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  1. #1
    Registered User NumeroOnce's Avatar
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    Let's be honest about the mess between Israel and Palestine in the Middle East

    Both countries are lead by a bunch of bloodthirsty savages. There is no right side to choose, besides the side of the innocent civilians on both sides caught up in the ideologies of their government. The Hamas are savages because they are brainwashed by a backwards religion, and if they had the technological and military capability to destroy Israel, they would do so in a heartbeat. It would be annoying to have them as neighbors, but how much of a threat are they, really?

    Israel, on the other hand, has killed WAY more civilians than Palestine has. Last time I checked, they had killed 400 Palestinian civilians compared to the 2 civilians they lost. And all we hear is their propaganda about how Israel must defend themselves, and then they do things like bomb a beach and kill 4 Palestinian children making sandcastles, or bomb areas the UN told them were civilian areas, and the US is still too afraid to firmly stand up to them. I think Israel is overachieving in the self-defense category, and are venturing into the "bully" category. Israeli leaders have suggested genocide and raping Palestinian women as means to "defend themselves." Israel is led by a man/psychopath who drove his own psychiatrist to commit suicide. Let that one sink in.

    I'd love to be all butterflies and rainbows about the situation and call for peace, but because of their history, each side is always going to hate the other. I just hate how Israel makes itself out to be a victim all the time, and America gets stuck helping them i.e. funding the Iron Dome with taxpayer money. And I'm pretty disgusted by Islam, even moreso than any other organized religion, but Hamas/Palestinians are either brainwashed, or just hiding behind their religion as justification to fight Israel and spread the words of their ****phile prophet.

    IMO, America shouldn't be trying to set up a peace agreement. This might be a case where we should use our military might and tell each side to cool it before we come through and show them what a war really is under the guise of stabilizing the region, although we all know what kind of reception here and abroad this would lead to. This is also an example of why the UN should have some type of military force, although I'm sure there are plenty of reasons against the UN having an army too.

    Discuss/enlighten me/show me where I am mistaken (which is possible)/in b4 lock
    Last edited by NumeroOnce; 08-02-2014 at 04:06 PM.

  2. #2
    Moderator ZenBowman's Avatar
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    Even if Israel magically disappeared, Palestine would be affected by sectarian strife, being bordered by Syria and Lebanon. And as we've seen in Syria, sectarian wars can be even more bloody than interreligious wars.

    There is no point looking for a solution, IMO the best foreign policy is to cut all aid to all parties in that region and withdraw.
    When all that says 'it is good' has been debunked, what says 'I want' remains.

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  3. #3
    Registered User NumeroOnce's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ZenBowman View Post
    Even if Israel magically disappeared, Palestine would be affected by sectarian strife, being bordered by Syria and Lebanon. And as we've seen in Syria, sectarian wars can be even more bloody than interreligious wars.

    There is no point looking for a solution, IMO the best foreign policy is to cut all aid to all parties in that region and withdraw.
    I agree... we can't keep poking our noses in calling for peace while funding one side... the US should either go in and tell everybody to stfu or we withdrawal completely and let them settle it. I tend towards the second option, as we have no real reason to be involved, but that never really stopped us before. If the US does decide to stay involved, then we should just go over there and end it ourselves. It makes slightly more sense sending our troops in that region, compared to us sending troops to Iraq.

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    Originally Posted by NumeroOnce View Post
    I agree... we can't keep poking our noses in calling for peace while funding one side... the US should either go in and tell everybody to stfu or we withdrawal completely and let them settle it. I tend towards the second option, as we have no real reason to be involved, but that never really stopped us before. If the US does decide to stay involved, then we should just go over there and end it ourselves. It makes slightly more sense sending our troops in that region, compared to us sending troops to Iraq.
    If US troops were fighting civilian causality would be lower?
    Ron Paul 2012

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    Should have posted this in the I/P sticky

    Anyway, Hamas wants Israel destroyed (proudly declares it) and broke numerous cease fires in this operation, also there are videos of them firing from hospitals, hiding rockets in UN schools and shooting down anyone who dares to oppose them from Gaza.

    A special note :
    Hamas does not want a Palestinian state, they want an Islamic rule on the land of Israel (without the pesky Jews of course, they can either GTFO or die as much are Hamas cares), this connects to the fact that Hamas and Fatah HATE each other and are only uniting to fight the common enemy, Israel.
    Just look at how Hamas persons brutally murdered Fatah in Gaza when Hamas took over completely there.


    Hard negotiating peace with religious nutties, mane.
    Hi.

  6. #6
    Registered User NumeroOnce's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LaBamba View Post
    Should have posted this in the I/P sticky

    Anyway, Hamas wants Israel destroyed (proudly declares it) and broke numerous cease fires in this operation, also there are videos of them firing from hospitals, hiding rockets in UN schools and shooting down anyone who dares to oppose them from Gaza.

    A special note :
    Hamas does not want a Palestinian state, they want an Islamic rule on the land of Israel, this connects to the fact that Hamas and Fatah HATE each other and are only uniting to fight the common enemy, Israel.
    Just look at how Hamas persons brutally murdered Fatah in Gaza when Hamas took over completely there.


    Hard negotiating peace with religious nutties, mane.
    My point exactly, Hamas is brainwashed by religion. I kind of look at them as ignorant children, and kind of pity them for being brainwashed. But, do they pose a serious threat?

    I see why people are upset that Hamas hides behind civilians, but does that give Israel an excuse to bomb everyone?

    Originally Posted by NYbrah View Post
    If US troops were fighting civilian causality would be lower?
    You're probably right, it wouldn't help any. I was just making that suggestion based on our recent military history of going into regions to "stabilize" them... if we can go into Iraq under the guise of stabilization, why not Gaza? But you're right, anytime we go to stabilize a region, it becomes more unstable. Iraqis dream of the good ole days now when Saddam was in charge.

    But I agree with ZenBowman... we should pull out completely and let them duke it out themselves.

  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by NumeroOnce View Post
    Both countries are lead by a bunch of bloodthirsty savages. There is no right side to choose, besides the side of the innocent civilians on both sides caught up in the ideologies of their government. The Hamas are savages because they are brainwashed by a backwards religion, and if they had the technological and military capability to destroy Israel, they would do so in a heartbeat. It would be annoying to have them as neighbors, but how much of a threat are they, really?

    Israel, on the other hand, has killed WAY more civilians than Palestine has. Last time I checked, they had killed 400 Palestinian civilians compared to the 2 civilians they lost. And all we hear is their propaganda about how Israel must defend themselves, and then they do things like bomb a beach and kill 4 Palestinian children making sandcastles, or bomb areas the UN told them were civilian areas, and the US is still too afraid to firmly stand up to them. I think Israel is overachieving in the self-defense category, and are venturing into the "bully" category. Israeli leaders have suggested genocide and raping Palestinian women as means to "defend themselves." Israel is led by a man/psychopath who drove his own psychiatrist to commit suicide. Let that one sink in.

    I'd love to be all butterflies and rainbows about the situation and call for peace, but because of their history, each side is always going to hate the other. I just hate how Israel makes itself out to be a victim all the time, and America gets stuck helping them i.e. funding the Iron Dome with taxpayer money. And I'm pretty disgusted by Islam, even moreso than any other organized religion, but Hamas/Palestinians are either brainwashed, or just hiding behind their religion as justification to fight Israel and spread the words of their ****phile prophet.

    IMO, America shouldn't be trying to set up a peace agreement. This might be a case where we should use our military might and tell each side to cool it before we come through and show them what a war really is under the guise of stabilizing the region, although we all know what kind of reception here and abroad this would lead to. This is also an example of why the UN should have some type of military force, although I'm sure there are plenty of reasons against the UN having an army too.

    Discuss/enlighten me/show me where I am mistaken (which is possible)/in b4 lock
    Actually no, israel shouldn't aim towards a cease-fire as the only reason the deathcount is so skewed is because Israel invests billions of dollars into defense where as hammas spent humanitarian aid not on their on people but on weapons. Hammas has proved time and time again they do not respect cease-fire if israel were to leave tomorrow the day after they would send rockets in. It's israel vs hammas in the eyes of the Israelis who do you think treasure more? Quit

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    Originally Posted by Bmeanie View Post
    Actually no, israel shouldn't aim towards a cease-fire as the only reason the deathcount is so skewed is because Israel invests billions of dollars into defense where as hammas spent humanitarian aid not on their on people but on weapons. Hammas has proved time and time again they do not respect cease-fire if israel were to leave tomorrow the day after they would send rockets in. It's israel vs hammas in the eyes of the Israelis who do you think treasure more? Quit
    mirin grammar

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    Originally Posted by NumeroOnce View Post
    My point exactly, Hamas is brainwashed by religion. I kind of look at them as ignorant children, and kind of pity them for being brainwashed. But, do they pose a serious threat?

    I see why people are upset that Hamas hides behind civilians, but does that give Israel an excuse to bomb everyone?


    Uhh yes they fail to kill Israelis because each time they fire rockets everyone in the area has to run ASAP to a bomb shelter.
    Is it an effective way of killing? Not quite.
    Is it an effective way of terrorizing millions of civilians and paralyzing their lives ? More than yes.

    Do you think the average American would give a **** about what is done to a terror strip of land which threats the safety of his children each and every day??
    Hi.

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    Originally Posted by NumeroOnce View Post
    IMO, America shouldn't be trying to set up a peace agreement. This might be a case where we should use our military might and tell each side to cool it before we come through and show them what a war really is under the guise of stabilizing the region, although we all know what kind of reception here and abroad this would lead to. This is also an example of why the UN should have some type of military force, although I'm sure there are plenty of reasons against the UN having an army too.
    1. America is already subscribed to Israel's idea of 'stabilizing' the region. Their compliance in aide of Israel through arms and munitions are indicative of this point as is their the support in US currency heading Israel's way as approved just a short time ago.

    2. Israel doesn't care about the UN. Since their inception they've had little interest in the 'UN' and their lofty and aloft ideas of monitoring and mediating. They've assassinated a UN mediator before they are not above doing it again if things look to be going other than they'd like.

    3. You're buying into a false narrative by giving some ill-placed historosity to the conflict between 'Palestinians and Israelis'/'Muslims and Jews'. European folk invaded the Levant under a false religious pretense and erected a state, usurped land gradually and systematically oppressed and destroyed the surrounding indigenous population. Aside from this blatant move of insidious aggression the relationship between the two faiths involved, prior to that, and outside of that region (even now) is fine. The issue is Zionism. The idea that European folk deserve to inhabit the Holy Land at the expense of those who already lived there.


    Your idea that Americas actual active political and military body isn't in solidarity with Israel's actions shows a deficiency in your understanding of America's Foreign Policy when it comes to Israel. Israel's actions as regards Palestine, Gaza, Hamas etc are completely an extension of the American Will in the Middle East.


    The bottom line is Israel needs Hamas to exist to give them an easy excuse to continue carrying out their evils and fortuitously enough -or in the light of providence- they've got it. However before Hamas's ascension to the forefront of the military face of the struggling occupied peoples who or what was Zionist Israeli's scapegoat for their land grabbing carnage? Israel just needs a convenient excuse to carry on their diabolical plans if it wasn't Hamas, it would be something else, anything else.

    The state of Israel was an evil undertaking in the beginning and it's consistently stayed so throughout their sixty plus years in existence. Unfortunately for those who are oppressed and subjugated to monsters.... “Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.” - Nietzsche
    I say this not calling Hamas a monstrosity as are the Zionist Israelis and their supporters, but I do say this in that Hamas and other Palestinians freedom fighters refusing to silently be forced from their lands that their predicament is a perilous one and their conduct is bound to be eroded as the force and support of their enemy continues to swell and loom above their struggle in such that their annhilation isn't of consequence to those who could do something about it.

    This(Zionist Israel in the Middle East) is one of those issues that we regard in Islam as a true 'fitnah': An imbroglio of human tribulation construed to such extremity that it is almost impossibly absolved.

    Let Israel continue their havoc as they will continue it. It's their destiny to do so as they will serve as a catalyst for events of retributional the future.
    Last edited by IbnKutub; 08-02-2014 at 05:10 PM.

  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by IbnKutub View Post
    1. America is already subscribed to Israel's idea of 'stabilizing' the region. Their compliance in aide of Israel through arms and munitions are indicative of this point as is their the support in US currency heading Israel's way as approved just a short time ago.

    2. Israel doesn't care about the UN. Since their inception they've had little interest in the 'UN' and their lofty and aloft ideas of monitoring and mediating. They've assassinated a UN mediator before they are not above doing it again if things look to be going other than they'd like.

    3. You're buying into a false narrative by giving some ill-placed historosity to the conflict between 'Palestinians and Israelis'/'Muslims and Jews'. European folk invaded the Levant under a false religious pretense and erected a state, usurped land gradually and systematically oppressed and destroyed the surrounding indigenous population. Aside from this blatant move of insidious aggression the relationship between the two faiths involved, prior to that, and outside of that region (even now) is fine. The issue is Zionism. The idea that European folk deserve to inhabit the Holy Land at the expense of those who already lived there.


    Your idea that Americas actual active political and military body isn't in solidarity with Israel's actions shows a deficiency in your understanding of America's Foreign Policy when it comes to Israel. Israel's actions as regards Palestine, Gaza, Hamas etc are completely an extension of the American Will in the Middle East.


    The bottom line is Israel needs Hamas to exist to give them an easy excuse to continue carrying out their evils and fortuitously enough -or in the light of providence- they've got it. However before Hamas's ascension to the forefront of the military face of the struggling occupied peoples who or what was Zionist Israeli's scapegoat for their land grabbing carnage? Israel just needs a convenient excuse to carry on their diabolical plans if it wasn't Hamas, it would be something else, anything else.

    The state of Israel was an evil undertaking in the beginning and it's consistently stayed so throughout their sixty plus years in existence. Unfortunately for those who are oppressed and subjugated to monsters.... “Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.” - Nietzsche
    I say this not calling Hamas a monstrosity as are the Zionist Israelis and their supporters, but I do say this in that Hamas and other Palestinians freedom fighters refusing to silently be forced from their lands that their predicament is a perilous one and their conduct is bound to be eroded as the force and support of their enemy continues to swell and loom above their struggle in such that their annhilation isn't of consequence to those who could do something about it.

    This(Zionist Israel in the Middle East) is one of those issues that we regard in Islam as a true 'fitnah': An imbroglio of human tribulation construed to such extremity that it is almost impossibly absolved.

    Let Israel continue their havoc as they will continue it. It's their destiny to do so as they will serve as a catalyst for events of retributional the future.
    lol?

    strong name to post ratio

  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by NoyC123 View Post
    lol?

    strong name to post ratio
    I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean.

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    We don't owe any of those fukers anything. Israelis and Arabs can go suck a dick.
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    Originally Posted by Astyanax View Post
    We don't owe any of those fukers anything. Israelis and Arabs can go suck a dick.
    "We don't owe any of those fukers anything. Israelis and Arabs can go suck a dick."
    -John Kerry

    Hate it when quotes are not attributed to who said it.

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    Originally Posted by NumeroOnce View Post
    Israel, on the other hand, has killed WAY more civilians than Palestine has. Last time I checked, they had killed 400 Palestinian civilians compared to the 2 civilians they lost. And all we hear is their propaganda about how Israel must defend themselves, and then they do things like bomb a beach and kill 4 Palestinian children making sandcastles, or bomb areas the UN told them were civilian areas, and the US is still too afraid to firmly stand up to them. I think Israel is overachieving in the self-defense category, and are venturing into the "bully" category.
    In international relations, we're used to seeing proportional responses to conflict because in most cases, a proportional response is all that is necessary to change the outcome of the conflict or retain some sort of equilibrium. Usually, you have two states where both have an interest in at least maintaining the perception that they care about their citizens, and neither has an interest in escalating the conflict beyond control (which is the risk in trying to move away from an equilibrium in your favor). But neither of these conditions are true with Hamas. Hamas doesn't see civilians, merely combatants on both sides, and so everyone is fair game. They don't care how many civilians die because in their view, the more civilians that are killed, the worse Israel's standing in the international community gets, and the more leverage the Palestinians achieve. The only way for Israel to really damage Hamas is by making it impotent (currently via destroying tunnels) and by convincing Palestinians that it does them more harm than good to support Hamas in its efforts.

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    BREAKING: Israel Promises No More Cease Fires… They’re Going to Destroy Hamas

    http://conservativetribune.com/no-more-ceasefires/

    Send 'em all to Hell, boys!
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    Originally Posted by LaBamba View Post
    Uhh yes they fail to kill Israelis because each time they fire rockets everyone in the area has to run ASAP to a bomb shelter.
    Is it an effective way of killing? Not quite.
    Is it an effective way of terrorizing millions of civilians and paralyzing their lives ? More than yes.

    Do you think the average American would give a **** about what is done to a terror strip of land which threats the safety of his children each and every day??
    They fail to kill Israelis because Israel has the US funded Iron Dome protecting them.

    Originally Posted by IbnKutub View Post
    1. America is already subscribed to Israel's idea of 'stabilizing' the region. Their compliance in aide of Israel through arms and munitions are indicative of this point as is their the support in US currency heading Israel's way as approved just a short time ago.

    2. Israel doesn't care about the UN. Since their inception they've had little interest in the 'UN' and their lofty and aloft ideas of monitoring and mediating. They've assassinated a UN mediator before they are not above doing it again if things look to be going other than they'd like.

    3. You're buying into a false narrative by giving some ill-placed historosity to the conflict between 'Palestinians and Israelis'/'Muslims and Jews'. European folk invaded the Levant under a false religious pretense and erected a state, usurped land gradually and systematically oppressed and destroyed the surrounding indigenous population. Aside from this blatant move of insidious aggression the relationship between the two faiths involved, prior to that, and outside of that region (even now) is fine. The issue is Zionism. The idea that European folk deserve to inhabit the Holy Land at the expense of those who already lived there.


    Your idea that Americas actual active political and military body isn't in solidarity with Israel's actions shows a deficiency in your understanding of America's Foreign Policy when it comes to Israel. Israel's actions as regards Palestine, Gaza, Hamas etc are completely an extension of the American Will in the Middle East.


    The bottom line is Israel needs Hamas to exist to give them an easy excuse to continue carrying out their evils and fortuitously enough -or in the light of providence- they've got it. However before Hamas's ascension to the forefront of the military face of the struggling occupied peoples who or what was Zionist Israeli's scapegoat for their land grabbing carnage? Israel just needs a convenient excuse to carry on their diabolical plans if it wasn't Hamas, it would be something else, anything else.

    The state of Israel was an evil undertaking in the beginning and it's consistently stayed so throughout their sixty plus years in existence. Unfortunately for those who are oppressed and subjugated to monsters.... “Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.” - Nietzsche
    I say this not calling Hamas a monstrosity as are the Zionist Israelis and their supporters, but I do say this in that Hamas and other Palestinians freedom fighters refusing to silently be forced from their lands that their predicament is a perilous one and their conduct is bound to be eroded as the force and support of their enemy continues to swell and loom above their struggle in such that their annhilation isn't of consequence to those who could do something about it.

    This(Zionist Israel in the Middle East) is one of those issues that we regard in Islam as a true 'fitnah': An imbroglio of human tribulation construed to such extremity that it is almost impossibly absolved.

    Let Israel continue their havoc as they will continue it. It's their destiny to do so as they will serve as a catalyst for events of retributional the future.
    You're preaching to the choir when you try to tell me about Israel and that Israel and America are aligned. Trust me, I know. And I'm quite aware that Israel was carved from Arab land and that they continue to kick Palestinians off their land to set up illegal settlements.


    The US can't openly support Israel because Israel is breaking plenty of rules and conventions when it comes to killing civilians. All America is doing is saying "Hey Israel, would you pretty please consider stopping that? Take your time though. Thanks." If this were any other country, US sanctions and possible military invasion would be in the works.

    Hamas and Zionists are equally as bloodthirsty. The only difference is, Zionists have more resources. Hamas has nothing but their terroristic rhetoric and a couple of rocket launchers that makes them a threat. You make a good point though, that Hamas gives Israel an excuse to take over Gaza.

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