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  1. #61
    Registered User Horizon92's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Atem69 View Post
    If he was natty in the 40s against other natty sprinters you can't say for sure he would destroy them because a huge variable has been removed.

    Just like we all have different genetics we all respond differently to drugs
    So what you are saying is, steroids is the only thing that makes modern man better at anything physical today - because of chemicals ruining or natty bodies? I.e, you are saying that "chemicals" has a larger negative impact than all the innovation done in training science, understanding and ON TOP OF THAT the larger overall population, more people being brought into any sport in question from a young age etc has a positive impact?

    unbelievable
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  2. #62
    It Sick MrRipley's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Decisionzzzz View Post
    Yes, they ate "a ton of food", and it probably was micronutrient dense. But were they are actively tracking the amount of food they were taking in with the proper knowledge of the amount of macronutrients that needed for optimal gains? No. Were they using programming that allowed for adequate volume and frequency along with proper recovery including undulating periodization? No. I'm pretty sure the taller you are the more ability you have to carry more mass just because of your frame being larger, but there are some genetic exceptions.
    They ate very strict and regulated diets, got to large sizes and obviously knew how to get stronger and eat appropriately. Hell they were stronger than most naturals today and put many of today's brosplit using enhanced lifters to shame strength wise. Surely this is a good indicator that their programming was effective? It is debatable whether undulating periodisation is actually more effective than standard training protocols, tons of natties on this site use really basic routines like 5x5 and end up with 500-600lb squats.

    And it may be a factor but by far the most important are hormone levels and bone structure as well as muscle bellies. People were tall back then , many were above 6ft and had tons of muscle.

    If you lift for 20 years and eat a decent amount, what is "optimal" becomes a irrelevant.
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  3. #63
    Still no superstar NeverGiveUp87's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KRANE View Post
    Then stop trying. Instead, realize that if it exists, it will be used. And now that the cats out of the bag, there is no turning back.

    Laws only create more of the very thing which they attempt to destroy. In the beginning there was only two. Today, there are a thousand. Does that sound like rational thinking to you?
    Yeah, I agree. That's why I said "Just lift and have fun..." when I entered the thread
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  4. #64
    Fuk ur lyfe Atem69's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Horizon92 View Post
    So what you are saying is, steroids is the only thing that makes modern man better at anything physical today - because of chemicals ruining or natty bodies? I.e, you are saying that "chemicals" has a larger negative impact than all the innovation done in training science, understanding and ON TOP OF THAT the larger overall population, more people being brought into any sport in question from a young age etc has a positive impact?

    unbelievable
    It doesn't matter if we have more people if everyone is being negatively impacted by endocrine disruptors

    Innovation in training science? Lol that doesn't change the natty potential at all most of that so called innovation is just a gimmick to sell bs supplements and workout guides

    Humans can only hold so much muscle naturally due to our DNA the only way to surpass that is with performance enhancers that's common knowledge
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  5. #65
    162lbs in avi Decisionzzzz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MrRipley View Post
    They ate very strict diets, got to large sizes and obviously knew how to get stronger and eat appropriately. Hell they were stronger than most naturals today and put many of today's brosplit using enhanced lifters to shame strength wise. Surely this is a good indicator that their programming was effective? It is debatable whether undulating periodisation is actually more effective than standard training protocols.

    And it may be a factor but by far the most important are hormone levels and bone structure as well as muscle belly length.
    Yes, they were doing very well for the knowledge they had. Obviously the only ones whos names are still known today were the ones with exceptional genetics.
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  6. #66
    Registered User Horizon92's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Atem69 View Post
    It doesn't matter if we have more people if everyone is being negatively impacted by endocrine disruptors

    Innovation in training science? Lol that doesn't change the natty potential at all most of that so called innovation is just a gimmick to sell bs supplements and workout guides

    Humans can only hold so much muscle naturally due to our DNA the only way to surpass that is with performance enhancers that's common knowledge
    link me to some proof of this phenomenons global consequences in todays males

    also, you think I am talking about pre workout and caffeine tablets? Who would you want as a strength coach, the top dude in the 40s or today? Today of course because we know more about our bodies, how to train them and not to forget nutrition.
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  7. #67
    It Sick MrRipley's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Decisionzzzz View Post
    Yes, they were doing very well for the knowledge they had. Obviously the only ones whos names are still known today were the ones with exceptional genetics.
    that is a good point, but it again highlights the fact that what we do today is practically the same as back then. If we compare genetic freaks of today to the ones of yesteryear, the old timers still stand very strong.

    if you lifted for as long as they did , you learnt pretty much everything through basic trial and error.


    you really don't need BCAAs to get within 95% of the natural muscular potential
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  8. #68
    162lbs in avi Decisionzzzz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MrRipley View Post
    that is a good point, but it again highlights the fact that what we do today is practically the same as back then. If we compare genetic freaks of today to the ones of yesteryear, the old timers still stand very strong.

    if you lifted for as long as they did , you learnt pretty much everything through basic trial and error.
    I'm not really debating that we are genetically superior to them, other than the average height increase, but we are now more efficient with our training which allows us to make gains faster which in turn allows us to see the possibilities for natural limits.
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  9. #69
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    Originally Posted by Decisionzzzz View Post
    I'm not really debating that we are genetically superior to them, other than the average height increase, but we are now more efficient with our training which allows us to make gains faster which in turn allows us to see the possibilities for natural limits.
    again would really knowing what is efficient see the possibilities for natural limits? You might get to a certain point quicker but we cannot bend nature and become vastly stronger or bigger than them through knowledge alone. If you've been lifting heavy and gaining weight for 20 years, you'll get pretty jacked and these guys new how to do this.

    the concept of acquiring optimality is a pointless escapade, no matter what exercise you choose, what nutrition protocol, if you eat big and have 17-18 inch arms after 20 years you will be somewhat close to your potential.

    average height increase might account for 0.1% amount of muscle mass gain, but there were still a lot of tall people back in 1900 lol.
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  10. #70
    162lbs in avi Decisionzzzz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MrRipley View Post
    again would really knowing what is efficient see the possibilities for natural limits? You might get to a certain point quicker but we cannot bend nature and become vastly stronger or bigger than them through knowledge alone. If you've been lifting heavy and gaining weight for 20 years, you'll get pretty jacked and these guys new how to do this.

    the concept of acquiring optimality is a pointless escapade, no matter what exercise you choose, what nutrition protocol, if you eat big and have 17-18 inch arms after 20 years you will be somewhat close to your potential.
    But if you have efficient training and nutrition, you can reach that goal sooner and still have time left in your "prime" to push the limits. Obviously it is going to be around their size, but if we never try to push past those naturally we will never know. I see what you're saying though and I agree.
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  11. #71
    Cherchez la femme...Se si KRANE's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Decisionzzzz View Post
    I'm not really debating that we are genetically superior to them, other than the average height increase, but we are now more efficient with our training which allows us to make gains faster which in turn allows us to see the possibilities for natural limits.
    Not really genetically superior. Although that technology does exist. Rather, we know a lot more about training and nutrition than they did. As well as the physiology, and what actually happens at the molecular level.

    But speaking of genetics. One has to wonder if and when we start using that technology would it have the equivalent backlash as the chemicals do today? That is, naturals competing against selective bread?

    No doubt that in 50 years or so, they will be referring back to discussions such as these. Anyway, that's something our children and grandchildren will have to deal with, and answer.
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  12. #72
    Banned VictorHei's Avatar
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    is this possible natty? (srs) Clay has my goal physique



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  13. #73
    Banned CHCL's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Codyisback View Post
    this whole thread is disheartening, smh, see someone who looks good and instantly accuse them of steroid usage, yet this is the Misc, and, the internet
    This. It is literally amazing how delusional the misc is.

    For instance, they say that Henry Cavill wasn't natty for his MoS debut. The thing is, he looked like this.






    I mean, this isn't even that impressive and they say he was on tech smh. (No homo, don't really care about him that much ether. I just remember a thread about this a while ago when the movie came out.)(This was after about 6-7 months lifting before the movie, and it was a couple of months into shooting, so almost a year of work.)



    Edit: Actually it IS impressive. Our standards are just messed up.
    Last edited by CHCL; 09-20-2014 at 03:26 PM.
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  14. #74
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    Originally Posted by VictorHei View Post
    is this possible natty? (srs) Clay has my goal physique



    Yes of course it is. Did you even watch the video? Also read the articles in the description below. Good stuff.
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  15. #75
    Registered User Lucianus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Atem69 View Post
    No miscer will look like those guys naturally.

    Modern chemicals are ****ing with our endocrine systems
    u wot m8

    You see load of shorter guys that look like this

    does anyone know the guys in the OPs height?
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  16. #76
    Registered User NutritionKing's Avatar
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    well if these hormones in our food are messing us up so bad, it would seem like we should have invented hormones that could help us gain muscle also.

    haha that could legit be the next big thing in bodybuilding
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    Originally Posted by CHCL View Post
    This. It is literally amazing how delusional the misc is.

    For instance, they say that Henry Cavill wasn't natty for his MoS debut. The thing is, he looked like this.



    I mean, this isn't even that impressive and they say he was on tech smh. (No homo, don't really care about him that much ether. I just remember a thread about this a while ago when the movie came out.)(This was after about 6-7 months lifting before the movie, and it was a couple of months into shooting, so almost a year of work.)



    Edit: Actually it IS impressive. Our standards are just messed up.
    You're the delusional one. Why don't you look like him yet?
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    O lawd.
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    Originally Posted by MiscDicktectiv View Post
    You're the delusional one. Why don't you look like him yet?
    LOL do you follow every post I make or what?


    Fyi, I don't lift for muscle, I am at a caloric defect. I want to get strong at a low weight, however.

    And what makes you think of cell tech? He was 190lb, probably 13-14% bf from the pics, and is 6'1". Not only that, but he is much less impressive than the people in the OP, who were 100% confirmed natty.


    Edit: Give me an example of a natty physique that you think is possible.
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  20. #80
    Cherchez la femme...Se si KRANE's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by VictorHei View Post
    is this possible natty? (srs) Clay has my goal physique

    [img]http://www.factory-agency.com/sites/default/files/styles/news_img/public/Screen%20Shot%202012-07-25%20at%205.47.55%20PM.png[img]

    [img]http://www3.pictures.gi.stylebistro.com/Bryan+Clay+Tattoos+Artistic+Design+Tattoo+0s0ZJoYE Zhil.jpg[img]
    LOL, really dude? With the exception of a bit more lose skin from my diet, that's my physique right now.
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  21. #81
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    I was reading about this before.. that raw strength, on that circus time then, is beautiful
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    lol at everybody thinking they had perfect diets and ''put in the work'' that people somehow aren't doing today


    they probably kept it to the basics, had a drink after training and didn't obsess whether they should grip the bar 15 or more like 16 inches apart to better hit their ''upper inner chest''
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  23. #83
    It Sick MrRipley's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Decisionzzzz View Post
    But if you have efficient training and nutrition, you can reach that goal sooner and still have time left in your "prime" to push the limits. Obviously it is going to be around their size, but if we never try to push past those naturally we will never know. I see what you're saying though and I agree.
    In theory yes, but it won't really make that much of a difference as natural levels of test decrease slowly as we age, and we can keep them high if we eat healthily and still lift.

    At the end of the day brah, just get out there and do the best you can.
    adde parvum parvo magnus acervus erit.
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    Originally Posted by KRANE View Post
    LOL, really dude? With the exception of a bit more lose skin from my diet, that's my physique right now.
    never planned for a bodybuilding physique, I wanted to do decathlon but one of the coaches at my college athletics team told me to start lifting/work out before I start as I was weak as **** so I'm finally starting in my junior year next week
    Last edited by VictorHei; 09-20-2014 at 04:11 PM.
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    What a coincidence that all the "genetic freaks" started cropping up after the advent of Cell Tech.
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