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  1. #5761
    Registered User OryxOryx's Avatar
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    I am on the F5 beginner program.

    1. My biggest problem on heavy back squats is that I sometimes end up doing the "good morning squat" thing. Did it today for my last couple reps at 243lbs. A bunch of reading has convinced me that one of the best ways to help with this is to improve quad strength. Other than the back squats and front squats I'm already doing for F5, would it be detrimental to add, say 3x8 or 2x10 barbell lunges or leg extensions to the end of my workout on back squat day, to help bring up quad strength? If that is a bad idea, any advice for bringing up quad strength beyond what I'm already doing on the F5 beginner routine?

    2. I workout Tues, Thurs, Sat. On Saturdays (because I'll have 72hrs rest before the next workout), just for fun, I like to add something fun/challenging at the end of the workout. Examples would be like working up to a heavy single deadlift. Or a heavy single push press. Or doing a 20-rep back squat set at around 75% of my current F5 working weight for squat. I do this for fun to bust out of the monotony of the routine. Is this a bad idea?

    3. My strength and slowed progress rate is starting to approach intermediate level (although squat is still lagging behind). I expect I'll need to move on to an intermediate program within the next couple months. But I am also looking to move into a lengthy (35-40lb) cut, obviously hoping to preserve as much muscle as possible. Can I do this on an intermediate program, or should I just continue on the beginner program even if I am just constantly stalling?
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  2. #5762
    Registered User TxMRF's Avatar
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    Are good mornings a suitable alternative to weighted back extensions?
    Fierce 5 U/L Workout Log: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=173977781&p=1493098341#post1493098341

    Please leave comments/feedback.
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  3. #5763
    Registered User tommy4life's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TxMRF View Post
    Are good mornings a suitable alternative to weighted back extensions?
    Yes.
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  4. #5764
    Registered User giokve's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tommy4life View Post
    Yes.
    What about RDLs instead of back extensions if I'm doing the upper/lower with deadlifts and lunges?
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  5. #5765
    I need about tree fiddy davisj3537's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by giokve View Post
    What about RDLs instead of back extensions if I'm doing the upper/lower with deadlifts and lunges?
    yes
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  6. #5766
    Registered User GazzMonkeyy's Avatar
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    What type of fly exercise do you recommend doing or doesnt it matter?
    Cable, dumbbell?
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  7. #5767
    Registered User RK42's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OryxOryx View Post
    My biggest problem on heavy back squats is that I sometimes end up doing the "good morning squat" thing. Did it today for my last couple reps at 243lbs. A bunch of reading has convinced me that one of the best ways to help with this is to improve quad strength.
    Maybe some of the real experts here can chime in, but I don't think the "squat morning" is necessarily the result of strength imbalance. It's more a question of finding the right cues, getting your form dialed in, and staying more tight.

    If you watch form videos, you will find all kinds of recommended cues. The same ones might not work for everybody. Try a few of the cues (one at a time!), and see which ones give you an improvement.

    Just to give you an example, one thing that has really helped me is to slow down my descent. And I wasn't even descending very fast. But then I watched videos of very strong power lifters, and noticed that at least some of them descend very slowly. I tried slowing it down, and it felt better. I think what happens is that when you reach the bottom position with some speed, the momentum can tip your upper body slightly forward. And if you're not in perfect balance coming out of the hole, it only gets worse as you come up.

    But it could be something completely different for you. Just keep studying videos, and work on it.
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  8. #5768
    Registered User LieutenantDan95's Avatar
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    I know you say it doesn't matter what ab exercise we do, but do you recommend one you think is best? Plain old sit-ups seem too easy.

    As for curls, do dumbbell or barbell curls matter? Is one better than the other?
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  9. #5769
    Registered User tommy4life's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LieutenantDan95 View Post
    I know you say it doesn't matter what ab exercise we do, but do you recommend one you think is best? Plain old sit-ups seem too easy.

    As for curls, do dumbbell or barbell curls matter? Is one better than the other?
    Im not Davis but I think he recommends lwg raises and ab wheels.

    At our level (beginer/intermediate) it doesn't matter. What ever you enjoyin doing more.
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  10. #5770
    Registered User giokve's Avatar
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    Are incline dumbbell rows an upward pull or an horizontal pull?
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  11. #5771
    We know lol Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LieutenantDan95 View Post
    I know you say it doesn't matter what ab exercise we do, but do you recommend one you think is best? Plain old sit-ups seem too easy.

    As for curls, do dumbbell or barbell curls matter? Is one better than the other?
    If it doesn't bother your wrists or elbows, opt for a straight barbell curl
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  12. #5772
    Registered User WolfRose7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LieutenantDan95 View Post
    I know you say it doesn't matter what ab exercise we do, but do you recommend one you think is best? Plain old sit-ups seem too easy.

    As for curls, do dumbbell or barbell curls matter? Is one better than the other?
    Pallof press for abs IMO.

    Curls I would go BB, but feel free to switch it up
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  13. #5773
    Registered User GazzMonkeyy's Avatar
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    One question
    I have been struggling with ny wrist for some months went to doctor and had /have to wear a brace but at work I always use my wrist to pick up stuff but when doing bb curls or yates rows i feel it, should i do them lighter and work up or switch it up with something else?
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  14. #5774
    Registered User ysq74's Avatar
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    Thx davisj3537 and others for all your help and the excellent program and info,
    I have been working out for couple years, focusing more on upper body than the lower unfortunately, but for the last several months I started working out my legs more regularly as well.
    I can go to GYM 5 days a wk, and I am liking the Intermediate UL/LPP program due to the variety of exercises and the frequency.
    My age is 43yr, the weights: Squat: 220lb, BB:198lb, OHP: 132lb

    I've got couple questions since ; what do you think about my workout below?: it is the Fierce 5 intermediate with few modifications? and the best progression method for my lower workout?

    Day 1- Lower (A)
    Squats 3x5
    Weighted Back Extensions 3x10
    Leg Press 3x10
    Leg Curls/Leg Extensions (superset 3x10)
    Ab work 3x15/Calf raises 3x12 Superset

    Day 2- Upper (A)
    Incline Bench 3x5
    Bench (hammer strength machine) 3x8
    Lat Pulldowns 3x8
    chest supported Rows (machine) 3x8
    Face Pulls 3x10
    Curls / Triceps (superset 3x8)

    Day 3 (REST)

    Day 4- Legs
    Front Squats (machine) 3x6
    RDL 3x6
    Glute Ham Raise x 3X10
    Leg Curls/Leg Extensions (Superset 3x10)
    Calf work 3x12/Shrugs 3x10 (Superset)

    Day 5- Push
    Bench (BB) 3x5
    OHP 3x5
    Fly 3x8
    Lateral Raises 3x10
    Overhead Extensions(long head iso)-3x10/Ab work-3x12 (Superset)

    Day 6- Pull
    Pendlay Rows 3x5
    Seated cable Rows - (Upward Pull) 3x8
    Lat Pulldowns 3x8
    Reverse Flies/Overhead face pulls (Superset 3x10)
    Curls 3x8

    Day 7 (REST)

    thank you so much,
    Last edited by ysq74; 07-29-2017 at 02:11 AM.
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  15. #5775
    Registered User antagonized's Avatar
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    Hey you guys!

    I've been following the intermediate UL/UL program for a bit over 6 months now, and I am in love with it.

    My girlfriend, who's been going to the gym for around 1 year, has been following what I do at the gym, so she's pretty much following this program also. HOWEVER, she skips any and all chest work, except OHP. I keep on telling her that her breasts won't get smaller simply because of doing chest work, and that it's relative to body fat, but she's not having it.

    I don't want her to get hurt in the future because of muscular imbalances, but she's stubborn to a fault. What would you guys recommend me telling her? She loves the lower part of the program (typical) but I want her to lift injury free for as long as possible.

    I'm no where experienced enough to make a program for her, and she's been loving F5 so far, but I really need her to do some chest work. Not sure how to proceed with this.
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  16. #5776
    Registered User WolfRose7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by antagonized View Post
    Hey you guys!

    I've been following the intermediate UL/UL program for a bit over 6 months now, and I am in love with it.

    My girlfriend, who's been going to the gym for around 1 year, has been following what I do at the gym, so she's pretty much following this program also. HOWEVER, she skips any and all chest work, except OHP. I keep on telling her that her breasts won't get smaller simply because of doing chest work, and that it's relative to body fat, but she's not having it.

    I don't want her to get hurt in the future because of muscular imbalances, but she's stubborn to a fault. What would you guys recommend me telling her? She loves the lower part of the program (typical) but I want her to lift injury free for as long as possible.

    I'm no where experienced enough to make a program for her, and she's been loving F5 so far, but I really need her to do some chest work. Not sure how to proceed with this.

    tough one buddy. Best you can do is explain the faults of training in an unbalanced way.
    Why does she skip chest work?
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  17. #5777
    Registered User SteinMandjes's Avatar
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    Gonna be starting this program after a couple months of me thinking that I knew what I was doing with a PPL, but I have made good progress. Couple questions tho is this program suitable for any age (I’m 15)? Is there an appropriate substitute for leg curls because I would rather do deadlifts than RDL but don’t have the leg curls machine. Also do the side delts get engaged enough in the press hence you didn’t include side lateral raises? Is direct abs 3x a week too much and when do you think you should be able to modify a program to improve on your weaknesses? Lastly what does this program have over Vikings Bare Bones besides simplicity and why would you recommend I start with Fierce 5?

    Edit: One more question should the last set be done to failure (unless form breaks down) or close to failure at least?
    Last edited by SteinMandjes; 07-30-2017 at 07:18 AM.
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  18. #5778
    Registered User TxMRF's Avatar
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    Running Fierce 5 UL

    So, I am moving later this week and cannot workout on Thursday and Friday.

    Would you suggest running this week like this

    Monday - Upper A
    Tuesday - Lower A
    Wednesday - Upper B
    Thursday - Off
    Friday - Off
    Saturday - Lower B (MAYBE, NOT SURE IF I CAN GET TO A GYM OR NOT)
    Sunday - off

    then back to normal with upper on monday.


    I've heard that you don't suggest 3 consecutive days. Would you suggest doing it like this or just take wednesday thru sunday off?
    Last edited by TxMRF; 07-30-2017 at 05:36 PM.
    Fierce 5 U/L Workout Log: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=173977781&p=1493098341#post1493098341

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  19. #5779
    hi Metalmank's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TxMRF View Post
    Running Fierce 5 UL

    So, I am moving later this week and cannot workout on Thursday and Friday.

    Would you suggest running this week like this

    Monday - Upper A
    Tuesday - Lower A
    Wednesday - Upper B
    Thursday - Off
    Friday - Off
    Saturday - Lower B (MAYBE, NOT SURE IF I CAN GET TO A GYM OR NOT)
    Sunday - off

    then back to normal with upper on monday.


    I've heard that you don't suggest 3 consecutive days. Would you suggest doing it like this or just take wednesday thru sunday off?
    Shouldnt be a problem. due to scheduling I am running U/L Tue-Fri with no rest inbetween. Life can get in the way, Just do what you can when you can and start back up normally next week
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  20. #5780
    Registered User TxMRF's Avatar
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    Second question

    I've stalled at 180lbs on bench.
    I've already dropped the weight 10% and have worked my way back to this weight and now I have failed again. All my other lifts are still progressing.

    Should I drop again, or attempt to complete this set for a third week?
    Fierce 5 U/L Workout Log: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=173977781&p=1493098341#post1493098341

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  21. #5781
    Registered User LioRiX's Avatar
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    HI, I was doing Good Mornings in Lower A on the U/L routine but I find it pretty uncomfortable.

    Is this a proper Weighted Back Extension exercise? (With plate in hands):
    https://www.google.co.il/search?q=כי...bPmHQFx73RAqM:

    Also, is that okay if my back will be in flexion when leaning down?

    EDIT:
    Or maybe RDLs as they will help me progress in Lower B's Deadlifts?
    Last edited by LioRiX; 07-31-2017 at 06:17 AM.
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  22. #5782
    Registered User TxMRF's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TxMRF View Post
    Second question

    I've stalled at 180lbs on bench.
    I've already dropped the weight 10% and have worked my way back to this weight and now I have failed again. All my other lifts are still progressing.

    Should I drop again, or attempt to complete this set for a third week?
    Would it be wise drop the weight again but do it with a 8/10 rep set to work my way up to the 5/6 rep sets?
    Fierce 5 U/L Workout Log: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=173977781&p=1493098341#post1493098341

    Please leave comments/feedback.
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  23. #5783
    Registered User TxMRF's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TxMRF View Post
    Would it be wise drop the weight again but do it with a 8/10 rep set to work my way up to the 5/6 rep sets?
    Another scenario that a random trainer at my gym suggested.

    Should I drop to 165 and do a 5x5 and a 5x6 back up to 180
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    Originally Posted by TxMRF View Post
    Another scenario that a random trainer at my gym suggested.

    Should I drop to 165 and do a 5x5 and a 5x6 back up to 180
    Reset the weight.

    Build back up and focus on form. Going to 5x5 /5x6 I dont see as necessary. 3x5 / 3x6 should be plenty, BUT if you really want to try 5x5 / 5x6 go ahead and see if that helps.
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  25. #5785
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    I'm so close to closing this thread. I hate it almost as much as the Fierce 5 novice sticky before I closed it. It's like a breeding ground for people asking questions already covered in the FAQ. When I closed the novice thread questions dropped by over 1000%. The ability to post in an already established thread instead of reading the FAQ or starting a thread is overwhelming...I get it. I appreciate the idea of a platform for fierce 5 lifters to network and ask questions. It's just a burden on me. If I log on for 90 minutes a day half of that can easily be spent in this thread. If I miss a few days it's overwhelming...like the last week I missed for a death in the family.

    I can't thank the guys putting in the work to answer questions enough. I try to spread as many reps in this thread as I can, but many of you doing this are always on spread. I'm a slow spreader I know. Reps on sight for life. You guys know who you are.



    If you guys have any ideas I'll be happy to entertain them, but if nothing changes this will close.
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    We know lol Farley1324's Avatar
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    I know what you mean.
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    We know lol Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TxMRF View Post
    Second question

    I've stalled at 180lbs on bench.
    I've already dropped the weight 10% and have worked my way back to this weight and now I have failed again. All my other lifts are still progressing.

    Should I drop again, or attempt to complete this set for a third week?
    What are your age, height, weight, typical daily calories and average weekly bodyweight gain? Which program are you running? How long have you been running it? How long were you able to keep up the scheduled weight increases before the first missed rep?

    I saw your question awhile ago but it gets really old seeing random stand alone posts with no supporting info and the guy expects a legitimate response. You have to put the effort in to know what relevant information needs included and put it in the post


    Originally Posted by TxMRF View Post
    Another scenario that a random trainer at my gym suggested.

    Should I drop to 165 and do a 5x5 and a 5x6 back up to 180
    Don't go changing sets and reps




    There needs to be some "If you want your question responded to in a meaningful way, include X YZ blah blah list of relevant information at the start to these things. Somewhere really easy to link people to...like just a post that's nothing but that and we can give them a link to that post
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    Originally Posted by Dani163 View Post
    What problem did you have with your L5-S1? Are there anything else than Bulging/Herniated disc or Piriformis Syndrome that triggers sciatica pain down to the foot? I can definitely feel that my lower back is somehow irritated just by sitting on a chair in a laid back position. When I went to the PT he told me also to do some ham flexibility exercises, the thing is I don't know if that will work with a inflamed muscle / lower back problem or both. Naproxen worked with me ONLY if I didn't go heavy on ham/gluteus exercises. Should I go more lighter on the RDL and Squat exercises then the rest of the exercises in the novice program? Also I switched the front squat exercise to leg extensions because I figured that's one of probably few exercises that doesn't irritate the inflamed muscle in my glutes and my mildly irritated lower back.
    It's probably too late now, I didn't see this post until just now...somehow. I think I'll PM this as well as post.

    My L5-S1 herniated, posterior and to the right, with nerve impingement, facet joint arthropathy (sp?), and some degenerative disc whatever. I learned the specifics when I finally got a damn MRI.

    Hamstring flexibility is a huge thing for sure IME. Rest it completely for awhile first if need be, and don't stretch to the point of any sharp back pain. I would never, personally, take an NSAID or pain reliever and then exercise/train while on it, for fear of masking the pain I should be feeling that is telling me STOP DOING THAT (I don't compete or this might be a more complex scenario, but I don't, so it's not).

    Do what you have to do just be aware that leg extensions don't compare to front squats, really.

    You need to get to where you can do the full range of motion of the exercises without pain. This IME means rest, stretching, and then starting out light and taking it slow as you work up...in that order (overall, not within a day, static stretching after lifting not before)
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    Originally Posted by davisj3537 View Post
    If you guys have any ideas I'll be happy to entertain them, but if nothing changes this will close.
    Straight up, you have a sh!tload more patience that I could muster.

    Huge props man, and condolences to you for the loss.
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    Well I guess RDL it is instead of back ext./good morning for U/L (doing DL and lunges in Lower B)

    I just wanted to hear your opinions though about using a belt for a 121lb OH Press and a 231lb DL (I weigh 143lb).
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