"Fierce 5" Comprehensive Program List

[Dirtymanjames]

Started upper/lower after doing the LPP for awhile, got bored of the LPP and felt it was a bit much on joints.

How come no OHP in the upper/lower? Also would it be alright to add side lateral raises on a couple of the days?

[dgoyena216]

Novice routine for sure then. Good luck.

Like said above you can sub any press for any press really. Do dips, do a cable fly, do CGBP...anything really. Have fun with it.

Sounds like you should really see a doctor at this point to be honest. Prolonged pain can not only cause a lack of results, but can cripple you from deteriorated joints and soft tissue. You don't want to be limping around the rest of your life; play it smart here man.

See an ortho bud. I can't say much else; giving medical advice is against forum rules.

We've all done the same thing at some point. lol

Barbells hurt...badly. That's part of it. Imagine 700lbs on the bar and doing sets of 5. Yeah it hurts like hell.

I find that pushing the bar down on top of the highest portion of my quad (it will rest on the highest portion of the muscle) helps significantly though. If it rests directly on the pelvic bone it is unbearable at even moderate weight.

Ill make note of that about the barbell when I move on to it.

I tried to get my roommate on Fierce 5 upper/lower, and he did it for like a week or something, and then today he came to me with all these changes, to pretty much a brosplit like he was doing (His shoulders are terrible. Pretty internally rotated, and make terrible sounds, he says it from wrestling, which it probably is, but the internal rotation isnt helping), and he said he thought the order was kind of wierd. Like going from squats to back extensions, then to leg press. I told him the order is like that for a reason, but I guess if he doesnt like it, find something else. He also likes doing 8 sets of calves, no idea why. Ive told him more isnt always better when it comes to this stuff. Ive been doing 3 sets of 12 and just hit 200 pounds and my calves have grown quite large in the last 2 weeks. To the point its awkward to sit on my knees now. Probably also my hamstrings growing too.

[davisj3537]

I should have been more specific. The pain is only during my sets, of leg curls and cable kickback. Not throughout the day. I'll definitely take your advice into consideration about the ortho but I'm pretty sure it's going to go away. Those 2 exercises just don't even feel right, even on my pain-free knee. I'll probably stay away from them for good.

I'd still see a physio at the very least. Leg curls hurting is not normal.

Started upper/lower after doing the LPP for awhile, got bored of the LPP and felt it was a bit much on joints.

How come no OHP in the upper/lower? Also would it be alright to add side lateral raises on a couple of the days?

You want OHP and lateral raises?

OHP is a sub for ANY press in any program...

Ill make note of that about the barbell when I move on to it.

I tried to get my roommate on Fierce 5 upper/lower, and he did it for like a week or something, and then today he came to me with all these changes, to pretty much a brosplit like he was doing (His shoulders are terrible. Pretty internally rotated, and make terrible sounds, he says it from wrestling, which it probably is, but the internal rotation isnt helping), and he said he thought the order was kind of wierd. Like going from squats to back extensions, then to leg press. I told him the order is like that for a reason, but I guess if he doesnt like it, find something else. He also likes doing 8 sets of calves, no idea why. Ive told him more isnt always better when it comes to this stuff. Ive been doing 3 sets of 12 and just hit 200 pounds and my calves have grown quite large in the last 2 weeks. To the point its awkward to sit on my knees now. Probably also my hamstrings growing too.

You can only show people the way; you can't make them follow it. Eventually it will catch up with him, but I hope it doesn't. I don't wish that on anyone, having been through it myself.

[Dirtymanjames]

Well, I mean would OHP press be subbed from incline in cases where your shoulders are lagging? Or does incline press hit shoulders sufficiently?

Also I just want to add side laterals because I love the burn I get and I shoulders are probably my weakest area .

[davisj3537]

Well, I mean would OHP press be subbed from incline in cases where your shoulders are lagging? Or does incline press hit shoulders sufficiently?

Also I just want to add side laterals because I love the burn I get and I shoulders are probably my weakest area .

The idea is for you to pick your weak point. You choose the lift.

Post a few photos and I'll pick for you if you like.

[Dirtymanjames]

http://imgur.com/a/3tKue
Pics are just over a month old , not best angles.

[dgoyena216]

I'd still see a physio at the very least. Leg curls hurting is not normal.

You want OHP and lateral raises?

OHP is a sub for ANY press in any program...

You can only show people the way; you can't make them follow it. Eventually it will catch up with him, but I hope it doesn't. I don't wish that on anyone, having been through it myself.

Yeah. I just tried to tell him what ive learned the last 3-4 months.

And since you said we can do some cable cross overs to sub for any press, I might sub high cable cross overs for decline bench.

http://imgur.com/a/3tKue
Pics are just over a month old , not best angles.

Your spinal erectors are huge, compared to anything else in your back.

[Dirtymanjames]

Yeah. I just tried to tell him what ive learned the last 3-4 months.

And since you said we can do some cable cross overs to sub for any press, I might sub high cable cross overs for decline bench.



Your spinal erectors are huge, compared to anything else in your back.

Not sure if that's good or bad or how they got that size :P.

I just know I want to get my back wider. Which hopefully gives the illusion of a smaller waist because mine is pretty big

[dgoyena216]

Not sure if that's good or bad or how they got that size :P.

I just know I want to get my back wider. Which hopefully gives the illusion of a smaller waist because mine is pretty big

Pull downs pull downs pull downs! Actually I dont really know how to make back wider. Just know that pull downs work the lats hard, which can add to a V shape, which correlates to wider back??

[Dirtymanjames]

Pull downs pull downs pull downs! Actually I dont really know how to make back wider. Just know that pull downs work the lats hard, which can add to a V shape, which correlates to wider back??

I guess so lol. I do just weighted pull-ups though

[dgoyena216]

I guess so lol. I do just weighted pull-ups though

Same thing. I was doing pull ups with my wieght, but I guess my strength is not up to my newly 180 pound body. Kept failing pull up sets, so went back to the pull down bar and doing 150lbs and working my way back up.

[davisj3537]

http://imgur.com/a/3tKue
Pics are just over a month old , not best angles.

It's a wash man. You have no weak points on either front.



Give you're using a properly balanced routine your back will develop accordingly and you won't need additional crap. That's the entire point behind this entire series.

[Dirtymanjames]

It's a wash man. You have no weak points on either front.



Give you're using a properly balanced routine your back will develop accordingly and you won't need additional crap. That's the entire point behind this entire series.

Okay thank you. Will just stick with upper/lower as is!

[dgoyena216]

It's a wash man. You have no weak points on either front.



Give you're using a properly balanced routine your back will develop accordingly and you won't need additional crap. That's the entire point behind this entire series.

And its awesome that it is a series. So for someone just starting they can literally go from the Beginner -> intermediate -> advanced, without looking for a completely different routine from someone else.

[davisj3537]

And its awesome that it is a series. So for someone just starting they can literally go from the Beginner -> intermediate -> advanced, without looking for a completely different routine from someone else.

That's the idea, though I would advise an annual checkup with a physio. It's an extremely overlooked advantage.

[dgoyena216]

That's the idea, though I would advise an annual checkup with a physio. It's an extremely overlooked advantage.

Agreed. I have gone through a ton of physical therapy over the last 2 years. Back injury 2 years ago and torn medial and lateral collateral ligaments in my elbow last year. Done so much physical therapy and learned so much from my therapists, that it had me considering physio therapy for profession. I plan to go back to see them before next summer to get a check up on my back and arm.

Also, finally figured out how to put this workout routine in my bodyspace.

[razman123]

I'd still see a physio at the very least. Leg curls hurting is not normal.

You want OHP and lateral raises?

OHP is a sub for ANY press in any program...

You can only show people the way; you can't make them follow it. Eventually it will catch up with him, but I hope it doesn't. I don't wish that on anyone, having been through it myself.

Pendlay rows is an exercise that i don't like, can i substitute seated cable rows or one arm dumbbell rows instead?

[dgoyena216]

Pendlay rows is an exercise that i don't like, can i substitute seated cable rows or one arm dumbbell rows instead?

One arm dumbbell rows are essentially Kroc Rows, which are in the substitution list for Bent over row/Yates row. So I would assume no, however, you can do seated cable row with over hand wide grip. Its what I am doing now. I just take the lat pull down bar, over to the seated row and use that.

[razman123]

One arm dumbbell rows are essentially Kroc Rows, which are in the substitution list for Bent over row/Yates row. So I would assume no, however, you can do seated cable row with over hand wide grip. Its what I am doing now. I just take the lat pull down bar, over to the seated row and use that.

there is a difference between kroc rows and dumbbell rows.... dumbbell rows is a horizontal pull on a bench, kroc rows is standing but ill do seated row with wide grip it sounds good

[davisj3537]

You aren't able to keep your elbow out on DB rows easily at all. It's very difficult and no one does it correctly so it isn't a good sub for pendlays.

[dgoyena216]

there is a difference between kroc rows and dumbbell rows.... dumbbell rows is a horizontal pull on a bench, kroc rows is standing but ill do seated row with wide grip it sounds good

I thought Kroc rows and DB rows were basically the same thing and you can do them on a bench or standing up. Ive heard people say Kroc Rows are just fancy name by DB Rows because Kroc does them.

When I did them last week, I did it with the one knee on the bench way. Everything I find on Kroc Rows is either standing or on a bench. I am subbing them for Yates Rows, which can also substitute BOR according to the substitution list.

[davisj3537]

I thought Kroc rows and DB rows were basically the same thing and you can do them on a bench or standing up. Ive heard people say Kroc Rows are just fancy name by DB Rows because Kroc does them.

When I did them last week, I did it with the one knee on the bench way. Everything I find on Kroc Rows is either standing or on a bench. I am subbing them for Yates Rows, which can also substitute BOR according to the substitution list.

A Kroc row is a yates row to the stomach with a DB...I think overhand grip though I don't really care.

[dgoyena216]

A Kroc row is a yates row to the stomach with a DB...I think overhand grip though I don't really care.

But you can do it standing or on the bench right? Like this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E8NuWzb-oQ

[davisj3537]

But you can do it standing or on the bench right? Like this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E8NuWzb-oQ

Take it from the man himself @ 5:44.



Upward torso angle, no elbow flare and rowed to stomach.

[razman123]

You aren't able to keep your elbow out on DB rows easily at all. It's very difficult and no one does it correctly so it isn't a good sub for pendlays.

so is a wide grip seated row a good substitute?

[davisj3537]

so is a wide grip seated row a good substitute?

Yes

[dgoyena216]

One's deadlift should technically be higher than squats right?

[davisj3537]

One's deadlift should technically be higher than squats right?

For non elite lifters yes. If you squat 800lbs then maybe not.

[MyEgoProblem]

Hi, you mentioned Dips on the 5 day hybrid routine as a downward push movement. is there any movements that stimulates dips or another downward push movements ?
I've been mind-storming but I don't know of any movements like that.

Decline bb/db bench.
Assist dip machine.
Pressdown machine.
Decline hammer strength machine.
High to low cable Fly.
Weighed pushups with hands raised. I guess.

[davisj3537]

Hi, you mentioned Dips on the 5 day hybrid routine as a downward push movement. is there any movements that stimulates dips or another downward push movements ?
I've been mind-storming but I don't know of any movements like that.

Having a downward press really isn't important at all IMO. You could do decline, but I'd sub it with any kind of chest exercise you enjoy.

Ego, got it first. I'm impressed with how much you came up with.