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  1. #31
    Registered User HFWR's Avatar
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    Anyone buying PM thinking they're not "speculating", say, like the stock market, should consider:

    - You'll receive NO dividends for holding it, so you're depending only on cap gains, or, as some call it, "the greater fool theory"...
    - The spread between what you'll pay for it, and what someone will buy it from you, is large. Iow, the transactions costs are very high. You are instantly in a hole...

    Better to diversify across several asset classes.
    Strong like bull...
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  2. #32
    Cthulhu fhtagn GreatOldOne's Avatar
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    I've never liked silver.
    (oO) That is not dead which can eternal lie,
    /||\ And with strange aeons even death may die.

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  3. #33
    Registered User NorwichGrad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GreatOldOne View Post
    I've never liked silver.
    I love silver. I also love Juze.
    This above all..
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  4. #34
    Registered User NorwichGrad's Avatar
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    BUMP..

    Anybody pay attention to the DOW on Thursday and Friday? It looks like "it" came a month early.. Been stacking the best I can.

    Monday will be interesting. Actually, Sunday will be interesting.. If you recall a several weeks ago, gold was manipulated big time on a Sunday.
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  5. #35
    ~~MsFit~~ Lou1se's Avatar
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    Just like 2007, Chinese stocks forewarned of trouble ahead in global markets and our bank shares did the same here in Oz. There's been ample warning for investors to get safe and traders to get short. Gold stocks turned green Friday and sent a clear signal that we are in for a strong rally from current levels.

    Tomorrow will be a rough day us, thankfully I've taken the necessary steps so I can sleep at night. LOL

    I hope you make a fortune NG
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  6. #36
    ~~MsFit~~ Lou1se's Avatar
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    A big day today. Down ~2%. Safety hats and running shoes - or maybe dancing shoes today..







    .
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  7. #37
    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    Stock future are up this morning. Expect a rally. Don't panic about days like yesterday. You only lose if you sell.
    Helping one person may not change the world, but it could change the world for one person.

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  8. #38
    Registered User Plateauplower's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    Stock future are up this morning. Expect a rally. Don't panic about days like yesterday. You only lose if you sell.
    Right, the S&P 500 is up like 300% in the last 5 years. Corrections are a part of the market. Buy low, hold long, sell high.
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  9. #39
    Registered User NorwichGrad's Avatar
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    Thanks, Marie.. I look at precious metals more of a ‘wealth preserver’ rather than a true investment.. There will be a reset, and once that takes place I hope that the true value of PM will show.

    Mark and PP – I agree that today may be a good day for a rebounce.. But I call that the “Dead Cat Bounce.” The petrodollar is dying.. This is why our own gummint is pushing for war. This is why Kerry wants to make a deal with Iran (which has NOTHING to do with nuclear weapons, but all to do with preserving the dying petrodollar).

    The global debt is unsustainable, at quadrillion dollars. It has already cracked.. There are many bubbles that are yet to pop.. Like I mentioned in X-Trainer’s thread regarding the price of oil, I was expecting this to happen in the Fall, and it’s only August. The worse is yet to come.

    Countries are already trading outside the dollar.. Global economies are based on credit, and the credit system is coming to a screeching halt..
    This above all..
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  10. #40
    Registered User Plateauplower's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NorwichGrad View Post
    Thanks, Marie.. I look at precious metals more of a ‘wealth preserver’ rather than a true investment.. There will be a reset, and once that takes place I hope that the true value of PM will show.

    Mark and PP – I agree that today may be a good day for a rebounce.. But I call that the “Dead Cat Bounce.” The petrodollar is dying.. This is why our own gummint is pushing for war. This is why Kerry wants to make a deal with Iran (which has NOTHING to do with nuclear weapons, but all to do with preserving the dying petrodollar).

    The global debt is unsustainable, at quadrillion dollars. It has already cracked.. There are many bubbles that are yet to pop.. Like I mentioned in X-Trainer’s thread regarding the price of oil, I was expecting this to happen in the Fall, and it’s only August. The worse is yet to come.

    Countries are already trading outside the dollar.. Global economies are based on credit, and the credit system is coming to a screeching halt..
    I like commodities too, I hold some PMs, but as for the doom and gloom; if a global scale economic meltdown occured, even if just the US market completely crashed, there would be many physical metals, items, skills with intrinisc values much higher than gold, silver, platnum, palladium, etc.

    Right now metals and stocks are still overvalued IMO, I'm still dumping money into the market but I have a nice pile of "cash" sitting in a money market fund just waiting for the next bear run...Then that will get moved into cheap index funds and will sit and grow until I feel like the market is getting too expensive and will allocate more contributions to cash. If silver hits $12/oz gold $900/oz I will do some shopping for that. Contrarian approach I dont look at Metals as much of a money maker until all the chicken littles move into it and run the prices up to absurd levels, then its time for some profit taking otherwise it just sits, meanwhile true investments just keep on growing. If the market collapses I have only "lost" money I was willing to gamble with anyway (even though its over 30% of my AGI)
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  11. #41
    Registered User NorwichGrad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    I like commodities too, I hold some PMs, but as for the doom and gloom; if a global scale economic meltdown occured, even if just the US market completely crashed, there would be many physical metals, items, skills with intrinisc values much higher than gold, silver, platnum, palladium, etc.

    Right now metals and stocks are still overvalued IMO, I'm still dumping money into the market but I have a nice pile of "cash" sitting in a money market fund just waiting for the next bear run...Then that will get moved into cheap index funds and will sit and grow until I feel like the market is getting too expensive and will allocate more contributions to cash. If silver hits $12/oz gold $900/oz I will do some shopping for that. Contrarian approach I dont look at Metals as much of a money maker until all the chicken littles move into it and run the prices up to absurd levels, then its time for some profit taking otherwise it just sits, meanwhile true investments just keep on growing. If the market collapses I have only "lost" money I was willing to gamble with anyway (even though its over 30% of my AGI)
    The fact that you have PMs makes you well ahead of 90% of the population.. Well done, brother.. Keep on stacking.. And btw, I want to thank you for introducing APMEX.. I was getting my PMs from JMBullion, but AP is a bit cheaper.

    As far as doom and gloom, like I always say, I WANT TO BE WRONG.. It’s kinda like buying life insurance.. You want to be protected, but you do not wish death.. It’s the same thing with what I’m seeing, bro.. A year ago in 2014, I would have looked at ‘Joel of 2015’ and said, ‘bro, your tinfoil hat is too tight.’

    But there are secular signs that things are NOT good.. And I say secular because there are also ‘Biblical’ signs which I’d rather not get into because I respect people’s spiritual / religious views.

    On the secular side, you know that the Chinese announced a few weeks ago that they increased their holding by ‘only’ a thousand ton of gold or so.. They have more than this.. Some are saying they probably have over 10,000 tons.. This would make them qualify their yuan to be the world currency. The US is ‘supposed’ to have 8,000 tons but there is no proof. The gold audit at Fort Knox failed seven times already. The US HAS NO GOLD .. Someday China will bitchslap the West when it announces its gold holdings. India has also accumulated 33% of the world’s silver. Petroyuan was born just a few months ago, but MSM never covered it.

    This is just one issue. There are other secular signs:

    a) The other issues are geo-political in nature.. Kerry admitted that the dollar will lose its reserve status if we do no approve the Iran deal.
    b) The Japanese government is being ‘pushed’ by our own gummint to change its pacifist constitution back into pre-WWII. The reason is simple. The US wants to contain China.
    c) Then you have the clusterphukk in the middle east.
    d) Then you have the two Koreas which has been diffused, but what the MSM don’t tell you is that the US sent 50 some B-52 bombers to South Korea.
    e) Then you have the possibility of sending US troops down to South America because the Chinese and Russians are already doing business with them OUTSIDE the pertrodollar.
    f) As I’m typing this, oil has plunged to new lows. It could hit $30 a barrel. Not good.

    When a rabid animal is cornered, that beast will be desperate.. The US gummint is that rabid animal. It will not easily give its powers to the next guy in line.


    But you’re right, though.. PM as part of preparation / insurance should be last on the list. Food, water, shelter, protection, CASH (to your point) should be priorities.
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  12. #42
    Registered User NorwichGrad's Avatar
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    Mark and PP - the three of us all agreed this AM that the market would rally. It did.

    But as of now it's back in the red. Cot dang, bros. the dead cat bounced three times and they're still trying to resuscitate the poor thing. Wow.

    Edit - And the Feds want to hike interest in September. Double wowzer bros.
    Last edited by NorwichGrad; 08-25-2015 at 01:13 PM.
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  13. #43
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    If silver/gold/PMs become a regular means of exchange... I'm not really sure I want to live in that world anyways. JIMO.

    And by the way, if the market drops and closes below 15,555 (200 wk avg), its over. Look out below. Again, IMO.
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  14. #44
    Registered User NorwichGrad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bradandblake View Post
    If silver/gold/PMs become a regular means of exchange... I'm not really sure I want to live in that world anyways. JIMO.

    And by the way, if the market drops and closes below 15,555 (200 wk avg), its over. Look out below. Again, IMO.
    Just curious why you say that regarding PMs.
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  15. #45
    Registered User bradandblake's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NorwichGrad View Post
    Just curious why you say that regarding PMs.
    Because it means the world is in hellish turmoil. There is no way the debt pushers would allow it without horrible endless fight.
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  16. #46
    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    China is a big problem. All their data is intentionally skewed and manufactured. It has finally caught up. I think China is going to bust because of it's consistent lying. This of course causes great uncertainty. Markets do not like uncertainty.
    Helping one person may not change the world, but it could change the world for one person.

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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    China is a big problem. All their data is intentionally skewed and manufactured. It has finally caught up. I think China is going to bust because of it's consistent lying. This of course causes great uncertainty. Markets do not like uncertainty.
    There wouldn't be such a problem if the markets weren't artificially priced to begin with, through suppressed interest rates and corporate buybacks .
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  18. #48
    Registered User NorwichGrad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bradandblake View Post
    Because it means the world is in hellish turmoil. There is no way the debt pushers would allow it without horrible endless fight.
    Ahh.. In that case, yes, I agree with you.. This is why the US gummint / central banks are pushing for war..We already are in hellish turmoil.. All wars are banker wars.. History has shown time and time again that inflating the money supply with nothing but ink and paper is not sound economics..



    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    China is a big problem. All their data is intentionally skewed and manufactured. It has finally caught up. I think China is going to bust because of it's consistent lying. This of course causes great uncertainty. Markets do not like uncertainty.
    Yes, but the Western central banks are no different when it comes to committing white collar crimes.. The Chinese overtly interferes with their market, while the US gummint COVERTLY interferes with ours.. Case in point, if you recall yesterday when the DOW dropped 1000 points then went up 800 points only to drop again, it was because of our plunge protection team (PPT)..


    The great news about China (if you want to call it great news) is that they have ALL the manufacturing capabilities (thanks NAFTA) and they also have tons of GOLD to back their yuan / reminbi when they choose to do so..

    The US has no more manufacturing and the feds cannot even repatriate the gold of Germany and the Great State of Texas. The only thing backing the dollar is the might of the US military. But we gotta keep in mind the BRICS nations - particularly Russia and China - are NO Iraq or Libya..
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    Originally Posted by NorwichGrad View Post
    Bros,

    I’m not telling anybody how to spend their hard-earned FIAT dollar that is on the brink of collapse. As of this typing, gold is $1200 an ounce; silver is $16 an ounce.

    That is a ratio of 1:75. (1oz of gold @ $1200 divided by 1 oz of silver @ $16 = 75)

    Historically, gold : silver ratio is / was between 1:12 and 1:20.

    This means silver is UNDERVALUED right now.

    Moreover, according to some geologist, silver may become extinct by 2020.. This is because silver not only has ‘bling’ factor like gold, silver also has many, many industrial uses ranging from cell phones to anti-microbe stuff.

    Just wanted to share. Thanks for allowing me to waste your time reading my post.
    cell phones, computers, and other things get recycled for scrap metal. So I highly doubt we will run out, but I might call around for prices on junk silver just in case.
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    came in expecting a thread about me. leaving disappointing because I don't have the extra cash to buy silver.
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    Yearly Bump.

    I started this thread a year and a day ago. Silver was 16 bucks an ounce at the time.

    I had mentioned how the precious metal market is heavily manipulated by banks. After my original posting, the price was gradually suppressed to around 14 to 15 an ounce for a year.

    A few weeks ago, Deutsche Bank confirmed what we tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorists have been saying all along when they admitted that they are part of the manipulation, and they also threw other banks under the bus when they said there were going to name them. Just a side note, again, wearing my tin foil hat, keep an eye on Deutsche Bank. They are Lehman on ‘roids. They have derivative exposure 70 times that of Lehman.

    Then a few weeks ago, the president and the vice president had emergency meetings (yes, plural) with the federal reserve. It is rare of the POTUS and VP to attend meetings together for security reasons.


    This week, BAM! What we conspiracy theorists have been saying all along was confirmed as well, when Shanghai Gold Exchange unveiled the curtain and set the price on gold. REAL GOLD, and not paper gold the way the western central banks do. More and more countries will now trade OUTSIDE the worthless dollar.


    It looks like gold and silver are going to fair market value. Silver broke through the key level of 16 bucks an ounce, and it is now over 17 bucks an ounce. The funny thing is that the western banks tried to suppress the metal again the other day when somebody spent 2 billion dollars. Silver quickly went down to 16 bucks an ounce, but by the afternoon it was back to 17 bucks.


    Silver prices up 6% this week and 25% YTD. Gold was $1050 an ounce at the end of 2015. It is now $1250 an ounce.


    To my PM stacking brohams, CONGRATS! Gold and silver have been real money for thousands of years. And they will continue to do their function for thousands more (unless Hillary decides to nuke us all). The central banks are losing control, that is why they are taking us to war.
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    ^^G, you did well. One thing to remember is that commodities (as you are very aware of), can fluctuate wildly at any time and is sensitive to many factors. Another way of describing that is, it is a calculate gamble. Long-term? Probably not a bad investment for diversification and as a partial hedge against inflation.
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    Originally Posted by NorwichGrad View Post
    A few weeks ago, Deutsche Bank confirmed what we tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorists have been saying all along when they admitted that they are part of the manipulation, and they also threw other banks under the bus when they said there were going to name them. Just a side note, again, wearing my tin foil hat, keep an eye on Deutsche Bank.
    I traded my tin foil hat in for a silver foil hat. I figure it may triple in value soon.
    But in all seriousness, I think you are right. Sgtreport.com always has lots of good info on this subject and that site is indirectly saying basically the same thing.
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    Hope you are right Joel. Been sitting on 40 pounds of junk for years.

    Nelson Bunker hooked me in '79.
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    I picked some more up off and on while it was cheap and I could low premiums. Gotta love the flash sales at AMPEX. I don't think I would sell it even if it goes back up to near $30. Just a hassel Dollar cost averaging back in... Im long in silver now, like the kids can have it when I croak long...LOL
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    Originally Posted by NorwichGrad View Post
    Yearly Bump.

    I started this thread a year and a day ago. Silver was 16 bucks an ounce at the time.

    I had mentioned how the precious metal market is heavily manipulated by banks. After my original posting, the price was gradually suppressed to around 14 to 15 an ounce for a year.

    A few weeks ago, Deutsche Bank confirmed what we tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorists have been saying all along when they admitted that they are part of the manipulation, and they also threw other banks under the bus when they said there were going to name them. Just a side note, again, wearing my tin foil hat, keep an eye on Deutsche Bank. They are Lehman on ‘roids. They have derivative exposure 70 times that of Lehman.

    Then a few weeks ago, the president and the vice president had emergency meetings (yes, plural) with the federal reserve. It is rare of the POTUS and VP to attend meetings together for security reasons.


    This week, BAM! What we conspiracy theorists have been saying all along was confirmed as well, when Shanghai Gold Exchange unveiled the curtain and set the price on gold. REAL GOLD, and not paper gold the way the western central banks do. More and more countries will now trade OUTSIDE the worthless dollar.


    It looks like gold and silver are going to fair market value. Silver broke through the key level of 16 bucks an ounce, and it is now over 17 bucks an ounce. The funny thing is that the western banks tried to suppress the metal again the other day when somebody spent 2 billion dollars. Silver quickly went down to 16 bucks an ounce, but by the afternoon it was back to 17 bucks.


    Silver prices up 6% this week and 25% YTD. Gold was $1050 an ounce at the end of 2015. It is now $1250 an ounce.


    To my PM stacking brohams, CONGRATS! Gold and silver have been real money for thousands of years. And they will continue to do their function for thousands more (unless Hillary decides to nuke us all). The central banks are losing control, that is why they are taking us to war.
    I thought the Conspiracy Therorists predicted that China would utilize a gold standard? Seriously...this is what I saw across various forums. The Shangai Exchange gold exchange was known for some time....

    Maybe my signals are across.

    Always good to have a diversified portfolio.
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    ^^G, you did well. One thing to remember is that commodities (as you are very aware of), can fluctuate wildly at any time and is sensitive to many factors. Another way of describing that is, it is a calculate gamble. Long-term? Probably not a bad investment for diversification and as a partial hedge against inflation.
    Thanks, Mark. I tend to think generationally. I think about the future of my kids a lot. I'm not spoiling them. They will work for their money. But if I can leave something behind for them that's valuable, then it's just icing on the cake.

    Originally Posted by waldopepper View Post
    I traded my tin foil hat in for a silver foil hat. I figure it may triple in value soon.
    But in all seriousness, I think you are right. Sgtreport.com always has lots of good info on this subject and that site is indirectly saying basically the same thing.

    LOL on silver foil hat. All currencies in the world are fiat. This is the first time in mankind's history where all are fiat. At least in the past, some countries would have fiat while others would have sound money. The global debt is a quadrillion dollars. 250 trillion. This is mathematically impossible to repay. There will be a reset. And some nations will go back to sound money. To be honest, triple digit is very conservative.

    Originally Posted by ljimd View Post
    Hope you are right Joel. Been sitting on 40 pounds of junk for years.

    Nelson Bunker hooked me in '79.
    Well, $hit, sir. You better keep doing what you're doing at the gym so that you will maintain in great shape so you can enjoy the fruit of your labor. You saved those 40 lbs of silver. You earned the right to enjoy them when they return to fair market value. And that's the problem with ZIRP (and now NIRP in some countries). Savers are punished.


    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    I picked some more up off and on while it was cheap and I could low premiums. Gotta love the flash sales at AMPEX. I don't think I would sell it even if it goes back up to near $30. Just a hassel Dollar cost averaging back in... Im long in silver now, like the kids can have it when I croak long...LOL
    LOL.. That's my plan also.. haha.

    Originally Posted by Smelly bull View Post
    I thought the Conspiracy Therorists predicted that China would utilize a gold standard? Seriously...this is what I saw across various forums. The Shangai Exchange gold exchange was known for some time....

    Maybe my signals are across.

    Always good to have a diversified portfolio.
    Yes. Shanghai Gold Exchange has been around for a long time. The recent gold price fix was yuan-denominated. New York and London are currently the price setters (more like manipulators) of gold. So yuan-denominated meaning the price of gold fix in China will be in yuan and not dollar.

    But a bigger problem for the US is that the Chinese refuse to convert the yuan to or from dollar. They fear that countries around the world will trade their dollar (remember it is still the world reserve currency) for the yuan (now gold-backed) and the Chinese will be left with the worthless dollar. China dumped billions of dollars worth of US treasuries not too long ago, and they still have some left.

    I think eventually yuan will be officially backed by gold.

    CME, a year and a half ago, also set a circuit breaker in their system. In other words, if the gold price in the US (which is based on paper gold instead of real gold like China) goes too high too fast, the circuit breaker will be activated to halt trading. I think CME anticipated this day. COMEX is running out of precious metals. And Ft Knox has NO gold.

    But we have a lot of dollar, though, yay.

    I'm with you on being diversified. Gold and silver are actually last on my list. My first priority is survival through self-sufficiency. This is why I started raising chickens last year, and I'm starting to farm this year.
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    Originally Posted by ljimd View Post
    Hope you are right Joel. Been sitting on 40 pounds of junk for years.

    Nelson Bunker hooked me in '79.
    It sat at $5.00/oz for a long time........your should be at least 300% ahead from then .
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    Silver has indeed been at a bottom for over a year now. You buy at a bottom. High 14'S TO LOW 15'S was the bottom. I heard people say it was going to 13 and below and I tried telling them, no! Get in now. It is going up.

    I honestly hope that people stay fooled a little longer and silver drops. I don't have enough. Only managed to get 156 ounces this time.

    Silver and gold are meant to protect your wealth from a weak dollar or any other financial crisis. Thats why you only make it 5 percent of your portfolio or less.

    I bought in a 10 dollars an ounce and shortly after it went to 50 an ounce. So of course I sold and made a nice profit.

    to break it down I had 200 ounces. With fees my cost average was about $12 an ounce. I sold at around $50 an ounce. That's $10,000 off of an investment of 2,400 in a matter of a couple years. Not to mention I also had gold.

    Don't let people tell you that you cannot make money off of silver and gold. Buy low (find the bottom) sell high. Hold physical silver. I do not play with paper silver. I already have paper money.
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    Originally Posted by HFWR View Post
    Anyone buying PM thinking they're not "speculating", say, like the stock market, should consider:

    - You'll receive NO dividends for holding it, so you're depending only on cap gains, or, as some call it, "the greater fool theory"...
    - The spread between what you'll pay for it, and what someone will buy it from you, is large. Iow, the transactions costs are very high. You are instantly in a hole...

    Better to diversify across several asset classes.
    Best post ITT ^^^^^

    And remember how the DOW was an actual gauge as to the state of the economy? Yeah, that $hit stopped being the case after 9/11. Our stock market(s) no longer reflect the reality that they once did.

    Caveat emptor!
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