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  1. #31
    Registered User Plateauplower's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SmcAtUb View Post
    No, it will convert the excess to fat. That's what happens to any excess calories, be they from protein, carbohydrate, or fat.
    No. The metabolic process to turn protein into fat is complicated and requires a lot of energy, excess protein is usually excreted and has less chance of being stored as fat. Protein also has the highest thermic effect of the macros. I think 1 gram per lb is a good goal if eating plenty of carbs for the protein sparing effect. I personally try to keep my protein over 1g/lb, but I enjoy eating protein weather eggs, meat or flavoring my oatmeal with whey powder.
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  2. #32
    🅾🅼🅴🅶🅰 🆆🅴🅰🅿🅾🅽 EjnarKolinkar's Avatar
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    Hard gainer = under eater.

    Its not easy OP lots of people struggle to eat more. But nobody promised easy.

    Dont label yourself, just make a consistent effort to train and eat to your goals. Use common sense, stay positive.

    As far as protein intake while gaining .8g per pound is heavily supported.

    I eat 1g protein per pound, just slightly more to be on the safe side, and it keeps me full. Unless beef is on sale then all bets are off.
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    Ironwill2008 is surely doing RDL's and eating eggs and bacon somewhere right now.
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  3. #33
    Fat Ass not a option! 21infantry's Avatar
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    So a few Genetic freaks who are vegans, are the standard of building Muscle now? You know there is actually a group of people out there who actually have better test scores when intoxicated the more intoxicated the better they score. So Alcholism should be the new standard for intelligence building since a few Genetic freaks do better under the influence. The fact of the matter is for 99% of the population meat is simply the most effective protein supplement out there and vital for muscle mass.
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  4. #34
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    Originally Posted by SmcAtUb View Post
    No, it will convert the excess to fat. That's what happens to any excess calories, be they from protein, carbohydrate, or fat.
    But the energy yield from converted fat or protein is lower than it'd be for carbs. I err on the side of too low, but that's for my kidneys and liver..
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  5. #35
    Fat Ass not a option! 21infantry's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by drudixon View Post
    But the energy yield from converted fat or protein is lower than it'd be for carbs. I err on the side of too low, but that's for my kidneys and liver..
    There is no Scientific evidence that High Protein diets, effect the Kidneys or Livers, is this 2014 or 1914?
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  6. #36
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    Originally Posted by 21infantry View Post
    There is no Scientific evidence that High Protein diets, effect the Kidneys or Livers, is this 2014 or 1914?
    Low protein crew checking in with no muscle loss. Just one step ahead of research.
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  7. #37
    Alpha as phuk Mojoke's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kimm4 View Post
    You've mentioned numerous times that you're a hardgainer and you want to take it to the next level and build up decent mass. You've been a meat eater all your life and the first thing you do for the goal you've listed is cut meat out of your diet.

    I don't care what anyone says, meat is on the top of my list when it comes to my main source of protein.

    For the goal you've listed it makes no sense to pull out meat. Nothing like making the battle even more difficult and shooting yourself in the foot...
    Define meat. Red meat will get you seriously heart issues so it's consumption should be limited to once or twice a week tops!
    White meats like turkey and chicken are fine. Salmon, tuna, shrimp and many other are all outstanding sources of protein
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  8. #38
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    Originally Posted by Jbizzlechizzle View Post
    Agree with this 100%. Red meat is king. I can't imagine trying to gain without red meat or chicken. Maybe it can be done, but I'd find this unimaginably hard. I'm eating 2700+ cals/day and 180g+ of protein and gains are still a struggle. It almost seems impossible if you're not eating a ton of meat OP.
    Red meat gives cardiovascular issues, see also my other post. Red meat sucks
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  9. #39
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    Originally Posted by Mojoke View Post
    Red meat gives cardiovascular issues, see also my other post. Red meat sucks
    Wrong. Eat lean cuts. So many ****wits in the ov35. What has become of this place lately?
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  10. #40
    I want a PB&J Mr. Someday's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mojoke View Post
    Define meat. Red meat will get you seriously heart issues so it's consumption should be limited to once or twice a week tops!
    White meats like turkey and chicken are fine. Salmon, tuna, shrimp and many other are all outstanding sources of protein
    Go do some reading and get back to me.

    http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/its-the-beef/
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  11. #41
    Bored drudixon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 21infantry View Post
    There is no Scientific evidence that High Protein diets, effect the Kidneys or Livers, is this 2014 or 1914?
    There's plenty if you have a preexisting condition. Since I piss excess protein, doc said take it easy. Even healthy organs face acidosis when faced with too much protein (albeit 3x advised levels).

    So on that note, please educate yourself before pretending to be smart again. Kthxbai
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  12. #42
    Bootless Errand ironwill2008's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mojoke View Post
    Define meat. Red meat will get you seriously heart issues so it's consumption should be limited to once or twice a week tops!
    White meats like turkey and chicken are fine. Salmon, tuna, shrimp and many other are all outstanding sources of protein
    Originally Posted by Mojoke View Post
    Red meat gives cardiovascular issues, see also my other post. Red meat sucks
    (sigh)..................

    Stop taking your nutrition "advices" from "dr" oz, and spend some time on PubMed or JISSN.



    BTW, if there's anything that should be avoided, it's canned tuna. Unless you want to look like a thermometer.
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  13. #43
    Alpha as phuk Mojoke's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    (sigh)..................

    Stop taking your nutrition "advices" from "dr" oz, and spend some time on PubMed or JISSN.



    BTW, if there's anything that should be avoided, it's canned tuna. Unless you want to look like a thermometer.
    If you want to know better than the cardiologists, that's fine with me. All I see in the referenced article is terms like likely, probably, possible... then he suddenly swaps to inadequate protein intake leading to myocardial muscle loss while this wasn't even the question. There are plenty of protein sources other then beef that will provide you enough protein.

    It should be common sense that too much of anything is bad. Go for a varied diet, that's what we're supposed to do.
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  14. #44
    Bootless Errand ironwill2008's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mojoke View Post
    If you want to know better than the cardiologists, that's fine with me. All I see in the referenced article is terms like likely, probably, possible... then he suddenly swaps to inadequate protein intake leading to myocardial muscle loss while this wasn't even the question. There are plenty of protein sources other then beef that will provide you enough protein.

    It should be common sense that too much of anything is bad. Go for a varied diet, that's what we're supposed to do.
    Cardiologists aren't scientists.
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    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

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  15. #45
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    Originally Posted by Mojoke View Post
    It should be common sense that too much of anything is bad. Go for a varied diet, that's what we're supposed to do.
    You'd think so wouldn't you? But then some chump will come along and spout utter horsechit like "red meat sucks"...
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  16. #46
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    I've referred a few people to this article that has some great information about protein intake. http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/maki1.htm
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  17. #47
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    Originally Posted by Mojoke View Post
    Red meat gives cardiovascular issues, see also my other post. Red meat sucks


    Please...



    http://www.beefnutrition.org/CMDocs/...tandCancer.pdf

    +

    http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/...jcn.111.016261

    Low-SFA, heart-healthy dietary patterns that contain lean beef elicit favorable effects on cardiovascular disease (CVD) lipid and lipoprotein risk factors that are comparable to those elicited by a DASH dietary pattern. These results, in conjunction with the beneficial effects on apolipoprotein CVD risk factors after consumption of the BOLD and BOLD+ diets, which were greater with the BOLD+ diet, provide support for including lean beef in a heart-healthy dietary pattern.

    And interestingly


    http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/86/2/451.full


    The ability of a common, protein-rich food item, such as lean beef, to stimulate muscle protein synthesis is good news for elderly persons. Previous studies have found a blunted responsiveness to the anabolic effect of small doses of AAs (19, 29) but a normal response to a larger dose (29). The current data suggest that a normal serving of beef provides enough AAs to overcome any deficiency in responsiveness.
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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^

    Geez; looking at some actual science, instead of the sensationalistic article in The National Enquirer at the checkout counter at Go Mart.




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    Originally Posted by Mojoke View Post
    Red meat gives cardiovascular issues, see also my other post. Red meat sucks
    Nobody is suggesting that one should eat 5 lbs of ground beef a week, Mojoke. Too much of anything can give you health issues. There is nothing wrong with eating red meat in moderation, specifically lean cuts of red meat. I have it 2-3 days a week and I'm fit as a fiddle. Try again.
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  21. #51
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    Originally Posted by EjnarKolinkar View Post
    Hard gainer = under eater.

    Its not easy OP lots of people struggle to eat more. But nobody promised easy.

    Dont label yourself, just make a consistent effort to train and eat to your goals. Use common sense, stay positive.

    As far as protein intake while gaining .8g per pound is heavily supported.

    I eat 1g protein per pound, just slightly more to be on the safe side, and it keeps me full. Unless beef is on sale then all bets are off.

    QFT.


    Might as well drop this here for OP and anyone else who fancies a read.

    http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-...-bodybuilders/
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  22. #52
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    Originally Posted by Mojoke View Post
    Red meat gives cardiovascular issues, see also my other post. Red meat sucks


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  23. #53
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    I bet Op can't gain because he don't track, stops eating meat and now isn't eating enough calories...... but thinks he is.

    I can't eat much beef but I sure as hell eat a lot of fish & chicken. I can't imagine trying to eat enough calories with little meat.

    Good luck with that.

    BTW, if you wanna give me the I eat eggs, milk, nuts to make up for it I'll call BS on it. Ive tracked my food for 3years nonstop now- medical reasons. I wanna see a few days worth of food you eat. I bet you calories/macros aren't so good.
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  24. #54
    🅾🅼🅴🅶🅰 🆆🅴🅰🅿🅾🅽 EjnarKolinkar's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by doughnutgut View Post
    QFT.


    Might as well drop this here for OP and anyone else who fancies a read.

    http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-...-bodybuilders/


    ^Ah that's a good one.

    Some excerpts from further adventures of the .82g/LB

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1112484773

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1124974243

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1124960623
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  25. #55
    I want to get toned Caesura75's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    No. The metabolic process to turn protein into fat is complicated and requires a lot of energy, excess protein is usually excreted and has less chance of being stored as fat. Protein also has the highest thermic effect of the macros. I think 1 gram per lb is a good goal if eating plenty of carbs for the protein sparing effect. I personally try to keep my protein over 1g/lb, but I enjoy eating protein weather eggs, meat or flavoring my oatmeal with whey powder.
    You see, once you make a claim of certain macros having different effects (e.g, excess protein not turning to fat), then you're indirectly suggesting that the simple principle of calorie surpluses/deficits is misleading.

    E.g, a standard prawn curry of 500 cals has 7g of protein

    a quarter pounder with cheese of 500 cals has 30g of protein

    So you're saying that (whilst perhaps insignificant) the curry would result in more fat gain if both were eaten at an equal surplus.

    Furthermore, does that mean that a person who eats 200g of protein can disregard most of the 800 calories he/she has consumed as it'll either be utilised for muscle gain/repair or be flushed straight down the toilet?

    Or in essence, does it mean you have a higher calorie maintenance, the higher your protein intake is?

    Sorry but I don't buy that.
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    Originally Posted by Caesura75 View Post
    You see, once you make a claim of certain macros having different effects (e.g, excess protein not turning to fat), then you're indirectly suggesting that the simple principle of calorie surpluses/deficits is misleading.

    E.g, a standard prawn curry of 500 cals has 7g of protein

    a quarter pounder with cheese of 500 cals has 30g of protein

    So you're saying that (whilst perhaps insignificant) the curry would result in more fat gain if both were eaten at an equal surplus.

    Furthermore, does that mean that a person who eats 200g of protein can disregard most of the 800 calories he/she has consumed as it'll either be utilised for muscle gain/repair or be flushed straight down the toilet?

    Or in essence, does it mean you have a higher calorie maintenance, the higher your protein intake is?

    Sorry but I don't buy that.
    What don't you buy? Protein is pretty much never going to be converted to fat, you'll oxidize it for energy. Carbohydrate for the most part doesn't get converted to fat either. You get fat eating an excess of both because you are decreasing fat oxidation.
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    How much protein threads and how much,creatine threads always end up the same whey.









    A drivvel of overcomplication of the basics.
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    I've read so many conflicting articles, but in the end most stated that not everyone will utilize protein in the same manner. Person can have same size, height,weight... Yet their body may burn or utilize protein as someone with the same specs.

    I'm around a 170~210g a day, depending on the workload.
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