"Fierce 5" Comprehensive Program List

[superpumphenry]

Can I do incline dumbbell presses instead of flyes on upper B or does it have to be a fly movement?

[davisj3537]

Bumping these awesome routines!

On a side note Davis, I've seen you talk earlier about people omitting Pendlays, I believe because there is no detailed tutorials out there, the only one I've came across last year when I was really digging form was a short video by glen pendlay that doesn't cover foot stance or some issues like that. It's my main reason for omitting it as I've no solid material to compare to.

I found Mehdi's explanation as well, but text doesn't really help that much opposed to videos, especially when it's not as detailed as SS for example.

You may be right about the Pendlay subbing reason. I personally don't think they are that hard. Keep your back flat and row it off the floor. Overall posture for the lift should embody what is shown in Glenn's video on it.

I've always thought most people want to sub them since they can work with more weight on BORs. Typical noob mindset that more weight is better regardless.

Can I do incline dumbbell presses instead of flyes on upper B or does it have to be a fly movement?

Knock yourself out.

[davisj3537]

Posting this here for copy and paste purposes. I'm tired of typing it out.

You should have at least 2 pulls for every push. So in theory if you had 3 presses you'd want at least 6 pulls. You can't overdo pulling, but you can easily overdo pressing.

There is more to it than just that. You need directional balance as well. If you have an upward press you need two downward pulls, for bench you'd want two horizontal pulls for balance...etc.

It goes even deeper than that. For instance the scapula has 5 planes of movement. If you don't train all 5 your scapula wouldn't operate correctly in some circumstances and then you'd get injured doing normal stuff like throwing a baseball or lifting furniture.

There should be a similar balancing act going on with your hips.

Without extensive knowledge in these areas it can be nearly impossible to write a program that will keep you healthy and injury free.

Take a look at the last link in my sig for a series of programs to pick from.

[VmissileX]

You may be right about the Pendlay subbing reason. I personally don't think they are that hard. Keep your back flat and row it off the floor. Overall posture for the lift should embody what is shown in Glenn's video on it.

.

Do I hear a thread on rowing to be made?!?!

[davisj3537]

Do I hear a thread on rowing to be made?!?!

Maybe. I'm much more likely to write a thread on scapular movement.

Edit: Gonna work on that shiz now actually.

[VmissileX]

Maybe. I'm much more likely to write a thread on scapular movement.

Edit: Gonna work on that shiz now actually.

Wooowoo woo.

On spreads.

[krysix]

I wonder why any mod stick any of your routines being the ones more recommended here.

[HSteen90]

A 17 year old weighing 148 lb with squat - 230. Bench - 180. Deadlift 260. All lb and 1 rep max. Should I do the novice full body or start with the upper lower? Thanks

[superpumphenry]

A 17 year old weighing 148 lb with squat - 230. Bench - 180. Deadlift 260. All lb and 1 rep max. Should I do the novice full body or start with the upper lower? Thanks

Probably the novice full body

[davisj3537]

Probably the novice full body

Agreed. This is a good place to start. You could do the U/L if you want, but I'd go full body.

[HSteen90]

Ok thanks I'll give the full body a try then move to upper lower after legit stall.

[davisj3537]

Wooowoo woo.

On spreads.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=163112471

Dem scaps

[AugustineV]

Bump for liberty and justice

I'm thinking that, at some point just before moving to the Upper/Lower Split, I might alter the novice program into a sort of "Advanced Novice." It would be:

AxB1xAxxB2xAxB1xxAxB2xAxxB1xAxB2xx

Where B1 is the original Deadlift/Leg Curl day and B2 would be Front Squat/RDL day.

It would be similar to the progression as listed in Practical Programming 2nd Edition/Starting Strength 3rd edition (can't post links, it's on the Starting Strength wiki FAQ)

[davisj3537]

Bump for liberty and justice

I'm thinking that, at some point just before moving to the Upper/Lower Split, I might alter the novice program into a sort of "Advanced Novice." It would be:

AxB1xAxxB2xAxB1xxAxB2xAxxB1xAxB2xx

Where B1 is the original Deadlift/Leg Curl day and B2 would be Front Squat/RDL day.

It would be similar to the progression as listed in Practical Programming 2nd Edition/Starting Strength 3rd edition (can't post links, it's on the Starting Strength wiki FAQ)

Feel free to give it a go if you like.

[Cranz]

Hey!

Mind dropping me some thoughts on my squat form?



Was pretty exhausted as this was filmed after my working sets. Slowly getting back into Squat/deads, but surely progressing.

[GF23]

I was recommended this but I am not a novice. I can do pull ups of 3x10 etc.

Is it still worth me doing this?

[connorpat1995]

I was recommended this but I am not a novice. I can do pull ups of 3x10 etc.

Is it still worth me doing this?

Im a movice an I can do 3x10 pull-ups
whether you're a novice or not depends on your lifts and recovery ability. A novice can fully recover and improve from session to session on a thrice weekly frequency and thus can keep up with a rapidly progressing program.
A generally used benchmark for someone past the novice phase is a bench around 200, squat around 300 and DL around 400 lb. If you're not near these strength standards, you'd do best on a novice program

[davisj3537]

Cranz, little buttwink and a fairly upright torso which results in more forward knee travel. Work on mobility and tightening your core. More forward lean will require more hip mobility to avoid buttwink.

[Cranz]

Cranz, little buttwink and a fairly upright torso which results in more forward knee travel. Work on mobility and tightening your core. More forward lean will require more hip mobility to avoid buttwink.

Pretty much thought so about buttwink. Some have told me I've a little bit of spinal hyper extension too.

I'm trying to start doing core work, but with my current ****ty internet connection after I moved out, it's pretty hard to get all the stuff, I'm trying to find a way though. I'm only doing the exercises I was told to by the doctor, and I literally have zero back problems atm.

[davisj3537]

Pretty much thought so about buttwink. Some have told me I've a little bit of spinal hyper extension too.

I'm trying to start doing core work, but with my current ****ty internet connection after I moved out, it's pretty hard to get all the stuff, I'm trying to find a way though. I'm only doing the exercises I was told to by the doctor, and I literally have zero back problems atm.

That is good man. Zero pain is a wonderful feeling.

[stitch123]

Just out of interest what workout did you use / use now to get to the size in your body space pics? Something similar to this?

[davisj3537]

Just out of interest what workout did you use / use now to get to the size in your body space pics? Something similar to this?

I followed the typical full body to Upper/Lower to PPL route. Spent a good year on FB another year or so on UL and then have done PPL intermittently the last year, but I've been plagued with injuries for the last year or so...funny actually they all developed from postural imbalances.

Obviously I hadn't designed any of this stuff yet. I ran something with similarly low volume and decent balance. Had I known 3 years ago what I know now my joints wouldn't have gotten destroyed in the process:/

[stitch123]

Is there an equivalent to face pulls that can be done with either a bar or dumbells? I can do rear flyes on upper B should I just do those on upper a?

Incidentally just read this http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...lls_and_shrugs interesting stuff!

[davisj3537]

Is there an equivalent to face pulls that can be done with either a bar or dumbells? I can do rear flyes on upper B should I just do those on upper a?

Incidentally just read this http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...lls_and_shrugs interesting stuff!

That is a great article.

You can do a face pull style row with DBs if you lean over parallel to the ground.

[Ozieman3o5]

Hey Davis, if you dont mind me asking why don't you have lateral raises in any of your programs?, aren't they an essential exercise to develop your lateral delts?. Also can i substitute the reverse flies for rear delt lateral raises on your novice program?, and should i still use the 5lbs per month for the rear delt laterals like on the reverse flies?.

[davisj3537]

Hey Davis, if you dont mind me asking why don't you have lateral raises in any of your programs?, aren't they an essential exercise to develop your lateral delts?. Also can i substitute the reverse flies for rear delt lateral raises on your novice program?, and should i still use the 5lbs per month for the rear delt laterals like on the reverse flies?.

This is a really common question in terms of shoulder development. Lateral raises aren't essential and neither is OHP. A perfect example are my delts in my avatar. With a few very small exceptions I've never done OHP, Incline or any delt isolation exercise other than reverse flies. My delts exploded with pressing, pulling and reverse flies. People put WAY too much emphasis on shoulder exercises. If you lift heavy and eat they will grow just like everything else.

Would you care to explain to me how reverse flies are different than a rear lateral raise? They look nearly identical to me...

[Ozieman3o5]

This is a really common question in terms of shoulder development. Lateral raises aren't essential and neither is OHP. A perfect example are my delts in my avatar. With a few very small exceptions I've never done OHP, Incline or any delt isolation exercise other than reverse flies. My delts exploded with pressing, pulling and reverse flies. People put WAY too much emphasis on shoulder exercises. If you lift heavy and eat they will grow just like everything else.

Would you care to explain to me how reverse flies are different than a rear lateral raise? They look nearly identical to me...

I believe reverse flies are done standing up with cables, while rear lateral raises are done with dumbells while leaning forward, references for each: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...everseFly.html, http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...eralRaise.html.

[davisj3537]

I believe reverse flies are done standing up with cables, while rear lateral raises are done with dumbells while leaning forward, references for each: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...everseFly.html, http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...eralRaise.html.

That is what I thought. For now on just consider the names interchangeable for the same exercise. They both do the exact same thing. It doesn't matter how your body is positioned, what matters is how your arms are moving in relation to it. Some people call them reverse flies and others call them rear lat raises.

[Ozieman3o5]

That is what I thought. For now on just consider the names interchangeable for the same exercise. They both do the exact same thing. It doesn't matter how your body is positioned, what matters is how your arms are moving in relation to it. Some people call them reverse flies and others call them rear lat raises.

Alright, thanks, im just gonna do the dumbbell version since i don't have the equipment for cable flyes. I also have a question about the incline bench, how much of an incline should it be?, or does it not matter?, im asking because i have one of these:

http://imagecdn-1.findnsave.com/147/2379629-420

And as you can see there are 3 possible holes i can set the bench to, so im wondering which one of the holes would be best for the incline bench?.

[davisj3537]

Alright, thanks, im just gonna do the dumbbell version since i don't have the equipment for cable flyes. I also have a question about the incline bench, how much of an incline should it be?, or does it not matter?, im asking because i have one of these:

http://imagecdn-1.findnsave.com/147/2379629-420

And as you can see there are 3 possible holes i can set the bench to, so im wondering which one of the holes would be best for the incline bench?.

Shoot for a 45 degree angle.