Reply
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3
Results 61 to 72 of 72
  1. #61
    Registered User kissdadookie's Avatar
    Join Date: Feb 2013
    Location: New York, New York, United States
    Age: 38
    Posts: 17,010
    Rep Power: 91714
    kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000)
    kissdadookie is offline
    Originally Posted by Terrimonas View Post
    Quantitatively de novo lipogenesis from amino acids doesn't go through TCA -> gluconeogenesis -> glucose -> released from the liver? -> taken back up by the liver? -> glycolysis -> TCA -> DNL. All that is necessary is for it to end up as acetyl-CoA via being metabolized to a TCA intermediate, pyruvate, etc... during its first pass.
    So, the limitation of protein ending up stored as body fat is the inefficiency of gluconeogensis for amino acids? Actual question, not trying to be confrontational

    edit: looking into the TCA cycle
    Last edited by kissdadookie; 03-20-2015 at 05:32 PM.
    Completed Logs & Reviews:
    Clear Muscle Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161906833&p=1244983053#post1244983053

    "Now that you've got a basic degree of strength you can now proceed with success onto a bodybuilding type program - which I am not experienced in providing. You've exceeded what I focus on, and that is beginner strength gains." - Mark Rippetoe
    Reply With Quote

  2. #62
    Registered User acecombact1's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2004
    Posts: 1,441
    Rep Power: 1619
    acecombact1 is just really nice. (+1000) acecombact1 is just really nice. (+1000) acecombact1 is just really nice. (+1000) acecombact1 is just really nice. (+1000) acecombact1 is just really nice. (+1000) acecombact1 is just really nice. (+1000) acecombact1 is just really nice. (+1000) acecombact1 is just really nice. (+1000) acecombact1 is just really nice. (+1000) acecombact1 is just really nice. (+1000) acecombact1 is just really nice. (+1000)
    acecombact1 is offline
    Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    The post I responded to suggested that overconsumption of protein will lead to fat gain. Do you not read? Apparently not.

    This study was interesting as well. This is with a sedentary population. They fed the high protein group a diet that was double the recommended protein intake based on body weight. Hypercaloric diets I believe. The high protein group actually gained lean mass, fat gain was similar for all groups in the study. So this suggests that the high protein group was not consuming adequate protein to begin with.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...7/?tool=pubmed

    Effect of low carbohydrate high protein (LCHP) diet on lipid metabolism, liver and kidney function in rats.
    Kostogrys RB1, Franczyk-Żarów M2, Maślak E3, Topolska K4.


    Abstract

    The objective of this study was to compare effects of Western diet (WD) with low carbohydrate high protein (LCHP) diet on lipid metabolism, liver and In conclusion, Low carb high protein diet decreased animal's body weight and decreased TAG in rat's serum. However, kidney damage in high protein rats was observed..........
    Reply With Quote

  3. #63
    Registered User kissdadookie's Avatar
    Join Date: Feb 2013
    Location: New York, New York, United States
    Age: 38
    Posts: 17,010
    Rep Power: 91714
    kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000)
    kissdadookie is offline
    Originally Posted by acecombact1 View Post
    Effect of low carbohydrate high protein (LCHP) diet on lipid metabolism, liver and kidney function in rats.
    Kostogrys RB1, Franczyk-Żarów M2, Maślak E3, Topolska K4.


    Abstract

    The objective of this study was to compare effects of Western diet (WD) with low carbohydrate high protein (LCHP) diet on lipid metabolism, liver and In conclusion, Low carb high protein diet decreased animal's body weight and decreased TAG in rat's serum. However, kidney damage in high protein rats was observed..........
    You're now jumping on to a different topic. Follow along in the thread.
    Completed Logs & Reviews:
    Clear Muscle Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161906833&p=1244983053#post1244983053

    "Now that you've got a basic degree of strength you can now proceed with success onto a bodybuilding type program - which I am not experienced in providing. You've exceeded what I focus on, and that is beginner strength gains." - Mark Rippetoe
    Reply With Quote

  4. #64
    Registered User acecombact1's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2004
    Posts: 1,441
    Rep Power: 1619
    acecombact1 is just really nice. (+1000) acecombact1 is just really nice. (+1000) acecombact1 is just really nice. (+1000) acecombact1 is just really nice. (+1000) acecombact1 is just really nice. (+1000) acecombact1 is just really nice. (+1000) acecombact1 is just really nice. (+1000) acecombact1 is just really nice. (+1000) acecombact1 is just really nice. (+1000) acecombact1 is just really nice. (+1000) acecombact1 is just really nice. (+1000)
    acecombact1 is offline
    Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    You're now jumping on to a different topic. Follow along in the thread.
    Amino acid catbolisim 101

    broken amino acids must first pass out of organelles and cells into blood circulation via amino acid transporters, since the amine and carboxylic acid groups are typically ionized. Degradation of an amino acid, occurring in the liver and kidneys, often involves deamination by moving its amino group to alpha-ketoglutarate, forming glutamate.

    Amino acid degradation produce uric acid or ammonia . After removal of one or more amino groups, the remainder of the molecule can sometimes be used to synthesize new amino acids, or it can be used for energy by entering glycolysis or the citric acid cycle.


    Using amino acid for glycolsis then glucogenesis is a long loop, and is not the preferred root for the body. But you can see why its taxing for the kidneys
    Reply With Quote

  5. #65
    Registered User kissdadookie's Avatar
    Join Date: Feb 2013
    Location: New York, New York, United States
    Age: 38
    Posts: 17,010
    Rep Power: 91714
    kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) kissdadookie has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000)
    kissdadookie is offline
    Originally Posted by acecombact1 View Post
    Amino acid catbolisim 101

    broken amino acids must first pass out of organelles and cells into blood circulation via amino acid transporters, since the amine and carboxylic acid groups are typically ionized. Degradation of an amino acid, occurring in the liver and kidneys, often involves deamination by moving its amino group to alpha-ketoglutarate, forming glutamate.

    Amino acid degradation produce uric acid or ammonia . After removal of one or more amino groups, the remainder of the molecule can sometimes be used to synthesize new amino acids, or it can be used for energy by entering glycolysis or the citric acid cycle.


    Using amino acid for glycolsis then glucogenesis is a long loop, and is not the preferred root for the body. But you can see why its taxing for the kidneys
    That's good info. Thanks, was in the middle of looking at the gluconeogensis and TCA cycle after terrimonas brought it up, so the above was helpful.

    Protein being good or bad on the kidneys though, still a different topic that diverts from the whole does protein build muscle and does it significantly add to body fat if overconsumed discussion though.
    Completed Logs & Reviews:
    Clear Muscle Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161906833&p=1244983053#post1244983053

    "Now that you've got a basic degree of strength you can now proceed with success onto a bodybuilding type program - which I am not experienced in providing. You've exceeded what I focus on, and that is beginner strength gains." - Mark Rippetoe
    Reply With Quote

  6. #66
    evidence based poster Terrimonas's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2013
    Location: Chillin in, Snap City, Antarctica
    Posts: 3,459
    Rep Power: 18309
    Terrimonas is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Terrimonas is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Terrimonas is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Terrimonas is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Terrimonas is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Terrimonas is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Terrimonas is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Terrimonas is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Terrimonas is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Terrimonas is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Terrimonas is a splendid one to behold. (+10000)
    Terrimonas is offline
    Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    So, the limitation of protein ending up stored as body fat is the inefficiency of gluconeogensis for amino acids? Actual question, not trying to be confrontational

    edit: looking into the TCA cycle
    Gluconeogensis isn't exactly the most efficient process to begin with. But in the fed state, the elevated insulin regulates and reduces the flux through the pathway. In the fasted state, flux through the pathway is accelerated and it works fine with amino acids.

    It's the process of getting the amino acid carbon skeletons into and through the TCA cycle in the mitochondria to eventually end up as Acetyl-CoA in the cytosol for use in fatty acid synthesis which is inefficient and non-preferred.
    Last edited by Terrimonas; 03-20-2015 at 06:43 PM.
    Reply With Quote

  7. #67
    GET COMPLETE! TheFugitive's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2007
    Location: Chicago, Illinois, United States
    Posts: 41,460
    Rep Power: 716810
    TheFugitive has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) TheFugitive has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) TheFugitive has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) TheFugitive has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) TheFugitive has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) TheFugitive has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) TheFugitive has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) TheFugitive has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) TheFugitive has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) TheFugitive has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) TheFugitive has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    TheFugitive is offline
    So, are we still drinking protein shakes
    BPI Sports - Forum Director - stevej@bpisports.net

    BMBC - Master Level - Worldwide

    Original 999,999k Crew

    BCAAs Bring all the Boys to the Yard
    Reply With Quote

  8. #68
    STEP YOUR FUNDS UP Neopragmatist's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2008
    Posts: 5,353
    Rep Power: 14720
    Neopragmatist is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Neopragmatist is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Neopragmatist is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Neopragmatist is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Neopragmatist is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Neopragmatist is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Neopragmatist is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Neopragmatist is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Neopragmatist is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Neopragmatist is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Neopragmatist is a splendid one to behold. (+10000)
    Neopragmatist is offline
    lol at these armchair surgeons....this is the only pubmed that matters:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1121900/
    i take it for granted that no hearer of mine will misinterpret what I have to say as the language of cynicism
    Reply With Quote

  9. #69
    GET COMPLETE! TheFugitive's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2007
    Location: Chicago, Illinois, United States
    Posts: 41,460
    Rep Power: 716810
    TheFugitive has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) TheFugitive has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) TheFugitive has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) TheFugitive has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) TheFugitive has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) TheFugitive has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) TheFugitive has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) TheFugitive has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) TheFugitive has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) TheFugitive has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) TheFugitive has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    TheFugitive is offline
    Originally Posted by Neopragmatist View Post
    lol at these armchair surgeons....this is the only pubmed that matters:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1121900/
    Lulz
    BPI Sports - Forum Director - stevej@bpisports.net

    BMBC - Master Level - Worldwide

    Original 999,999k Crew

    BCAAs Bring all the Boys to the Yard
    Reply With Quote

  10. #70
    Registered User Musicman23's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2015
    Age: 50
    Posts: 1
    Rep Power: 0
    Musicman23 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    Musicman23 is offline

    Amino acids

    Originally Posted by acecombact1 View Post
    I understand....nutrients in general including all macros are needed for lifters to build muscle. Fats happen to be one of them.

    Saying protein builds muscle is simply a false statement.
    Amino acids are the building blocks of muscle. Without them, well just don't be without them. Just eating protein is not the best way to build muscle but many people who build muscle cut as many carbs from their diet as possible on a regular basis. Actually carbohydrates are not essential as the body can make carbs from other sources in your body. You can build muscle without carbs. Source: Jim Stoppani
    Reply With Quote

  11. #71
    Registered User Gls133's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2015
    Age: 59
    Posts: 534
    Rep Power: 3803
    Gls133 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Gls133 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Gls133 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Gls133 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Gls133 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Gls133 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Gls133 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Gls133 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Gls133 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Gls133 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Gls133 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500)
    Gls133 is offline
    Originally Posted by Synapsin View Post
    I'm starting to think the collective IQ of the supp section is decreasing the more and more I see these ridiculous arguments.
    Repped
    Reply With Quote

  12. #72
    Registered User Gls133's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2015
    Age: 59
    Posts: 534
    Rep Power: 3803
    Gls133 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Gls133 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Gls133 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Gls133 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Gls133 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Gls133 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Gls133 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Gls133 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Gls133 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Gls133 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Gls133 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500)
    Gls133 is offline
    Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    Wut?

    Did you not look at the study that was (iirc) published last year in which it was demonstrated that excess calories coming from protein actually did not increase body fat? That study essentially supported the long standing understanding that gluconeogenesis of protein is an incredibly inefficient process, and let's not forget that would still require a further step to convert the sugar to TG to be stored.

    Whilst I agree, taking copious amounts of protein may not necessarily end up giving one more muscle development compared to a lower amount of protein (dependent on the amounts we are talking about of course), but it's false that getting excess calories mostly from protein will result in increased bodyfat.

    Here, I'll even help you out: http://www.jissn.com/content/11/1/19
    Solid explanation
    Reply With Quote

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts