Continuing to (try and) understand macros. Please help (:

[Lambo2579]

So, I've read the stickies several times and even done extra research regarding what my needs are in terms of meeting my macros, etc. The numbers always vary. My TDEE is between 2300 and 2800 (depending on which site, etc) and my recommended macros are between (approximate):

Carbs: 130g - 290g
Fat: 30g - 65g
Protein: 57g - 230g (a few people suggested 1.5g per body weight)

macro site 1 suggests:
50/25/25

site 2:
65/35/35

I'm 5'6 and currently 156. My goal is to (ideally) gain lean mass and lose fat. I use myfitnesspal to track my macros, and I am somewhat consistent and on target most of the time. I lift 3-4 days a week. Honestly, I'm not 100% sure if I'm at a stage of needing to bulk or cut...but because I want to gain more mass, I assume bulk. However, my bf% seems to be too high at the moment.

My question is, which recommendation seems more accurate? I've been following the same pattern of 55 carb 25 protein and 20 fat with 2251 cals for about 2-3 weeks now and I'm looking to lower my bf%.

Any help will be appreciated and measley reps given.

Thanks,
Brian

[Lambo2579]

Or tell me if I'm delusional and need to totally re-work my numbers altogether...I can take harsh criticism, brahs. I spend a lot of time in the misc, lol

[RedSoxBrah]

Sup brah,

You should aim for around 1g/lb of bodyweight from protein and 0.4g/lb of bodyweight from fat. Fill the rest with carbs. This is a good starting point and you can slightly adjust these numbers accordingly based on your needs.

Bulking and cutting at the same time isn't really feasible. If you're looking to put on muscle, your best course of action would be to slow bulk, i.e. eat in a small (200-300 calorie) surplus.

[Mdenatale]

If you read the stickies, then why are you using ratios?

Your macros are a function of grams per lb of BW. You want a MINIMUM of .8g/lb for protein and .4g/lb for fat. More is ok, but that is your daily minimum. You fill in the rest of your calories however you like with carbs or more protein and fat.


Also, don't try to lose fat and gain muscle as the same time. Pick which direction you want to go in most and do it.

[cls91]

^^ what the others said

Two things to add...

Doesn't matter what sites estimate your TDEE at; use that as a starting point and use real life trial and error to determine what it actually is. Monitory your weight fluctuations relative to your caloric intake over a period of time, and work backwards from there (using the approximation of 3,500 kcal = 1lbs).

Also, post a pic and we can give advice whether you should bulk or cut.

[Lambo2579]

Sup brah,

You should aim for around 1g/lb of bodyweight from protein and 0.4g/lb of bodyweight from fat. Fill the rest with carbs. This is a good starting point and you can slightly adjust these numbers accordingly based on your needs.

Bulking and cutting at the same time isn't really feasible. Your best course of action would be to slow bulk, i.e. eat in a small (200-300 calorie) surplus.

Sick lat spread in avi, bro. Slow bulk is my current path, so I'll just stay the current course. Your recommendation would be 156 protein 62.4 fat and the rest in carbs...how do I calc the carbs?

If you read the stickies, then why are you using ratios?

Your macros are a function of grams per lb of BW. You want a MINIMUM of .8g/lb for protein and .4g/lb for fat. More is ok, but that is your daily minimum. You fill in the rest of your calories however you like with carbs or more protein and fat.


Also, don't try to lose fat and gain muscle as the same time. Pick which direction you want to go in most and do it.

I like it. Thanks. I was using ratios because as I said, I read the stickies, but also a lot of outside info. I found ratios easier to understand at first...so that's what I stuck with. You and RedSox are pretty consistent with info, so appreciate the help guys.

Another question: Let's say my TDEE is 2300 and to slow bulk, it's 2500. Should I aim to eat 2500?

[cls91]

Sick lat spread in avi, bro. Slow bulk is my current path, so I'll just stay the current course. Your recommendation would be 156 protein 62.4 fat and the rest in carbs...how do I calc the carbs? Choose your caloric intake. Protein = 4 kcal/g, and Fat = 9 kcal/g. So 156*4 + 62*9...subtract that from your total caloric intake and you have the remaining calories for carbs. Divide those remaining calories by 4 (since carbs = 4 kcal/g) and that's your carb intake in grams. Keep in mind filling your remaining calories with carbs is a matter of personal preference, and if you prefer more protein or fat instead, then you can do so.

Another question: Let's say my TDEE is 2300 and to slow bulk, it's 2500. Should I aim to eat 2500? Going back to my first post, choose a number and stick to it. For example, eat 2,500 kcal. If you are not gaining 2-3lbs/month, adjust calories accordingly until you are

^ see bold

[Lambo2579]

^^ what the others said

Two things to add...

Doesn't matter what sites estimate your TDEE at; use that as a starting point and use real life trial and error to determine what it actually is. Monitory your weight fluctuations relative to your caloric intake over a period of time, and work backwards from there (using the approximation of 3,500 kcal = 1lbs).

Also, post a pic and we can give advice whether you should bulk or cut.

Thanks.

[cls91]

Thanks.

[img]http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a537/blamb2579/BB_com%20Misc/cutorbulk_zps63ac3faa.jpg[img]

I'd personally cut. You look to be >20%, so I wouldn't recommend adding more weight. If you do decide to keep bulking, make sure your surplus is kept low and I wouldn't continue for too much longer.

[Lambo2579]

I'd personally cut. You look to be >20%, so I wouldn't recommend adding more weight. If you do decide to keep bulking, make sure your surplus is kept low and I wouldn't continue for too much longer.

Appreciate it. I thought so, too...which means my numbers need to be totally re-worked. But now I get the whole "Protein is ___ x 4" and "Fat is ___ x 9", so the formula is there for me to work with. I've thought about continuing a slow bulk for now since the summer is coming to a close and then starting my cut in a couple/few months from now.

[VikingSean16]

I'd personally cut. You look to be >20%, so I wouldn't recommend adding more weight. If you do decide to keep bulking, make sure your surplus is kept low and I wouldn't continue for too much longer.

Please continue telling him to cut. He wont listen to me, lol. P.S. I'm his workout partner. We're hopefully starting P-90x in the next week or so. This should take care of the fat burning.

[Lambo2579]

You might sell me on the P90X, but I'm not doing the magical snake potion cleanse

[Mrpb]

P90x?

why not just do a proper weightlifting program and eat a 500 cal deficit?

[VikingSean16]

P90x?

why not just do a proper weightlifting program and eat a 500 cal deficit?

That works too, but the benefit of P-90x is it's slightly more intense on the cardio side. It forces you to do a workout that you might not push yourself as hard to do. I did this twice the results were phenomenal (even on a ice cream and pizza diet).

It's also 90 days of an intense workout. It makes up for the days you feel tired and groggy. Also, you end up 10x more flexible in the end resulting in better health later on. I did it and was able to do over 20 marine style pull-ups, 100 push-ups, and jump nearly twice as high. I had 2 pick-6's for a flag football team that I probably wouldn't have had without the plyometrics aspect of P-90x

[Mdenatale]

Don't do P90x if you are already lifting. There is no point. You can get the same fat loss from diet alone. Focus your energy expenditure on lifting.

[VikingSean16]

Don't do P90x if you are already lifting. There is no point. You can get the same fat loss from diet alone. Focus your energy expenditure on lifting.

Not exactly true. I was lifting and benching 275 at one point, squatting 415, and dead-lifting a good bit too, and after doing P-90x, I looked significantly different. I can post pictures, but I'm a noob and they wont let me. The main difference is the high intensity cardio aspect and the focus on body weight exercises.

[Mrpb]

I agree with Mdenatale. In my opinion doing P90x is counterproductive. Focus your energy on increasing/maintaining your LBM.

[Lambo2579]

P90x?

why not just do a proper weightlifting program and eat a 500 cal deficit?

Don't do P90x if you are already lifting. There is no point. You can get the same fat loss from diet alone. Focus your energy expenditure on lifting.

I agree with Mdenatale. In my opinion doing P90x is counterproductive. Focus your energy on increasing/maintaining your LBM.

@Sean...and so it begins, LMAO. Tried to tell you...

[VikingSean16]

@Sean...and so it begins, LMAO. Tried to tell you...

First question...have any of them done P-90x in its entirety (not 2 weeks and then quit...that doesn't count as doing it). I've done it twice, along with hardcore lifting in the years prior. If I'm a bad source, what's a good one look like, just sayin.

[cls91]

lol this thread took a turn since I left earlier.


@lambo...cut

@viking and @lambo...don't waste your time with p90x

Yes Viking, I have done it (not in it's entirety, I gave up after about 70 of the 90 days because I realized how pointless it was and I couldn't stand listening to those repetitive videos day after day)

Realistically, it will help him cut, yes, because it's cardio intensive and may help motivate him to burn those extra calories. But it doesn't focus on progressive overload, and since he will be cutting weight, it will be a slippery slope in terms of maintaining strength. If you've done it yourself and have had great results, thats great, but I highly doubt it's the optimal results compared to alternative options.

In my opinion there are 2 benefits of p90...

1. Burns a lot of calories
2. Motivates people

For #1, if you are committed enough that you are already working out and tracking your calorie/macro intake, then the fact that p90x helps you burn a lot of calories is quite irrelevant. For #2, similar idea, if you're already lifting, following a proper program, then you likely don't need the motivation from that guy (who btw reminds me of that creep from Donnie Darko). The fact that you guys are workout partners is enough to show that you don't need any extra motivation...you have each other. Bromance for life.


Although the p90x yoga I approve of. You're not going to the gym to do that, so incorporating some yoga into your routine on the side (without paying to attend classes) can be beneficial.

[Jcart159]

First question...have any of them done P-90x in its entirety (not 2 weeks and then quit...that doesn't count as doing it). I've done it twice, along with hardcore lifting in the years prior. If I'm a bad source, what's a good one look like, just sayin.

You my friend, have been brainwashed by this guy.



p90x offer no additional "fat burning" benefits. What if I started p90x, and at the same time started consuming 10,000 calories a day? Think I would still be melting the fat away? Weight loss/gain is determined by your diet, not the name of your workout.

[VikingSean16]

lol this thread took a turn since I left earlier.


@lambo...cut

@viking and @lambo...don't waste your time with p90x

Yes Viking, I have done it (not in it's entirety, I gave up after about 70 of the 90 days because I realized how pointless it was and I couldn't stand listening to those repetitive videos day after day)

Realistically, it will help him cut, yes, because it's cardio intensive and may help motivate him to burn those extra calories. But it doesn't focus on progressive overload, and since he will be cutting weight, it will be a slippery slope in terms of maintaining strength. If you've done it yourself and have had great results, thats great, but I highly doubt it's the optimal results compared to alternative options.

In my opinion there are 2 benefits of p90...

1. Burns a lot of calories
2. Motivates people

For #1, if you are committed enough that you are already working out and tracking your calorie/macro intake, then the fact that p90x helps you burn a lot of calories is quite irrelevant. For #2, similar idea, if you're already lifting, following a proper program, then you likely don't need the motivation from that guy (who btw reminds me of that creep from Donnie Darko). The fact that you guys are workout partners is enough to show that you don't need any extra motivation...you have each other. Bromance for life.


Although the p90x yoga I approve of. You're not going to the gym to do that, so incorporating some yoga into your routine on the side (without paying to attend classes) can be beneficial.

lol...good response and very logical. Yes, it definitely helps with having structure as well. I just prefer to burn fat through intensive cardio because I have a severe sweet tooth that I can only ignore for a couple weeks at a time. The additional benefits of P-90x are irrelevant to this discussion, but it promotes overall body health with the stretching, yoga, and jump training that you wont get from a gym workout....and yeah, Tony Horton is a huge creeper, but I found most of it funny (like when the females are doing downward dog in Yoga and he goes behind them to comment lol).

[VikingSean16]

You my friend, have been brainwashed by this guy.



p90x offer no additional "fat burning" benefits. What if I started p90x, and at the same time started consuming 10,000 calories a day? Think I would still be melting the fat away? Weight loss/gain is determined by your diet, not the name of your workout.

The name of the workout wasn't what sold me on it. It was the results. Yes, if you sit in the corner and eat brownies all day, you'll inevitably be fat. It offer additional "fat burning" benefits because it's high intensity cardio and because it's structured (which is an intrinsic value because you don't have to force yourself to do this on your own. It's already there and changes every 14 days). On the flip side, I was also able to cut 20-25 pounds by increasing my workouts and adding running and swimming to the mix, so it's not going to solve all the world's problems, but P-90x is a step in the right direction and has worked wonders for me. It's hard enough that I can't do all 90 days without doing it without a partner for accountability.

[cls91]

lol...good response and very logical. Yes, it definitely helps with having structure as well. I just prefer to burn fat through intensive cardio because I have a severe sweet tooth that I can only ignore for a couple weeks at a time.It's an hour video (if I remember correctly). Your gym workout is probably around the same. It may not be as cardio intensive, but if you throw in 15-20min cardio afterwards I'm sure the total calories burned would be very similar. The additional benefits of P-90x are irrelevant to this discussion, but it promotes overall body health with the stretching, yoga, and jump training that you wont get from a gym workout The plyometrics and yoga can be beneficial, but depends on your goals. Running 10 miles can be beneficial, but I hardly think powerlifters would focus on endurance running for their goals. You could always incorporate the Plyometrics and Yoga into your weekly routine though if you wanted those added benefits. For example, Push, Plyo, Pull, Yoga, Legs, Rest, Repeat....and yeah, Tony Horton is a huge creeper, but I found most of it funny (like when the females are doing downward dog in Yoga and he goes behind them to comment lol).

bold

[VikingSean16]

bold

I see what you're saying, and I agree. My only counter arguments are that Plyo and Yoga require more discipline because the progress isn't measured the same way with weights, so I think from a weight lifter's perspective, it's less desirable. Also, I'd be hard pressed to believe that (for most) the heart rates are the same with a traditional workout compared to P-90x. Those are the only significant differences. P-90x isn't needed because, yes, it can be substituted in other ways, but it's comprehensive, and I truly believe you'll work harder. If you're jacked and ripped, then yes, it's pointless, other than the flexibility and non-strength benefits I had already pointed out.

[Lambo2579]

lol this thread took a turn since I left earlier.


@lambo...cut

@viking and @lambo...don't waste your time with p90x

Yes Viking, I have done it (not in it's entirety, I gave up after about 70 of the 90 days because I realized how pointless it was and I couldn't stand listening to those repetitive videos day after day)

Realistically, it will help him cut, yes, because it's cardio intensive and may help motivate him to burn those extra calories. But it doesn't focus on progressive overload, and since he will be cutting weight, it will be a slippery slope in terms of maintaining strength. If you've done it yourself and have had great results, thats great, but I highly doubt it's the optimal results compared to alternative options.

In my opinion there are 2 benefits of p90...

1. Burns a lot of calories
2. Motivates people

For #1, if you are committed enough that you are already working out and tracking your calorie/macro intake, then the fact that p90x helps you burn a lot of calories is quite irrelevant. For #2, similar idea, if you're already lifting, following a proper program, then you likely don't need the motivation from that guy (who btw reminds me of that creep from Donnie Darko). The fact that you guys are workout partners is enough to show that you don't need any extra motivation...you have each other. Bromance for life.


Although the p90x yoga I approve of. You're not going to the gym to do that, so incorporating some yoga into your routine on the side (without paying to attend classes) can be beneficial.

This. My other concern is that I am in the habit of going to the gym 3-4 times a week now. Starting something different that pulls me away from the weights will make it that much more difficult to start lifting again after my heavenly blessed P90X transformational period. I personally prefer weights/diet/occasional cardio.

[Lambo2579]

also, @cls91, as of yesterday I adjusted my cals to 1900. My protein intake is 156, fat 62, and carbs are 183. Prolly incorporate one more cardio day for a while to see how it goes...at least for a couple weeks. Feelsgoodman.jpg