phosphatidic acid

[kissdadookie]

Never trust a writeup lol. Read the paper on HICA, the full text is free. It acts quite similarly to HMB

I've reread that write up. I wonded it completely wrong.

It appears HICA binds to H+ and NH4+ which both effectively removes these "waste" products whilst providing substrate to be formed into other things like back to leucine.

Are HICA and HMB both working on the ubiquitinproteasome proteolytic pathway?

[Quadzilla99]

The suppversity guy is kind of anti-supplement sometimes so take his opinions with a grain of salt but hica seems to work by increasing protein synthesis I think

http://m.ajpendo.physiology.org/content/305/3/E416

[NewAgeMayan]

I still have plenty left and i wouldn't mind upping my HICA-Max intake.

Id love to up dose as well, they taste so good. Did you manage to get in on the 3for2 deal couple weeks back?

[Veznor]

Id love to up dose as well, they taste so good. Did you manage to get in on the 3for2 deal couple weeks back?

I bought a sh*tload a few months ago when they were 25% off (iirc).
Also have a couple CREmTOR tubs from a similar deal.

[kissdadookie]

The suppversity guy is kind of anti-supplement sometimes so take his opinions with a grain of salt but hica seems to work by increasing protein synthesis I think

http://m.ajpendo.physiology.org/content/305/3/E416

That's what I understand as well.

HMB however, the protein synthesis effect it has is really secondary to its anti-catabolic effect (you would supplement with HMB for the anti-catabolic effect, not the protein synthesis effect since leucine is superior and there's no additive effect on protein synthesis when combining the two). The anti-catabolic effect of HMB appears to occur at a step in the intracellular signaling pathway after PLA2 (inhibiting PIF-induced signaling pathways). It's kind of similar to EPA. This is going by a study on HMB's effects on muscle wasting from cancer though.

[DannPM]

Been reading and following along with these posts. Can anyone help me out to what I've tried to summarize? I'm planning to buy some PA.

-Optima lecithin is a better buy than Fearn in terms of content and price
-Take with your pre-workout (30 mins from training but no more than an hour away??)
-Take only on lifting days
-Take on an empty stomach, full stomach, or does that not matter?
-Dosage amount should be between 1800mg PA and 2400mg PA <--- is there any x amount per body weight that we know of??

I think it was shown that Fearn was the best deal per gram of PA. Doesn’t matter food content of your stomach from what I take away from the conversation.

I think dosage can be 1200mg to 1800mg, at least that’s what Killer84 has been using I think. It is taken pre-workout, half an hour should be fine. Some take it only on lifting days. I think others are taking it every day. I don’t know which is best.

Others please correct me if I’m wrong on these points, this is just what I have read so far!

[BlueRev]

X-gels and ABE. Yes.

I get the whole "iv used them before" thing, but you truly cannot judge a new supplement while running something so strong like ara. You should stop using those before praising a cheap raw as a miracle muscle builder.

Coop says it best, setting prs like you are, chances are, placebo.

[Danes]

I have tried HICA and i felt some DOMS decrease but HMB FA really removed DOMS . I used to workout each musclegroup once a week but now i do twice now. If this is better than HICA ? Well deff much better for me when it comes to DOMS "removing" (removing the metabolic waste products responsible for DOMS)

[kissdadookie]

I have tried HICA and i felt some DOMS decrease but HMB FA really removed DOMS . I used to workout each musclegroup once a week but now i do twice now. If this is better than HICA ? Well deff much better for me when it comes to DOMS "removing" (removing the metabolic waste products responsible for DOMS)

The two really are completely different animals in terms of how you feel using them. HICA never did much for me in terms of recovery but HMB-FA made a night and day difference on recovery pretty much the first week. When being off it for a week, recovery was notably reduced a few days of training in without it.

[KillerB84]

I get the whole "iv used them before" thing, but you truly cannot judge a new supplement while running something so strong like ara. You should stop using those before praising a cheap raw as a miracle muscle builder.

Coop says it best, setting prs like you are, chances are, placebo.

Getting stronger is getting stronger. Placebo or not. I don't mind placebo'ing my way to a 500 Bench.

[Danes]

The two really are completely different animals in terms of how you feel using them. HICA never did much for me in terms of recovery but HMB-FA made a night and day difference on recovery pretty much the first week. When being off it for a week, recovery was notably reduced a few days of training in without it.

I know that but the funny thing is how people judge HMB FA .
If you workout 3 times a week, i really see no point using HMB FA. But it you really hsve great volume of training then it is damn good and really feel difference

[kissdadookie]

I know that but the funny thing is how people judge HMB FA .
If you workout 3 times a week, i really see no point using HMB FA. But it you really hsve great volume of training then it is damn good and really feel difference

Agreed. The stuff is conditionally beneficial, not a one size fits all.

[MarcelinoChiles]

I'm looking into my crystal ball and I'm seeing companies releasing PA enriched soy lecithin granules in bulk for a reasonable price and people dosing 3 to 5g PA pre-workout. It will be the next Creatine.

I've been saying that PA supplementation would be up there with Creatine and beta alanine for months now! LoL. As long as the price comes down and stabilizes (just like Creatine had to do).

yeya!

That's what I understand as well.

HMB however, the protein synthesis effect it has is really secondary to its anti-catabolic effect (you would supplement with HMB for the anti-catabolic effect, not the protein synthesis effect since leucine is superior and there's no additive effect on protein synthesis when combining the two). The anti-catabolic effect of HMB appears to occur at a step in the intracellular signaling pathway after PLA2 (inhibiting PIF-induced signaling pathways). It's kind of similar to EPA. This is going by a study on HMB's effects on muscle wasting from cancer though.

are there any threads where kdd and hmb occur independent of one another

[kissdadookie]

yeah



are there any threads where kdd and hmb occur independent of one another

Are there any threads where you are not trolling whatever new product there is?

[MarcelinoChiles]

Are there any threads where you are not trolling whatever new product there is?

what, I like to find out about good new stuff too!

[KillerB84]

This thread has kind of de-railed into a cross between a HICA/HMB discussion and people who believe I can use the power of my mind to lift more weight.

To get back on track, I'm doing 3 tablespoons all at once for the first time in about an hour. Last time I did 3 tablespoons it was split 1 and 2. So we will see how my stomach handles it.

Going for another placebo PR on Overhead Press. Will post vid tonight.

[MuscleUpCrohns]

This thread has kind of de-railed into a cross between a HICA/HMB discussion and people who believe I can use the power of my mind to lift more weight.

To get back on track, I'm doing 3 tablespoons all at once for the first time in about an hour. Last time I did 3 tablespoons it was split 1 and 2. So we will see how my stomach handles it.

Going for another placebo PR on Overhead Press. Will post vid tonight.

My bad for derailing the thread. Good luck setting a PR, whatever the reason for it is.

I'll be sticking with 750mg PA from the new King until I get the Optima lecithin in, at which point I'll be adding 750mg PA from lecithin to the 750mg from King for a total of 1.5g PA pre-workout. I have never gone above 750mg PA, so this should be interesting.

[KillerB84]

My bad for derailing the thread. Good luck setting a PR, whatever the reason for it is.

I'll be sticking with 750mg PA from the new King until I get the Optima lecithin in, at which point I'll be adding 750mg PA from lecithin to the 750mg from King for a total of 1.5g PA pre-workout. I have never gone above 750mg PA, so this should be interesting.

Definitely should be interesting, especially since you have previous PA experience.

[alvin1]

This thread has kind of de-railed into a cross between a HICA/HMB discussion and people who believe I can use the power of my mind to lift more weight.

To get back on track, I'm doing 3 tablespoons all at once for the first time in about an hour. Last time I did 3 tablespoons it was split 1 and 2. So we will see how my stomach handles it.

Going for another placebo PR on Overhead Press. Will post vid tonight.

Yep let get back on topic, and good luck for your PR attemp tonight

[kissdadookie]

This thread has kind of de-railed into a cross between a HICA/HMB discussion and people who believe I can use the power of my mind to lift more weight.

To get back on track, I'm doing 3 tablespoons all at once for the first time in about an hour. Last time I did 3 tablespoons it was split 1 and 2. So we will see how my stomach handles it.

Going for another placebo PR on Overhead Press. Will post vid tonight.

Don't be weak minded brah!

[MuscleUpCrohns]

Don't be weak minded brah!

[KillerB84]

Lol. Did 3 tablespoons about 45 minutes ago. So far so good. Heading down to lift in a few.

[NewAgeMayan]

fuk it, just ordered a 500gm of the Optima product...wont be trying til Jan next year tho, pulled trigger now cos it on special

[iamjeffrey]

fuk it, just ordered a 500gm of the Optima product...wont be trying til Jan next year tho, pulled trigger now cos it on special

Thinking about picking up a few tubs of the fearn to increase dosage of PA to 1.5g PWO, and use my V1 king morning, and night respectively.


HRMMMMMMMMMM this thread peaked my curiosity.

[TheFugitive]

This thread has kind of de-railed into a cross between a HICA/HMB discussion and people who believe I can use the power of my mind to lift more weight.

To get back on track, I'm doing 3 tablespoons all at once for the first time in about an hour. Last time I did 3 tablespoons it was split 1 and 2. So we will see how my stomach handles it.

Going for another placebo PR on Overhead Press. Will post vid tonight.

Keep us updated

[NewAgeMayan]

Thinking about picking up a few tubs of the fearn to increase dosage of PA to 1.5g PWO, and use my V1 king morning, and night respectively.

Yeah I prolly woulda bought the Fearn if i lived America/Canada, but i get free shipping on top of special price for Optima where I currently am

Yeah, i hear you on the increased pa dose. Ive been running og King at 750mg, and had some really good muscle fullness, but strength increase beyond initial 'jump' has been underwhelming...hoping increase in pa will put a bit more oomph into strength

[iamjeffrey]

Yeah I prolly woulda bought the Fearn if i lived America/Canada, but i get free shipping on top of special price for Optima where I currently am

Yeah, i hear you on the increased pa dose. Ive been running og King at 750mg, and had some really good muscle fullness, but strength increase beyond initial 'jump' has been underwhelming...hoping increase in pa will put a bit more oomph into strength

Yeah, I want to hit 750mg to 1g PA PWO, and still dose the other 2-3 caps of king (after I get this bulk) in the morning and night. I talked to danes a lot about the PA level he's taking, and when he bumped it up the added benefits.

Curiosity has gotten the best of me. This thread made me pop open my tub of king V1 to get started on the PA craze. Had 3 tubs V1 to use. Figure keep the dosing as it says, 1 morning, 1 pre, 1 night for 750mg, then dose 750-1200mg PA from the bulk to hit 1.5g PWO...

[NewAgeMayan]

Yeah, I want to hit 750mg to 1g PA PWO, and still dose the other 2-3 caps of king (after I get this bulk) in the morning and night. I talked to danes a lot about the PA level he's taking, and when he bumped it up the added benefits.

Curiosity has gotten the best of me. This thread made me pop open my tub of king V1 to get started on the PA craze. Had 3 tubs V1 to use. Figure keep the dosing as it says, 1 morning, 1 pre, 1 night for 750mg, then dose 750-1200mg PA from the bulk to hit 1.5g PWO...

Ill say this only as a 'fwiw', I know thefooj will say stick to label directions...Ive been dosing King 3 caps all pre, no gi issues at all. But again, thats my experience. ive been doing this because all the info regarding PA is that it works best dosed pre workout. I realise king has other ingredients, but figured trying all 3 caps pre was worth a shot for this reason alone.

The muscle fullness at 750gm is awesome, though. I can see why this stuff can be addicting.

[kissdadookie]

PA, the chit works

Just need to now find out if regular soy lecithin will suffice for sure. So far, looks promising.

[TheFugitive]

PA, the chit works

Just need to now find out if regular soy lecithin will suffice for sure. So far, looks promising.

My mom has benn supplementing with Soy Lecithin for years, no gains