"Fierce 5" Comprehensive Program List

[davisj3537]

Cranz, I'd put in more ham and glute work...particularly on leg day. Abs look good.

Randomdude, once it is corrected go back to the original template.

[HeavyLifts92]

Cranz, I'd put in more ham and glute work...particularly on leg day. Abs look good.

Randomdude, once it is corrected go back to the original template.

Also may i ask what exercises do you do for your delts? I find them preety impressive.

[atreides1980]

How much weight should I use? I highly advise to start out lighter than you think you can handle since the progression is very fast. I can’t stress this enough! This program works best with lighter starting weights. If this is your very first time going to the gym I strongly advise using 50% of what you think you are capable of. Slowly increase this percentage until by the end of the second week you are using around 85% of what you think you can handle. This will be a good starting point. This approach helps prevent delayed onset muscle soreness, helps acquire an accurate starting weight over two weeks and keeps you from being injured by using too much weight at first. Resist the urge to start heavy; you’ll be sore for a week and won’t want to go back to the gym any time soon.

Cliffs-If you start too heavy the progression will be too fast for you and you’ll stall almost immediately. If you start out a little too light it won't matter; the progression will have you struggling in a few weeks.

So, as an example, say I calculate a 8 rep max at 100 lbs. Does this mean I should work at 50% of 100 (ie, 50 lbs)?

Also, when you say "slowly increase this percentage", how do I do that? If I follow the weight-adding logic described earlier (ie, add 5 lbs per week for upper body) , I won't add 85% until 7 weeks in (35 lbs ÷ 5 lbs/week = 7 weeks).

Thanks in advance!

[connorpat1995]

So, as an example, say I calculate a 8 rep max at 100 lbs. Does this mean I should work at 50% of 100 (ie, 50 lbs)?

Also, when you say "slowly increase this percentage", how do I do that? If I follow the weight-adding logic described earlier (ie, add 5 lbs per week for upper body) , I won't add 85% until 7 weeks in (35 lbs ÷ 5 lbs/week = 7 weeks).

Thanks in advance!

this is a guideline. An example might looks like this on a 100lb bench press:
Mon: 50lb
Fri: 65lb
Wed: 75lb
next Mon: 85lb
and continue with 5lb weekly jumps from there

the overall idea is to start light; don't shoot for new PRs in the first couple weeks

[atreides1980]

this is a guideline. An example might looks like this on a 100lb bench press:
Mon: 50lb
Fri: 65lb
Wed: 75lb
next Mon: 85lb
and continue with 5lb weekly jumps from there

the overall idea is to start light; don't shoot for new PRs in the first couple weeks

Cool. That's what I thought. Just wanted to make sure I understood. Thanks!

[IvyKun]

I'm going to ask exactly the same thing but for the U/L. The progression in the U/L is to add weight every 2 weeks.

How light should I start?

[atreides1980]

If anyone's interested, started my Fierce 5 log here: forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=164097261. Also, I created a cheat sheet that might be useful to some of you here: docs.google.com/document/d/1ioBop3o_hoJ0cx6PbqsYK0BRIYuNo2ZpM4v0GEyKCvQ/pub.

If you guys have any input on the cheat sheet, I'd love to hear it. I'll make changes as necessary and republish them. Cheers!

[davisj3537]

Also may i ask what exercises do you do for your delts? I find them preety impressive.

Thanks. I've never done any raises, incline or OHP for my delts. Just bench pressing and reverse flies really. With enough food and pressing/pulling they should grow in just fine.

I'm going to ask exactly the same thing but for the U/L. The progression in the U/L is to add weight every 2 weeks.

How light should I start?

When you reach intermediate status this is something you should feel a lot more comfortable with. In general I'd say start about 10% lighter than you think you can handle.

If anyone's interested, started my Fierce 5 log here: forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=164097261. Also, I created a cheat sheet that might be useful to some of you here: docs.google.com/document/d/1ioBop3o_hoJ0cx6PbqsYK0BRIYuNo2ZpM4v0GEyKCvQ/pub.

If you guys have any input on the cheat sheet, I'd love to hear it. I'll make changes as necessary and republish them. Cheers!

Looks great bud.

[baynesy]

Is there a reason for leaving out front squats on the LPP, or is it something I could sub in for regular squats on the second leg day?

[davisj3537]

Is there a reason for leaving out front squats on the LPP, or is it something I could sub in for regular squats on the second leg day?

You could do that.

[Mihkelk]

First off, Davis, thanks for the programs:

Now, I've been following your novice program, or well followed it in the first half of 2014, up until summer where I couldn't use a gym for reasons. And I absolutely loved it, having the sense of beating my last week every time the new week hit, it was awesome. I still love it. Now I'm back in my uni gym where I can go ~3x a week due to classes (theres this system where you can use the gym only during classes time and my schedule has enough time to hit the gym about 3x a week, sometimes 4x, depending on the week). I've been lifting now for around 1 year, my max 1RM bench before summer was 225lbs, max. DL was 300lbs and max squat was 265 lbs.

Now, maybe I'm overthinking this and maybe I should keep running the novice program as it is, but I suddenly have a feeling that now with it being a bit changed and modified since I last did it and having to squat 3x a week (back and front both) I'm scared that my legs will grow too big suddenly. I know I'm probably overthinking and that 3x a week squat is good, but can you just clarify why and how good is it to 3x a week squat? And won't the legs go too big compared to the rest of me?

Also asking about the Intermediate U/L program that can I run it the same way as the novice one since possibly I can't hit the gym 4x a week, as in. M - Lower, W - Upper, F - Lower, next M - upper and so on so forth.

I hope I don't sound too much like a little bitch. Thanks ahead!

[Ion33]

I know it's good to start light and all for the first few weeks. But after that will the final set of each exercise usually be very difficult (close to failure) to complete? It feels weird to be done with an exercise and still have more in the tank if I went balls to the wall on the last set, lol. As if I'm shortchanging myself.

[connorpat1995]

I know it's good to start light and all for the first few weeks. But after that will the final set of each exercise usually be very difficult (close to failure) to complete? It feels weird to be done with an exercise and still have more in the tank if I went balls to the wall on the last set, lol. As if I'm shortchanging myself.

It may feel like you can get more out of working to your maximum, but applying progressively greater mechanical tension to the muscles is the key to building them, not pushing them to/past their limit every session. Having a rep or 2 in the tank once you're finished is a good thing, and going to failure on big lifts frequently will dig in to your performance on your next lifts and later in the week.

The progression is very fast, you'll eventually reach your 5RM on squats and even jump past it and have to reset; so you'll be going to failure some times, but only every couple months or so on a given lift

[davisj3537]

First off, Davis, thanks for the programs:

Now, I've been following your novice program, or well followed it in the first half of 2014, up until summer where I couldn't use a gym for reasons. And I absolutely loved it, having the sense of beating my last week every time the new week hit, it was awesome. I still love it. Now I'm back in my uni gym where I can go ~3x a week due to classes (theres this system where you can use the gym only during classes time and my schedule has enough time to hit the gym about 3x a week, sometimes 4x, depending on the week). I've been lifting now for around 1 year, my max 1RM bench before summer was 225lbs, max. DL was 300lbs and max squat was 265 lbs.

Now, maybe I'm overthinking this and maybe I should keep running the novice program as it is, but I suddenly have a feeling that now with it being a bit changed and modified since I last did it and having to squat 3x a week (back and front both) I'm scared that my legs will grow too big suddenly. I know I'm probably overthinking and that 3x a week squat is good, but can you just clarify why and how good is it to 3x a week squat? And won't the legs go too big compared to the rest of me?

Also asking about the Intermediate U/L program that can I run it the same way as the novice one since possibly I can't hit the gym 4x a week, as in. M - Lower, W - Upper, F - Lower, next M - upper and so on so forth.

I hope I don't sound too much like a little bitch. Thanks ahead!

Your legs have some catching up to do already...I'd follow the current version of the program if I were you. I'd advise against running the UL program as you have it listed. I'd advise you stick to full body until you can't increase weights for squat and DL WHILE BULKING.

I know it's good to start light and all for the first few weeks. But after that will the final set of each exercise usually be very difficult (close to failure) to complete? It feels weird to be done with an exercise and still have more in the tank if I went balls to the wall on the last set, lol. As if I'm shortchanging myself.

All good programs have a varying intensity. This is already accounted for....don't over think it. I've already over thought the entire program series for you. Follow the progression and failure protocols. Don't mess with it.

[Mihkelk]

Your legs have some catching up to do already...I'd follow the current version of the program if I were you. I'd advise against running the UL program as you have it listed. I'd advise you stick to full body until you can't increase weights for squat and DL WHILE BULKING.

Alright, thanks, I'll keep at it! I know that I'll get more strength in legs! PS I love squatting it makes me feel like a man

[OriginallPoster]

In the warm ups it mentions OHP, but OHP isn't in the list of exercises? Where does all the shoulder work come from bench and rows and rear flies? Is that enough? Also my bench doesn't go incline what is a replacement please? Dips? I could just put something under the front of the bench?
Thanks,
sam

[connorpat1995]

In the warm ups it mentions OHP, but OHP isn't in the list of exercises? Where does all the shoulder work come from bench and rows and rear flies? Is that enough? Also my bench doesn't go incline what is a replacement please? Dips? I could just put something under the front of the bench?
Thanks,
sam

OHP is an acceptable sub for incline BP, or you can put something under like you said
flat bench serves as stimulus for your shoulders on A days

[OriginallPoster]

OHP is an acceptable sub for incline BP, or you can put something under like you said
flat bench serves as stimulus for your shoulders on A days

Thank you for replying, I would much rather do OHP, however isn't Incline BP much more chest focused than the OHP?

[InsanityDk]

Davis I know it's best to not change anything of the program and follow it as it's written.

I love doing calisthenics well getting into it now and I want to get advanced (I saw someone posting the same thing somewhere)

I was thinking of following the program as it's written and as you recommend it but when going to intermediate could I do like one upper day for calisthenics and MAYBE one lower aswell to get better and reach advanced movements?

[connorpat1995]

Thank you for replying, I would much rather do OHP, however isn't Incline BP much more chest focused than the OHP?

yes. You have to make the choice between slightly more upper-chest development or slightly more shoulder development.

[OriginallPoster]

yes. You have to make the choice between slightly more upper-chest development or slightly more shoulder development.

Given I've got a bench that doesn't adjust which would you do? Which would be the more advantageous exercise? There doesn't seem to be much direct shoulder work other than rear flies but that's for rear delts.
I've got a plan I made but I don't know how good it is would you mind checking it out please? I can't post links yet so if there's a way to do it from my profile I'd appreciate it.
I don't know whether to try that, this, or another program.

[connorpat1995]

I would just OHP. Post any other mods you have questions about

[OriginallPoster]

I would just OHP. Post any other mods you have questions about

Okay thanks mate, how is this for a mass building routine guys? I'm switching from Starting Strength to a more hypertrophic program, will this fit the criteria?

[robert5891]

Davis,

I workout at home and have dumbbells, pullup bar, bench, and medicine balls. Can the the novice routine be modified to utilize all dumbbells and be done at home subbing dumbbell variations for the barbell squats and RDL?

[jumboliah]

Thoughts only doing only incline bench for push work if one of my main priorities is improving shoulder posture from too much pushing over the years? Reasoning behind this is that it hits the delts and chest a good amount all in one exercise while keeping the pushing volume at a minimum. I'd substitute the other pushing work in one of the PPL templates with more lateral raises to compensate (and get more delt work in). This is just a thought that came to mind today. It'd just cut the pushing volume I had in mind in half.

[PaulRivers]

Davis,

I workout at home and have dumbbells, pullup bar, bench, and medicine balls. Can the the novice routine be modified to utilize all dumbbells and be done at home subbing dumbbell variations for the barbell squats and RDL?

See here for my exact same question in the novice program thread:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1292020271

There are other recent replies on the same topic there as well.

[OriginallPoster]

Is this a more strength based workout or hypertrophy? I am doing starting strength atm and want to move onto something with a bit higher volume and hypertrophy orientated because I'm cutting for the first time and am feeling small and weak.

[robert5891]

Thanks for the quick reply Paul...reps!

See here for my exact same question in the novice program thread:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1292020271

There are other recent replies on the same topic there as well.

[davisj3537]

Davis I know it's best to not change anything of the program and follow it as it's written.

I love doing calisthenics well getting into it now and I want to get advanced (I saw someone posting the same thing somewhere)

I was thinking of following the program as it's written and as you recommend it but when going to intermediate could I do like one upper day for calisthenics and MAYBE one lower aswell to get better and reach advanced movements?

I'd cross that bridge when you get to it. That is a long way down the road bud.

Given I've got a bench that doesn't adjust which would you do? Which would be the more advantageous exercise?

You speak about this like you had a choice, but you clearly don't. This is an easy decision and you are just spinning circles around the obvious choice.

Thoughts only doing only incline bench for push work if one of my main priorities is improving shoulder posture from too much pushing over the years? Reasoning behind this is that it hits the delts and chest a good amount all in one exercise while keeping the pushing volume at a minimum. I'd substitute the other pushing work in one of the PPL templates with more lateral raises to compensate (and get more delt work in). This is just a thought that came to mind today. It'd just cut the pushing volume I had in mind in half.

To clarify, you have rounded shoulders and want to run the PPL template without any pressing work besides an incline press?

Is this a more strength based workout or hypertrophy? I am doing starting strength atm and want to move onto something with a bit higher volume and hypertrophy orientated because I'm cutting for the first time and am feeling small and weak.

You are just in rapid fire mode with all of these questions. Calm down and read the novice thread. There isn't a single question you could ask that has not been covered in it.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...9678631&page=1

[OriginallPoster]

Sorry I don't mean to bug you guys, but isn't that what this thread is for? I've looked through the novice section multiple times and I can't find clearly whether it is a hypertrophy or size one, other than those charts which were very interesting actually! So I guess it's both?
Okay I guess I'll be doing OHP then. I just bought some Olympic Dumbbells to start this program.