There's a Ham in the Power Rack! Part II

[itsagoodday]

I pop in unexpectedly and this is what I find...Haha

Well, we don't have to discuss them all in the same sentence. Now THAT would be weird

[stingray72]

Well, we don't have to discuss them all in the same sentence. Now THAT would be weird

True

[thehobbes]

Lots of squat PRs in there. Congrats on that! Have to love how as your max goes up, weights that used to feel heavy are now a way lower percentage of 1RM and feel so much lighter.

Thanks, yeah that part is definitely awesome.

Wait, does it have to be one or the other? Can't this be an all-inclusive place where we discuss powerlifting, sex in weird places AND cats?

This can be all inclusive like a Mexican vacation where you can feast, drink, and possibly get taken hostage by bandits (srs I hear that's a thing down there now.)

I've been wondering if I should pick up some sleeves. Weirdly, squatting without anything on my knees was all I ever did before, and that was working fine for me. Now that I'm using wraps on the heavy stuff, my knees feel so nekkid with nothing on them when I'm warming up and I'm finding that I'm really hyper-aware of my knees now, which is driving me a little crazy.

Those blue Rehband one I have (and most everybody who does sleeves it seems) are EXTREMELY comfy. They're not overly tight or hard to get on, I recommend them. Should be aware of dem knees, they're important!

Also, BWx8 on pull ups @ 167?!?! That is like 8 more pull ups than I can do @ 167 lol. I bow before you, pull ups queen!!!

Lol!! I thank my t-rex arms and good upper body strength.

I pop in unexpectedly and this is what I find...Haha

Just another day in Ham's journal, heehee!

Well, we don't have to discuss them all in the same sentence. Now THAT would be weird

Well yeah, there have to be a FEW rules lol.

-----------------------------------------------------

Alright guise, I'm deloading starting TODAY! It's due and I'm very happy with what I managed to hit in squat, bench, DL, and OHP over the past 2 months. Elbow is a little angry so I'm arnica-ing the chit out of it. Today is a total rest day but I'll be doing some stretching, prehab, and easy cardio this week.

And I'll just leave this here cause hell yeah bench death and destruction of 1,000 angry suns!




I'm gonna see what I want to do for lifting when I get back at it next week and set some goals. I did look in to 5/3/1 but it is really light on the volume IMO, I think I'd be bored in about a week. Been doing well doing my own thing but it would be nice to have a bit of direction and setup, even if I have to hijack a program and half copy it half do my own thing. I really want to break through a 200lbs bench and surpass 3 plates on DL in my next couple of months training.

[gobbles23]

After the main lifts on 5/3/1 you can add as much volume as you want! I can send you the ebook if you'd like, it has a million variations! You can customize it as you please!!!

Nice squatting

[viccles007]

What an awesome place to deload Hammie. So much awesomeness achieved! I used to mod 5/3/1 for more volume. Agree with gobbles - ebook very helpful.

[Partyrocking]

I ran 5/3/1 a few years ago, and the volume was too low for me. Now there's Beyond 5/3/1 which has optional joker sets, first sets last, etc and so forth so you can add volume/autoregulate the routine.

[VO2Maxima]

5/3/1 seems to be one of those programs that people either love or hate. I've talked to some people who absolutely love it, swear by it. And I've talked to others who say it's the worst program they've tried and it's stupid. The Boring But Big variation seems to get a lot of love too.

[Echo814]

Yep! Tons of options with 5/3/1! I'm running the body building template right now and the volume is killing my right now on the accessories, but since adding the additional reps and different exercises I've notice an improvement

[thehobbes]

After the main lifts on 5/3/1 you can add as much volume as you want! I can send you the ebook if you'd like, it has a million variations! You can customize it as you please!!!

Nice squatting

Thanks Turkey. Kinda worried about the main lifts TBH. I was looking at this:



That looks ok, however, I always do way more than 3 working sets. For example whatever that last set is sometimes of 1+AMRAP I feel like I'd want to do that one a couple times and then back off the weight and do a couple extra less heavy sets with a few more reps. The way they have that set up would be fine for OHP since I don't do a ton of sets really, but bench and squat I like to do a lot more if I'm only doing these lifts once per week. As far as accessories I already know I would ignore whatever they're suggesting and just do whatever I wanted, thus it's not really even 5/3/1 anymore. Not that it matters I guess, I could still copy off of their rep scheme to an extent and then add more.

What an awesome place to deload Hammie. So much awesomeness achieved! I used to mod 5/3/1 for more volume. Agree with gobbles - ebook very helpful.

Thanks Vic, hmmm do you have examples in a bb.com log I can check out?

I ran 5/3/1 a few years ago, and the volume was too low for me. Now there's Beyond 5/3/1 which has optional joker sets, first sets last, etc and so forth so you can add volume/autoregulate the routine.

Yeah that Beyond one was what I eventually was considering. The other thing with the deload every 4 weeks seemed slow. So by "Work Set 4" they mean they know you're gonna add in like 3 more working sets yourself on THIS?

5/3/1 seems to be one of those programs that people either love or hate. I've talked to some people who absolutely love it, swear by it. And I've talked to others who say it's the worst program they've tried and it's stupid. The Boring But Big variation seems to get a lot of love too.

When I read the original 5/3/1 I was like WTF. The BBB thing of many x 10 seems very meh to me though. I like to go a bit heavier on some of my accessories, not just do a crapload of 10 rep sets, seems like a waste of time on rows and whatnot. I still plan on going to the commercial gym once a week to do that huge back accessory day, seems to help even out the pressing.

Yep! Tons of options with 5/3/1! I'm running the body building template right now and the volume is killing my right now on the accessories, but since adding the additional reps and different exercises I've notice an improvement

I'm gonna have to take a closer look at your set up in your log to see how you are running it. I may be getting confused with that chart thinking that's the only way.

[Partyrocking]

IIRC, the joker sets aren't necessarily one set.

So you can do a 1 joker set and if you get the number of reps you want/still have energy, add a second joker set. I haven't read the new book, so I can't say specifically how you're supposed to set it up, but the idea is that you can adjust the volume based on how you're actually doing that day, instead of the fixed number of sets that the original program had.

I'd also consider deloading every other month instead of every month, but that depends on how you handle the autoregulation. If you go nuts on the joker sets, you may need more frequent deloads.

ATM 5 work sets is plenty for me when it comes to main lifts. I do 6 for squats and it takes me almost an hour.

[itsagoodday]

When I took over my own programming at the beginning of the year (I previously had a friend doing it for me), I initially started building off a 3/5/1 template which is a version of 5/3/1 geared more for powerlifting. And then I veered pretty far away from it early on lol. But I kept some of the elements that I liked, such as the concept of going up in weight once or twice more for Jokers when I felt good, and also quite liked throwing most of my volume in after I went heavy with multiple First Set Last back-off sets. Was not really a huge fan of some of the other stuff though. But it was a good place to start.

[stingray72]

When I took over my own programming at the beginning of the year (I previously had a friend doing it for me), I initially started building off a 3/5/1 template which is a version of 5/3/1 geared more for powerlifting. And then I veered pretty far away from it early on lol. But I kept some of the elements that I liked, such as the concept of going up in weight once or twice more for Jokers when I felt good, and also quite liked throwing most of my volume in after I went heavy with multiple First Set Last back-off sets. Was not really a huge fan of some of the other stuff though. But it was a good place to start.

Just follow your bodies que's its the smart thing to do and it sounds like thats what you're doing.

[thehobbes]

IIRC, the joker sets aren't necessarily one set.

So you can do a 1 joker set and if you get the number of reps you want/still have energy, add a second joker set. I haven't read the new book, so I can't say specifically how you're supposed to set it up, but the idea is that you can adjust the volume based on how you're actually doing that day, instead of the fixed number of sets that the original program had.

Oh I see, so you can tack on an extra 3 sets if you're having a good day, I like that. I kinda want to follow some kind of system because right now it's either work up heavy and hit a bunch of singles/doubles on a good day, or if not such a good day do a bunch of heavy-ish 3-5 reps at a little bit lower wt. Would be nice to have things planned out so I can work towards a goal of I wanna hit X on my squat by this time, and then follow the correct path to make it happen.

I'd also consider deloading every other month instead of every month, but that depends on how you handle the autoregulation. If you go nuts on the joker sets, you may need more frequent deloads.

Meh, not crazy about that. Right now I deload like every 8 weeks. It'd suck if I only got to do 3 heavy workouts of (bench/squat/DL/OHP) and then had to deload right away. I'd have to be doing everything 2x a week at least.

ATM 5 work sets is plenty for me when it comes to main lifts. I do 6 for squats and it takes me almost an hour.

If I'm doing 3-5 rep range then yeah after my lead up sets that's fine for me too. I'm running into when I do singles/doubles I can keep going for a long while doing those. My compounds take me a long time as well, long rests as needed and then usually in home gym so I can hog the rack all day if I want.

When I took over my own programming at the beginning of the year (I previously had a friend doing it for me), I initially started building off a 3/5/1 template which is a version of 5/3/1 geared more for powerlifting. And then I veered pretty far away from it early on lol. But I kept some of the elements that I liked, such as the concept of going up in weight once or twice more for Jokers when I felt good, and also quite liked throwing most of my volume in after I went heavy with multiple First Set Last back-off sets. Was not really a huge fan of some of the other stuff though. But it was a good place to start.

Now that sounds right up my alley. There IS a pattern I'm sure that I kinda naturally followed without me planning for it on my lifts the past 2 months. I think I need to figure out where my percentages were when I was doing that and see if I can kinda plug that in to a 5/3/1 type set up, it may be closer than I think already. As far as doing something for 5 reps I never really did sets where yeah I can hit about 5 reps, it was more of a build up/warm up thing. Say for squats if I decided I wanted to "work" at 235 that day I would do just enough to pyramid up in warmups, then try to hit 3-5 reps on the 235 and keep going. But then sometimes that'd be easier than anticipated so I'd bump up the wt a little more and lower reps. So yeah, I just kinda did whatever the hell I wanted which is probably not the best way to go.

Also want to make sure I'm getting in that big Back Day every week and some bonus pull ups/rows mixed in through the week. If I don't I feel like my press work is gonna run rampant and mess me up.

Just follow your bodies que's its the smart thing to do and it sounds like thats what you're doing.

Me or itsagoodday? I feel like that's what I've been doing but I also feel like I may be going about it in a stupid way, dunno.

[stingray72]

Oh I see, so you can tack on an extra 3 sets if you're having a good day, I like that. I kinda want to follow some kind of system because right now it's either work up heavy and hit a bunch of singles/doubles on a good day, or if not such a good day do a bunch of heavy-ish 3-5 reps at a little bit lower wt. Would be nice to have things planned out so I can work towards a goal of I wanna hit X on my squat by this time, and then follow the correct path to make it happen.

Meh, not crazy about that. Right now I deload like every 8 weeks. It'd suck if I only got to do 3 heavy workouts of (bench/squat/DL/OHP) and then had to deload right away. I'd have to be doing everything 2x a week at least.

If I'm doing 3-5 rep range then yeah after my lead up sets that's fine for me too. I'm running into when I do singles/doubles I can keep going for a long while doing those. My compounds take me a long time as well, long rests as needed and then usually in home gym so I can hog the rack all day if I want.


Now that sounds right up my alley. There IS a pattern I'm sure that I kinda naturally followed without me planning for it on my lifts the past 2 months. I think I need to figure out where my percentages were when I was doing that and see if I can kinda plug that in to a 5/3/1 type set up, it may be closer than I think already. As far as doing something for 5 reps I never really did sets where yeah I can hit about 5 reps, it was more of a build up/warm up thing. Say for squats if I decided I wanted to "work" at 235 that day I would do just enough to pyramid up in warmups, then try to hit 3-5 reps on the 235 and keep going. But then sometimes that'd be easier than anticipated so I'd bump up the wt a little more and lower reps. So yeah, I just kinda did whatever the hell I wanted which is probably not the best way to go.

Also want to make sure I'm getting in that big Back Day every week and some bonus pull ups/rows mixed in through the week. If I don't I feel like my press work is gonna run rampant and mess me up.


Me or itsagoodday? I feel like that's what I've been doing but I also feel like I may be going about it in a stupid way, dunno.

I meant it for itsagoodday. Hey if it works for you then its not a bad idea.

[itsagoodday]

This is the kind of thing I had written myself out for squats back in January. It's loosely based on 5/3/1, but I made it so a bunch of stuff was optional depending on how I felt that day. I will say my squats have liked this format. I've also been running deads similar to this, the biggest change for deads was that I found I preferred 8 singles @ 90% instead of the 3x 5-8x 75% for the volume work at the end. Not that I'm a programming guru by any stretch of the imagination, but it might give you some ideas to mull over.

3x 75%
3x 80%
3x 85% (can do an optional AMRAP here)
3x 90% (optional joker set, optional AMRAP)
1x singles (optional heavy singles, 1-3 sets total)
1x singles
1x singles
3x 5-8x 75% (first set last optional back-off volume work, I'd aim for 5-8 reps on the first set, then try to match that same rep # for all 3 sets)

[thehobbes]

This is the kind of thing I had written myself out for squats back in January. It's loosely based on 5/3/1, but I made it so a bunch of stuff was optional depending on how I felt that day. I will say my squats have liked this format. I've also been running deads similar to this, the biggest change for deads was that I found I preferred 8 singles @ 90% instead of the 3x 5-8x 75% for the volume work at the end. Not that I'm a programming guru by any stretch of the imagination, but it might give you some ideas to mull over.

3x 75%
3x 80%
3x 85% (can do an optional AMRAP here)
3x 90% (optional joker set, optional AMRAP)
1x singles (optional heavy singles, 1-3 sets total)
1x singles
1x singles
3x 5-8x 75% (first set last optional back-off volume work, I'd aim for 5-8 reps on the first set, then try to match that same rep # for all 3 sets)

Alright, did the maths for all four compounds, looks excellent for squats/deads, doable for OHP, would adjust for bp.

Example so I know what I'm dealing with, squat...
-wu
-190 x 3
-205 x 3
-215 x 3 or AMRAP
-230 x 3 or AMRAP
-240 x 1
-240 x 1
-240 x 1
-190 for 5-8
-190 for 5-8
-190 for 5-8

Not bad at all, that's on track with how I've been working up and it has been working great for me. I like the extra sets at the end that are lighter but you can work on form/endurance, I hate quitting right after the singles. I like the options too, so if it's chitty going on the squats that day then don't even do those singles and work lighter.

Even OHP would be (and I'm estimating at 110, been hitting 100x4 so closeenough.jpg)...
-wu
-80 x 3
-90 x 3
-95 x 3
-100 x 3
-105 x 1
-105 x 1
-105 x 1
-80 for 5-8
-80 for 5-8
-80 for 5-8

Mmmm, liking that a lot! Some of those had to be rounded of course but that looks good enough, no need to deal with micro plates at this point.


For DL I may have to base it off of a safer max, I've only hit 295 recently so maybe base it on that and not 315 as I haven't hit that in a while. If based on 315 I'm having to do working sets at 280 and singles at 285 which may be a bit much to start with, so yeah lower the estimated max for now. And it may do me a favor to do some 5-8 rep sets at the end since I'm still trying to get my form changes down.

And for bench it's coming out to like 140x3, 150x3, etc but I find it's not too fruitful for me to do the little 10lb jumps until I get to 165 and up. I can make that work, also put some 3-5 work after whatever singles I'm doing. Kind of hesitant before to do singles every time on bp but as long as I'm not trying to struggle through singles all at like 95% and keep the wt a tad lower it should be fine.

Thanks brohametta, this looks like a solid approach. I'm assuming after about a month and/or when the singles are easy enough to hit clean doubles or more you either bump up the max you're figuring this from to get new numbers, or increase all sets by like 5lb.

[Cackhanded]

Thanks! I eventually noticed everybody wearing them who was squatting a decent amount and looked into it. Was told they help with injury prevention and feel great keeping your knees warm. Can confirm, they feel great keeping my knees warm! I guess there really is no reason not to and if it helps even in a small way then great.

Ah I see, I've been thinking along the same lines (except the warmth part, I hate warm knees ) but I don't think I'm lifting heavy enough to justify it tbh. I think I'll wait for a decent belt first and then get some sleeves later on.

And what is all this math and technical stuff about ey? You're ruining our reputation for being meatheads

[itsagoodday]

Thanks brohametta, this looks like a solid approach. I'm assuming after about a month and/or when the singles are easy enough to hit clean doubles or more you either bump up the max you're figuring this from to get new numbers, or increase all sets by like 5lb.

Something along those lines should work, yup. I will say that while my squats and deads have gone up with this basic framework, I failed in a couple of areas with my first 'do it on my own' approach. Probably the biggest was just keeping the big picture in mind. That basic format did work on a day to day basis, but I didn't have a good approach as to when to increment. That's really one of the (many) places where it wasn't 5/3/1 at all. 5/3/1 runs those set little mini-cycles where you'll do the sets of 5 for a week, sets of 3 for a week, make bigger jumps on the third week for the 5/3/1, deload the fourth, then increase the weight and do it all again. I had days where I'd work in sets of 5's instead of 3's, but there wasn't much method to the madness, it was more like 'ooooh, I should get more of a volume day in'. I also changed their percentages around until I liked the look of the numbers, and then most days I just played it by ear anyway and used weights that made sense based upon how I was feeling that day. Also, I think the AMRAPs are actually supposed to be an integral part of 5/3/1, they're one of the things that help determine whether you should move on to jokers or not. I made them optional (and didn't do them too often) because I am personally horrible at repping heavy stuff, and didn't see much point to testing how many squat good mornings I could do in a row lol.

Have you seen this site? If you scroll down, it will crunch some numbers for you on the calculator and shows a ton of the legit 5/3/1 optional stuff.
http://blackironbeast.com/5/3/1/calculator

So ultimately although I started by working off a 3/5/1 template, I butchered it in the end Did it work? Yeah, for squats and deads it actually did. But I absolutely could have done some things better, so still trying to figure those parts out. Good luck!

[thehobbes]

Ah I see, I've been thinking along the same lines (except the warmth part, I hate warm knees ) but I don't think I'm lifting heavy enough to justify it tbh. I think I'll wait for a decent belt first and then get some sleeves later on.

Lol'd hard at "I hate warm knees." Yeah a belt would be good to try first, the sleeves won't do any harm, will only help, except for your knees feeling warm heehee.

And what is all this math and technical stuff about ey? You're ruining our reputation for being meatheads

If it helps at all I accidentally stuck my elbow in my eggs as I was too aggressively reaching for my turkey jerky and reading maths.

Something along those lines should work, yup. I will say that while my squats and deads have gone up with this basic framework, I failed in a couple of areas with my first 'do it on my own' approach. Probably the biggest was just keeping the big picture in mind. That basic format did work on a day to day basis, but I didn't have a good approach as to when to increment. That's really one of the (many) places where it wasn't 5/3/1 at all. 5/3/1 runs those set little mini-cycles where you'll do the sets of 5 for a week, sets of 3 for a week, make bigger jumps on the third week for the 5/3/1, deload the fourth, then increase the weight and do it all again. I had days where I'd work in sets of 5's instead of 3's, but there wasn't much method to the madness, it was more like 'ooooh, I should get more of a volume day in'. I also changed their percentages around until I liked the look of the numbers, and then most days I just played it by ear anyway and used weights that made sense based upon how I was feeling that day. Also, I think the AMRAPs are actually supposed to be an integral part of 5/3/1, they're one of the things that help determine whether you should move on to jokers or not. I made them optional (and didn't do them too often) because I am personally horrible at repping heavy stuff, and didn't see much point to testing how many squat good mornings I could do in a row lol.

Sounds reasonable, adjusting things on how I'm feeling that day is something I've been doing so I do like the couple of optional paths in your setup. I like the AMRAP sets personally, but I was always confused where to plug those in so I wasn't wasting my time. With the above setup it's like hit 3 for sure but if you can keep going then do it. And I tend to make that decision mid-set so I'm not over reaching or dealing with a train-wreck set to simply hit what I'm supposed to. Some days I was just getting in a few with some struggle, other days I could hit 6.

Have you seen this site? If you scroll down, it will crunch some numbers for you on the calculator and shows a ton of the legit 5/3/1 optional stuff.
http://blackironbeast.com/5/3/1/calculator

Plugged in some numbers and despite the program at the top I'm choosing it's setting the working sets really low. It's setting me at squats 220 and DL 255 for the heavier working sets, wtf, most are much much lower than that. Hmmm, will play around more with that later, maybe I set something wrong.

So ultimately although I started by working off a 3/5/1 template, I butchered it in the end Did it work? Yeah, for squats and deads it actually did. But I absolutely could have done some things better, so still trying to figure those parts out. Good luck!

Gotcha, like you said before the figuring when to increase looks like that will confuse me the most. But just starting at the calculations up there that all looks very doable and reasonable. I guess I'll start there and see how it goes, and I'll keep in my beloved pull ups and rows throughout. Thanks IAGD!

[phoenix4444]

You have one hell of bench woman. Strong, strong, and strong!

[VO2Maxima]

This is the kind of thing I had written myself out for squats back in January. It's loosely based on 5/3/1, but I made it so a bunch of stuff was optional depending on how I felt that day. I will say my squats have liked this format. I've also been running deads similar to this, the biggest change for deads was that I found I preferred 8 singles @ 90% instead of the 3x 5-8x 75% for the volume work at the end. Not that I'm a programming guru by any stretch of the imagination, but it might give you some ideas to mull over.

3x 75%
3x 80%
3x 85% (can do an optional AMRAP here)
3x 90% (optional joker set, optional AMRAP)
1x singles (optional heavy singles, 1-3 sets total)
1x singles
1x singles
3x 5-8x 75% (first set last optional back-off volume work, I'd aim for 5-8 reps on the first set, then try to match that same rep # for all 3 sets)

Minus the back-off sets, almost looks like Westside Maximum Effort.

[thehobbes]

You have one hell of bench woman. Strong, strong, and strong!

Thanks, bench with the rage of 1,000 angry suns RARRWWW!

Minus the back-off sets, almost looks like Westside Maximum Effort.

Sweet, it resembles a real thing, I like the looks of it.

[VO2Maxima]

Sweet, it resembles a real thing, I like the looks of it.

http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/P.../Westside.html

[itsagoodday]

Minus the back-off sets, almost looks like Westside Maximum Effort.

Wait, I'm not an idiot?!?! This is news lol

[phoenix4444]

Thanks, bench with the rage of 1,000 angry suns RARRWWW!

I am going to channel your RARW next time I bench

[stingray72]

Trust me the RARW works. Hey hammy do you have a set plan for the next time you test your max?

[thehobbes]

http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/P.../Westside.html

Awww yeah, thanks Maxima.

Wait, I'm not an idiot?!?! This is news lol

Lol, solid plan is solid, srs.

I am going to channel your RARW next time I bench

Heehee, it really happens on its own too, like your body get rid of pressure so you don't die.

Trust me the RARW works. Hey hammy do you have a set plan for the next time you test your max?

I don't, sometimes I don't even bother maxing for like a year. Oh do you mean right now? Guess I'm gonna have to come up with something. DL could max at any time if I'm feeling it, bp would have to be confident I can hit the 200, squat would have to be really comfortable to try whatever wt that's gonna be (just did 255 a few weeks ago, heavier seems like a ton to handle right now just having that on my back although I'm sure I got more than 255 in me), and have never tried max on OHP because that one can be a bit more dangerous in general.

[JenSTL4]

Nice job on the 190 bench So damn strong! I can barely bench half of that

New program looks great! I'm sure you will rampage it

[stingray72]

I didnt realize you did 190 recently good job.

[thehobbes]

Nice job on the 190 bench So damn strong! I can barely bench half of that

New program looks great! I'm sure you will rampage it

Thanks Jen, looking forward to gym next week.

I didnt realize you did 190 recently good job.

Yep, hit that a couple days ago, thanks.