Joint Pain

[THEJOEL13]

Well I guess Father Time is catching up to me.
I've already had surgery on both knees ACL replacement in one and a meniscus repair in the other. Believe it or not my knees aren't the issue.
Right now my upper body is struggling. I started working out again seriously about 3 months ago. I've made great gains. I've added 10 quality pounds, my strength and endurance has gone way up. Two weeks ago I was doing flat bench and as I came down my right shoulder literally crunched. Instant pain but no lose of strength. I've also developed tendinitis in both of my elbows. Left arm it seems to be my tricep tendon, pain on the back of the elbow. The right pain is on the inside point of my elbow. I've started wearing elbow sleeves when I do upper body.
Yes I went to my ortho, the same guy who did my ACL. Seems I've compromised my bursa sac and my AC joint was inflamed and the tendinitis was diagnosed. I got a week of prednisone and now I've started a daily dose of Mobic today was dose #5. My pain has subsided some but I'm still just struggling.
What have you guys done, as you've gotten older, to help with joint pain? Supplements, routine etc?

[Mdenatale]

I don't think there are any OTC supplements that will make any drastic improvements in joint health/pain. At least not in my experience. My shoulders give me a lot of problems from baseball and general age.

Getting a good orthopedic doctor and physical therapist has been the best thing I've done. I had bursitis in my throwing shoulder. A shot of cortisone took care of that and hasn't come back for a few years now. The AC joint in my other shoulder is just getting old, lol. Cortisone has helped there too. Doc said there is no issue with getting cortisone in that joint on a "routine" basis, so long as it eliminates the pain for more that 6-9 months at a shot. The only other option is surgery to clean things up in there. I've had two shots. First lasted 6 months before the pain returned. It has been about a year since the second one. I had a nagging strain in my right forearm. A few weeks with a good PT took care of that.

For self treatment of joint pain I address with stretching and exercise. I warm up the painful joint, do very light, but very high rep exercises then stretch it out. Ice is my friend too

[THEJOEL13]

I don't think there are any OTC supplements that will make any drastic improvements in joint health/pain. At least not in my experience. My shoulders give me a lot of problems from baseball and general age.

Getting a good orthopedic doctor and physical therapist has been the best thing I've done. I had bursitis in my throwing shoulder. A shot of cortisone took care of that and hasn't come back for a few years now. The AC joint in my other shoulder is just getting old, lol. Cortisone has helped there too. Doc said there is no issue with getting cortisone in that joint on a "routine" basis, so long as it eliminates the pain for more that 6-9 months at a shot. The only other option is surgery to clean things up in there. I've had two shots. First lasted 6 months before the pain returned. It has been about a year since the second one. I had a nagging strain in my right forearm. A few weeks with a good PT took care of that.

For self treatment of joint pain I address with stretching and exercise. I warm up the painful joint, do very light, but very high rep exercises then stretch it out. Ice is my friend too

Thanks!!
I should have mentioned a started glucosamine on Monday also and I've scheduled a ART massage for next Friday specifically to work on my shoulder and left elbow.
The ACL surgery has caused me to give up softball, which I loved, so I don't want some joint pain to make me give up lifting which I also love.
It's almost an double edged sword to stay active.

[angrypenguin54]

I warm up a lot more now than I ever did before. For my first exercise of the day I usually start up with the bar and then will do 3 to 4 progressive warm up sets before I get to my working sets. If I get a real twinge or pain while I am using a lighter weight, I either back off or stop all together. Dont be afraid to come back to fight another day.

You have to get to really know your body and the difference between older joints and the beginnings of an actual injury. I also do a fair amount of stretching after my workout, especially focusing on my shoulders and lower back.

[WBNATL]

I'm over 40 and have been through the same issues with joint pain and tendinitis. It got so bad at one point, i had to stop benching and do chest presses with very light DB's. Supplementing with fish oil and taking joint rehab and keeping some pressure applied to the area with a compression sleeve all helped out greatly. It didn't heal the problem area completely, but enough to where I could workout with experiencing the pain while pushing through a rep.
What ever you decide to do or take, give yourself a break from lifting heavy and if at all possible try alternate exercises.

[MrNismo]

Get familiar with these names as these guys are some of the best I've found when it comes to correcting movement deficiences which are a very common cause of joint pain. I feel better now than I have in at least 5 years but still have a ways to go to correct so many years of bad movement patterns and poor posture.

They all have movement tests and correction exercise videos on Youtube:

Eric Cressey

Mike Robertson

Kelly Starret

[x-trainer ben]

Animal flex and


http://www.ergo-log.com/sets-of-6-8-...0-14-reps.html

[beachguy498]

I use Cissus and one I just picked up, Osteo Flex, it was on sale at Costco. It definitely works for me. I stopped taking it for about 12 weeks earlier in the year and I could feel the difference. Just simply bending down to pick things off the floor and my knees creak. I'm about 7-8 weeks back into some of my supps and I feel a lot better.

[JOHN GARGANI]

The ACL surgery has caused me to give up softball, which I loved, so I don't want some joint pain to make me give up lifting which I also love.
It's almost an double edged sword to stay active.

making concessions with our bodies is something we all have to go through as we get older....the doing everything approach that we get away with in our salad days, soon gives way to having to have a priority system as to which endeavor you consider more important.....

[THEJOEL13]

making concessions with our bodies is something we all have to go through as we get older....the doing everything approach that we get away with in our salad days, soon gives way to having to have a priority system as to which endeavor you consider more important.....

Isn't that the truth.
The Mobic seems to be helping. The elbow still hurts but I think it's just going to be more time to get healthy.
Hopefully the massage Friday will speed up the healing process.

[BB12s]

Over 40 here as well and really the best thing to do is give that area time to rest. Typically mine is in my right knee and just sucks, because my legs (calves) are my weak points. You have to get creative when those area's of your body are feeling pain and discomfort, but then it gives other area's of your body to get some extra gym time.

[gbnpc]

About to turn 40 exactly one month from now and I've been battling a shoulder joint issue for about 3 years now. Most likely a torn labrum so I've been told. My options by that MD were quit weight lifting, change the way I lift, or surgery & physical therapy afterwards. I chose option #2--change the way I workout. I had to modify & find alternative lifts that would prevent or lesson pain in my right shoulder while still accomplishing my goals. It hasn't been easy and I've had to lower the weight on some of my lifts, but over time, I've increased strength and pretty much overcome that shoulder pain without major changes to my routine

[THEJOEL13]

Well I had my first deep tissue massage today. Holy crap it was painful but in a good way. She gave a lot of attention to my shoulder and my elbow but worked everything on my back and upper body.
Hopefully this will help some.

[jba1]

I can only give you my own experience and not what I think you can do.

I found the supps. and such have no significant relief when working out with joint pain. Maybe OK with just everyday activities or are useful for the placebo affect.
Specific joint (wrist and one elbow) with arthritis...I use braces ( with doctors approval).
I stopped pushing the card with heavier weights (less weight and more reps). I now know my limits and abide by them.
I stretch before workouts which helps tremendously.
Isometric type yoga routines before workouts also helps.
I put more emphasis on compound exercises rather than isolation exercises.
When severe joint pain exists day after workout I extend my rest period.

Look this advice is coming from someone who will be 74 (almost twice your physical age). You being so much younger may not have make such dramatic changes. But the most important this is that joint pain is not enough of an excuse to stop working out.
Stick with it and adapt.....
Believe it or not, changing the emphasis to compound exercise, in my case, has produced some significant results in building muscle and increasing strength.

USMC....."Adapt and Overcome"

Good luck, hope this is useful to you,
Jim B

[Pablo Escovar]

Try this.

Lighten the load (a lot and stifle the ego) and do slow (panting down AND up), continuous tension partial reps. Don't bother counting reps. Time the length of the set instead. Shoot for TUT between 60 and 90 seconds. This phase of the set ends when you can't move the load at all in the bottom loaded stretch position. Hold in the loaded stretch for as long as you can stand it panting all the while. A set done this way will create intramuscular (no need for pressure cuffs) venous occlusion, and thus a nice pump with a fair bit of lactate accumulation (burn). The occlusion takes the type I fibers out of the recruitment picture so that the type II's can be recruited and fatigued without having to punish the joints by going heavy.

If you would like to keep the burn going and induce some microtrauma, then do negatives immediately after the isometric hold in the loaded stretch position. Use the same load. These hurt a lot (good pain), especially with pullups if you try keeping your hands up on the bar throughout the whole set. Try to minimize the rest between negatives. I time the negative phase of the set as well. So, I record TUT for the continuous tension partials and loaded stretch, and a time for the negative reps. I have been doing 30 negatives lately, so the total time for a compound or extended set has been in the neighborhood of 3 to 5 minutes. Needless to say, one set per exercise has been enough. I can feel a pump in the target muscles for an hour+ after the workout. Also, the targeted muscles feel shaky quivery all day after. If I have DOMS the next day, then I feel that the workout was most effective.

I'm 48 and going for "long and strong enough".

Peace

[tomrose9]

Try this.

Lighten the load (a lot and stifle the ego) and do slow (panting down AND up), continuous tension partial reps. Don't bother counting reps. Time the length of the set instead. Shoot for TUT between 60 and 90 seconds. This phase of the set ends when you can't move the load at all in the bottom loaded stretch position. Hold in the loaded stretch for as long as you can stand it panting all the while. A set done this way will create intramuscular (no need for pressure cuffs) venous occlusion, and thus a nice pump with a fair bit of lactate accumulation (burn). The occlusion takes the type I fibers out of the recruitment picture so that the type II's can be recruited and fatigued without having to punish the joints by going heavy.

If you would like to keep the burn going and induce some microtrauma, then do negatives immediately after the isometric hold in the loaded stretch position. Use the same load. These hurt a lot (good pain), especially with pullups if you try keeping your hands up on the bar throughout the whole set. Try to minimize the rest between negatives. I time the negative phase of the set as well. So, I record TUT for the continuous tension partials and loaded stretch, and a time for the negative reps. I have been doing 30 negatives lately, so the total time for a compound or extended set has been in the neighborhood of 3 to 5 minutes. Needless to say, one set per exercise has been enough. I can feel a pump in the target muscles for an hour+ after the workout. Also, the targeted muscles feel shaky quivery all day after. If I have DOMS the next day, then I feel that the workout was most effective.

I'm 48 and going for "long and strong enough".

Peace

I can only draw on personal experience, but when I was cutting I was using a keto diet which was high in Omega 3's and supplementing with Glucosamine Sulphate and my joints were fine. However, the last few weeks my joints have been a bit sore whilst reversing my diet and nutrient composition up to maintenance. Anyway, I put this down to the decrease in Omega 3's that I was consuming as I had substituted most of the fat out for carbs etc. Currently I've added both supplements back into my stack and it seems to be helping - although this might just be a placebo effect!

PS, the post I quoted above is gold. Great advice mate, going to implement this protocol into my training and see how I get on.

[InternetTuffGuy]

I use Cissus and one I just picked up, Osteo Flex, it was on sale at Costco...

Side note, you can get this in a generic form for about half the cost of the name brand. I started taking this along with fish oil about three weeks ago for joint pain. Seems to be kicking in and my joints, primarily my knees and right shoulder, have seen much improvement.

I listen to my body during my workout. If pain starts to creep in I evaluate if it's just an ache that I can work through or something more. Sometimes you just have to concede on certain days and eliminate a movement or save yourself for tomorrow.

[jba1]

Try this.

Lighten the load (a lot and stifle the ego) and do slow (panting down AND up), continuous tension partial reps. Don't bother counting reps. Time the length of the set instead. Shoot for TUT between 60 and 90 seconds. This phase of the set ends when you can't move the load at all in the bottom loaded stretch position. Hold in the loaded stretch for as long as you can stand it panting all the while. A set done this way will create intramuscular (no need for pressure cuffs) venous occlusion, and thus a nice pump with a fair bit of lactate accumulation (burn). The occlusion takes the type I fibers out of the recruitment picture so that the type II's can be recruited and fatigued without having to punish the joints by going heavy.

If you would like to keep the burn going and induce some microtrauma, then do negatives immediately after the isometric hold in the loaded stretch position. Use the same load. These hurt a lot (good pain), especially with pullups if you try keeping your hands up on the bar throughout the whole set. Try to minimize the rest between negatives. I time the negative phase of the set as well. So, I record TUT for the continuous tension partials and loaded stretch, and a time for the negative reps. I have been doing 30 negatives lately, so the total time for a compound or extended set has been in the neighborhood of 3 to 5 minutes. Needless to say, one set per exercise has been enough. I can feel a pump in the target muscles for an hour+ after the workout. Also, the targeted muscles feel shaky quivery all day after. If I have DOMS the next day, then I feel that the workout was most effective.

I'm 48 and going for "long and strong enough".

Peace

I worked out early this am....tried to follow.....great.
My pullups feel so much more productive?
Need this to change up my workouts.

You are right....hours later some muscles feel all pumped up!

Thank you

[Pablo Escovar]

Something else to keep in mind is that pain is the result of an inflammatory response. Acute inflammation is good (wound healing, muscle repair and remodeling) whereas chronic inflammation is bad. Brad Pilon has a nicely done presentation at http://www.inflammationtheory.com/#1 in which he talks about his theoretical link between chronic inflammation and a reduced ability to grow muscle. I think the factors that contribute to chronic inflammation also contribute to increases in joint pain.

Chronic overeating (six meals per day bulking cycle) induces a chronic immune response emanating from the gastrointestinal tract. All of that foreign matter continually entering the body forces the body to kick the innate defenses into high gear all of the time. An elevated core body temp after ingesting a large meal is due, in part, to the innate defenses.

I use a restricted feeding window (2 to 4 hours) to give my body a chance to have an immune system break.

Furthermore, I restrict my feeding window to the mornings so that my core body temp can be lower by bed time. A cooler body is an indication that inflammation is lower. Also, lower core body temps during sleep times are associated with greater sleep quality or efficiency. More slow wave, growth hormone producing sleep allows the body more time for repair and restoration.

[jba1]

Pretty interesting stuff....

Second morning with TUT.....lots to learn....lots of fine tuning...

Change of routine feels real good...I notice it is easier on the joints

May be a good idea to integrate it for next 3 or 4 months with my regular workouts......will see after a week or two of it.

Thanks for opening the door for me..i need a change..
Jim B

[Pablo Escovar]

Pretty interesting stuff....

Second morning with TUT.....lots to learn....lots of fine tuning...

Change of routine feels real good...I notice it is easier on the joints

May be a good idea to integrate it for next 3 or 4 months with my regular workouts......will see after a week or two of it.

Thanks for opening the door for me..i need a change..
Jim B

Jim,

Thanks for trying it. I aspire to reach the age of 73 and still be able to train regularly. My hat is off to you, Sir. My 48 year old body is already requesting special care. If only I could have restrained myself from doing the stupid training stuff that I did when I was 20. We must adapt and move on.

Pablo

[Nyergk]

always warming-up before work .
then you should use this quote, do only 2*10 one time a week on polyarticulary exercices,
and do the rest of the work on isolate exercice (pulley,etc...) or at 60 % of charge.

if you want a big solution try to use this quote for a time:
training twice a week for each big muscle:
day 1: 4*5 at 80% of 1rm (2*10rm) + 5* 5 at 60% of 1rm (1*25rm)
day 2 :8*10 at 60% of 1 rm (3*25 rm)
for arms do only 2*10 at 65% of 1rm twice a week.
this quote are very often used in powerlifting, your problems should disapeare.
if not use more isolate exercices on pulley.

[dmacdonal9]

Every injury I've had has eventually been fixed by a good physioterapist. I've held out in the past and let nagging issues pester me for a long time, but then I'll eventually go get it fixed and wonder why I didn't do it earlier. Two herniated discs, severe elbow tendonitis, carpal tunnel, De Quervain's (thumb problem), torn IT band, and some various shoulder mobility and psoas/hip flexor stuff. All easily fixed once I saw the right person.

There's a lot of stuff we just can't fix ourselves.

[THEJOEL13]

The Mobic, rest and the deep tissue massage really have helped. I had some pretty great workouts over the weekend and I plan on having a massage at least once a month from now on.
Follow up is Friday the elbows are still bugging me some but not anywhere as bad and the shoulder seems to be at 95%.

[gacasasf]

Would it be nice if we could turn back the hands of time and keep what we know!!!!! In my case my weak spot is my lower back. Also I've had numerous injuries due to I should say bad technique, over training, etc. All of the advice from this tread is awesome. I suggest you try to work on your split to avoid over training. Also whenever you feel too tired or too achy rest. Remember is not about missing one workout but being able to train for years to come.