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  1. #1
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    Are LabDoor rankings reliable? Many good proteins got bashed hard.

    *****://labdoor.com/rankings/protein

    Based on this list a lot of proteins are pretty much rated 'crap' because of 'ingredient safety' based on quality.
    I don't really get the ingredient safety section. Pretty much anything containing any form of artificial sweeteners have red ingredient safety ratings. Does anyone have a premium account here who can tell me why these products are rated so low? (the damn site needs premium accounts to read the full report) I don't know if artificial sweeteners are dangerous, but I haven't seen any long-term studies on HUMAN subjects showing that they pose a health risk in any form. Please share if you have read any reliable studies on this.

  2. #2
    MauiAthletics.com powercage's Avatar
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    No, they arent
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    I'm pretty sure your wrong, but care to elaborate...

    Disclaimer: The above post is my personal opinion and does not represent the official position of any company or entity. It does not constitute medical advice.

  3. #3
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    The MP Muscle Gel Shot is #9...I think that says it all.

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    They gave Body Fortress Whey a B.
    My secret? Texting between sets.

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    Originally Posted by eatyourspinach View Post
    They gave Body Fortress Whey a B.
    CEO of LabDoor here. We get called out about our Body Fortress rankings a lot, so I'm going to answer this directly:

    1. Yes, Body Fortress products have amino acid fillers. Their Whey Isolate (#6 in value, #18 in quality) has 2.51g of free aminos per serving and their Whey Protein (#22 in value, #38 in quality) has 8.22g of free aminos per serving. We perform full amino acid profiling on every protein supplement on our site.

    2. We subtract this free amino acid content from each product's protein content before ranking them. Our grades and rankings are based on each product's true bound protein content. Both products were also penalized* for their label inaccuracies.

    3. After these corrections, their Whey Isolate has 26.5g of bound protein per 36g serving. That is a 74% protein concentration, the same percentage as Optimum Gold Standard. Their Whey Protein has 18.6g of bound protein per 33g serving. That is a 50.3% protein concentration, which is still slightly above average for this category. Body Fortress prices their products well below average, which allows them to rank relatively well for value.

    *Label accuracy matters to us, but active ingredients are what drive LabDoor's rankings the most. A supplement that claims 30g of protein and delivers 25g will beat one that claims 20g of protein and delivers 20g.

  6. #6
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    Originally Posted by neilthanedar View Post
    CEO of LabDoor here. We get called out about our Body Fortress rankings a lot, so I'm going to answer this directly:

    1. Yes, Body Fortress products have amino acid fillers. Their Whey Isolate (#6 in value, #18 in quality) has 2.51g of free aminos per serving and their Whey Protein (#22 in value, #38 in quality) has 8.22g of free aminos per serving. We perform full amino acid profiling on every protein supplement on our site.

    2. We subtract this free amino acid content from each product's protein content before ranking them. Our grades and rankings are based on each product's true bound protein content. Both products were also penalized* for their label inaccuracies.

    3. After these corrections, their Whey Isolate has 26.5g of bound protein per 36g serving. That is a 74% protein concentration, the same percentage as Optimum Gold Standard. Their Whey Protein has 18.6g of bound protein per 33g serving. That is a 50.3% protein concentration, which is still slightly above average for this category. Body Fortress prices their products well below average, which allows them to rank relatively well for value.

    *Label accuracy matters to us, but active ingredients are what drive LabDoor's rankings the most. A supplement that claims 30g of protein and delivers 25g will beat one that claims 20g of protein and delivers 20g.
    So then how is Myprotein #2 if it has only 19g of protein which is on the lower end of the list?
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  7. #7
    #SelectTheBest kbayne's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by neilthanedar View Post
    *Label accuracy matters to us, but active ingredients are what drive LabDoor's rankings the most. A supplement that claims 30g of protein and delivers 25g will beat one that claims 20g of protein and delivers 20g.
    Nobody wants to support a company that says it has X amount of protein and comes back with less than what is on the label.

    So if a company claims 20 grams of protein and delivers 20 grams of protein, that should beat out the other competitor with false label claims.
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  8. #8
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    Originally Posted by neilthanedar View Post
    CEO of LabDoor here. We get called out about our Body Fortress rankings a lot, so I'm going to answer this directly:

    1. Yes, Body Fortress products have amino acid fillers. Their Whey Isolate (#6 in value, #18 in quality) has 2.51g of free aminos per serving and their Whey Protein (#22 in value, #38 in quality) has 8.22g of free aminos per serving. We perform full amino acid profiling on every protein supplement on our site.

    2. We subtract this free amino acid content from each product's protein content before ranking them. Our grades and rankings are based on each product's true bound protein content. Both products were also penalized* for their label inaccuracies.

    3. After these corrections, their Whey Isolate has 26.5g of bound protein per 36g serving. That is a 74% protein concentration, the same percentage as Optimum Gold Standard. Their Whey Protein has 18.6g of bound protein per 33g serving. That is a 50.3% protein concentration, which is still slightly above average for this category. Body Fortress prices their products well below average, which allows them to rank relatively well for value.

    *Label accuracy matters to us, but active ingredients are what drive LabDoor's rankings the most. A supplement that claims 30g of protein and delivers 25g will beat one that claims 20g of protein and delivers 20g.
    Then what matters to u is wrong,

    Brb claiming 50 grams of protein, getting 30 but hey that's more than 20/20

  9. #9
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    now i am even more confused.
    Used to be fat, now just fat with a lot of muscle.

    come check out my latest log: Layne Nortons Carbon line http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=169447773

  10. #10
    Registered User neilthanedar's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kennysvgp08 View Post
    So then how is Myprotein #2 if it has only 19g of protein which is on the lower end of the list?
    Good question. In that final example, I forgot a major caveat. Restated below:

    *Assuming both products have the same serving size*, a supplement that claims 30g of protein and delivers 25g will beat one that claims 20g of protein and delivers 20g.

    We used to simply compare products by "protein per serving" but found that this skewed the results significantly. We now use protein concentrations to compare protein powders.

    For Myprotein Impact Whey, 19.2g of protein per 25g serving size equals 76.9% protein concentration. 77% is high (only Integrated Supplements at #1 cleared 80%). Myprotein also features a relatively clean set of inactive ingredients, which supports its high ranking.

    Most protein powders have much larger serving sizes (Median: 35g, Mean: 36.8g). That makes it easier for these products to beat Myprotein on "protein per serving" but it doesn't change their protein concentration (measured in %).

    If I ruled the world, Nutrition Labels would list protein concentrations, not protein per serving. It's more honest, it helps consumers make apples-to-apples comparisons, and it incentivizes manufacturers to develop cleaner formulations.

  11. #11
    Registered User neilthanedar's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by braskibra View Post
    Then what matters to u is wrong,

    Brb claiming 50 grams of protein, getting 30 but hey that's more than 20/20
    Let's dig deeper into this example.

    Product 1: 50g serving size. Claims 50g of protein. Delivers 30g of protein.
    Product 2: 50g serving size. Claims 20g of protein. Delivers 20g of protein.

    Would you rather take Product 1 or Product 2? Product 1 delivers 1.5x more protein per gram than Product 2.

  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by powercage View Post
    That's not the entire story at all. For instance it could be collagen derived protein for the 30g, in which cause I would gladly take the 20g. There are many factors beyond total protein content.
    this

    also were any testing parameters released specifically regarding the analysis

    I'd like to know what the standard deviation is between different batches/lots but I am assuming there was only a single analysis for each protein

  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by neilthanedar View Post
    Let's dig deeper into this example.

    Product 1: 50g serving size. Claims 50g of protein. Delivers 30g of protein.
    Product 2: 50g serving size. Claims 20g of protein. Delivers 20g of protein.

    Would you rather take Product 1 or Product 2? Product 1 delivers 1.5x more protein per gram than Product 2.
    This has to be one of the stupidest fkn things I've read in a long time...
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  14. #14
    Do you ManiK yo? GetRippedInc's Avatar
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    Has to be the stupidest thought process I have every heard.
    Your rankings are laughable.
    Even giving anything but an F rating to a company that has clearly lied on the label and counted free form aminos to the total content is a joke. If the numbers don't match the they are misleading the consumer and nobody should be spending a penny on their products.
    Such much Placebo in here.

  15. #15
    Registered User rmaini's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by neilthanedar View Post
    Let's dig deeper into this example.

    Product 1: 50g serving size. Claims 50g of protein. Delivers 30g of protein.
    Product 2: 50g serving size. Claims 20g of protein. Delivers 20g of protein.

    Would you rather take Product 1 or Product 2? Product 1 delivers 1.5x more protein per gram than Product 2.
    lacking logic son

  16. #16
    Hates most people TMac26's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by neilthanedar View Post
    Let's dig deeper into this example.

    Product 1: 50g serving size. Claims 50g of protein. Delivers 30g of protein.
    Product 2: 50g serving size. Claims 20g of protein. Delivers 20g of protein.

    Would you rather take Product 1 or Product 2? Product 1 delivers 1.5x more protein per gram than Product 2.



    You can't be serious.


    Credibility = gone.


    Lying to a consumer is the shadiest thing in the world, regardless if "product one contains more protein" I want what I'm ****ing paying for on the label.
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  17. #17
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    I'd take the product that wasn't lying on principle, even with a lower protein content.
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  18. #18
    Registered User neilthanedar's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TMac26 View Post
    You can't be serious.


    Credibility = gone.


    Lying to a consumer is the shadiest thing in the world, regardless if "product one contains more protein" I want what I'm ****ing paying for on the label.
    This is really interesting. In our system, potency trumps accuracy. In your system, accuracy trumps potency.

    Label accuracy does impact LabDoor's rankings (controlling 10% of the total grades/rankings). For a lot of people, this factor is too low.

    For now, we'll have to agree to disagree.

    For the future, we're building a system that will let you customize our rankings. If you want label accuracy to be the only factor in the selection of your next protein powder, so be it. FYI — If LabDoor were to rate protein powders solely by their label accuracy, #1 would be Herbalife 24 Rebuild Strength.

    You can accuse LabDoor of a lot of things. We're slow. We're bad at explaining how we work. Our rankings are one-size-fits-all. We're not perfect. But we're making progress.

    Body Fortress Super Advanced Whey Protein used to claim 30g per serving. On August 29, 2014, we published a report stating that this product had only 20.6g of protein per serving after subtracting out free amino acid + creatine content. On September 23, 2014, Body Fortress re-released the same product with a label claim of 20g of protein per serving.

    Would I take Body Fortress products? No. There are protein powders out there that have a higher protein concentration AND are fully honest with their label claims. But if you're building a ranking system based on the latest test results + the latest label claims, Body Fortress isn't the worst.

  19. #19
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    There are plenty of companies on the market that provide 3rd party testing for accuracy of the label. You will find every poster on this board or educated consumer feels the same way about accuracy.


    The same ones who do not, are probably the same ones who believe that L-Arg is the godsend for pumps and you have to drink creatine with grape juice.
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  20. #20
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    Originally Posted by neilthanedar View Post
    This is really interesting. In our system, potency trumps accuracy. In your system, accuracy trumps potency.

    Label accuracy does impact LabDoor's rankings (controlling 10% of the total grades/rankings). For a lot of people, this factor is too low.

    For now, we'll have to agree to disagree.

    For the future, we're building a system that will let you customize our rankings. If you want label accuracy to be the only factor in the selection of your next protein powder, so be it. FYI — If LabDoor were to rate protein powders solely by their label accuracy, #1 would be Herbalife 24 Rebuild Strength.

    You can accuse LabDoor of a lot of things. We're slow. We're bad at explaining how we work. Our rankings are one-size-fits-all. We're not perfect. But we're making progress.

    Body Fortress Super Advanced Whey Protein used to claim 30g per serving. On August 29, 2014, we published a report stating that this product had only 20.6g of protein per serving after subtracting out free amino acid + creatine content. On September 23, 2014, Body Fortress re-released the same product with a label claim of 20g of protein per serving.

    Would I take Body Fortress products? No. There are protein powders out there that have a higher protein concentration AND are fully honest with their label claims. But if you're building a ranking system based on the latest test results + the latest label claims, Body Fortress isn't the worst.
    Why don't you just rank them based on facts and let the consumer decide what product is best for them

    Ranking should be label accuracy: Example: states 22g on label and tests at 22g+ with no free form aminos
    Ranking for most protein per serving using only non free form amino protein: Example: 34g serving size and 29g of protein(so carbs+fat+flavoring+thickeners=remainder)

    Any category where you are coming up with other weighted factors that you create is subject to Labdoors opinion and not fact.
    Such much Placebo in here.

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    I think most people here are being WAY too hard on this guy. He has told you over and over again what the purpose of his website is and so you are getting angry with him for nothing. If you guys want a website like his but one that focuses purely on accuracy instead, then go phucking make it yourself.

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    Thumbs down

    Originally Posted by Hockeyaus33 View Post
    I think most people here are being WAY too hard on this guy. He has told you over and over again what the purpose of his website is and so you are getting angry with him for nothing. If you guys want a website like his but one that focuses purely on accuracy instead, then go phucking make it yourself.


    lol. No.


    If you wish to be swindled by poor flaws in "testing" then go for it. But some of us like to be educated consumers and realize where our dollar is going.


    Would you go to a gas station pay for 50 bucks in gas, only to find out you got 40 bucks in actual gas, and 10 bucks in cheap additives? Or go to a place that is going to give you 50 bucks in actual gas?


    By this guys logic, "the higher the number in actual protein the better" not the label accuracy.


    Which is EXACTLY what is wrong.
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    Originally Posted by TMac26 View Post
    lol. No.


    If you wish to be swindled by poor flaws in "testing" then go for it. But some of us like to be educated consumers and realize where our dollar is going.


    Would you go to a gas station pay for 50 bucks in gas, only to find out you got 40 bucks in actual gas, and 10 bucks in cheap additives? Or go to a place that is going to give you 50 bucks in actual gas?


    By this guys logic, "the higher the number in actual protein the better" not the label accuracy.


    Which is EXACTLY what is wrong.
    to be fair, is he not subtracting out additives in regards to protein concentration? so even if its not meeting label claims he is taking that in account. hes just not hosing companies for label claims as long as whats actually in it is better than others...

    or i could have read this wrong. although i think label claims should play a big role in ranking companies myself regardless.

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    If you don't like his logic and ratings, then don't use them. Nobody's forcing you to buy your protein based off of his ratings.

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    The main issue here is the fact that the website is rating falsely labeled protein a high grade. If what comes back from the analysis doesn't meet the label claims, the protein should be rated, shady company using pixie dust.
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    Originally Posted by neilthanedar View Post
    Let's dig deeper into this example.

    Product 1: 50g serving size. Claims 50g of protein. Delivers 30g of protein.
    Product 2: 50g serving size. Claims 20g of protein. Delivers 20g of protein.

    Would you rather take Product 1 or Product 2? Product 1 delivers 1.5x more protein per gram than Product 2.
    Id take the one in which is telling the truth, at least I can account for my macros.

    Did you test PES, MTS, BPI? They have to be up there above 80%

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    So LabDoor's ranking system is not a series of mistakes, but intentional.

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    Disclaimer: The above post is my personal opinion and does not represent the official position of any company or entity.

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    People defending the website....think about the average Joe that comes across this website and sees these ratings like OP who asked if they were legit. No, they are not legit because companies that lie to you are towards the top of the list. We are arguing with this gentleman because his site is basically pushing amino spiking with the way they are ranking protein. You won't find educated forum members on here that support amino spiking because it's cheap and unethical business. Is it really that hard to ask companies to be honest? Advocating high rankings to proteins known for amino spiking is basically supporting amino spiking.

    Change your unethical rating system and stop supporting one of the big problems in the supplement industry.
    Progressive overload + progressive eating = gains. Simple as that!

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    again, it proves my suspicion that a nutless monkey is running the algorithm/ranking/grades
    i take it for granted that no hearer of mine will misinterpret what I have to say as the language of cynicism

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    Originally Posted by Neopragmatist View Post
    again, it proves my suspicion that a nutless monkey is running the algorithm/ranking/grades
    And we don't want that, especially the nutless part
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