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  1. #121
    Registered User ironmaniac508's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KAFitness View Post
    When it comes to plyometrics and vert. jump training,

    your vert. jump should be significantly higher than the squat-pause jump. The reason for this is stretch reflex theory. Because you're a pausing at the bottom of the squat you're inhibiting this 'stretch reflex'. You're basically preventing a rubber band or spring from recoiling.

    So, if you squat-pause jump is just as high as your vert. then that tells me that you have a strong base of lower body strength/power but lack the coordination and technique of the vert. jump.

    Here is an excerpt I wrote in another previous thread:

    Let me break down the vert. jump anatomically:

    A high vertical jump is a result of 3 major joints: The ankle, knee, and hip.

    Improve the force created at these 3 joints and your vert will explode... literally. I recently trained a 5'5 gentlemen who in just a few weeks increased his vert. by 4-6 inches.

    First master the squat: Barbell/DB/Box squat. Other leg work should include lunges and step ups

    Next master the jumping technique. Learn how to squat low but not too low (the ass to grass does not apply to vert. jumping) and explode to full extension of all 3 joints.

    Then work on plyometric work.

    Exercises should include: ankle jumps, squat jumps, box jumps and BOX DROPS (the best exercise, you can also add a jump after the drop which makes it even more better), bounds, etc. Add on uni-lateral (single leg) exercises and you can also add on weight to these exercises as well by holding a med. ball/ weight plate.
    Just saw this, thanks.

    A lot of what you said essentially sums up my original thoughts....that I have very good strength/power but lack the technique to properly execute a vertical jump.

    How much of a difference can be expected between these two different styles of jumping that I mentioned once I learn the technique? Is there a way to estimate potential based off of this?
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  2. #122
    Registered User KAFitness's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ironmaniac508 View Post
    How much of a difference can be expected between these two different styles of jumping that I mentioned once I learn the technique? Is there a way to estimate potential based off of this?
    No problem bud!

    Well, jumping from a pause will only hinder your vertical jump height. If you're trying to increase your vert. jump, focus on the "stretch-reflex". Improving this technique will improve fast-twitch contractions, improving power.

    If you want to compare this technique to a "pause-squat" you can't. One technique, the one I advise, is scientifically proven to provide the greatest vertical jump height. A "pause-squat" doesn't take advantage of the reflex theory.

    Yes, pausing at the bottom of a squat improves the "sticky" point and low squat strength, but because it eliminates power (work/time) it will not improve your vertical jump.

    Just think about it, basketball players don't perform a dunk from squatting "ass to grass".

    Ass to grass does not apply to vertical jump plyometric training haha
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  3. #123
    Registered User krakkerz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KAFitness View Post
    Yes, pausing at the bottom of a squat improves the "sticky" point and low squat strength, but because it eliminates power (work/time) it will not improve your vertical jump.

    Just think about it, basketball players don't perform a dunk from squatting "ass to grass".

    Ass to grass does not apply to vertical jump plyometric training haha
    Sorry, but this shows a misunderstanding of physiology - especially as it relates to the difference between General and Specific Preparedness.

    Also, you can't "concentrate on the stretch reflex". It's a reflex. Perhaps you should have said "Minimise ground contact time".
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  4. #124
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    Originally Posted by krakkerz View Post
    Perhaps you should have said "Minimise ground contact time".
    Yes, this^

    (sorry i get so caught up into terminology I forget to talk lamens)
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  5. #125
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    Originally Posted by KAFitness View Post
    Yes, this^

    (sorry i get so caught up into terminology I forget to talk lamens)
    Layman's.
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  6. #126
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    Originally Posted by krakkerz View Post
    Layman's.
    Thanks. Never knew how to spell that word.
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  7. #127
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    should you isolate your calves? Does it help vertical and what exactly you should do calf raises on machine basic 3sets 10 reps?
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  8. #128
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    Originally Posted by KAFitness View Post
    When it comes to plyometrics and vert. jump training,

    your vert. jump should be significantly higher than the squat-pause jump. The reason for this is stretch reflex theory. Because you're a pausing at the bottom of the squat you're inhibiting this 'stretch reflex'. You're basically preventing a rubber band or spring from recoiling.

    So, if you squat-pause jump is just as high as your vert. then that tells me that you have a strong base of lower body strength/power but lack the coordination and technique of the vert. jump.

    Here is an excerpt I wrote in another previous thread:

    Let me break down the vert. jump anatomically:

    A high vertical jump is a result of 3 major joints: The ankle, knee, and hip.

    Improve the force created at these 3 joints and your vert will explode... literally. I recently trained a 5'5 gentlemen who in just a few weeks increased his vert. by 4-6 inches.

    First master the squat: Barbell/DB/Box squat. Other leg work should include lunges and step ups

    Next master the jumping technique. Learn how to squat low but not too low (the ass to grass does not apply to vert. jumping) and explode to full extension of all 3 joints.

    Then work on plyometric work.

    Exercises should include: ankle jumps, squat jumps, box jumps and BOX DROPS (the best exercise, you can also add a jump after the drop which makes it even more better), bounds, etc. Add on uni-lateral (single leg) exercises and you can also add on weight to these exercises as well by holding a med. ball/ weight plate.
    i honestly think that people should forget about all those "plyometric" exercises and just focus on jumping as high as they can, and practice dunking if theyre trying to dunk
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  9. #129
    Registered User KAFitness's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by miscerzhatehim View Post
    i honestly think that people should forget about all those "plyometric" exercises and just focus on jumping as high as they can, and practice dunking if theyre trying to dunk
    You're opinion on specificity is correct. However, you can't just throw plyometrics out the window. How do you think you perform a jump? If you want to jump or dunk you have to be explosive and powerful (plyometrics).

    "PT (plyometrics) is effective in improving vertical jump ability" and "PT is more effective in improving vertical jump performance in the SSC (stretch-shortening cycle, the whole premises of plyometrics) jumps as it enhances the ability of subjects to use the elastic and neural benefits of the SSC".

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...09/pdf/349.pdf
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  10. #130
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    Originally Posted by Heimdalll View Post
    should you isolate your calves? Does it help vertical and what exactly you should do calf raises on machine basic 3sets 10 reps?
    anyone?
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  11. #131
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    Originally Posted by Heimdalll View Post
    anyone?
    You could isolate your calves. First focus on improving the strength in the calves. 3x10 is fine. Try 4x10,8,6,4. Really focus on slowly dropping the body (eccentric) and explosively raising the body (concentric). This slow and fast movement will help your vert.

    After you've built a base in strength, power, and joint coordination, work on plyometrics. Keep it specific to jumping and step off the machines.

    You could do ankle jumps, weighted ankle jumps, depth jumps, squat jumps, etc.
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  12. #132
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    Originally Posted by KAFitness View Post
    You could isolate your calves. First focus on improving the strength in the calves. 3x10 is fine. Try 4x10,8,6,4. Really focus on slowly dropping the body (eccentric) and explosively raising the body (concentric). This slow and fast movement will help your vert.

    After you've built a base in strength, power, and joint coordination, work on plyometrics. Keep it specific to jumping and step off the machines.

    You could do ankle jumps, weighted ankle jumps, depth jumps, squat jumps, etc.
    Thanks! Should I do them on machine or with dumbbells?
    Last edited by Heimdalll; 09-28-2014 at 11:26 AM.
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  13. #133
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    Originally Posted by Heimdalll View Post
    Thanks! Should I do them on machine or with dumbbells?
    Personally I believe machines limit you because it doesn't mimic the natural movement (as a whole body movement) of a vertical jump so I would suggest dumbbells.
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  14. #134
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    Originally Posted by KAFitness View Post
    Personally I believe machines limit you because it doesn't mimic the natural movement (as a whole body movement) of a vertical jump so I would suggest dumbbells.
    what plyometric exercises do you recommend on top of my jumping? what is your vertical leap btw?
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  15. #135
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    Originally Posted by miscerzhatehim View Post
    what plyometric exercises do you recommend on top of my jumping? what is your vertical leap btw?
    Like i stated before hand, exercises should include: ankle jumps, squat jumps, box jumps and depth drops (the best exercise, you can also add a jump after the drop which makes it even more better), depth jumps, bounds, etc. Add on uni-lateral (single leg) exercises and you can also add on weight to these exercises as well by holding a med. ball/ weight plate.

    Other weight training exercises can include hang cleans, and clean shrugs, and power cleans (although these take practice and proper instruction to master). Make sure to shrug and raise onto the toes. To add, any movement that generates angular velocity at the hip, knee, and ankle joint will help improve your vert jump.

    The first joint that generates the most angular velocity is the hip (focus first on this joint), then knee (next), then ankle (last).

    If you may ask, my vertical jump is 34", recorded less than 6 mths ago by my colleagues using a Vertec jump analyzer.
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  16. #136
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    Originally Posted by KAFitness View Post
    Like i stated before hand, exercises should include: ankle jumps, squat jumps, box jumps and depth drops (the best exercise, you can also add a jump after the drop which makes it even more better), depth jumps, bounds, etc. Add on uni-lateral (single leg) exercises and you can also add on weight to these exercises as well by holding a med. ball/ weight plate.
    Please don't perform depth drops and especially depth jumps unless you are qualified. i.e. Strong enough in the squat and able to return force without compromising foot/knee structure. This usually means quite a bit of time needs to be spent being introduced to plyometric training

    Also, NEVER externally load depth jumps - for a number of reasons.
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  17. #137
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    Originally Posted by krakkerz View Post
    Please don't perform depth drops and especially depth jumps unless you are qualified. i.e. Strong enough in the squat and able to return force without compromising foot/knee structure. This usually means quite a bit of time needs to be spent being introduced to plyometric training

    Also, NEVER externally load depth jumps - for a number of reasons.
    Agreed. A good base in strength, jump technique, and joint coordination should be mastered first before performing exercises such as depth drops/jumps.
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  18. #138
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    Guys, need your input on this.

    I'm training three times a week with my basketball team and I'm doing the Jump Manual training as well.

    The Jump Manual mentions rest/recovery days, those are the days I'm playing with my team.

    So my question is:

    Am I killing my gains by playing ball during the recovery days ?

    Thanks guys!
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  19. #139
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    Originally Posted by MikaHell View Post

    Am I killing my gains by playing ball during the recovery days ?
    You shouldn't have to worry. Depends on how intense your practices are. But then again I don't expect your practices to be solely focused on intense jumping and ploy metrics exercises.
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  20. #140
    Registered User proslayer93's Avatar
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    vertical jump cant increase anymore

    my age is 21 and my height is 5'10 ..
    below is my workout list :

    1. dumbbell walking lunges 70 reps
    2. chin up 5x7 (7 is my current best)
    3. rope skipping 3x300
    4. depth jump 4x12
    5. kneeling jump 3x10

    the picture attached is my vertical jump record ...
    1st line is the place where i can touch the 10ft rim before this training ..
    2nd is the 1st week after the training .. (7 days)
    3rd is 2nd week .. (14 days)
    4th is after a month (30 days ) .. and it never increase until now (60 days ) ..
    total training days is 60 days and this is my maximum reach ..

    my vertical jump seem cant increase anymore even i increase the reps for my exercise ...
    is there any workout can i do to break the plateau?
    tools and accessories that i can access currently are pull up bar and a pairs of 10 lbs dumbbell as i went to a rural place for my internship ..
    the internship duration are 9 months and i cant access to any gym as the nearest one are 3 hours away ...



    any advise?

    p/s : im asian
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  21. #141
    Registered User krakkerz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by proslayer93 View Post
    my age is 21 and my height is 5'10 ..
    below is my workout list :

    1. dumbbell walking lunges 70 reps
    2. chin up 5x7 (7 is my current best)
    3. rope skipping 3x300
    4. depth jump 4x12
    5. kneeling jump 3x10

    the picture attached is my vertical jump record ...
    1st line is the place where i can touch the 10ft rim before this training ..
    2nd is the 1st week after the training .. (7 days)
    3rd is 2nd week .. (14 days)
    4th is after a month (30 days ) .. and it never increase until now (60 days ) ..
    total training days is 60 days and this is my maximum reach ..

    my vertical jump seem cant increase anymore even i increase the reps for my exercise ...
    is there any workout can i do to break the plateau?
    tools and accessories that i can access currently are pull up bar and a pairs of 10 lbs dumbbell as i went to a rural place for my internship ..
    the internship duration are 9 months and i cant access to any gym as the nearest one are 3 hours away ...



    any advise?

    p/s : im asian
    I am nearly 100% certain that you are doing depth jumps wrong and that you are too weak and inexperienced to use them.

    Increasing the reps will do nothing for you vertical jump.

    Increasing load and doing jump exercises you are qualified to do might.
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  22. #142
    Registered User proslayer93's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by krakkerz View Post
    I am nearly 100% certain that you are doing depth jumps wrong and that you are too weak and inexperienced to use them.

    Increasing the reps will do nothing for you vertical jump.

    Increasing load and doing jump exercises you are qualified to do might.
    my vertical jump did increase for few inches in the 1st month and then it stops ..
    as i mentioned , i do not have any other accessories other than a pair of 10 lbs dumbbell ..
    can u suggest any exercise for me? i will do anything to get the last few inches
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  23. #143
    NSCA CPT, CSCS Spartacus81's Avatar
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    1. Proper nutrition. If youre not eating right, or enough you wont get stronger.

    2. Watch your jump on video. Are you dropping you shoulder? Are you powering down? Are you slowing down? Try keeping your shoulders up. Dont bend your knees a lot and power down (as in change your momentum down then trying to jump up). Keep up speed while going to basket. I have seen a lot of tall guys who could almost dunk. Half an hour of coaching these techniques and they can dunk.

    3. Stretch your arms really good. Being a lil more flexible helps you reach farther. can give you 2 more inches of reach if your shoulders are tight. Are you a one legged or two legged jumper?

    4. Do plyos every 3 days. Rest your legs. They get stronger and bigger while you heal.

    5. Are you overtraining?

    If you could put up a vid of your jump I could help you more. I am 5.9 with shoes on and 198lbs. I can dunk with left arm off one foot. I cant dunk with right arm. Im right handed. My left arm stretches better. Flexibilty. I can easily grab rim off two feet. If a short, beaten knees 33 year old can do it, So can you. I have tore my ACL, Meniscus and sprained my ankles over 20 times each. I never thought Id be the same after the acl. If you tell yourself you will fail, you will. Try to post a vid.
    There should be a picture of Dexter Jackson on the IFBB mandate.
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  24. #144
    Registered User proslayer93's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Spartacus81 View Post
    Are you a one legged or two legged jumper?
    im two legged jumper .. cant even touch the rim when i jump off one legs ..
    im a left hander .. height is 178cm .. weight is 66kg
    i will pm the video for u soon ..

    for now i need some workout to increase more vertical jump .. as currently i only 3 inches above the rim (without the ball) ..
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  25. #145
    Registered User krakkerz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by proslayer93 View Post
    my vertical jump did increase for few inches in the 1st month and then it stops ..
    as i mentioned , i do not have any other accessories other than a pair of 10 lbs dumbbell ..
    can u suggest any exercise for me? i will do anything to get the last few inches
    One legged squats. This may be a suitable replacement for higher threshold work. When you can manage three, you'll be getting close to being able to benefit from plyometrics. When you can do about 5 with a 20kg plate, you'll be getting close to being able to benefit from depth jumps.

    Natural Glute Ham Raises. Hamstrings are horribly ignored - especially in bodyweight programs.

    Single leg deadlifts.

    In reality, I'm prepared to bet that you're about as close as you are going to get without getting significantly stronger.
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  26. #146
    Registered User proslayer93's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by krakkerz View Post
    One legged squats. This may be a suitable replacement for higher threshold work. When you can manage three, you'll be getting close to being able to benefit from plyometrics. When you can do about 5 with a 20kg plate, you'll be getting close to being able to benefit from depth jumps.

    Natural Glute Ham Raises. Hamstrings are horribly ignored - especially in bodyweight programs.

    Single leg deadlifts.

    In reality, I'm prepared to bet that you're about as close as you are going to get without getting significantly stronger.

    thanks! i will include the glute ham raises into my workout .. and maybe include some stretches to increase my flexibilities ..
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  27. #147
    NSCA CPT, CSCS Spartacus81's Avatar
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    Learn how to jump off one leg. You will get higher.
    There should be a picture of Dexter Jackson on the IFBB mandate.
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  28. #148
    Registered User jbakes's Avatar
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    I purchased his twice the speed product and so far I've been ripped off. The login info that I signed up with doesn't get me into anything with any content. No emails with workouts, no hard copies of workouts, nothing. I've emailed time after time after time and I get absolutely NO reply from them.
    I've used some of his "FREE" stuff from Youtube and I like the content. Unless they call me back and actual provide support real soon, I'd say stay away. I paid $49 for absolutely nothing. Growing very impatient with their lack of support.

    Originally Posted by TwiceTheSpeed View Post
    If you have any questions about any of our programs you can post on our facebook fan page too :-)

    We are not a scam hah...we help athletes attain their goals with well structured workouts suitable for specific goals.


    Hate or love, I appreciate the interest in our brand, and am happy to answer any and all questions!
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  29. #149
    Athlete Brah Heimdalll's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jbakes View Post
    I purchased his twice the speed product and so far I've been ripped off. The login info that I signed up with doesn't get me into anything with any content. No emails with workouts, no hard copies of workouts, nothing. I've emailed time after time after time and I get absolutely NO reply from them.
    I've used some of his "FREE" stuff from Youtube and I like the content. Unless they call me back and actual provide support real soon, I'd say stay away. I paid $49 for absolutely nothing. Growing very impatient with their lack of support.
    The thread is old as hell and the program too I don't even know if that Jack guy is still in the business. Sorry to say but this forum ain't gonna help you but as I remembered all the workouts were listed on the site itself it wasn't PDF or any email.
    Squat: 152,5kgx5
    Bench: 85x5
    Deadlift: 180kgx1

    Programs done:
    Starting Strength - 7month
    PHUL - 12 weeks

    Currently doing - Madcow's 5x5
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  30. #150
    Registered User miscerzhatehim's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Spartacus81 View Post
    Learn how to jump off one leg. You will get higher.
    it differs among people, a good example is james white(one leg) vs gerald green(two foot). one thing that i've noticed though is that you can get a lot more distance with the one foot jump. the two foot jump is more vertical.
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