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  1. #5101
    Registered User gesler0811's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Rebinho View Post
    Does anyone know davisj suggestion, if you do lack someting?

    For an example, my arms are weak and so is my forearms, and my hamstring(Or rather my deadlift is down), then what? How should I add this? Just add 1 more set, or one more workout ?

    And I think about adding lateral raises to on the upper/lower intermediate too, since its a workout I am use to do alot and dont want to miss on those side delts, but my hams, and arms are lacking.
    If your arms/forearms/hamstrings are lacking, just follow the program. You don't have to do anything special to catch them up. My back was relatively weak compared to my chest when I started, and the program is in the process of sorting that out in terms of my back is progressing faster than my chest. If you just follow the instructions and have patience, I think you will find it will sort itself out as you follow the reset and deload protocols.

    As an example, when I started the intermediate U/L a few months ago, my bench was 180lbs and my Pendlay was 110lbs. Right now my bench is 185lbs (two resets later) and my pendlay is up to 150lbs. It's safe to say the "lagging" back muscles are gaining ground fast.

    Did you even attempt the novice program, or did you jump right into the intermediate? It might be worth hitting the novice for a while, and milking it for all it's worth.
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  2. #5102
    I need about tree fiddy davisj3537's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gesler0811 View Post
    If your arms/forearms/hamstrings are lacking, just follow the program. You don't have to do anything special to catch them up. My back was relatively weak compared to my chest when I started, and the program is in the process of sorting that out in terms of my back is progressing faster than my chest. If you just follow the instructions and have patience, I think you will find it will sort itself out as you follow the reset and deload protocols.

    Did you even attempt the novice program, or did you jump right into the intermediate? It might be worth hitting the novice for a while, and milking it for all it's worth.
    All of this. If you legitimately have lagging muscles then they will develop much faster than the others given that you're on a balanced program. They don't need additional work. Now if they aren't lagging and you just want them bigger then this won't work....that's the case 95% of the time when people say something is lagging.

    Second what you said about the novice program.
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    Originally Posted by davisj3537 View Post
    Now if they aren't lagging and you just want them bigger then this won't work....that's the case 95% of the time when people say something is lagging
    Yeah i should have elaborated on that, but ' do another program' was quicker to type
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  4. #5104
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    Bent over rows, over hand grip/ underhand grip or the in between one?

    As ive heard that the grip could effect which muscle group is worked. Overhand being upper back, underhand being more lats.
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  5. #5105
    We know lol Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TxMRF View Post
    Bent over rows, over hand grip/ underhand grip or the in between one?

    As ive heard that the grip could effect which muscle group is worked. Overhand being upper back, underhand being more lats.
    Overhand
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  6. #5106
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    1. If I do add lateral raises, in my routine, when can I add it, and how many times a week, and how many reps do is enough (I know you dont suggest this)?

    2. Can i do my own abs and calf routine, its much more then the routine. (Sorry, I am just stuck on Kelei's routine a bit, and I dont like huge changes)
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  7. #5107
    Registered User gesler0811's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Rebinho View Post
    1. If I do add lateral raises, in my routine, when can I add it, and how many times a week, and how many reps do is enough (I know you dont suggest this)?

    2. Can i do my own abs and calf routine, its much more then the routine. (Sorry, I am just stuck on Kelei's routine a bit, and I dont like huge changes)
    For what it's worth, I too came over to Fierce 5 from Kelei's routine. And yes, at first, it probably seems like a lot less volume than what you're accustomed to, mainly because you pretty much kill yourself with reps on Kelei. But if you just do the program, and do it correctly, I think your mental block will prove unfounded, because the progression will be challenging you in completely different ways in no time. In general, you push much heavier weight per rep on Fierce 5 than on Kelei's routine. It's a different style of training, but very effective. If I can give you one more piece of advice, just do the program as written, and give it some time, instead of just assuming you need to make all these modifications and tweaks. If you're so determined to make this more like Kelei's routine, then just go back to doing Kelei's routine.

    What I can say is if you make all these changes you're talking about, you're pretty much NOT doing Fierce 5 anymore, and the questions you're asking in this thread are moot.
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  8. #5108
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    Hi everyone, i just wanna say that am doing the intermediate upper lower since august 2016,

    am so glad, in august i was benching 175 lbs, now am benching 225 lbs!!!!! it´s awesome!

    my belly increase too, but am working in the diet...


    thank you very much for this program and support!
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  9. #5109
    Registered User TxMRF's Avatar
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    I failed OHP today on rep 3 of set 3.

    Does this mean next week I stay at 3x5, while all other movements move to 3x6?
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  10. #5110
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    Originally Posted by TxMRF View Post
    I failed OHP today on rep 3 of set 3.

    Does this mean next week I stay at 3x5, while all other movements move to 3x6?
    If you fail a lift 2 days in a row then drop the weight by 10% for the lift you failed and work back up.
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  11. #5111
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    Hi, I am looking to pick up the Upper/Lower work out. I noticed it has stated weighted back extensions but I have no equipment within the gym for this. Is there a possible alternative for this at all?
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  12. #5112
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    Originally Posted by jamiewb View Post
    Hi, I am looking to pick up the Upper/Lower work out. I noticed it has stated weighted back extensions but I have no equipment within the gym for this. Is there a possible alternative for this at all?
    Stiff leg deadlift
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  13. #5113
    Registered User manuel1987's Avatar
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    hello, i was looking around for a new program and decided to give this a shot.
    I have been working out for about 14 months now, 4-5 times a week, my progress has not been as great as i hoped for when i first started out but i am still happy with the results.

    i am 6.1, 185 lb and about 16% bf

    My max lifts right now are: (i dont really have 1RM)

    2 x 198 lb: Benchpress
    5 x 80 lb: Dumbbellpress

    220 lb: Back Squat

    3 x 176 lb Barbell row
    8 x 80 lb Dumbbell row

    264 lb: Deadlift (can lift a bit more then 264 but only with a slightly rounded back)

    6 x 62 lb: seated Dumbbell shoulder press
    My shoulder mobility isn't that great so i haven't really done a lot of OHP yet.

    As you can see my lifts aren't that great, i would love to improve them. I am just not sure if i should follow the intermediate or intermediate/advanced version.

    Chances are that i can't follow the schedule 100% so i might do a rest day more now and then.
    Last edited by manuel1987; 05-19-2017 at 11:00 AM. Reason: added barbell weight to lifts
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  14. #5114
    Registered User WolfRose7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by manuel1987 View Post

    (all barbell exercise weights are without the barbell) always add the barbell weight, I'll presume its a standard 45lbs?
    2 x 154 lb: Benchpress
    5 x 80 lb: Dumbbellpress

    176 lb: Back Squat

    3 x 132 lb Barbell row
    8 x 80 lb Dumbbell row

    220 lb: Deadlift (can lift a bit more then 220 but only with a slightly rounded back)

    6 x 62 lb: seated Dumbbell shoulder press
    My shoulder mobility isn't that great so i haven't really done a lot of OHP yet.

    As you can see my lifts aren't that great, i would love to improve them. I am just not sure if i should follow the intermediate or intermediate/advanced version.

    Chances are that i can't follow the schedule 100% so i might do a rest day more now and then.
    Your bench, if that is 200lbs is intermediate.
    Your squat and deadlift I would say are novice.

    So by that either the novice or the upper/lower.
    Are you planning to cut or bulk?
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  15. #5115
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    Your bench, if that is 200lbs is intermediate.
    Your squat and deadlift I would say are novice.

    So by that either the novice or the upper/lower.
    Are you planning to cut or bulk?
    I edited the post and added the barbell weight.
    Its a 20kg barbell so 44 pounds. I started bulking about 2 months ago and plan on bulking atleast another 8 months.

    The novice one doesn't come into question since i really enjoy going to the gym and i have the time. I also think that 4 days a week would give me much more progress then twice a week regardless of my strength atm or am i missing something?
    Last edited by manuel1987; 05-19-2017 at 11:32 AM.
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  16. #5116
    Registered User gesler0811's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by manuel1987 View Post
    I edited the post and added the barbell weight.
    Its a 20kg barbell so 44 pounds. I started bulking about 2 months ago and plan on bulking atleast another 8 months.

    The novice one doesn't come into question since i really enjoy going to the gym and i have the time. I also think that 4 days a week would give me much more progress then twice a week regardless of my strength atm or am i missing something?
    You would progress faster on novice, believe it or not. Don't make the mistake of assuming that 4x/week is inherently better than 3x/week. Progression on intermediate is only half as fast as novice (weight increases every 2 weeks instead of every 1 week). Milk novice for as much as you can get out of it, although since you've been lifting for 14 months already, you'll probably max it out faster than if you had just started training yesterday.
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  17. #5117
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    Originally Posted by gesler0811 View Post
    You would progress faster on novice, believe it or not. Don't make the mistake of assuming that 4x/week is inherently better than 3x/week. Progression on intermediate is only half as fast as novice (weight increases every 2 weeks instead of every 1 week). Milk novice for as much as you can get out of it, although since you've been lifting for 14 months already, you'll probably max it out faster than if you had just started training yesterday.
    I overlooked that, thanks for pointing it out. I guess i could arrange with 3x a week for a while and see how it goes. Its just that the Volume of the workouts themselves are allready low and then only going 3x a week seems so little.

    edit: adding a set or two to all exercises would probably not change much? or would that be ok?
    Last edited by manuel1987; 05-19-2017 at 12:50 PM.
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  18. #5118
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    Originally Posted by manuel1987 View Post
    I overlooked that, thanks for pointing it out. I guess i could arrange with 3x a week for a while and see how it goes. Its just that the Volume of the workouts themselves are allready low and then only going 3x a week seems so little.

    edit: adding a set or two to all exercises would probably not change much? or would that be ok?
    Just do the upper/lower if you will enjoy it man.
    Progress will be a bit slower, but that's not always a bad thing
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  19. #5119
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    Originally Posted by manuel1987 View Post
    I overlooked that, thanks for pointing it out. I guess i could arrange with 3x a week for a while and see how it goes. Its just that the Volume of the workouts themselves are allready low and then only going 3x a week seems so little.

    edit: adding a set or two to all exercises would probably not change much? or would that be ok?
    I jumped from a fairly high volume split to F5 novice, with the same concerns 'not enough volume, low reps, come on how can this work better?'

    I went 'well look I'll start with Novice and move to Intermediate when the times comes'. I ended up on Novice for 3 months following the program and it worked incredibly well. My concerns were totally unfounded. Progressed much better than I did on the split. Moved to Intermediate when I hit the points the program says to move.

    Also, no, don't 'add' stuff, just follow the program as written. Davis knows his stuff, has designed this program to be optimal for the audience, screwing around with it will not improve it.

    Straight up, you won't regret following Fierce 5, so long as you actually follow it as written, eat to your goals, get enough rest and give it enough time.
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  20. #5120
    I need about tree fiddy davisj3537's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Syncmaster View Post
    Hi everyone, i just wanna say that am doing the intermediate upper lower since august 2016,

    am so glad, in august i was benching 175 lbs, now am benching 225 lbs!!!!! it´s awesome!

    my belly increase too, but am working in the diet...


    thank you very much for this program and support!
    Nice job man. Keep working hard.
    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    Just do the upper/lower if you will enjoy it man.
    Progress will be a bit slower, but that's not always a bad thing
    I agree with everything that has been posted on the topic, but this would be what I'd say given the circumstances. I'm getting less and less willing to explain the why and how to people for a small benefit to them. If he would enjoy the UL more then great. In no circumstance should the advanced program be discussed though...
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  21. #5121
    Registered User manuel1987's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TnTNZ View Post
    I jumped from a fairly high volume split to F5 novice, with the same concerns 'not enough volume, low reps, come on how can this work better?'

    I went 'well look I'll start with Novice and move to Intermediate when the times comes'. I ended up on Novice for 3 months following the program and it worked incredibly well. My concerns were totally unfounded. Progressed much better than I did on the split. Moved to Intermediate when I hit the points the program says to move.

    Also, no, don't 'add' stuff, just follow the program as written. Davis knows his stuff, has designed this program to be optimal for the audience, screwing around with it will not improve it.

    Straight up, you won't regret following Fierce 5, so long as you actually follow it as written, eat to your goals, get enough rest and give it enough time.
    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    Just do the upper/lower if you will enjoy it man.
    Progress will be a bit slower, but that's not always a bad thing
    Originally Posted by davisj3537 View Post
    I agree with everything that has been posted on the topic, but this would be what I'd say given the circumstances. I'm getting less and less willing to explain the why and how to people for a small benefit to them. If he would enjoy the UL more then great. In no circumstance should the advanced program be discussed though...
    Thanks a bunch for the replies. I spent some time reading through a few pages and i decided to give the novice program a go, i can still do a session of HIIT or Cardio/Swimming once a week if i get bored.

    I will report back with my progress in a few months or if i get stuck.
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  22. #5122
    Registered User OryxOryx's Avatar
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    Doing the novice program.

    1) In the next week or two I will have maxed out the lat pulldown machine, but I'm still too fat to do chin-ups (working on the fat thing). Recommended substitute for the lat pulldown machine once I've maxed it out? I have barbells and lat pulldown machine only. No other cables or dumbells.

    2) Any tips for front squatting beyond the usual stuff one finds online? I started with just the bar so I can get the form down (I was already doing back squats on my previous program (allpro), so I started those with a higher weight). Now I'm at 65lbs with front squat (187 back squat), and although it isn't difficult exertion-wise, I find balance and bar placement very difficult. I feel like the only reason the bar isn't rolling forward is that the weight is so light. I think my back is less than perfectly vertical at the bottom, and I'm not sure if I can get my elbows close enough to parallel with the floor and maybe thats why the bar wants to roll off my front delts. Not sure what I'm doing wrong or if I just have to keep practicing and increasing the weight and hope to get in the right groove.
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  23. #5123
    We know lol Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OryxOryx View Post
    Doing the novice program.

    1) In the next week or two I will have maxed out the lat pulldown machine, but I'm still too fat to do chin-ups (working on the fat thing). Recommended substitute for the lat pulldown machine once I've maxed it out? I have barbells and lat pulldown machine only. No other cables or dumbells.

    2) Any tips for front squatting beyond the usual stuff one finds online? I started with just the bar so I can get the form down (I was already doing back squats on my previous program (allpro), so I started those with a higher weight). Now I'm at 65lbs with front squat (187 back squat), and although it isn't difficult exertion-wise, I find balance and bar placement very difficult. I feel like the only reason the bar isn't rolling forward is that the weight is so light. I think my back is less than perfectly vertical at the bottom, and I'm not sure if I can get my elbows close enough to parallel with the floor and maybe thats why the bar wants to roll off my front delts. Not sure what I'm doing wrong or if I just have to keep practicing and increasing the weight and hope to get in the right groove.
    Clean grip, elbows up, elbows in. Your hands don't hold the bar whatsoever, you only need to have a fingertip or two under the bar so that your arms stay in place as you get elbows up, elbows in. The bar should be as far [towards your] back as you can get it. It should be somewhat almost choking you. For me it feels more like the bar is inside of my front delts than on them.
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  24. #5124
    Registered User LPD11's Avatar
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    Can I get a BOR form check? Am I supposed to pull more into my stomach or my chest? Any advice or tips on what to focus on would be great. on the U/L program.

    My Fierce 5 U/L Log: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=173961421
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  25. #5125
    Registered User Sunican's Avatar
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    Hey guys, just found this program after doing SL 5x5 for about 2 months.

    Looking to start it this week. Made a few substitutes as per the list and just wanted to make sure I had it right before I got going on it:
    Workout A:
    Squats - 3x5 - 60kg (had some knee issues, working back up)
    Bench - 3x5 - 60kg
    Pendlay's - 3x8 - 50kg
    Face pulls - 3x10
    Calf raises - 2x15
    Tricep extensions - 2x10

    Workout B:
    Deadlift - 3x5 - 100kg
    OHP - 3x5 - 45kg
    Leg Curl - 3x8
    Lat Pulldown - 3x8
    Hanging Leg Raises - 2x15
    Barbell curl - 2x10

    I've entered my current numbers from SL. Any suggestions for starting weights for the other lifts? Should I find what the heaviest I can do is or should I start light and work up?
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  26. #5126
    I need about tree fiddy davisj3537's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LPD11 View Post
    Can I get a BOR form check? Am I supposed to pull more into my stomach or my chest? Any advice or tips on what to focus on would be great. on the U/L program.
    Looks like a fine BOR to me dude.
    Originally Posted by Sunican View Post
    Hey guys, just found this program after doing SL 5x5 for about 2 months.

    Looking to start it this week. Made a few substitutes as per the list and just wanted to make sure I had it right before I got going on it:
    Workout A:
    Squats - 3x5 - 60kg (had some knee issues, working back up)
    Bench - 3x5 - 60kg
    Pendlay's - 3x8 - 50kg
    Face pulls - 3x10
    Calf raises - 2x15
    Tricep extensions - 2x10

    Workout B:
    Deadlift - 3x5 - 100kg
    OHP - 3x5 - 45kg
    Leg Curl - 3x8
    Lat Pulldown - 3x8
    Hanging Leg Raises - 2x15
    Barbell curl - 2x10

    I've entered my current numbers from SL. Any suggestions for starting weights for the other lifts? Should I find what the heaviest I can do is or should I start light and work up?
    You don't have to start super light or anything, but don't start heavy...that's just going to guarantee immediate failure.
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  27. #5127
    Registered User NewBular's Avatar
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    So last week, on Upper A i failed incline at 150 on the last set. Since my bench press at 180 went pretty smooth, I decided this week to change my normal routine by doing incline first and bench second. Today incline was relatively easy, and I failed bench at 180 on the second set of the 3 x 6. I know squats and deads are very taxing, but for the rest of the compounds i didn't realize the order could affect the lifts so much, since I always keep my compounds in the same order, every single time. 180 at 3 x 5 last week was easy, this time I couldn't even finish the second set of 3 x 6. I'm going to follow the failure protocol, but late next week I go on vacay for about a week. I've been doing the Upper/Lower split for a little over 2 months. Maybe I'm due for a week off the gym.
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  28. #5128
    I need about tree fiddy davisj3537's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NewBular View Post
    So last week, on Upper A i failed incline at 150 on the last set. Since my bench press at 180 went pretty smooth, I decided this week to change my normal routine by doing incline first and bench second. Today incline was relatively easy, and I failed bench at 180 on the second set of the 3 x 6. I know squats and deads are very taxing, but for the rest of the compounds i didn't realize the order could affect the lifts so much, since I always keep my compounds in the same order, every single time. 180 at 3 x 5 last week was easy, this time I couldn't even finish the second set of 3 x 6. I'm going to follow the failure protocol, but late next week I go on vacay for about a week. I've been doing the Upper/Lower split for a little over 2 months. Maybe I'm due for a week off the gym.
    Lifting order is important and yeah you probably need a week off.
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  29. #5129
    Registered User Voyager92's Avatar
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    I've been doing the Novice Routine for 7 weeks and I did Squats, 75 kg for 4 reps, and the other 2 sets with 70 kg, 5 reps. Should I just do a reset or did I start with too heavy weights?
    Last edited by Voyager92; 05-23-2017 at 10:39 AM.
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  30. #5130
    Registered User bob2589's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Voyager92 View Post
    I've been doing the Novice Routine for 7 weeks and I did Squats, 75 kg for 4 reps, and the other 2 sets with 70 kg, 5 reps. Should I just do a reset or did I start with too heavy weights?
    Why did you reduce the weight?

    I would class it as a fail, go again on the next workout and if you fail follow the reset protocol.
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