the years, so it's not all for nothing.
    Originally Posted by DocHoss View Post
    Still seems low to me. My lowest was 2000 and I was still losing a pound a week down to 150 lb BW without any cardio. I liked it - not such a chore always having to shovel food in my mouth.
    I am a bottomless pit. I have to get in excess of 3000 calories per day intake before eating even starts to become a chore. That's 3000+ calories of whole, unprocessed food. Meat, vegetables, etc. No whey, no liquid calories of any kind. That's another thing that makes cutting suck so much for me. Eating a meal and still feeling hungry after I'm finished, knowing that's it until the next meal.
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    Well so far I have learned ID has gotten ripped and Hiso is a freak when it comes to getting shredded.

    Finally starting to see some ab development. Not bad for having a heart attack 3 years ago today. Going keep going see if I can get ripped.

    Resident smart arse and grammar fool....instagram: heartandfitness

    Open Heart Surgery on May 26, 2012. My life goal is to educate and inspire other heart patients. Medical study for new heart patient drugs to start in January 2013. If you have a family history of heart disease please get your blood tested ASAP and your kids. It could save their life.
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