Agmatine sulfate absolute zero effect for pump

[janism1]

Today I tried next pump supplement on my list everyone talk about it and seems popular agmatine sulfate (Core Nutritionals Agmatine Sulfate, 30 Grams )
I tried 1G suggested dosage 0.5-1.5G it was 2 1/2 H after breakfast and went to gym after 1H some in forum say they take it in empty stomach so I did in directions though it was told to use with food. Any input about this????
I did BB bicep curls weight 40KG 10X10 routine 90S rest
same as previous workout
previous result:
10,10,10,10,10,10,7,7,6,5
today
10,10,10,10,10,7,7,6,6,5
so today was even worse which could be explained that did not take any carbs protein before except what was in breakfast (whole grain pasta eggs ham cheese)
after failure with bicep curls went to drink some carbs and protein and then started squat session which was OK previous 75KG 5X5 now 80KG 5X5

so this is 2nd failure with popular pump supplement needless to say I'm very disappointed
Citrulline was same
forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=165163271

[Rushie]

Maybe there is no agmatine in their agmatine? Stranger things have happened.

Anyway, agmatine that I take usually works well for me.

[Rushie]

BTW I don't think you'd really feel the effects of citruline.

[Rob1882]

I have the best results with pump and pump supplements - eating about 2 hours or so pre workout with carbs and proteins. Could take both the Cit and Agmatine together.

Generally I get pretty low carbs daily, and most of my carbs are consumed pre and post workout.

[spoch]

I have the best results with pump and pump supplements - eating about 2 hours or so pre workout with carbs and proteins. Could take both the Cit and Agmatine together.

Generally I get pretty low carbs daily, and most of my carbs are consumed pre and post workout.

That's because the ONLY relevance to Agmatine being associated with any "pump" is because it night increase insulin sensitivity. Otherwise- ZERO PROOF it gives any type of pump at all.

[NEBinAK]

Like rob said I would try dosing them together both stack quite well

[BenBlue]

It sounds to me like you don't really know what to expect from a pump product, or your expectations are too high.

Having said that, Agmatine has next to no research proving there to be Nitric Oxide inhibiting effects. The only "proof" has been anecdotal at best. But if you didn't get a pump from Citrulline, then you either have way too high expectations, or you weren't dosing properly.

[Anthony21]

Today I tried next pump supplement on my list everyone talk about it and seems popular agmatine sulfate (Core Nutritionals Agmatine Sulfate, 30 Grams )
I tried 1G suggested dosage 0.5-1.5G it was 2 1/2 H after breakfast and went to gym after 1H some in forum say they take it in empty stomach so I did in directions though it was told to use with food. Any input about this????
I did BB bicep curls weight 40KG 10X10 routine 90S rest
same as previous workout
previous result:
10,10,10,10,10,10,7,7,6,5
today
10,10,10,10,10,7,7,6,6,5
so today was even worse which could be explained that did not take any carbs protein before except what was in breakfast (whole grain pasta eggs ham cheese)
after failure with bicep curls went to drink some carbs and protein and then started squat session which was OK previous 75KG 5X5 now 80KG 5X5

so this is 2nd failure with popular pump supplement needless to say I'm very disappointed
Citrulline was same
forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=165163271

I never was a fan of "pump products" as in my eyes they're a waste of money, just personal opinion.

I would just make sure to get a solid meal in you a couple hours before lifting & make sure you're well hydrated.

If you really feel the need for a temporary pump just add in some bulk carb source intra workout. You can get a 5lb tub of Dextrose for cheap and it'll last a chit ton longer. Plus it'll provide some endurance for your workouts as well.

[wheels30]

"Pump Products" lol - Just lol.

I cringe when people tell me there getting an amazing pump from a supplement when there is absolutely 0 back research studies that prove it. Placebo effect at its absolute best.

Biggest scam in the supplement industry.

Someone please prove me wrong if I am. Just please post research articles associated.

[janism1]

It sounds to me like you don't really know what to expect from a pump product, or your expectations are too high.

Having said that, Agmatine has next to no research proving there to be Nitric Oxide inhibiting effects. The only "proof" has been anecdotal at best. But if you didn't get a pump from Citrulline, then you either have way too high expectations, or you weren't dosing properly.

I'm not expecting to lift +50KG more after supplementing citrulliine but if I'm stalled with my routine and if there is not even 1R increase from 84R then how that is too much expectations? 5 reps more at least 7 10 but not zero. Dosing was more then enough ~8G of citrulline while none of pump products have that much ....

[janism1]

"Pump Products" lol - Just lol.

I cringe when people tell me there getting an amazing pump from a supplement when there is absolutely 0 back research studies that prove it. Placebo effect at its absolute best.

Biggest scam in the supplement industry.

Someone please prove me wrong if I am. Just please post research articles associated.

maybe you are right, my thinking is unless I try I don't know, so I thought let's try everything and bought lot of sh.t
That's why I'm also posting REAL stats AND WHEN I'm stalled!!! So there is no placebo just real NUMBERS!!! Many write all this bullsh.t great pump etc but was a result? Rarely I see any examples.
So there I have real exercises (bench press or BB bicep curls) with real numbers and real STALL so let's see which uber supplement can beat that
I will try with food next time so I will take Agmatine with food and then after 2 1/2G 8G citrulline on empty stomach. That's it if that wont work move to next wonder supplements
Next in line Arginine AAKG (which I doubt will do any good)
Beta vulgaris L. (beet extract)
Then creatine HCL
Grapefruit seed extract

creatine monohydrate took me from 70KG 10X10 bench press routine 73R start to 75KG 84-87R 10X10 routine.
Results could be better but i had to stop creatine mono after 10 days when insomnia appeared.

[macwad]

"Pump Products" lol - Just lol.

I cringe when people tell me there getting an amazing pump from a supplement when there is absolutely 0 back research studies that prove it. Placebo effect at its absolute best.

Biggest scam in the supplement industry.

Someone please prove me wrong if I am. Just please post research articles associated.

I'm definetely not the best one to counter this.
My experience with pump products are anecdotal. Without them, my arms get bigger while exercising, but with them the increase is significantly higher. I can't believe such increase won't be ergogenic someway.

There are some citations on PES High Volume page: http://pescience.com/high-volume.html.
Anyway, Coop might jump here in a while...

[macwad]

I'm not expecting to lift +50KG more after supplementing citrulliine but if I'm stalled with my routine and if there is not even 1R increase from 84R then how that is too much expectations? 5 reps more at least 7 10 but not zero. Dosing was more then enough ~8G of citrulline while none of pump products have that much ....

janism1, what about instead of trying each and every pump ingredient, which would take a lot in terms of money and time, what about a single test?
Just try the best (IMO) pump product, which has agmatine, citrulline, nitrates and GMS (+amento and ruthaxibsd (can`t spell it)), all in the recomended dosages: PES High Volume (I'm not a rep)
If it doesn't work in 2 scoops, forget pump products for you.

BTW, you should have started your tests with nitrates, used in medicine and with such a powerful effect that may even low blood pressure.

And, I'm not surprised you had no effect.
For me, a much smaller guy than you, it takes 10g of pump products (half scoop of Katana + 2 scoops of the old Atletix High Volume) to give me a great pump. So, a single ingredient and in a smaller dosage than mine, shouldn't do much for you

[janism1]

janism1, what about instead of trying each and every pump ingredient, which would take a lot in terms of money and time, what about a single test?
Just try the best (IMO) pump product, which has agmatine, citrulline, nitrates and GMS (+amento and ruthaxibsd (can`t spell it)), all in the recomended dosages: PES High Volume (I'm not a rep)
If it doesn't work in 2 scoops, forget pump products for you.

BTW, you should have started your tests with nitrates, used in medicine and with such a powerful effect that may even low blood pressure.

And, I'm not surprised you had no effect.
For me, a much smaller guy than you, it takes 10g of pump products (half scoop of Katana + 2 scoops of the old Atletix High Volume) to give me a great pump. So, a single ingredient and in a smaller dosage than mine, shouldn't do much for you

what nitrate product you suggest? Arginine nitrate? I have samples of some pre workouts but reason I'm not taking yet is that then it would not be clear which ingredient is working. I think that separately it should work and combining even better but first wanted to see effect from each individually. These 2 I take as it is suggested either in published studies - citrulline study was about 8G and I take exactly that maybe then I will take 10G later , and agmatine as suggested per manufacturer and as others taking 1G is normal dose. Ok maybe I try then 1.5G next time.

what is Atletix High Volume and Katana ???

[BenBlue]

I'm not expecting to lift +50KG more after supplementing citrulliine but if I'm stalled with my routine and if there is not even 1R increase from 84R then how that is too much expectations? 5 reps more at least 7 10 but not zero. Dosing was more then enough ~8G of citrulline while none of pump products have that much ....

Well, according to the anecdotal evidence, and apparent "sound" evidence of NO increasing endurance, you should have been able to get a few more reps out. At the same time, there are so many other factors that dictate how good of a workout you will have. I don't think that 2 sessions with 2 different supps is really enough for you to judge it's effects. Personally, I do feel as though I have more endurance with a pump product, but it is not a night and day difference. May very well be placebo.

At the same time, the real benefit that I get from supp'ing with pump products, is the mind muscle connection. When I can feel every contraction, and see my muscles working etc, I lift better. This is where the benefit lies for me, in addition to the ego boost it gives from feeling huge It's all a mental thing. Pump along with some stims = great workout.

[BenBlue]

what nitrate product you suggest? Arginine nitrate? I have samples of some pre workouts but reason I'm not taking yet is that then it would not be clear which ingredient is working. I think that separately it should work and combining even better but first wanted to see effect from each individually. These 2 I take as it is suggested either in published studies - citrulline study was about 8G and I take exactly that maybe then I will take 10G later , and agmatine as suggested per manufacturer and as others taking 1G is normal dose. Ok maybe I try then 1.5G next time.

what is Atletix High Volume and Katana ???

Potassium Nitrate or Betaine Nitrate would be a much better option IMO. iForce sells PN for a very fair price in the BB store: http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/if...m-nitrate.html

Also, along w PN, bulk GMS has been the most effective in eliciting a pump for me personally.

[DasBiceps]

"Pump Products" lol - Just lol.

I cringe when people tell me there getting an amazing pump from a supplement when there is absolutely 0 back research studies that prove it. Placebo effect at its absolute best.

Biggest scam in the supplement industry.

Someone please prove me wrong if I am. Just please post research articles associated.

So my pumps from potassium nitrate are not backed by science?

[llahhsoj]

Potassium Nitrate or Betaine Nitrate would be a much better option IMO. iForce sells PN for a very fair price in the BB store: http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/if...m-nitrate.html

Also, along w PN, bulk GMS has been the most effective in eliciting a pump for me personally.

Platinum 100% Betaine

I feel that 4 caps preworkout really helps with pumps. That could be too many nitrates for some people and a headache can result from it.

[DasBiceps]

Platinum 100% Betaine

I feel that 4 caps preworkout really helps with pumps. That could be too many nitrates for some people and a headache can result from it.

This right here is one of my favorite products.

Pricing is great, I love take caps over powders, and you get both betaine and nitrates for one.

I would usually only do 2-3 caps pre and 1-2 caps sometime after my workout

[BenBlue]

This right here is one of my favorite products.

Pricing is great, I love take caps over powders, and you get both betaine and nitrates for one.

I would usually only do 2-3 caps pre and 1-2 caps sometime after my workout

This is actually a flippin solid product. Betaine is fantastic, and the binded nitrates are such a nice touch. Gonna have to pick some of this up.

[Realityy]

I know there is a notable difference in pumps/vascularity when I take agmatine and when I do not, for me. Although i never take it alone, I usually add it to my pre (unless it already has a decent dose in)

[ChrisLS8]

Agmatine doesnt necessarily improve performance via NO mechanisms. It also increases performance via raised pain threshold similar to caffeine and rhodiola

[BenBlue]

Agmatine doesnt necessarily improve performance via NO mechanisms. It also increases performance via raised pain threshold similar to caffeine and rhodiola

wasn't aware.

study?

[Mr.Cooper69]

That's because the ONLY relevance to Agmatine being associated with any "pump" is because it night increase insulin sensitivity. Otherwise- ZERO PROOF it gives any type of pump at all.

Actually, this has nothing to do with its effects on pump, and there are indeed well-studied mechanisms by which agmatine reduces BP (in vivo). In vivo studies shows it induces vasodilation by imidazoline signaling + A2A agonism, specifically.

[macwad]

what nitrate product you suggest? Arginine nitrate?

PES High Volume has Arginine nitrate, one of the best forms.
Potassium Nitrate and Betaine Nitrate, as others suggested, are also very good.

then it would not be clear which ingredient is working. I think that separately it should work and combining even better but first wanted to see effect from each individually.

Right, but if all of them combined wouldn't work, them you could conclude that individually none would (unless one would act against the other).
Instead of, let's say, 5 or 6 tests, you could do just one.

citrulline study was about 8G and I take exactly that maybe then I will take 10G later , and agmatine as suggested per manufacturer and as others taking 1G is normal dose. Ok maybe I try then 1.5G next time.

The 10g I mentioned was combining GMS, agmatine and citrulline. I wouldn't go for 10g of citrulline (don't know if it's safe or if it would give any extra benefit).
BTW, Citrulline study mentions 4g of it. If you are using Citrulline Malate, then it's 8g.

what is Atletix High Volume and Katana ???

Preworkouts.
For pumps, again, go for PES High Volume. There are others very good too, like Dilate or Vaskular.

[Mr.Cooper69]

"Pump Products" lol - Just lol.

I cringe when people tell me there getting an amazing pump from a supplement when there is absolutely 0 back research studies that prove it. Placebo effect at its absolute best.

Biggest scam in the supplement industry.

Someone please prove me wrong if I am. Just please post research articles associated.

Ignorant post of the year! Here, let me get you the reference list from the high volume writeup:



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utilization during exercise. European Journal of Applied Physiology.

9. Bendahan D, et al. (2002). Citrulline/malate promotes aerobic energy production in human

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10. Giannesini B, et al. (2011). Citrulline malate supplementation increases muscle efficiency in

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11. Ochiai M, et al. (2012). Short-term effects of L-citrulline supplementation on arterial

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12. Pérez-Guisado, Joaquín, and Philip M. Jakeman. "Citrulline Malate Enhances Athletic Anaerobic

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13. Figueroa, Arturo, Julian A. Trivino, Marcos A. Sanchez-Gonzalez, and Florence Vicil. "Oral L-

Citrulline Supplementation Attenuates Blood Pressure Response to Cold Pressor Test in Young

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14. Pokrovskiy, Mihail V., Mihail V. Korokin, Svetlana A. Tsepeleva, Tatyana G. Pokrovskaya, Vladimir

V. Gureev, Elena A. Konovalova, Oleg S. Gudyrev, Vladimir I. Kochkarov, Liliya V. Korokina,

Eleonora N. Dudina, Anna V. Babko, and Elena G. Terehova. "Arginase Inhibitor in the

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15. Ming, Xiu-Fen, Angana Rajapakse, João Carvas, Jean Ruffieux, and Zhihong Yang. "Inhibition of

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18. Timmerman KL, et al. (2010). Insulin stimulates human skeletal muscle protein synthesis via

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Matthew I. Black, Stephen J. Bailey, Anni Vanhatalo, and Andrew M. Jones. "Dietary Nitrate

Supplementation Improves Team Sport-specific Intense Intermittent Exercise Performance."

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Consumption Acutely Improves Running Performance." Journal of the Academy of Nutrition and

Dietetics 112.4 (2012): 548-52. Web.

23. Lansley, K. E., P. G. Winyard, J. Fulford, A. Vanhatalo, S. J. Bailey, J. R. Blackwell, F. J. Dimenna,

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receptors may be a novel neurotransmitter in brain. Journal of the Autonomic Nervous

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[Mr.Cooper69]

No studies bro!

[Quadzilla99]

what nitrate product you suggest?

If you want a good cheap one Nutriguard Potassium Nitrate is a solid option and I've used successfully for a while now.

[Veznor]

No studies bro!

Pfffff, 35 studies mean nothing.
Name 65 more.

[macwad]

The 10g I mentioned was combining GMS, agmatine and citrulline.

Just checked out.
It's 6g L-Citrulline, 1.5g Agmatine, around 3g GMS.
So it's 10.5g of combined ingredients.