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  1. #1
    Registered User alexandagrigg's Avatar
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    fruit good or bad

    Im curious as to wether getting your carb intake from fruit rather than trafition carbs like brown rice and so forth is ok for muscle growth or is the natural sugars not good for you ?
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  2. #2
    Registered User bencarr95's Avatar
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    There is no reason to avoid fruit in my opinion. It's become a popular idea due to bro-science, but has no scientific backing. Fruit is chocked full of helpful vitamins and phytonutrients that are lacking in starchy carb sources like brown rice. They are full of fiber too, which helps you feel full.

    People are scared of fruits because they are typically high in sugar and people think sugar=automatic fat gain. This is illogical. A carbohydrate is a carbohydrate, whether simple (a single sugar molecule or two) or complex (multiple sugar molecules). Once digested, it will all be broken down into simple sugars as glucose, then go to be stored in muscle and the liver for energy as a complex carb (glycogen). Whether it started out as complex or simple is irrelevant.

    The fear of sugar and correlation with body fat is mainly because it is added in foods like sodas and candy. When this is the case, it is not accompanied with fiber so there is nothing to help you feel full, and no vitamins. This can lead to an overconsumption of calories. As I stated before, this is not the case with fruit.

    Another caveat people have with sugar is the fact that it contains fructose. Fructose is more liver soluble and thus is likely to be stored there instead of in the muscle. This is also of no worry, as the concentration of fructose in fruit is relatively minuscule for any negative effects. Furthermore, even if it is to be stored in the liver, that does not mean that it will simply go to fat afterwards. It will release into the bloodstream and be up taken by the muscles at the cue of insulin.

    Lastly, people stress over the glycemic index of foods a bit. Since fruits are high in sugar, people associate them with a high GI. While I won't go into why I don't stress over GI, I will say that the majority of fruits (aside from watermelon) are of a low or moderate GI, so there is no need to fear.

    Eat fruit. It's healthy and its consumption is correlated with a lower level of body fat.
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  3. #3
    Chasing cats since 1967 WonderPug's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alexandagrigg View Post
    Im curious as to wether getting your carb intake from fruit rather than trafition carbs like brown rice and so forth is ok for muscle growth or is the natural sugars not good for you ?
    Your post implies an extreme confusion about the most basic aspects of nutrition.

    To start learning the basics about nutrition, please read the relevant stickies at the top of the nutrition forum as well as this:



    COMPOSING A RATIONAL DIET

    Advice on diet and nutrition is often based on myths and, even more so, on the marketing message of supplement companies and self-proclaimed diet gurus with agendas contrary to your interests. Please don't allow yourself, your health, your fitness goals or your wallet to be compromised by the prevalent misinformation. Learn the basics of nutrition and start engaging in healthy, rational dietary habits that can last a lifetime.

    The first step is to discard biased advice on nutrition and diet, and, in its place, embrace simple logic:

    Compose a diet that ensures micronutrient and macronutrient sufficiency, derived predominantly from whole and minimally processed foods if possible, with remaining caloric intake being largely discretionary within the bounds of common sense.



    Caloric Intake

    Energy balance is the primary dietary driver of body weight and it also impacts body composition. A chronic surplus of calories will result in increased body weight and a chronic deficit of calories will result in a loss of body weight.

    In other words, in order to gain about one pound of tissue weight (as opposed to transient flux in water weight), you need to consume a total of about 3,500 calories more than you expend. And to lose about one pound of tissue weight, you have to do the opposite -- consume about 3,500 calories less than you expend.

    Thus, the first step in constructing any rational diet is to get a sense of how many calories per day, on average, you should consume in order to progress towards your goals.

    The average number of calories you expend per day -- called total daily energy expenditure (TDEE) -- is a function of your basal metabolic rate (BMR) and your average weekly activity level.

    To estimate your BMR, it's important to have a sense of how much lean body mass (LBM) you carry. If you're not sure, post a photo or two and we can estimate your percentage body fat and, from this number and your total body weight, it's easy to estimate LBM by using the following formula:

    LBM = body weight * (1 - percentage body fat)

    To estimate BMR, use the the Katch-McArdle formula:

    BMR = 370 + (9.8 * LBM in pounds)
    or
    BMR = 370 + (21.6 * LBM in kg)

    The next step is to estimate average weekly activity using the following guidelines to calculate an activity factor (AF):


    • 1.1 - 1.2 = Sedentary (desk job, and little formal exercise, this will be most of you students)

    • 1.3 - 1.4 = Lightly Active (light daily activity and light exercise 1-3 days a week)

    • 1.5 - 1.6 = Moderately Active (moderately daily Activity & moderate exercise 3-5 days a week)

    • 1.7 - 1.8 = Very Active (physically demanding lifestyle & hard exercise 6-7 days a week)

    • 1.9 - 2.2 = Extremely Active (athletes in endurance training or very hard physical job)


    To estimate TDEE (the calories at which you will neither gain nor lose tissue weight), use the following formula:

    TDEE = BMR * AF

    Now that you've estimated your TDEE, it's important to refine that estimate empirically. To do so, consume an average amount of calories equal to estimated TDEE for two weeks, monitoring weight change. The results will confirm your actual TDEE.

    Once you know your actually TDEE, set your caloric intake to match your goals as follows:

    To maintain weight, consume an amount of calories equal to TDEE.
    To lose weight, consume 10% to 20% less than TDEE.
    To gain weight, consume 10% 20% more than TDEE.

    Monitor weight change via the scale and also body composition via the mirror and how clothing fits, making adjustments as needed biweekly.


    Macronutrient Intake

    Ensure that your intake of macronutrients meets sufficiency (as defined below), with remaining macronutrient composition of the diet being largely a function of personal preference.

    Ideally, ensure macronutrient sufficiency predominantly or, ideally, entirely from whole and minimally processed foods.

    Protein: ~0.6 to ~0.8 grams per pound of bodyweight (or target/ideal weight in the obese) -- the highest amount justified by research.

    Fat: ~0.45 grams per pound of bodyweight (or target/ideal weight in the obese) -- the lowest amount implied by clinical observation.

    Remaining caloric budget: whatever mix of macronutrients you prefer -- as implied by research.


    Micronutrient Intake

    Take care and use good judgement in food selection and portioning to ensure that micronutrient sufficiency is reached without excessive intake from dietary sources and/or supplements.

    As with macronutrient sufficiency, one should ensure micronutrient sufficiency predominantly or, ideally, entirely from whole and minimally processed foods.

    To get a good sense of recommended intake of vitamins and minerals, please review this USDA guidelines webpage.

    You'll find the following information particularly helpful:


    Meal Timing, Composition & Frequency

    The number of meals you consume, the timing of those meals and the macro/micronutrient composition of each meal is largely a function of personal preference.

    While it might be "optimal" to consume more than one meal per day and less than 5 meals per day, the simple truth is that any difference that directly results from such fine tuning is likely too small to notice even after years of training.

    Thus, base your meal timing, composition and frequency on your subjective preference such as to optimize your sense of energy, performance, satiety, palatability, convenience, social/business life and sustainability.

    Do not hesitate to very all three factors from day to day as circumstance dictates. In other words, do not become a slave to routine, with inflexibility compromising your quality of life.


    Pre & Post Workout Nutrition

    What (if anything) you consume before and after your workout does not play a significant direct role in the outcome of your diet, beyond personal preference.

    Why? Because what matters in terms of direct impact on outcomes is total daily intake of all nutrients.

    Thus, you should optimize based on how you respond to training in a fed or fasted state, and based on your hungry after exercise. In other words, use common sense.


    Supplements

    Supplements are just that, products that are intended to supplement deficiencies in your diet. If your diet is properly composed then there's no need or unique benefit to using supplements.

    If your diet isn't properly composed and, thus, you have deficiencies, try to fix your diet to cure such deficiencies though the consumption of whole and minimally processed foods. If you can't fix your diet, then use the lowest dose supplement(s) needed to cure any remaining deficiencies.

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  4. #4
    Common sense/moderation. gbullock32's Avatar
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    Only bad thing I have noticed with fruit is it costs me a lot of money, love my fruit though.
    Short cuts to success are often paved with lies.
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  5. #5
    Theres a toll in the hall SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Too much will give you the sh!ts. But as part of varied diet, I say thumbs up.
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  6. #6
    Registered User Bastiat's Avatar
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    fruit has carbs, carbs arent the enemy. fruit has LOTS of micronutrients, micros are your friend.

    I go through alot of fruit.
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  7. #7
    Chasing cats since 1967 WonderPug's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bastiat View Post
    fruit has carbs, carbs arent the enemy. fruit has LOTS of micronutrients, micros are your friend.

    I go through alot of fruit.
    FYI: Most fruit is actually very low in micronutrient content per calorie.
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  8. #8
    Registered User thinkgreen's Avatar
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    Fruit is delicious. I always have bananas and some sort of berries in my fridge.
    Brevity is the soul of wit.
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  9. #9
    Registered User Bastiat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WonderPug View Post
    FYI: Most fruit is actually very low in micronutrient content per calorie.
    if we are comparing fruits to rice/bread/pasta then fruits, especially things like raspberries, blueberries, grapefruits and things like that are pretty good in the micro department. If you are comparing in general, then youre right, there are certainly more micronutrient dense foods out there.
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  10. #10
    Chasing cats since 1967 WonderPug's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bastiat View Post
    if we are comparing fruits to rice/bread/pasta then fruits, especially things like raspberries, blueberries, grapefruits and things like that are pretty good in the micro department. If you are comparing in general, then youre right, there are certainly more micronutrient dense foods out there.
    Animal matter and some vegetables are very nutrient dense.
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  11. #11
    Registered User Bastiat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WonderPug View Post
    Animal matter and some vegetables are very nutrient dense.
    like my spinach and kale salad topped with steak strips
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  12. #12
    Chasing cats since 1967 WonderPug's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bastiat View Post
    like my spinach and kale salad topped with steak strips
    That sounds perfect!
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  13. #13
    Tu papi Jasonk282's Avatar
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    it's neither...your overall diet is what matters, IMO.

    If all you eat is big Macs and large fries and have fruit for a 'snack' it's like tossing a deck chair off the Titanic, it's still gonna sink.
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  14. #14
    🅾🅼🅴🅶🅰 🆆🅴🅰🅿🅾🅽 EjnarKolinkar's Avatar
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    Fruit is not bad.

    Sensible intake is still sensible. When you start posing questions like "can I get all my x from y" in general you are heading off the trail into the woods.
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  15. #15
    Registered User alexandagrigg's Avatar
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    Cheers everyone for your thoughts and tips it sounds like I can keep fruit in my diet which is awesome cheers
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  16. #16
    Protein bar nightcap? desslok's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alexandagrigg View Post
    Cheers everyone for your thoughts and tips it sounds like I can keep fruit in my diet which is awesome cheers
    If you are really concerned about it, check out the section on Fruits here http://www.whfoods.com/foodstoc.php
    Plenty of good choices that are full of micronutrients as well as important phytonutrients.
    Superbus est, qui loquitur in prouerbiis Latinis.
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  17. #17
    Registered User KRich227's Avatar
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    I eat 2 bananas a day, and 1 serving of sliced apples a day. I love fruit.
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    Don't know why people wouldn't eat fruit. I religiously buy avocados, raspberries and blackberries. Those are my top choices.
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    Registered User GTmauf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bastiat View Post
    like my spinach and kale salad topped with steak strips
    #jelly - I just had my regular lettuce + chicken salad
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  20. #20
    Registered User GTmauf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bencarr95 View Post
    There is no reason to avoid fruit in my opinion. It's become a popular idea due to bro-science, but has no scientific backing. Fruit is chocked full of helpful vitamins and phytonutrients that are lacking in starchy carb sources like brown rice. They are full of fiber too, which helps you feel full.

    People are scared of fruits because they are typically high in sugar and people think sugar=automatic fat gain. This is illogical. A carbohydrate is a carbohydrate, whether simple (a single sugar molecule or two) or complex (multiple sugar molecules). Once digested, it will all be broken down into simple sugars as glucose, then go to be stored in muscle and the liver for energy as a complex carb (glycogen). Whether it started out as complex or simple is irrelevant.

    The fear of sugar and correlation with body fat is mainly because it is added in foods like sodas and candy. When this is the case, it is not accompanied with fiber so there is nothing to help you feel full, and no vitamins. This can lead to an overconsumption of calories. As I stated before, this is not the case with fruit.

    Another caveat people have with sugar is the fact that it contains fructose. Fructose is more liver soluble and thus is likely to be stored there instead of in the muscle. This is also of no worry, as the concentration of fructose in fruit is relatively minuscule for any negative effects. Furthermore, even if it is to be stored in the liver, that does not mean that it will simply go to fat afterwards. It will release into the bloodstream and be up taken by the muscles at the cue of insulin.

    Lastly, people stress over the glycemic index of foods a bit. Since fruits are high in sugar, people associate them with a high GI. While I won't go into why I don't stress over GI, I will say that the majority of fruits (aside from watermelon) are of a low or moderate GI, so there is no need to fear.

    Eat fruit. It's healthy and its consumption is correlated with a lower level of body fat.
    I'm lazy and tired right now so I won't hit on all the points, but there are a lot of caveats to some of the things you mentioned here and you're leaving out a decent amount of information. One being that not all carbs are the same. They can metabolize differently causing different affects.
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    Originally Posted by alexandagrigg View Post
    Im curious as to wether getting your carb intake from fruit rather than trafition carbs like brown rice and so forth is ok for muscle growth or is the natural sugars not good for you ?
    From what I read eating lots of fruit and vegetables should not cause problems. I think it is mostly people who have irritable bowel syndrome.

    Some times if I eat lots of fruit and vegetables in week I get gas and diarrhea. I'm not sure if other people are like that but it could be irritable bowel syndrome.
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    Fruits should be part of any sensible/balanced diet.

    See no reason to exclude it. Nature's candy.
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    There's so much variety in nutrition and taste that i can't imagine why anyone shouldn't eat fruit.
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    Originally Posted by alexandagrigg View Post
    Im curious as to wether getting your carb intake from fruit rather than trafition carbs like brown rice and so forth is ok for muscle growth or is the natural sugars not good for you ?
    If you want more simple carbs with micro nutrients then eat fruit. Fruits simple carbs are the same as table sugar sucrose and fructose.
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    Fruit is the best. Love bananas, papaya, strawberries...lots of other ones.
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    Fruits fine. There's a bit of a fad against it, but it's still one if the best carb channels you can get.
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    Originally Posted by WonderPug View Post
    FYI: Most fruit is actually very low in micronutrient content per calorie.
    Interestingly enough, have you seen any articles in regards to USDA food analysis comparing an apple from 1950 to 2000? The claim is that 1 apple around 1950 was way more nutrient dense than something like 26 apples today. Ignoring the 26 apples part, it turns out other fruits and veggies are greatly different than they once were. In short they are suggesting that our soils are not as fertile as they once were and despite our ability to increase yields, we are having a decrease in mineral composition, prompting certain people in the agricultural business to experiment with remineralization of the soil. I thought it was interesting to say the least.
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