Is it fair to blame Islam for ISIS?

[perrierAX]

Is it fair to attack Islam because of the actions of ISIS?

I have come across people taking the actions of ISIS and placing the blame squarely on Islam. Just had me wondering, how does that even make sense?

I am completely aware of the arguments used by anti-Islam/Muslim writers such as Robert Spencer and others that believe the religious extremists are those that are following their religion more closely than others, i.e. are good Muslims and more practicing than those that are non-violent.

One of the problems is that this argument is always shifting. So as an example, there are different extremist groups around the World, and they do have differing ideologies, different methods of operation. Al-Qaeda are not the Taliban, who are not Boko Haram who are not Al-Shabaab. All of these groups as an example are unique, have different backgrounds and such.

The most common argument I've heard is that Al-Qaeda are 'good' Muslims, i.e. they live the religion as the Prophet lived it, they are doing what the Quran and hadith command. But now we have ISIS. A group that Al-Qaeda have distanced themselves from, they consider ISIS too extreme. Most of the World's recognised terrorist groups have distanced themselves from ISIS. Most extremist preachers (that support Al-Qaeda) have condemned the actions of ISIS and warned people about the group. If Al-Qaeda, which some people out of ignorance or an ulterior-agenda are being portrayed as perfect Muslims according to the Quran, then where do ISIS stand according to these people, are they even better Muslims from the perfect Muslims that are Al-Qaeda?

As a Muslim, it comes across as nothing but an attempt to smear the religion. And the fact that the religion stands firm on such issues (i.e. terrorism, killing) I feel there is clearly a hidden agenda.

I am looking for well-thought out responses, trolls and stupid people will be ignored.

[tsbalr120]

Yes.

[Streetbull]

Is it fair to attack Islam because of the actions of ISIS?

I have come across people taking the actions of ISIS and placing the blame squarely on Islam. Just had me wondering, how does that even make sense?

I am completely aware of the arguments used by anti-Islam/Muslim writers such as Robert Spencer and others that believe the religious extremists are those that are following their religion more closely than others, i.e. are good Muslims and more practicing than those that are non-violent.

One of the problems is that this argument is always shifting. So as an example, there are different extremist groups around the World, and they do have differing ideologies, different methods of operation. Al-Qaeda are not the Taliban, who are not Boko Haram who are not Al-Shabaab. All of these groups as an example are unique, have different backgrounds and such.

The most common argument I've heard is that Al-Qaeda are 'good' Muslims, i.e. they live the religion as the Prophet lived it, they are doing what the Quran and hadith command. But now we have ISIS. A group that Al-Qaeda have distanced themselves from, they consider ISIS too extreme. Most of the World's recognised terrorist groups have distanced themselves from ISIS. Most extremist preachers (that support Al-Qaeda) have condemned the actions of ISIS and warned people about the group. If Al-Qaeda, which some people out of ignorance or an ulterior-agenda are being portrayed as perfect Muslims according to the Quran, then where do ISIS stand according to these people, are they even better Muslims from the perfect Muslims that are Al-Qaeda?

As a Muslim, it comes across as nothing but an attempt to smear the religion. And the fact that the religion stands firm on such issues (i.e. terrorism, killing) I feel there is clearly a hidden agenda.

I am looking for well-thought out responses, trolls and stupid people will be ignored.

If Christians were sawing off heads and shouting, "I behead this Muslim because Jesus is merciful!", you'd be screaming your head off about Christianity.

[Malaki100]

Is there a similar group from another religion?

[FlyingGrenades]

If Christians were sawing off heads and shouting, "I behead this Muslim because Jesus is merciful!", you'd be screaming your head off about Christianity.

The difference between this and reality is Christians aren't doing that.


Get back on the playing field instead of spouting stuff that isn't happening.

[perrierAX]

If Christians were sawing off heads and shouting, "I behead this Muslim because Jesus is merciful!", you'd be screaming your head off about Christianity.

Play the ball not the man.

And no I wouldn't. After experiencing prejudice/racism due to my skin colour and religious background in my life, I have made it a point to never be part of anything that smears or maligns others for whatever reason. I challenge you to find one post of mines on this forum where I have generalised or maligned any religion or race of people.

And I also have never called for the deaths of others, or for the nuking of certain parts of the World. I don't recall any of the Muslim posters on this board doing so, but I routinely see such posts on this board from others.

Anyway, back on topic please.

[NotoriousARAB]

If Christians were sawing off heads and shouting, "I behead this Muslim because Jesus is merciful!", you'd be screaming your head off about Christianity.

That's not true. My experience is that Muslims are very careful, for the most part, in lambasting another's religion for the actions of a minority. Otherwise we be citing the Iraq and Afghani wars as Christian aggression. Bush himself said that he's launching the wars against Muslims and doing God's work. Or what about American soldier station at Abu Ghraib?

Here's Bush:

In 2003 while lobbying leaders to put together the Coalition of the Willing, President Bush spoke to France�s President Jacques Chirac. Bush wove a story about how the Biblical creatures Gog and Magog were at work in the Middle East and how they must be defeated.

...

In the same year he spoke to Chirac, Bush had reportedly said to the Palestinian foreign minister that he was on �a mission from God� in launching the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan and was receiving commands from the Lord.

Here's Wiki:

Evidence given by Ameen Saeed Al-Sheik, detainee No. 151362, was reported by the Washington Post in May 2004: "They said we will make you wish to die and it will not happen [...] They stripped me naked. One of them told me he would rape me. He drew a picture of a woman to my back and made me stand in shameful position holding my buttocks."[31] "'Do you pray to Allah?' one asked. I said yes. They said, '[Expletive] you. And [expletive] him.' One of them said, 'You are not getting out of here health[y], you are getting out of here handicapped. And he said to me, 'Are you married?' I said, 'Yes.' They said, 'If your wife saw you like this, she will be disappointed.' One of them said, 'But if I saw her now she would not be disappointed now because I would rape her.' " [...] "They ordered me to thank Jesus that I'm alive." [...] "I said to him, 'I believe in Allah.' So he said, 'But I believe in torture and I will torture you.'"

But maybe you're right and Christians gonna Christian.

[perrierAX]

Is there a similar group from another religion?

I would say no.

But such a question would mean delving into the situation and not giving a simple one-worded answer, that is too simplistic and does not help understand the situation on the ground.

Groups like ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Boko Haram and others can operate when there are power-vacuums, when there's political uncertainty, turmoil - the best examples being Iraq and Syria today. We can look at those 2 countries and see exactly how ISIS emerged, what conditions allowed that group to become what it is today. The civil war in Syria and the situation in Iraq (possible break up of the entire country) helped make ISIS what it is today.

[squanto]

Islam is not innocent by any means. Brutal and bigoted bronze age myths supplying wellsprings of credulity to messianic arguments for violence are certainly something that we shouldn't give a pass to

But at the same time, it's mindless to not consider socioeconomic and geopolitical influences every bit as critically

[Malaki100]

I would say no.

But such a question would mean delving into the situation and not giving a simple one-worded answer, that is too simplistic and does not help understand the situation on the ground.

Groups like ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Boko Haram and others can operate when there are power-vacuums, when there's political uncertainty, turmoil - the best examples being Iraq and Syria today. We can look at those 2 countries and see exactly how ISIS emerged, what conditions allowed that group to become what it is today. The civil war in Syria and the situation in Iraq (possible break up of the entire country) helped make ISIS what it is today.

I agree that there is more to it that just religion. But Islam is definitely a key ingredient IMO.

[Streetbull]

For the OP...enjoy!!

“If I were in charge, [terrorists] would know that water boarding is how we baptize terrorists.”

"(Barack Obama) is not a man who sees America like you and I see America. Our opponent is someone who sees America, it seems, as being so imperfect that he’s palling around with terrorists who would target their own country. Americans need to know this."

"Only dead fish go with the flow."

[Harbinger]

[SteamedPotato]

I dont believe in painting all people of one religion with the same brush based on the actions of others.

[GreatOldOne]

No it's not exactly fair but that's what you get for taking orders from invisible people. Anybody else can say their invisible person is the same one you have and if they have poor behavior you get the blame too.

Crazy people doing murders need a hug and constant electricity. I know there is the electric chair angle of that comment but I mean peace and civilization which comes with basic human needs being met.

[wings_unhinged]

I'd say no, but it isn't black and white. Islam certainly has a share of the blame.

[poison]

The most common argument I've heard is that Al-Qaeda are 'good' Muslims, i.e. they live the religion as the Prophet lived it, they are doing what the Quran and hadith command.

Damn. So the good Muslims blew up the WTC?




Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by that.

[MuscleXtreme]

Yes

/thread

[Jonjo8558]

Damn. So the good Muslims blew up the WTC?




Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by that.

Read his post it's quite clear.

[Chowboy]

The perceived trouble with Islam and its' adherents is they come across as a bunch of ticking time bombs ready to go all Jihadi at the slight notion of being offended (Re: Boston Marathon). These potential behaviors get worse as their population density increases (Re: UK).

Now we all know that if a Jihadi wants to justify his/her blood thirst, there are plenty of verses that can allow/encourage said behavior - and there are plenty of radicals to affirm and rationalize same behavior. Bottom line...your religion was born from violence and rationalizes violent behavior.

Just my take on it and it's worth everything you paid for it

[bbsitum]

Only Islam is guilty for ISIS, and 90% of all other violence in world. Other religions are at piece with each other but they all confront with Islam. Muslims always have some reason to plot bombs. So in USA, so in India, so in China, so in Russia, so in EU.

[Chowboy]

The perceived trouble with Islam and its' adherents is they come across as a bunch of ticking time bombs ready to go all Jihadi at the slight notion of being offended (Re: Boston Marathon). These potential behaviors get worse as their population density increases (Re: UK).

Now we all know that if a Jihadi wants to justify his/her blood thirst, there are plenty of verses that can allow/encourage said behavior - and there are plenty of radicals to affirm and rationalize same behavior. Bottom line...your religion was born from violence and rationalizes violent behavior.

Just my take on it and it's worth everything you paid for it

Let me add to my post:

All philosophies, from Atheism to Zionism, have radicals but they are almost always an underwhelming minority. While the radicals may be a minority in Islam (may not be, who knows) they certainly are not a small minority.

[flairon]

Islam is an archaic, violent religion that should be forcibly contained in the middle east

[GreatOldOne]

Islam is an archaic, violent religion that should be forcibly contained in the middle east

We don't do that. Religions can go wherever they want.

People who act like ISIS can't go wherever they want.

[bbsitum]

Let me add to my post:

All philosophies, from Atheism to Zionism, have radicals but they are almost always an underwhelming minority. While the radicals may be a minority in Islam (may not be, who knows) they certainly are not a small minority.

They always ask Muslims at Fox if they condemn Al quaida or ISIS and Muslims always avoid answer. Quite majority of Muslims support extremists and it is not case in other religions.

[BonsaiBrah]

They always ask Muslims at Fox if they condemn Al quaida or ISIS and Muslims always avoid answer. Quite majority of Muslims support extremists and it is not case in other religions.

Probably best you don't watch Fox. If it was the majority that would be near one billion people that would be chaos brah.

[Spartan5364]

Islam = ISIS

[BioDiver]

Islam : ISIS :: Constitution : Tea Party

[perrierAX]

Damn. So the good Muslims blew up the WTC?

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by that.

What I mean is that certain anti-Islam/Muslim elements try to malign the religion by stating those responsible for terrorist attacks were in actual fact 'good Muslims' and merely carrying out the teachings of the religion.

The perceived trouble with Islam and its' adherents is they come across as a bunch of ticking time bombs ready to go all Jihadi at the slight notion of being offended (Re: Boston Marathon). These potential behaviors get worse as their population density increases (Re: UK).

Now we all know that if a Jihadi wants to justify his/her blood thirst, there are plenty of verses that can allow/encourage said behavior - and there are plenty of radicals to affirm and rationalize same behavior. Bottom line...your religion was born from violence and rationalizes violent behavior.

Just my take on it and it's worth everything you paid for it

Just to point out, there is nothing wrong with the word Jihad. Jihad is a noble concept.

Jihad is a good thing. In fact, the US and other Western nations as times have supported 'Jihad' when it was in their interest.

Only Islam is guilty for ISIS, and 90% of all other violence in world. Other religions are at piece with each other but they all confront with Islam. Muslims always have some reason to plot bombs. So in USA, so in India, so in China, so in Russia, so in EU.

Your wild generalisations are miles off.

Islam is an archaic, violent religion that should be forcibly contained in the middle east

Forcibly?

How do you feel about there being almost 3 million Muslims in the US?

U mad?

[ONtop888]

If Christians were sawing off heads and shouting, "I behead this Muslim because Jesus is merciful!", you'd be screaming your head off about Christianity.

Here's some of the issues that I have. People are horrified by a lot that they have seen. ISIS stoning a woman alive for adultery for example, which, according to hadiths, is the proper punishment for the crime. So, provided that there were valid witnesses, they are following Islam. Would you agree?

ISIS forcing Christians to pay the jizyah tax or convert to Islam or be executed is following the Quranic mandates and the exemplary actions of Muhammad when he conquered a territory. Would you agree?

If there is a kaffir amongst those subdued by ISIS then he is executed by beheading. Apostasy is punishable by death according to most Muslim scholars, isn't that correct?

I will concede that targeting some Christians and Yazidis only for death is NOT attributable to Islam nor is raping married women who cannot pay the jizyah tax. That is pure evil added on top of the aforementioned actions which I find to be despicable. Also, Islam does not condone murdering children which ISIS also seems fond of doing.

There is also the question of the "spoils of war" (ie, the houses/possessions and wives of deceased "enemy" fighters being given to the Islamic victors), which I have read more than a few times in the Quran and hadiths. Do you believe that this is foreign to Islam?

[flairon]

Forcibly?

How do you feel about there being almost 3 million Muslims in the US?

U mad?

How do you feel about 2 billion muslims in the world and the only thing you and your brethren are associated with is violence and death.

You ignorant?

You have never heard anyone say 'man im so thankful for that invention created.....by a Muslim'...ever. Nobody has ever praised the violence stopped or aid given...by a Muslim. Its a region propagated in countries filled with people that are ignorant, uneducated and/or not intelligent enough to be able to see that they are being controlled by an even more violent subsection of their religion and when it comes right down to it, ignorance and violence go hand in hand.