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  1. #1
    Finally accused of juicin Corbi's Avatar
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    Fine for me but not for thee?

    Now I know this "painting" was sanctioned by the mayor of NYC but then he is also not a fan of Trumps and chose that location on purpose obviously. That city will spend resources to repaint this when it is "vandalized" but are told to stand down towards rioters and others destroying public spaces, buildings, monuments, etc. The city will attempt to charge whomever tossed paint on this and yet can't be bothered to go after the people committing murders.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/bl...?ocid=msedgntp

    Same story with the St Louis McClouskey couple who defended their property, they hurt absolutely nobody and did nothing except prevent a mob from potentially hurting them, their dog and their property and yet the DA in that city is going after them full out in a total virtue signaling cause. You can riot, destroy, have BLM supporters holding rifles walk down streets threatening private citizens in their vehicles and nothing happens to any of them. But you damn well better not defend your own life or property.
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    In Witness Protection mtpockets's Avatar
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    Their house was searched and they lost the AR to evidence, I guess someone must think it's not a good idea to be waving guns at a peaceful protest

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    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Funny part.

    "Nice try," the mayor tweeted, along with a picture of a Department of Transportation crew repainting the mural.


    One has to wonder about how many countless pot holes which have probably been reported over and over go un fixed....yet within hours the DOT is mobilized to restore 'artwork'......
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    Finally accused of juicin Corbi's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    Their house was searched and they lost the AR to evidence, I guess someone must think it's not a good idea to be waving guns at a peaceful protest

    It's on video and nobody disputes it's their gun and it wasn't fired, how the hell is it needed for any evidence? And peaceful protest? So peaceful they ended up breaking private property and threatening the couple?
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    In Witness Protection mtpockets's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Corbi View Post
    It's on video and nobody disputes it's their gun and it wasn't fired, how the hell is it needed for any evidence? And peaceful protest? So peaceful they ended up breaking private property and threatening the couple?


    No idea, Not a lawyer or cop. Just what I read, I read elsewhere that it has been returned and the handgun was kept, also read apparently the handgun was inoperable


    St. Louis police on Friday seized a gun at the home of Mark and Patricia McCloskey, who were photographed outside their home pointing weapons at Black Lives Matter protesters in an image that went viral. Police said they were executing a search warrant when they seized a semi-automatic .223 caliber rifle, which matches the description of the weapon Mark McCloskey was seen holding.

    St. Louis Police Sergeant Keith Barrett said the weapon was seized as part of the investigation into the viral incident from June 28. Barnett did not name the McCloskeys, but the warrant was executed at their address.
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    Registered User 7Seconds's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Corbi View Post
    It's on video and nobody disputes it's their gun and it wasn't fired, how the hell is it needed for any evidence? And peaceful protest? So peaceful they ended up breaking private property and threatening the couple?

    Probably not a justification for deadly force, even in a castle doctrine state.

    Missouri's law is more extensive than the law in other states because it permits property owners to use the amount of force reasonably perceived as necessary, including deadly force. However, case law suggests it does not go so far as permitting the use of deadly force to merely protect property. In 2016, the Missouri Court of Appeals for the Eastern District held in State v. Whipple that deadly force under the castle doctrine can only be used when you reasonably believe such force is necessary to protect yourself or someone else from "the use or imminent use of unlawful force." Ultimately, it's an unclear issue that will likely need further clarification by the state judiciary or legislature.
    Personal opinion aside, and I think they look like untrained fools, legally speaking trespassing isn’t always justification for deadly force, and pointing your weapon at someone with finger on trigger shows some level of intent.

    Right or wrong it wasn’t real smart.

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    In Witness Protection mtpockets's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    Personal opinion aside, and I think they look like untrained fools, legally speaking trespassing isn’t always justification for deadly force, and pointing your weapon at someone with finger on trigger shows some level of intent.




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    Registered User acrawlingchaos's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    Probably not a justification for deadly force, even in a castle doctrine state.



    Personal opinion aside, and I think they look like untrained fools, legally speaking trespassing isn’t always justification for deadly force, and pointing your weapon at someone with finger on trigger shows some level of intent.

    Right or wrong it wasn’t real smart.

    https://statelaws.findlaw.com/missou...ense-laws.html
    Deadly force wasn't used, deadly force was threatened in defense by standing their ground.

    FWIW, trespassing by ripping the gates down and smashing a police cars on the way by shows some level of intent.
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    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    Personal opinion aside, and I think they look like untrained fools, legally speaking trespassing isn’t always justification for deadly force, and pointing your weapon at someone with finger on trigger shows some level of intent.

    Right or wrong it wasn’t real smart.

    https://statelaws.findlaw.com/missou...ense-laws.html
    What would trained folks' behavior look like? Just shout, "Get off my lawn?" - after a mob of non-peaceful protesters break through their fence?

    I have my concealed permit and from my own training, this couple acted appropriately for their rights and for their property.

    Where did they use deadly force? They were on their own private property and did not use deadly force. They were afraid for their lives.

    I would have behaved similarly.
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    Deadly force wasn't used, deadly force was threatened in defense by standing their ground.

    FWIW, trespassing by ripping the gates down and smashing a police cars on the way by shows some level of intent.

    I've been seeing 2 perspectives on the gate. Some say the gate was broken and then they entered their property. Others are saying the gate was broken after and the area they entered was a communal area and not part of their house. This video (starts at 27:30 or so) appears to show the gate open and them walking through it.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=3&v=7jRdd6T_DYQ

    Personally I don't think someone in fear of their life goes (seemingly) fairly calm outside of their house pointing guns at crowds. That's the best way to escalate the situation. They didn't try to keep their distance but actively approached the crowd. In my view that’s not a tactic sane people use who fear for their life. But my personal thoughts are irrelevant to the case. Fact is, they went outside brandishing guns. Whether they had a right to is for a court to decide.
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    You guys are waste in your time arguing with 7seconds about this.

    The new unwritten law for this is they are guilty for being white racists.

    The evidence is clear you must, absolutely MUST have BLM pro signs in your yard to remain SAFE in the NEW AMERICA!!!!

    That is the only protection you are allowed, if you stand on your property holding a gun you are just a white racist, because if you had a BLM sign you have NOTHING to worry about.

    Now El, what you gotta say to that?

    I’m starting to see who the real racists are these days.
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    That is the only protection you are allowed, if you stand on your property holding a gun you are just a white racist, because if you had a BLM sign you have NOTHING to worry about.
    In my opinion if they were just standing on their property, armed, none of this would have happened. Once you start pointing guns at people, loaded or not, you have entered a whole new sh*t storm. Using a gun in a “threatening” or “angry” manner is still illegal in Missouri. Whether it was justified or not is for others to figure out.
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    In my opinion if they were just standing on their property, armed, none of this would have happened. Once you start pointing guns at people, loaded or not, you have entered a whole new sh*t storm. Using a gun in a “threatening” or “angry” manner is still illegal in Missouri. Whether it was justified or not is for others to figure out.


    Well that’s you opinion, So im sure your fine with the KKK marching in front of YOUR house, no threats there right? You call the cops and they don’t show, now put yourself in that situation because no group a has the right to invade communities like that. We pay taxes to not allow that BS.

    Even the KKK has the RIGHT to protest.
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    Perspective. 30+ protesters, who torched and burned St. Louis - ARSONISTS who destroyed property, were let go.
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    I've been seeing 2 perspectives on the gate. Some say the gate was broken and then they entered their property. Others are saying the gate was broken after and the area they entered was a communal area and not part of their house. This video (starts at 27:30 or so) appears to show the gate open and them walking through it.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=3&v=7jRdd6T_DYQ

    Personally I don't think someone in fear of their life goes (seemingly) fairly calm outside of their house pointing guns at crowds. That's the best way to escalate the situation. They didn't try to keep their distance but actively approached the crowd. In my view that’s not a tactic sane people use who fear for their life. But my personal thoughts are irrelevant to the case. Fact is, they went outside brandishing guns. Whether they had a right to is for a court to decide.
    I didnt say they were in fear of life. They were trespassed. Castle doctrine allows you to use force to protect property. Brandishing is force.... it is not deadly force.
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Well that’s you opinion, So im sure your fine with the KKK marching in front of YOUR house, no threats there right? You call the cops and they don’t show, now put yourself in that situation because no group a has the right to invade communities like that. We pay taxes to not allow that BS.

    Even the KKK has the RIGHT to protest.

    If people are marching down my street and are screaming they want to kill me, is my gun loaded? Yes ( well it would be if I actually owned one.) Am I walking to the edge of the road and waving it at them? No.
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    If people are marching down my street and are screaming they want to kill me, is my gun loaded? Yes ( well it would be if I actually owned one.) Am I walking to the edge of the road and waving it at them? No.
    He was standing in front of his house, not the edge of the road, he was on HIS property, stop looking at it from only one way. Stop acting like the guy was trying start trouble, they invaded his community, that in itself is wrong, you need a mofo permit for that, again, why we pay taxes??
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    He was standing in front of his house, not the edge of the road, he was on HIS property, stop looking at it from only one way. Stop acting like the guy was trying start trouble, they invaded his community, that in itself is wrong, you need a mofo permit for that, again, why we pay taxes??
    You do realize there was two of them, right?
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    You do realize there was two of them, right?
    Who cares, the trouble makers are BLM they invaded a community without any authority, that’s called trouble makers, being black should not give them a pass, and they are getting a pass, so it’s the other phucking way around.
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Who cares, the trouble makers are BLM they invaded a community without any authority, that’s called trouble makers, being black should not give them a pass, and they are getting a pass, so it’s the other phucking way around.
    Let’s try again. I am not giving any protestors a pass.


    So, I'll say again what I have said all along. If they firmly believed their lives were in danger they should have taken actual firing positions and protected themselves.

    Otherwise all you're doing is flagging protesters and each other needlessly. If you're in a position where you're pointing a gun, you should be firing it, how do you justify the threat of deadly force if you're not acting on it. I feel like this is CCW 101.


    Obviously they were not capable of this which is why education on self defense concepts should be part of the responsibility of firearm ownership. You should have an understanding of how and when you are legally able to do what you do. Note I didn't say that weren't allowed to arm themselves. The line was crossed when they pointed firearms without the true intention of firing.

    People like this couple actually put gun ownership at risk for responsible owners, because they are so poorly trained and disciplined that had they actually shot someone, it would be another push to increase the bar for ownership.
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    Let’s try again. I am not giving any protestors a pass.


    So, I'll say again what I have said all along. If they firmly believed their lives were in danger they should have taken actual firing positions and protected themselves.

    Otherwise all you're doing is flagging protesters and each other needlessly. If you're in a position where you're pointing a gun, you should be firing it, how do you justify the threat of deadly force if you're not acting on it. I feel like this is CCW 101.


    Obviously they were not capable of this which is why education on self defense concepts should be part of the responsibility of firearm ownership. You should have an understanding of how and when you are legally able to do what you do. Note I didn't say that weren't allowed to arm themselves. The line was crossed when they pointed firearms without the true intention of firing.

    People like this couple actually put gun ownership at risk for responsible owners, because they are so poorly trained and disciplined that had they actually shot someone, it would be another push to increase the bar for ownership.



    Christ, it's called giving a warning, DUH, the right to own a gun and protect does not mean you need to be perfectly trained to handle a mob situation! Like I said, it's useless even arguing with you.
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    If people are marching down my street and are screaming they want to kill me, is my gun loaded? Yes ( well it would be if I actually owned one.) Am I walking to the edge of the road and waving it at them? No.
    Was not a public road. It was private property in a gated community. Gate had been ripped down and ALL the people were trespassing.


    People by all means can protest on public sidewalks or gather in public areas. They can NOT trespass on to private property. Given the current climate and split second changes from 'peaceful' to violent and even fatal consequences, I do not fault these homeowners one bit if they felt they had to protect their property.


    Just play the alt reel.... It is super easy to imagine if these people were not home, this house being overrun, looted, vandalized and burned. We would not see footage of this on the news, but you would see countless youtube vids of these 'protestors' destroying the place.

    Worse is imagining the footage if these people were not armed and tried to stop them. We would watch 5-6 people gang up and beat the husband and wife with endless kicks and punches. Hitting them with anything they can swing. Leaving them an empty bleeding lump on the ground. Next turning to see what they can take from the house.

    If you think that is an exaggeration, you are blind.....
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    On the whole, our society is increasingly gun-ignorant. The number of living situations where a gun is an essential tool or regularly used in any capacity have greatly decreased. Military participation among members of our society is lower than it's ever been. We are gradually losing our gun-knowledge cultural while simultaneously expanding our inexperienced gun-owning culture. Overlap that with expansion and migration of the population into increasingly higher population density locations and the script practically writes itself. The clash between minority (gun owners) and majority (non-gun owners) already exists and it will only escalate. It's only a matter of time until the public harm from the minority of gun owners who lack the knowledge, faculty or temperament to act responsibly tips the balance between individual and group rights such that the public will choose to regulate the ownership of guns.

    Those of you who value 2nd Amendment rights can wait, eyes-closed, until this is forced upon us, more likely than not, in a clumsy, punitive way, by the majority who do not own a gun, or you can be proactive. At this point I think I prefer the latter approach and anyone who values the 2nd Amendment should be asking themselves what we need to do to make sure that everyone can use it safely.
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    What mr. 7seconds is not comprehending is we are living in a new world unlike yesterday, he keeps producing laws and what’s to paint this as classroom scenario........

    Sir, all due respect when cops don’t enforce laws and protect the tax payer, it’s up to the individual to defend their own property, if that means waving a gun to show people not to phuck your life, so be it.

    I’m speaking on a human level here, if this couple called the cops and they ignored them, it should be a closed case, if not, we all may have some fighting to do in life? It is said freedom isn’t free, people died for it.
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    The line was crossed when they pointed firearms without the true intention of firing.
    The line was crossed when they came onto private property. It makes no difference how they presented their guns. They wanted to make sure the protesters understood that they were going to protect their home...and they did. That lunatic prosecutor from St Louis should be kicked out on her ass. What a disgrace to the justice system...
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    I live about 15 minutes from where this happened. There is a lot going on with this incident. First, gate broken v not broken, whatever. It is a gated community, once you trespass I don't see how a protest is peaceful after breaking into a gated community. These people came on private property. I've seen the entire evolution of Michael Brown, now this. The fact of the matter is, we only truly know what this meme says. It is a big-time news deal here of course.
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    Otherwise all you're doing is flagging protesters and each other needlessly. If you're in a position where you're pointing a gun, you should be firing it, how do you justify the threat of deadly force if you're not acting on it. I feel like this is CCW 101.


    Obviously they were not capable of this which is why education on self defense concepts should be part of the responsibility of firearm ownership. You should have an understanding of how and when you are legally able to do what you do. Note I didn't say that weren't allowed to arm themselves. The line was crossed when they pointed firearms without the true intention of firing.

    People like this couple actually put gun ownership at risk for responsible owners, because they are so poorly trained and disciplined that had they actually shot someone, it would be another push to increase the bar for ownership.
    You are dead wrong on damn near every aspect here, so you say if a gun is pointed it should / needs to fired? The police and military would love to hear your theory on this. The only thing these folks are guilty of is having poor trigger discipline.
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    Originally Posted by Corbi View Post
    You are dead wrong on damn near every aspect here, so you say if a gun is pointed it should / needs to fired? The police and military would love to hear your theory on this. The only thing these folks are guilty of is having poor trigger discipline.
    Seems to me that responsibility in firearm ownership for self defense is different, perhaps it is not. Either way neither of them exhibited those values with their actions.
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    Originally Posted by Fishman15 View Post
    The line was crossed when they came onto private property. It makes no difference how they presented their guns. They wanted to make sure the protesters understood that they were going to protect their home...and they did. That lunatic prosecutor from St Louis should be kicked out on her ass. What a disgrace to the justice system...
    I don’t disagree the prosecutor is a political hack. Still doesn’t mean that at least the woman could be criminally negligent under Missouri law.
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    Seems to me that responsibility in firearm ownership for self defense is different, perhaps it is not. Either way neither of them exhibited those values with their actions.


    Again, you FAIL to comprehend the current situation, all your "lawyer" BS means nothing when you as a citizen (a tax paying one) can't depend on the cops to show up when called and enforce law and order.

    They could have just started shooting, they didn't because they did what most law-abiding citizens would do, give warnings before killing, thugs usually shoot first, and we are seeing the shoot first/destroy first on the other side, the so-called protest/riot/BLM side.
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