View Poll Results: DO YOU ACCEPT JESUS'S GIFT OF SALVATION, BELIEVING HE DIED ON THE CROSS N ROSE AGAIN?

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  • YES

    133 16.02%
  • NO

    354 42.65%
  • I ALREADY ACCEPTED JESUS CHRIST

    248 29.88%
  • OTHER

    95 11.45%
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  1. #91
    Registered User NicholasMango's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Candice_B View Post
    Wait why is there a new testament and we just turn a blind eye to the old testament?

    http://www.inquisitr.com/1525966/jes...ck-at-critics/

    Or just keep believing what your spoon fed.

    Here you go.

    http://www.ucg.org/booklet/jesus-chr...l-sources-con/


    Historical nonbiblical and nonchristian texts confirming Jesus existed.
    If you ask me to prove he is the Son of God...That is difficult. But he very clearly existed.
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  2. #92
    Registered User DrTynanol's Avatar
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    in on chritians converting to islam thread

    free internet access and 72 virgins
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  3. #93
    darko12 hacked my account Candice_B's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NicholasMango View Post
    Here you go.

    http://www.ucg.org/booklet/jesus-chr...l-sources-con/


    Historical nonbiblical and nonchristian texts confirming Jesus existed.
    If you ask me to prove he is the Son of God...That is difficult. But he very clearly existed.

    Okay lets just say he actually existed, which I do not agree.

    The issue is why for thousands of years many tribes and nations believed in Polytheism or Gentile/Pagan and once the pope took over created the Hell story to instill fear into natives. The church wanted spiritual control and influence. Do you remember the Catholic crusades

    Hmmmmm



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  4. #94
    Registered User NicholasMango's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Candice_B View Post
    Okay lets just say he actually existed, which I do not agree.

    The issue is why for thousands of years many tribes and nations believed in Polytheism or Gentile/Pagan and once the pope took over created the Hell story to instill fear into natives. The church wanted spiritual control and influence. Do you remember the Catholic crusades

    Hmmmmm
    Are you trying to argue the morality of a supernatural being killing his own creations? Lol.

    Graphic not even accurate. Satan and God both work through people.

    Also. Do you even history?

    The first crusade was an European answer to a byzantium cry for help. The Seijuk Turks were invading the byzantines.



    To be clear. I subscribe to a literally interpretation of the Bible. And I hold it as a standard of morality and truth.
    I do not believe God's actions require any defense.
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  5. #95
    R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution ppself's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Candice_B View Post
    Okay lets just say he actually existed, which I do not agree.

    The issue is why for thousands of years many tribes and nations believed in Polytheism or Gentile/Pagan and once the pope took over created the Hell story to instill fear into natives. The church wanted spiritual control and influence. Do you remember the Catholic crusades

    Hmmmmm



    One person has the right to execute the guilty. The other doesn't.

    God placed his judgement upon the guilty. Satan murdered.
    "Don't be envious when the grass is greener on the other side because you don't know how much crap it took to fertilize that ground.�

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  6. #96
    Registered User NicholasMango's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ppself View Post
    One person has the right to execute the guilty. The other doesn't.

    God placed his judgement upon the guilty. Satan murdered.
    Thank you.
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  7. #97
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    Originally Posted by ppself View Post
    One person has the right to execute the guilty. The other doesn't.

    God placed his judgement upon the guilty. Satan murdered.
    in 4 the lord giveth and taketh away. in 4 satan killed us all with the forbidden fruit. god can kill satan if he wanted but doesn't. completely irrational
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  8. #98
    Registered User NicholasMango's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shiimoney View Post
    in 4 the lord giveth and taketh away. in 4 satan killed us all with the forbidden fruit. god can kill satan if he wanted but doesn't. completely irrational

    God created the forbidden fruit. Wut wut?
    God isn't going to kill Satan anymore than he is going to kill other sinners. They just go to hell on the day of judgement.
    God doesn't micromanage earth. He can help if people ask for it. But sometimes the answer is "Tough it out." Someones he has mini days of judgement. (Flood. Sodom and Gamorrah. That sudden heart attack no one can explain<---maybe. I dunno) But mostly God lets us make our own choices.
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  9. #99
    AyyyyLMAO Celsus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
    TOLEDOTH YESHU: (6 Century)
    This is a derogatory version of the life of Jesus, growing out of the response of the Jewish community to Christianity. The tradition presented here is most commonly dated to approximately the 6th century CE. The text it self is closer to the 14th century.
    Mentions the empty tomb and that the Jewish leaders found it empty. That Jesus was crucified on the eve of the Passover and that He claimed to be God. That Jesus performed sorcery, he healed, and that he taught Rabbis. All of this from a hostile source, with the references above it is a historical fact that Jesus did miracles. His enemies could not refute it, rather they explained it away as sorcery!
    CELSUS: (2nd Century)
    Criticizes the Gospels, unknowingly reinforces the authors and the content, he alludes to 80 different quotes in the Bible. Admits that the miracles of Jesus were generally believed in the 2nd century.
    JULIAN THE APOSTATE: (332-363 A.D.)[/FONT][/SIZE]
    Emperor of Rome mentions the Gospels, miracles and other facts about Jesus. Julian had struggled to end the power of Christians in the Roman Empire. Since the day fifty years earlier that Constantine conquered in the sign of the cross, Christian influence had steadily grown. As Julian lay dying from a mortal wound he made the following remark:
    As he bled, the dying emperor groaned, You have conquered, O Galilean, referring to Jesus Christ.[/SIZE][/FONT]
    CLEMENT OF ROME: (100 A.D.)
    Clement affirms the Resurrection, Gospels and that Jesus was sent to earth by God to take away our sins.
    Clement was the fourth bishop of Rome, the first being Peter. Did he know Peter and Paul? It is completely possible that those two Spirit-filled men taught him. Clement even wrote a letter to the Corinthian church that echoed the teachings of the apostles.
    IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH: (50-107 A.D.)
    Disciple of the apostles Peter, Paul, and John, who was martyred for his faith in Jesus. He was obviously convinced that Jesus really had lived and that Jesus was all that the apostles has said He was.
    nearness to the sword is nearness to God; to be among the wild beasts is to be in the arms of God; only let it be in the name of Jesus Christ. I endure all things that I may suffer together with him, since he who became perfect man strengthens meWe have not only to be called Christians, but to be Christians.
    While the emperor Trajan was on a visit to Asia Minor, he arrested Ignatius. When the bishop confessed his faith in Christ, the Emperor sent him in chains to Rome to die. He was hustled to the arena at once and thrown to two fierce lions who immediately devoured him.
    QUADRATUS: (125 A.D.)
    Bishop of Athens and a disciple of the apostles. Church historian Eusebius has preserved the only work that we have from Quadratus.
    The deeds of our Savior were always before you, for they were true miracles; those that were healed, those that were raised from the dead, who were seen, not only when healed and when raised, but were always present. They remained living a long time, not only whilst our Lord was on earth, but likewise when he had left the earth. So that some of them have also lived in our times.
    Eusebius, IV, III
    EPISTLE OF BARNABAS: (130-38 A.D.)
    Mentions the Resurrection, miracles, content of the Gospels and the crucifixion of Jesus.
    ARISTIDES: (138-161 A.D.)[/FONT][/SIZE]
    Aristides was a second-century Christian believer and philosopher from Athens. This portion of his defense of Christianity was addressed to the Roman Emperor Antonius Pius, who reigned from 138-161 A.D.
    The Son of the most high God, revealed by the Holy Spirit, descended from heaven, born of a Hebrew Virgin. His flesh he received from the Virgin, and he revealed himself in the human nature as the Son of God. In his goodness which brought the glad tidings, he has won the whole world by his life-giving preachingHe selected twelve apostles and taught the whole world by his mediatorial, light-giving truth.
    And he was crucified, being pierced with nails by the Jews; and he rose from the dead and ascended to heaven. He sent the apostles into all the world and instructed all by divine miracles full of wisdom. Their preaching bears blossoms and fruits to this day, and calls the whole world to illumination.
    Carey, Aristides, 68.
    JUSTIN MARTYR(106-167 A.D.)
    Justin Martyr is regarded as one of the greatest early Christian apologists. He was born around 100 A.D and was beheaded for his faith in Jesus in 167 A.D. He mentions as facts many things about Jesus and Christianity, such as: The Magi (wise men who brought gifts from Arabia), King Herod, His crucifixion, His garments parted among the Roman soldiers, the apostles leaving him on the night of his arrest, his fulfilled prophecies, His resurrection and His ascending into heaven among many others. These quotes can be found in his debate with Trypho the Jew
    HEGESIPPUS]: (2 Century)
    Eusebius draws the conclusion that Hegesippus was a Jew that wrote five books called, Memoirs. Only fragments remain of his original work in the writings of Eusebius. They show that Hegesippus traveled extensively trying to determine if the stories of Jesus and the apostles were true. He found that they were accurate, even in the troubled church in Corinth.
    The Corinthian church continued in the true doctrine until Primus became bishop. I mixed with them on my voyage to Rome and spent several days with the Corinthians, during which we were refreshed with the true doctrine. On arrival at Rome I pieced together the succession down to Anicetus, whose deacon was Eleutherus, Anicetus being succeeded by Soter and he by Eleutherus. In every line of bishops and in every city things accord with the preaching of the Law, the Prophets, and the Lord.
    Eusebius, The History of the Church, 9.22.2.
    TRAJAN: (53-117 A.D.)
    Trajan is a Roman Emperor who wrote a letter [see letter] in response to the Governor of Asia Minor, Pliny the Younger. Pliny needed advice in dealing with Christians who renounced their belief in Jesus due to fear of torture and execution.
    MACROBIUS: (4th-5th Century)
    Pascal (Pensees) mentions a quote of Augustus Caesar as an evidence to the murder of the 7-20 male babies (this is based on the population of Bethlehem in 4-6 B.C., which was 700-1,000 people) by King Herod in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:16).
    King Herod heard that a king was to be born and his fear and mental instability caused him to kill these male children under two years of age. King Herod killed his Wife, mother in law, and three sons. This is in character with his life of murder and paranoia. King Herods reign was described by his enemies as, He stole to the throne like a fox, ruled like a tiger, and died like a dog.
    Saturnalia, lib. 2, ch.4.
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  10. #100
    True Alpha fnck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AMinuss View Post
    the whole beileve in religion thing from rose glasses isnt true for me. nor is it true for many people converting everyday at an alarming rate. islam is on pace to becoming #1 religion world wide.

    god created man with free will, and inserted in him desires.

    you have a chance right now, until the day you die or until the day the sun rises from the west. this is plenty of time for you to seek out the truth for yourself. ask a scholar bring him a list of all your questions.

    history and science only support the quran. theory of evolution for example was refuted and is actually a baseless theory. A theory which only darwin used as a standpoint to help mesure his findings not an actually legitimate theory. says it himself go read charles darwin origin of species.
    ,
    the quran is a book of facts always was always will be. if you've never read it. you ca'T have an opinion only makes sense right ?

    go read it for yourself man you are doing yourself a huge disservice.
    Your ignorance is funny and sad at the same time. I truly am sad that parents think they can brainwash their children, like you, into a world in which religion is the only relevant thing. You say that you look at things unbiased, but that is definitely not true. If you did, you would trust the massive amounts of evidence for something like evolution. You've been told your whole life that it's been refuted and is baseless, but that is so far beyond untrue that I can even explain to your how untrue that is. You THINK it's baseless because that is what your book, parents, and religion in general has told you. And you can't argue with your religion because it's the only thing you know.

    Also, it is growing at pretty fast rate, but that doesn't mean anything. Christianity has had a faster growth rate than Islam for a very long time. That doesn't mean that Christianity is any more correct than Islam.

    And, regardless of what God did, he still phucked up creating humans. He tried making them perfect, sinless, etc, but he phucked up. Your all powerful creator did something wrong. Free will, desires, it doesn't matter. He's God, he could have made us sinless. He's all powerful, remember?

    This explains it pretty well in a Biblical sense, but the same basic foundations apply to Islam as well: http://www.evilbible.com/Impossible.htm

    And...please don't ever say that science supports the Quran. It doesn't. Not even a little bit. Again, you are blatantly showing your ignorance. You think it has, but that is only because in the closed little world of religion that you live in, it seems like it does.

    Have you ever read the Bible? The Torah scrolls? The Book of Morman? Have you been educated on Ancient Greek religion? Do you know of Ra, the all mighty Sun-God?

    If you haven't read and fully understand all of those, then by your own logic, you can't be Islamic! How do you know that one of those religions aren't correct? What about Buddhism?

    My point is, again, you don't know anything outside of your little religion box, where everything is perfect and nothing contradicts your horrendous religion. Yet, even inside of your own religion, there are so many discrepancies and problems that even your religion has different sects and beliefs. If it was truly a book in which everything was the truth and nothing could be misrepresented, than there would be no Sunnis (in which, again, there are even more denominations under this), Shias, Kharijites, etc etc. There would be no war in the Middle East between neighboring denominations of the religion like there is now.

    Look outside of your box. You're the only one doing yourself a "huge disservice".
    Last edited by fnck; 01-20-2015 at 04:23 PM.
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  11. #101
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    Made me happy seeing that "already accepted Jesus Christ" was the most popular vote.
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  12. #102
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    How da fuk did this thread from the 1400s end up in 2015?
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    Originally Posted by shiimoney View Post
    in 4 the lord giveth and taketh away. in 4 satan killed us all with the forbidden fruit. god can kill satan if he wanted but doesn't. completely irrational
    You're statement is irrational. "Kill" and "Murder" are two different concepts. One is an lawful act and the other is not. You are using "Kill" in both contexts, execution and murderous.

    Plus you don't make any sense. :P
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    Are you ready? "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.� (John 8:24).
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  14. #104
    darko12 hacked my account Candice_B's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ppself View Post
    One person has the right to execute the guilty. The other doesn't.

    God placed his judgement upon the guilty. Satan murdered.
    TOTAL BS Satan was the bringer of knowledge, he wanted all humans to be able decide for themselves with the truth. Yahweh wanted to keep humans dumb and blind. That is why in the story he banished Adam and Eve from the Garden. Why would God want to keep Man and Woman Blind and uninformed? For his own amusement?
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    Originally Posted by Candice_B View Post
    TOTAL BS Satan was the bringer of knowledge, he wanted all humans to be able decide for themselves with the truth. Yahweh wanted to keep humans dumb and blind. That is why in the story he banished Adam and Eve from the Garden. Why would God want to keep Man and Woman Blind and uninformed? For his own amusement?
    Sigh. You talk as if you failed Sunday School.

    How can Satan be the "Bringer of knowledge" when Adam named every living creature in the garden before eating the apple? Adam even had walking conversations with God in the garden. Presupposing that Adam had VAST knowledge. And Adam didn't lie during this point, so he was already determining truth. On his own. Without the manipulation of sin. In fact. Scripture says that we are slaves of sin. So even now. We can't really decide for ourselves, because of that sinful nature.

    You didn't even contest my statement. You threw some statement that shows you can't think logically or you really have never, ever, read or heard of Genesis.
    "Don't be envious when the grass is greener on the other side because you don't know how much crap it took to fertilize that ground.�

    Are you ready? "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.� (John 8:24).
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    darko12 hacked my account Candice_B's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ppself View Post
    Sigh. You talk as if you failed Sunday School.

    How can Satan be the "Bringer of knowledge" when Adam named every living creature in the garden before eating the apple? Adam even had walking conversations with God in the garden. Presupposing that Adam had VAST knowledge. And Adam didn't lie during this point, so he was already determining truth. On his own. Without the manipulation of sin. In fact. Scripture says that we are slaves of sin. So even now. We can't really decide for ourselves, because of that sinful nature.

    You didn't even contest my statement. You threw some statement that shows you can't think logically or you really have never, ever, read or heard of Genesis.
    Before you get too ahead of yourself, why did God tempt or allow the forbidden fruit to be in the garden?

    Sounds like god is either sadistic as you would blame Satan yourself for allowing such acts. Or a much more plausible idea is that God doesn't have the control he suggests, Enki who gifted man with Knowledge like the age we are in Aquarius, Yes we are leaving the age of Pisces or Jesus age. Just look it up. Its all out there. The jesus age or piscean way was that of the pope, renaissance. The age of Aquarius or information age started around the end of the 30s and is starting to gain way decade after decade. Just look at the tech since then. First we had horse drawn carts and in the end of the 60s we were landing on the moon. Hell the internet is something the vatican would of eradicated just a Hundred or so years ago.

    Short story is you will be recycled.

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    Originally Posted by Candice_B View Post
    Before you get too ahead of yourself, why did God tempt or allow the forbidden fruit to be in the garden?
    God didn't tempt them. No where in scripture does it say he did.

    Why did he allow forbidden fruit in the garden? Because it's his garden and he can do whatever he please with it. Just like how he allowed Satan in there in the first place.

    The last thing God has done. Is restrict the freedoms of his creation. You are free to sin and disobey his commands. Of course. That doesn't negate the fact that there are consequences for those actions.
    "Don't be envious when the grass is greener on the other side because you don't know how much crap it took to fertilize that ground.�

    Are you ready? "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.� (John 8:24).
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    People are actually arguing about a fictional fairytale?
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    Originally Posted by ppself View Post
    God didn't tempt them. No where in scripture does it say he did.

    Why did he allow forbidden fruit in the garden? Because it's his garden and he can do whatever he please with it. Just like how he allowed Satan in there in the first place.

    The last thing God has done. Is restrict the freedoms of his creation. You are free to sin and disobey his commands. Of course. That doesn't negate the fact that there are consequences for those actions.
    Why are there sins? So Gods got a stenographer or police man with his pen in hand ready to write a ticket at the whim? BS, And if so called Jesus Died for our Sins then we can do no wrong and are completely pure? No? Oh just enthrall me with your explanation. A real God would have no qualms with sodomy, homosex, unmarried sex, Not converting, Believing in other Gods and Goddess... the list goes on. I hope every missionary gets murdered or eaten alive for proselyting religion. Religion is something you should go to not go door to door.
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    Gotta give the OP credit for sheer minded consistency in his trolling. He was under another username in the R&P section for years, think it was xxfroddobaggins, or something like that. His original 'How to get to heaven when you die' was going strong for like 6-7 years until he was banned for trolling.

    I'm sure the mods are having a laugh for one, keeping this thread in the Misc, and 2 for not banning this dude again lol
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  24. #114
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    Originally Posted by Candice_B View Post
    Why are there sins? So Gods got a stenographer or police man with his pen in hand ready to write a ticket at the whim? BS, And if so called Jesus Died for our Sins then we can do no wrong and are completely pure? No? Oh just enthrall me with your explanation. A real God would have no qualms with sodomy, homosex, unmarried sex, Not converting, Believing in other Gods and Goddess... the list goes on. I hope every missionary gets murdered or eaten alive for proselyting religion. Religion is something you should go to not go door to door.


    Coherent speech is not one of your strongest points, is it?
    "Don't be envious when the grass is greener on the other side because you don't know how much crap it took to fertilize that ground.�

    Are you ready? "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.� (John 8:24).
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  25. #115
    Registered User TheBroskii's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AMinuss View Post
    The only way to get to heaven is to accept the quran and teaching of muhammad peace be upon him. It is in your own bible that says to follow muhammad. also hindu scriptures jewish scriptueres etc...
    he was prophisized as the last and final messenger.


    Deuteronomy 18:15 ESV / 142 helpful votes

    The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothersit is to him you shall listen

    This verse clearly says from your brothers....Muhammad wasn't a Jew. Jesus was though.

    Isaiah 28:11King James Version (KJV)

    11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

    Another interpretation of this verse is... "So now God will have to speak to his people through foreign oppressors who speak a strange language"...and in the context of this verse it is pretty obvious that this is referring to the times in which Israel is under the jurisdiction of others such as the Roman government. In these times God will put them in their place for thinking they are better than the Gentiles.

    Isaiah 29:12 ESV / 141 helpful votes

    And when they give the book to one who cannot read, saying, Read this, he says, I cannot read. ( Look up prophet muhammad story and first revalation in the cave)

    I have no idea what this has to do with Muhammad. This whole chapter is about how the Lord will stand by Israel. He will let them be taken by their enemies yet let them succeed over their enemies in the end.

    John 16:13 ESV / 16 helpful votes

    When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
    i.e THE QURAN.

    When the heck did the Quran become a Spirit? You have to be kidding me. You are totally twisting the Scriptures around. This whole section is Jesus telling his disciples not to worry for when he leaves the Holy Spirit will be with them to guide them as he has.

    I dont understand, why are you rejecting islam. Christianity was for different people of different times. YOU WIL HAVE TO STAND BEFORE GOD AND ANSWER TO HIM.

    It saddens me that theres all this noise out there and people get caught up in it. Please if you have any questions pm me

    And Please seek knowledge for yourself. Because logically speaking, if there is enough evidence to something to atleast peak your curiosity enough to investigate wouldnt it be retarded of you not to atleast inquire about it. especially when the end result could mean your eternal life in torment or torture!!

    Please brothers im not asking you to convert to islam or anything. Im just asking you to seek out the truth for yourself Not wat feels comfortable to you at the moment.
    Look at what I said in bold. This guy hasn't actually done any real objective research about how the Bible supports Muhammad as the last prophet. These references are twisted and taken out of context.
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    Originally Posted by Pimpus View Post
    I used to argue with religious people quite often when I was a teen, it's completely pointless. All these retards know how to do is quote scripture, any intelligent point you make will be ignored. Just a bunch of useless brainwashed cattle. At least religion is a lot less prevalent than it used to be, hopefully this chit dies off in a hundred years or so.
    Post message me brah if you want real scientific and philosophical explains rather than a bunch of sob stories about how God saved me or how its in the Bible it must be true
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    Originally Posted by AMinuss View Post
    in regards to ur last post

    sorry man did not see this. anyway, while i do recognize some of these verses. you should take into consideration that allah, god, ''the father'', has left it in the jewish scriptures, bible etc.. for them to follow the new messenger i.e muhammed pbuh.

    because they fail to follow muhammad pbuh but rather reject him and fight him even though god has clearly warned them in their own scriptures not only the quran. this is why they are called disbeilevers. they are simply people who follow their own whims and desires. do you understand?

    i respect those scriptures i beileve there are some truths inside the bible and torah. but any real christian would understand that its time to follow the new messenger. and if not that not only did they disbelieve in the quran, theyve also disbelieved in the bible.

    this is why god is angry with the disbelievers.

    seek out more knowledge try to understand contextually what god is saying in his verses not just those ones that youve quoted but other ones also. and make sure they are all correct.

    get in touch with a scholar, sit down and talk ask him questions
    Why would any prophet of God do this...

    "But the majority of them soon became involved, with Muhammads sanction, in raiding the commercial Meccan caravans. The prophet himself led three such raids in the first year. Doubtless the purpose of these attacks was not only to obtain financial reward, but also to impress the Meccans with the growing power of the Muslim force" (Geisler and Saleeb 2002, p.79)

    Then say God said it was okay. Muhammad may have had an initial revelation from Gabriel. But he fell off his rocker. He killed people to maintain political power and preached death to those who did not believe in his words.
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    Registered User TheBroskii's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fnck View Post
    I was a "Christian" for the first 16 years of my life. I even went to a Christian school when I was younger. I still have all of my books and stuff. I know all about religion. That's why it is so easy for me to debunk any Christians. I know the basics behind Islam as well, and it isn't too hard to debunk that cult, either.

    The only misinformed person here is you. You've spent your whole life only believing and trusting in this one source. You've been told your whole life that your religion is the only thing that truly matters. I understand that it's hard to break free from that mind control. I'm sure that you legitimately can't even imagine a life in which religion is not in it.

    You need to think for yourself. You say you've "done your research", but I'm sure you've always done it through unreliable sources, didn't understand it, or you were looking at it through rose-colored glasses, meaning that put religion in front of all of the evidence. And then you wonder why none of it makes sense.

    And my point in the previous comment was that God meant to make perfect humans, but phucked up. At least, that is the way it was in the Bible. Satan saw that humans were not perfect, why couldn't God. Yada yada Satan tries to dethrone God and is sent to Hell to suffer for eternity, yada yada.

    But, if God is a perfect being that is capable of anything, why couldn't he make perfect humans?

    And you failed to address my other statement. If God/Allah loves us so much, why is he more than content sending us to hell for eternity just because we didn't live our 70 years on Earth as he specified we do. And how does that even make sense? The 70 years we have on Earth dictates how we will live for the rest of eternity? God/Allah obviously knows that there's some reasonable discrepancies regarding religion down here on Earth, why is he punishing 80% of his "children" without giving them a second chance?

    There's so much wrong with the philosophy behind religion. There's even more wrong when it tries to collide with science and history.
    I agree with you. This poor guy hasn't been able to take off those rose colored glasses and actually do real research. On the other hand, I'd like to say I've been able to. I want to try and attempt to explain why God created a man who as you have said is not "perfect."

    First, let me define perfect. For something, let us call this A, to be perfect A must be outside the combination of space and time. Within space and time, change occurs. Kind of like how the change in X is over a period of time (hope that makes sense). However, for A to be perfect it cannot change. If A changes then it wasn't perfect to begin with. To be perfect A must also be eternal. Since A is never changing it cannot be created (that would require change). There cannot be a beginning or an end to A. A must remain the same forever. A must also be indestructible because if it could be destroyed or damaged it would not be perfect. (I could say more but I think this should make the definition of perfect clear.)

    Based on the following definition of perfect, God could not create a "perfect" man since nothing which is created can be perfect. This is an inherent flaw we must have built into us in the universe God created. If God somehow created something perfect it would be on par with God. This imperfect is called the will. We have the will to follow what is inherent to us or to search out and discover new things.

    Let's use the Garden of Eden since most people know this story. Adam was place in a Garden being told he could eat of all the fruits of the Garden except for the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. There was nothing special about this tree. However, what is special is that we were created like all other animals with things we find inherent to us. We, animals and humans, are born with what I call instinct. But unlike the other animals, we have the ability to reason. Since animals cannot reason, but solely be conditioned they cannot expand upon the inherent freedoms they have to do certain things. For example it was inherent to Adam to eat of most the fruit in the Garden, however, Satan reasoned with Adam to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. This tree didn't give him magical powers but it was the first instance when his freedom was expanded beyond what he was born with.....

    my fingers are getting tired but if anyone actually finds what im saying interesting I will elaborate.

    P.S. For anyone curious I believe in evolution and I'm a Christian. I try my best to refrain from being ignorant so please challenge anything I have said or comment. I would love to hear what people have to say.
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    so no one has anything to say when I post...interesting
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    darko12 hacked my account Candice_B's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ppself View Post
    Coherent speech is not one of your strongest points, is it?
    Not addressing the lies the bible spews and avoiding it entirely is one of your strong points...
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