can i only take calories from carbs?

[brrreatheme]

20 year-old female, 169lbs, 5'10'', lifting heavy 6x/week for about an hour, sometimes 1 or 2 quick cardio sessions thrown in, sedentary to lightly active job

i started flexible dieting mid-january at 2200 cals with 170p, 70f and 220c i think as thats what pretty much all my calculations and calculators came up with. nothing changed so i lowered, same thing so i lowered again and am now doing 1700cals, 165p, 57f and 133c.
have only been doing this for a few days so don't know if that's gonna work for sure yet but either way i'll probably have to lower again if nothing changes or i in case i plateau i guess? now 1700cals is fine but i know that i will really struggle when going even lower.
i find that carbs keep me the fullest but if i have to go lower i can only really take those calories from carbs since my protein is about 1g/lbs and as far as i know i shouldn't go lower than 0.3g/lbs for fat. any tips on what i could do? also i thought i would mention that everytime i changed my macros i stuck to them for at least two weeks to see if they work and i do track properly so i can be sure that i am not going over!
sorry for the long post, any help is appreciated!

[Jcart159]

#1 tip from me, would be to decrease protein a bit.

That will give you more for carbs since you seem to perform well on them. You really only need .82g/lb of body weight in terms of protein, so you could lower your protein to 140g and be completely fine. That means you could throw those 30 grams you removed from protein into carbs if you liked.

Also, I find it kind of hard to believe you wouldn't be losing weight on 1700 cals at your stats... are you sure you are tracking accurately?

[jdrush]

You may just have to up your cardio. I do a half hour brisk walk at an incline after each weight session (3X), 2 days of interval kettlebell training, and a sprint workout.

Some people just need to do more, and being a female you hold on to fat more stubbornly (evolution)

[jdrush]

Not to be creepy but your stats and pictures suggest you don't really need to cut that much more anyway.

[loganhart]

You may just have to up your cardio. I do a half hour brisk walk at an incline after each weight session (3X), 2 days of interval kettlebell training, and a sprint workout.

Some people just need to do more, and being a female you hold on to fat more stubbornly (evolution)

Wot?

[jdrush]

Wot?

Or I could be wrong

[brrreatheme]

#1 tip from me, would be to decrease protein a bit.

That will give you more for carbs since you seem to perform well on them. You really only need .82g/lb of body weight in terms of protein, so you could lower your protein to 140g and be completely fine. That means you could throw those 30 grams you removed from protein into carbs if you liked.

Also, I find it kind of hard to believe you wouldn't be losing weight on 1700 cals at your stats... are you sure you are tracking accurately?

I thought about doing that but I read multiple times that while cutting it's probably best to keep Protein at 1g for muscle retention so I didn't want to take the risk lol
and like I said, I've only been doing 1700 for a few days now so I still have to wait and see but when I did 1800 I was maybe losing a pound over the course of 4 weeks? if even and yeah i'm pretty sure I'm tracking accurately, i weigh pretty much everything (even if it says one cookie weighs 10g and has 50cals i usually still weigh it just to make sure!) and i almost never eat out or eat something if i can't find accurate nutritional information.

[brrreatheme]

Not to be creepy but your stats and pictures suggest you don't really need to cut that much more anyway.

thats very nice haha but i do wanna get down to at least 155lbs tbh as i have definitely built muscle and i wanna see it too also i wanna bulk at some point but i don't wanna put on even more fat right now as i already have a hard time losing it so i'd rather cut now then bulk. honestly not sure about my bf but i'm guessing it's about 27 right now?

[Jcart159]

I thought about doing that but I read multiple times that while cutting it's probably best to keep Protein at 1g for muscle retention so I didn't want to take the risk lol
and like I said, I've only been doing 1700 for a few days now so I still have to wait and see but when I did 1800 I was maybe losing a pound over the course of 4 weeks? if even and yeah i'm pretty sure I'm tracking accurately, i weigh pretty much everything (even if it says one cookie weighs 10g and has 50cals i usually still weigh it just to make sure!) and i almost never eat out or eat something if i can't find accurate nutritional information.

Stick at 1700 for a couple of weeks and see what happens. You should have no fear of lowering your protein to 140g... there would no difference in terms of 'losing muscle' between you consuming 140g or 170g of protein on a cut.

I weigh 180 pounds and have an extremely active lifestyle, and I only average 150g a day of protein.

What kind of training program are you on?

[jdrush]

My wife is 4 inches shorter and 30 pounds heavier (Former power lifter and thrower); if she found out you're situation she would punch you in the throat, eat your 1700 cal, and go deadlift.

But seriously I personally wouldn't go below 1700 as that's got to be around your BMR and I don't like the idea of going below that. There's a reason it's the MINIMUM to survive.

[Jcart159]

My wife is 4 inches shorter and 30 pounds heavier (Former power lifter and thrower); if she found out you're situation she would punch you in the throat, eat your 1700 cal, and go deadlift.

But seriously I personally wouldn't go below 1700 as that's got to be around your BMR and I don't like the idea of going below that. There's a reason it's the MINIMUM to survive.

I personally wouldn't believe that because she said she lost 1 pound in 4 weeks while eating at 1800... does that sound like 1700 would be her BMR then?

[brrreatheme]

My wife is 4 inches shorter and 30 pounds heavier (Former power lifter and thrower); if she found out you're situation she would punch you in the throat, eat your 1700 cal, and go deadlift.

But seriously I personally wouldn't go below 1700 as that's got to be around your BMR and I don't like the idea of going below that. There's a reason it's the MINIMUM to survive.

i'm guessing she also has a lot more muscle than i do. no need to be rude here, trust me i'd rather eat 2200 but like i mentioned, i have done that and it did nothing. i don't know why and i do find it weird that i have to go so low considering my stats but i can only try and see what happens..just going back up won't change anything either right?

[brrreatheme]

Stick at 1700 for a couple of weeks and see what happens. You should have no fear of lowering your protein to 140g... there would no difference in terms of 'losing muscle' between you consuming 140g or 170g of protein on a cut.

I weigh 180 pounds and have an extremely active lifestyle, and I only average 150g a day of protein.

What kind of training program are you on?

yeah i'll definitely stick to that for now and probably lower my protein, having more carbs to play with would definitely help me with satiety and cravings! i'm not on a specific kind of program, i'm doing 3 days on, 1 off, 3 on. chest/tri, legs (glute/quad focus), back/bi, legs (glute/hamstring focus), shoulders/abs - basically going as heavy as i can while still having proper form and doing 8-12 reps depending on the exercise.

[jdrush]

Didn't mean to be rude. I just believe the answer is not always to lower calories. How long have you been doing your current routine?

Again I may be wrong but for me personally I don't like to do the same thing for more than 4 weeks in a row, I feel like I kind of stall or start going backwards at that point. Could you lower your reps and go for heavier weight? Or just change the type of lift you're doing (Tight grip bench, overhead squat, etc.)

[Jcart159]

yeah i'll definitely stick to that for now and probably lower my protein, having more carbs to play with would definitely help me with satiety and cravings! i'm not on a specific kind of program, i'm doing 3 days on, 1 off, 3 on. chest/tri, legs (glute/quad focus), back/bi, legs (glute/hamstring focus), shoulders/abs - basically going as heavy as i can while still having proper form and doing 8-12 reps depending on the exercise.

You would see drastic improvements in your physique by getting on a proven structured lifting program for beginners... trust me.

Getting your nutrition sorted, and getting on a structured program are the first 2 things I always suggest.

[brrreatheme]

You would see drastic improvements in your physique by getting on a proven structured lifting program for beginners... trust me.

Getting your nutrition sorted, and getting on a structured program are the first 2 things I always suggest.

like what? unfortunately i can't afford a personal trainer/online coach

[Gxp23]

like what? unfortunately i can't afford a personal trainer/online coach

Nobody said that, there are plenty of programs to choose from in the exercise section, last thing anyone in here would want is you wasting money on a PT.

[jdrush]

like what? unfortunately i can't afford a personal trainer/online coach

http://stronglifts.com/5x5/

[SuffolkPunch]

like what? unfortunately i can't afford a personal trainer/online coach

All Pros Simple Beginners Routine seems popular in the female BBing section. It's in the sticky threads of the Workout Programs forum.

Read the macro calculation sticky thread in this forum and use the numbers to decide what to eat on a daily basis.

You don't need a person trainer, do it yourself. Knowledge is power.

[Jcart159]

All Pros Simple Beginners Routine seems popular in the female BBing section. It's in the sticky threads of the Workout Programs forum.

Read the macro calculation sticky thread in this forum and use the numbers to decide what to eat on a daily basis.

You don't need a person trainer, do it yourself. Knowledge is power.

Listen to these guys ^^^

Personally I prefer ICF 5x5, but that's just me. I enjoy the volume

It's a difficult concept to grasp (personally took me years) but getting on a structured program will yield much better results that just going into the gym and doing your own thing. EVEN if doing your own thing consists of similar lifts and rep schemes, having progressive overload programmed into your routine is a game changer.

[brrreatheme]

i think the stronglifts 5x5 sounds very interesting but honestly.. i enjoy going to the gym so often and as much as i like compound exercises, i like training more bodybuilding style just as much. besides, does it make sense to go on a strength program when cutting? also i'd have to lower my macros even more since i'd exercise less, right? wouldn't it be much more beneficial if i did the program when i start my reverse diet/bulk?

[B1ue52]

i think the stronglifts 5x5 sounds very interesting but honestly.. i enjoy going to the gym so often and as much as i like compound exercises, i like training more bodybuilding style just as much. besides, does it make sense to go on a strength program when cutting? also i'd have to lower my macros even more since i'd exercise less, right? wouldn't it be much more beneficial if i did the program when i start my reverse diet/bulk?

SL 5x5 is extremely effective for cutting in my experience and is a very enjoyable and structured routine. Body building style programs are great for fat loss as a result of hypertrophy, combine that structure with higher volume based training and that can be more effective still. However, don't get caught up in SL5x5 being a "strength" program and therefore wont assist with your cut. It's all compounds, therefore more muscle recruitment with each exercise, and targets the largest muscle groups which has a proven effect when used for cutting. You can also add in your own secondary exercises to perform AFTER each of the two different SL workouts. Think something like Bi's and Tri's after Workout A and Shoulders and Back after Workout B - You can do these secondary's in a hypertrophy style like you train now, even if it is just to keep you happy. There is no need to do them at all. Something like 3 sets of 10 etc, superset them, yada yada. Then your working strength on your compounds and hypertrophy on your isolations.

I also feel that you are becoming disheartened because you are focussing on your weight too much. Regardless of whether you are mentally cutting or not, you are currently training for hypertrophy with an elevated protein intake. Therefore, weight loss will still be counteracted to a large degree by lean gains. You should put your focus on your body fat percentage, not your weight.

I am cutting at the moment and doing SL 5x5 with hypertrophy secondary's. My nutrition is spot on and after an initial loss of 3kg (probably water), my weight has stabilised for the past 8 weeks. However, my bodyfat percentage has reduced by a further 7%. Therefore, lean gains are counteracting the weight loss from dropping fat.

I find the easiest way to get your head around it, is, whilst not strictly true but the more weight you lose, the fatter you get, even if you are slim like yourself.

I agree that you don't need to waste money on a PT when there are such good structured routines out there. SL 5x5 has a great app that you just follow what it says. It's a no brainer. With that said, I would highly recommend seeing a PT or nutritionist once per month to get a 7 or 12 point caliper body fat test done, any decent gym will have someone qualified to do caliper BF tests. It is your only real gauge for your current goals.

If you still want to go to the gym more than 3 times per week as dictated by SL 5x5 or similar, then add in a small amount of cardio (20 mins), preferably HIT based or a bit of boxing bag work.

In terms of lowering your macros more, then no, the training you will be doing on SL 5x5 compared to what you are doing now will hit you much harder (IMO). I would even suggest upping your macros to 1800 or 1900 again.

When you start to bulk, then you can still use SL 5x5 or Big 6 or another of the structured routines... or go back to your hypertrophy split again.

I hope that helps

[leeniepie]

at 5'10" and 1700 you should be loosing weight. doing the maths, for exercising 6 days a week your BMR is 1600 and your TDEE 2400, so 1700 is a 700 calories deficit, so something doesn't add up here.
cardio will help, but don't go nuts. 1-2 20-30mins HIIT sessions a week will do.
lowering even more will do you no good.
also being female your weight will fluctuate throughout the month due to hormones

[brrreatheme]

at 5'10" and 1700 you should be loosing weight. doing the maths, for exercising 6 days a week your BMR is 1600 and your TDEE 2400, so 1700 is a 700 calories deficit, so something doesn't add up here.
cardio will help, but don't go nuts. 1-2 20-30mins HIIT sessions a week will do.
lowering even more will do you no good.
also being female your weight will fluctuate throughout the month due to hormones

i know, it's weird! i have used the sticky for calculating macros and other calculations and a lot of different calculators and they all came up with around 2200 for cutting..but i have tried that for a few weeks and nothing changed like i mentioned. i don't know whats going on there, maybe it's because i'm not super muscular but the calculations "think" i am cause i work out 6x/week if that makes sense?

[SuffolkPunch]

You said you have only been at 1700 for a few days. Water weight shifts make weight change in fits and starts and sudden calorie drops can make your body start retaining water. I would stick with it for a couple of weeks and see what happens.

The only thing that is worth doing is to double check all your calorie counting. Remember to include calories in things like milk in tea/coffee, supplements, other drinks etc. This stuff can add up. I have 400 calories a day just from protein powder and drinks before I even start eating anything.

[ShyGuyXS]

i know, it's weird! i have used the sticky for calculating macros and other calculations and a lot of different calculators and they all came up with around 2200 for cutting..but i have tried that for a few weeks and nothing changed like i mentioned. i don't know whats going on there, maybe it's because i'm not super muscular but the calculations "think" i am cause i work out 6x/week if that makes sense?

Well, calculators are just estimates. Having a more accurate BF% can help you get a better idea of how many calories you need, but it's not foolproof; calculators still have a margin of error because there is no "magic number" where everyone will lose weight. (Make sure you're tracking accurately!)

I know you mentioned you dropped calories twice from 2200. What was your intake right before dropping to 1700, and how long were you eating around that level? If it was only a couple of days to 1-2 weeks, don't expect any results or fat loss too quickly, especially because you honestly are at a pretty average weight for your height.

I would continue looking for a structured beginner's routine as others have suggested and, if you decide to start one, you may actually need to increase calories accordingly to make sure you're giving your body enough energy to build some more muscle. That's just my opinion, though!

[brrreatheme]

SL 5x5 is extremely effective for cutting in my experience and is a very enjoyable and structured routine. Body building style programs are great for fat loss as a result of hypertrophy, combine that structure with higher volume based training and that can be more effective still. However, don't get caught up in SL5x5 being a "strength" program and therefore wont assist with your cut. It's all compounds, therefore more muscle recruitment with each exercise, and targets the largest muscle groups which has a proven effect when used for cutting. You can also add in your own secondary exercises to perform AFTER each of the two different SL workouts. Think something like Bi's and Tri's after Workout A and Shoulders and Back after Workout B - You can do these secondary's in a hypertrophy style like you train now, even if it is just to keep you happy. There is no need to do them at all. Something like 3 sets of 10 etc, superset them, yada yada. Then your working strength on your compounds and hypertrophy on your isolations.

I also feel that you are becoming disheartened because you are focussing on your weight too much. Regardless of whether you are mentally cutting or not, you are currently training for hypertrophy with an elevated protein intake. Therefore, weight loss will still be counteracted to a large degree by lean gains. You should put your focus on your body fat percentage, not your weight.

I am cutting at the moment and doing SL 5x5 with hypertrophy secondary's. My nutrition is spot on and after an initial loss of 3kg (probably water), my weight has stabilised for the past 8 weeks. However, my bodyfat percentage has reduced by a further 7%. Therefore, lean gains are counteracting the weight loss from dropping fat.

I find the easiest way to get your head around it, is, whilst not strictly true but the more weight you lose, the fatter you get, even if you are slim like yourself.

I agree that you don't need to waste money on a PT when there are such good structured routines out there. SL 5x5 has a great app that you just follow what it says. It's a no brainer. With that said, I would highly recommend seeing a PT or nutritionist once per month to get a 7 or 12 point caliper body fat test done, any decent gym will have someone qualified to do caliper BF tests. It is your only real gauge for your current goals.

If you still want to go to the gym more than 3 times per week as dictated by SL 5x5 or similar, then add in a small amount of cardio (20 mins), preferably HIT based or a bit of boxing bag work.

In terms of lowering your macros more, then no, the training you will be doing on SL 5x5 compared to what you are doing now will hit you much harder (IMO). I would even suggest upping your macros to 1800 or 1900 again.

When you start to bulk, then you can still use SL 5x5 or Big 6 or another of the structured routines... or go back to your hypertrophy split again.

I hope that helps

thank you, this was very helpful! i will definitely think of doing it as it really sounds very interesting and even though i work towards a nice physique i definitely want to make strength gains as well. i probably should have used "fat loss" rather than "weight loss", when i was at more calories my clothes didn't get more loose and i didn't look any different either + number on the scale didn't change so thats why i assume i didn't loose fat. unfortunately my gym doesn't check bf, i was thinking of buying calipers but not sure if i would be able to use it accurately. now if i start SL 5x5, what if i can't add weight weekly because my strength just won't go up as quickly because i am cutting? sorry for asking so much but i don't just wanna jump into it without clearing some things up

[pierrson]

i dieted to get shredded glutes lowering protein to up my carbs.....to as low as 125g protein a day. & look at the mirror!!!! dont rely at the scale too much as there are so many factors for the number that is showing i.e increased cortisol/stress levels thru dieting exercise lifestyle, what u ate the day before etc. & also dont go nuts lowering the calories so fast and you'll reach the dark poverty days faster and thats where i'd say u have to reserve the caloric balance since i believe ur not dieting for a contest!

protein is overrated ive been taking in a range of 80-120G protein a day & 400-500 carbs a day and energy is through the roof adding more weight on the bar! carbs are the way to go heh

[B1ue52]

thank you, this was very helpful! i will definitely think of doing it as it really sounds very interesting and even though i work towards a nice physique i definitely want to make strength gains as well. i probably should have used "fat loss" rather than "weight loss", when i was at more calories my clothes didn't get more loose and i didn't look any different either + number on the scale didn't change so thats why i assume i didn't loose fat. unfortunately my gym doesn't check bf, i was thinking of buying calipers but not sure if i would be able to use it accurately. now if i start SL 5x5, what if i can't add weight weekly because my strength just won't go up as quickly because i am cutting? sorry for asking so much but i don't just wanna jump into it without clearing some things up

No problem, and no problem with questions. That is what places like this are for right?

You must remember, strength gains goes hand in hand with your goal of a nice physique. Many people don't train strength just because they want to be inherently stronger, they train strength for many other reasons, most of which rely on strength. Strength based routines don't just equate to strength, they equate to muscle gain and in turn fat loss combined with the correct nutrition. So forget about the strength aspect other than in the future, when you come to do your bulking cycle with whichever program you choose to use with it, you will be able to lift more and therefore your workouts will be more effective. But for now, totally forget that its origins are a strength focus.

If you can't get a decent body fat test done then lets go back to basics. Again, keep an eye on the scales but don't get hung up on them. Take a selfie in a relaxed pose in your underwear in the mirror. That's your today baseline. Take the following measurements:

Neck
Shoulders
Chest
Upper Arm
Lower Arm
Waste
Hips
Thigh
Top of calf
Ankle

Then in a month take another selfie in the same underwear and pose and take your measurements again. There are apps out there that help you track these. MFP does to an extent but not enough.

Now consider that due to your current body shape and already slim physique, visible change is going to be in small amounts. It wont be until you have been employing your nutrition and training for a few months until you yourself can see a perceptible change. But change it will. Your size may well not change much, but your shape will.

As far as your question about adding weight on SL 5x5 goes. This is the whole purpose of the routine in a way. The app tells you exactly what to do based on the results of your most recent workout. So if you don't make 5 sets of 5 reps at a given weight, it will tell you to try it at the same weight next time. If you fail again, it will tell you how much to decrease the weight by. So lets say you fail squat at 50kg. Next time you squat you will try 50kg again. You fail. The app will tell you to drop the weight next time to say 35kg and work back up again. The principle being that by the time you get to 50kg again, you will likely go through it and not fail until say 60kg. The theory is you plateau, you drop, you then go through the previous plateau.

Now once that has happened a few times you will start to stall at the same point. At which point the app will tell you to convert that exercise to 3 sets of 5. It will continue to tell you what to do at that point but it does rely on a paid feature £1.99 GBP to open up that option.

Essentially you have a PT on your SmartPhone and once you have done it once, it will all become clear. It even provides videos on how to perform each exercise with proper form.

Honestly, download it today and give it a try. I bet you will fall in love with it.

My only other advice would be that all the exercises start out at 20kg (just an Olympic bar) - With the exception of Rows (30kg) and Deadlifts (40kg) - I would suggest dropping the rows to 20kg and deads to 30kg to begin with just until you are happy with form etc.

So to recap:

1. Forget the scales for now
2. Photos and Measurements
3. Start SL 5x5 or similar
4. Be mindful of which secondary's you choose to employ if any and when you do them
5. Don't overdo the cardio - Preferably limit it to 20 to 30 mins directly after your SL workout
6. Consider upping your calories back up to what the calculators suggest with your new training regime
7. Remember you cant out train poor nutrition
8. Enjoy your new physique :-)

Again, hope that helps

[Jcart159]

i think the stronglifts 5x5 sounds very interesting but honestly.. i enjoy going to the gym so often and as much as i like compound exercises, i like training more bodybuilding style just as much. besides, does it make sense to go on a strength program when cutting? also i'd have to lower my macros even more since i'd exercise less, right? wouldn't it be much more beneficial if i did the program when i start my reverse diet/bulk?

Just wanted to chime in on training real quick...

I know training compound exercises each workout can get a little tough, but training like this is the best thing a beginner can do, whether they are trying to strictly be a bodybuilder, or they are trying to improve strength, or both.

Plus, you should still focus on strength during a cut because that's what helps you keep your muscle! The improvements you will see in your physique on one of those programs over just going to the gym and doing your own thing will be drastic. You make the choice.