"Fierce 5" Comprehensive Program List

[ken8897]

You took out all the good things like balance and efficiency and replaced it with unbalanced growth and excessive volume.

If I do your UpperB & LowerA as is in the weekend and Workout B as is on Wed, will that work? Or I better do the Novice 3 days a week, as suggested by Cranz, even though I have 2 days back to back (Sat & Sun)?

Can I still do the rotator cuff exercises or they're considered excessive volume, even though they're high reps and low weight? I'm doing them to help with shoulder injury.

Thanks for feedbacks.

[davisj3537]

Hey, Davis, me again

Quick question, I have a felling the answer is going to be "No" but here we go anyway. On Squats can we substitute them with Box Squats if we don't have a spotter? Oh by the way thanks for introducing the Front Squat to me, it was a very humbling experience trying to figure out the weight I could sling, 125 pounds only, I think I am not use to the front load of the weight and my shoulders and wrist took a beating today. I was also wondering why I get the form down if I decide to DL for a month while my wrist and shoulders get used to the exercise, can I correct the weight accordingly to my actual ability of the exercise.

Once again Thanks John

Also the Box Squat is kind of a safety thing for me, under load I can become unstable due to my Big toe getting blown off in Afghanistan, Bastards

Feel free to do box squats. They are a fantastic exercise. I will say that if you are in a cage with the safeties set at the right height you shouldn't have a problem squatting without a spotter.

Modify your grip for front squats. You don't actually hold the bar, but just barely touch it with your fingers. Your hands are only on the bar to help keep your elbows up. If you don't feel comfy with that then go for the cross arm grip. No issues, particularly with the intermediate plan, in modifying weights as you progress with form.

If I do your UpperB & LowerA as is in the weekend and Workout B as is on Wed, will that work? Or I better do the Novice 3 days a week, as suggested by Cranz, even though I have 2 days back to back (Sat & Sun)?

Can I still do the rotator cuff exercises or they're considered excessive volume, even though they're high reps and low weight? I'm doing them to help with shoulder injury.

Thanks for feedbacks.

If you are only available to workout W, F, S then you can't do the full body program. The shoulder exercises were fine, it is the pressing/pulling you added that messed it up. One thing I'll caution you with shoulder exercises is to do 3xmore external work than internal...shoulder issues RARELY come from internal deficiencies. These shoulder exercises should be a warm up or cool down. There shouldn't be any fatigue involved hence they aren't really any work sets so I don't even count them.

[ken8897]

If you are only available to workout W, F, S then you can't do the full body program. The shoulder exercises were fine, it is the pressing/pulling you added that messed it up. One thing I'll caution you with shoulder exercises is to do 3xmore external work than internal...shoulder issues RARELY come from internal deficiencies. These shoulder exercises should be a warm up or cool down. There shouldn't be any fatigue involved hence they aren't really any work sets so I don't even count them.

Understood. Will do as programmed.

Didn't know about the need to do more external rotation. Will do lot more of them daily at home. Thanks!

[VanillaBearB]

I'm finding that although my training intensity is going up and up, my actual cardiovascular fitness is suffering.

I'm doing the Legs Push Pull and was thinking perhaps of doing a little bit of conditioning. Maybe like a small circuit session, or complexes, or kettlebells? Purely to get my heart rate up, but I hate typical cardio.

What do you think Davis? As long as I eat enough to recover obviously, when would you recommend doing conditioning work / do you think a kettlebell circuit is too much?

[davisj3537]

I'm finding that although my training intensity is going up and up, my actual cardiovascular fitness is suffering.

I'm doing the Legs Push Pull and was thinking perhaps of doing a little bit of conditioning. Maybe like a small circuit session, or complexes, or kettlebells? Purely to get my heart rate up, but I hate typical cardio.

What do you think Davis? As long as I eat enough to recover obviously, when would you recommend doing conditioning work / do you think a kettlebell circuit is too much?

I don't think that would ruin it. As long as you are reasonable with it go for it.

[VanillaBearB]

I don't think that would ruin it. As long as you are reasonable with it go for it.

When do you reckon would be best to do it? Thinking that a lot of kettlebell stuff works posterior chain, don't want to have it impacting on my leg training. Maybe on my push day as I have reduced volume that day?

[davisj3537]

When do you reckon would be best to do it? Thinking that a lot of kettlebell stuff works posterior chain, don't want to have it impacting on my leg training. Maybe on my push day as I have reduced volume that day?

I'd be tempted to put it on any day that is followed by a rest day.

[Jaydogg717]

i'm trying to decide between your lpp or Coolcicada's but doing it as an lpp. This might sound a little "bro" but the reason i like his is there are 2 exercises for arms instead of one like yours, but i like your layout and other exercises better.

Edit: i'd like to mention i have herniated discs so not trying to make an excuse but if i did do deadlifts they would be light as fuk and prolly not worth it.

[21infantry]

Hey Davis, just reporting in Almost done with week 2 of U/L intermediate split. I am not a expert or anything on the exercises chosen or the balance of the program, Ill take your word on that. But even with the 10% deload I am feeling this program like no other I have been on. Im just sore even with the deload, I know that doesn't mean much but I have the feeling the balance of the program has worked my muscles in a different way, and thats with lower volume as well. Feel sore but feeling strong. Cant wait for the next Cycle to ramp up the weight.

[davisj3537]

Hey Davis, just reporting in Almost done with week 2 of U/L intermediate split. I am not a expert or anything on the exercises chosen or the balance of the program, Ill take your word on that. But even with the 10% deload I am feeling this program like no other I have been on. Im just sore even with the deload, I know that doesn't mean much but I have the feeling the balance of the program has worked my muscles in a different way, and thats with lower volume as well. Feel sore but feeling strong. Cant wait for the next Cycle to ramp up the weight.

I'm glad you are enjoying it man. I think most people would be surprised how effective low volume is for major compound improvement. I myself have seen significant results by lowering volume when everyone else seems to thing raising it is the go to solution. Keep trucking along man. Start a log if you like. I'll follow it.

i'm trying to decide between your lpp or Coolcicada's but doing it as an lpp. This might sound a little "bro" but the reason i like his is there are 2 exercises for arms instead of one like yours, but i like your layout and other exercises better.

Edit: i'd like to mention i have herniated discs so not trying to make an excuse but if i did do deadlifts they would be light as fuk and prolly not worth it.

I know CC PPL is popular. I'm not saying it is bad. With a few small changes I'm on board with it...however, one of those changes is removing a bicep exercise on pull day. lol

That program doesn't have a good ham/quad balance. Easily fixed subbing the leg extensions with something like good mornings or RDL. It also needs a second downward pull like a chin up or something in place of a curl exercise. Chin ups hit biceps pretty hard so it isn't like you are missing out.

You'll be fine either way.

[stitch123]

Is there a way to get a balanced lower workout (in the upper lower) using just a barbell/dumbells. Would front squat, rdl and calf raises (taken from your novice workout) be adequate?

On a side note I can't have spinal compression so usually do Bulgarian split squats as my squat and I'm working on wrist flexibility for front squats.

[davisj3537]

Is there a way to get a balanced lower workout (in the upper lower) using just a barbell/dumbells. Would front squat, rdl and calf raises (taken from your novice workout) be adequate?

On a side note I can't have spinal compression so usually do Bulgarian split squats as my squat and I'm working on wrist flexibility for front squats.

I'd suggest changing it to this

Lower A
Squats 3x5
Weighted Back Extensions 3x8
Leg Press 3x10
RDL or Good Morning 3x10
Ab work 3x15/Calf raises 3x12 Superset

Lower B
Front Squat 3x5
Romanian Deadlift 3x8
Split Squat (very similar to lunge) 3x8
Ab work 3x15/Calf Raises 3x12 Superset

I'd consider doubling ab work on Lower B since you have an extra slot. Also, experiment with a cross arm grip for front squats.

[iTonyMontana]

Would you advice abeginner skinny guy to follow this program who will be eating 3000 calls plus a day. This would be my first program?

[davisj3537]

Would you advice abeginner skinny guy to follow this program who will be eating 3000 calls plus a day. This would be my first program?

I don't know anything about your diet, but the full body program is the best beginner program available IMO. If I didn't think so I wouldn't have written it.

[IvyKun]

Hi davis,

I've been doing for more than a year all pros but I'm having trouble increasing my weights, I repeated a few cycles with the same weight with not much luck. Too slow progress even when my weight is increasing. I am also a little bored of it.
So for my next bulk I plan to change to your upper/lower, I want to try upper lower to change from fullbody, but I am really weak so maybe I should run the novice program?

Squat: 165x8
Bench: 143x10
Row: 100x10
OHP: 77x10

I'm 154lbs. Diet is on check, I will be at 300/400 caloric surplus.

What do you think?

[davisj3537]

Hi davis,

I've been doing for more than a year all pros but I'm having trouble increasing my weights, I repeated a few cycles with the same weight with not much luck. Too slow progress even when my weight is increasing. I am also a little bored of it.
So for my next bulk I plan to change to your upper/lower, I want to try upper lower to change from fullbody, but I am really weak so maybe I should run the novice program?

Squat: 165x8
Bench: 143x10
Row: 100x10
OHP: 77x10

I'm 154lbs. Diet is on check, I will be at 300/400 caloric surplus.

What do you think?

You could go either way. I'd say your upper body is intermediate, but lower body needs the beginner program. You would be fine either way. I don't think the U/L is a bad decision if you'd prefer it.

[IvyKun]

I will go with U/L then to give it a try. Thanks!

[davisj3537]

I will go with U/L then to give it a try. Thanks!

Good luck man.

[21infantry]

Looks like a lot of us (Me Included) have neglected are legs quite a bit, not saying that we haven't been doing the sets, but until recently I was all into my upper body movements compound or Iso and when it came to legs was like Meh, Ill do them but not too hard. Horrible mind set to have and one that I am slowly getting away from. Since I have been on Davis program, I have hit those legs with full intensity and effort, I am actually starting to like the squat even, though I really suck at 215x6. Oh well, remember guys its a marathon not a sprint.

Thanks Davis for the Awesome program really enjoying it so far.

[davisj3537]

Looks like a lot of us (Me Included) have neglected are legs quite a bit, not saying that we haven't been doing the sets, but until recently I was all into my upper body movements compound or Iso and when it came to legs was like Meh, Ill do them but not too hard. Horrible mind set to have and one that I am slowly getting away from. Since I have been on Davis program, I have hit those legs with full intensity and effort, I am actually starting to like the squat even, though I really suck at 215x6. Oh well, remember guys its a marathon not a sprint.

Thanks Davis for the Awesome program really enjoying it so far.

Good to hear man. You'll be surprised at how the better you get at something the more you enjoy it. When you are squatting 315 for reps you'll LOVE squats. It isn't that far away.

[FitsWannabe]

For the LU/LPP, we did squat twice per week. Do you recommend we do both same type of squat or 1 day back squat, 1 day front squat? Won't be squatting heavy on Leg day fatigue our CNS since we going for heavy deadlift after that?

As for dumbbell exercise, if my gym only have 5lbs increment per dumbbell, how would you recommend to increasing weight? For eg,
Decline dumbbell press
Week 1 3X8 @ 50lbs
Week 2 3X9 @ 50lbs
Week 3 3X8 @ 55lbs.

Will that be too much? Since that would be 10lbs increment in 2 weeks for upper lift. Or do you suggest any different progression such as increasing reps?

1 more last question, for all your routine designed, why do you set the reps range for ALL compound movement 5-6 reps instead of 8-12 reps? I know strength reps and hypertrophy reps ain't really relevant but just wondering is there any reason behind that?

[Jesse012789]

Hey Davis, just reporting in Almost done with week 2 of U/L intermediate split. I am not a expert or anything on the exercises chosen or the balance of the program, Ill take your word on that. But even with the 10% deload I am feeling this program like no other I have been on. Im just sore even with the deload, I know that doesn't mean much but I have the feeling the balance of the program has worked my muscles in a different way, and thats with lower volume as well. Feel sore but feeling strong. Cant wait for the next Cycle to ramp up the weight.

hey man im in the same exact boat at first i was like hmm this is a lot less volume then im used to but shoot i swear im feeling it its funnt how a well balenced plan can do that.... great job davis i recomend this program to every one that asks about programs now lol.

[davisj3537]

For the LU/LPP, we did squat twice per week. Do you recommend we do both same type of squat or 1 day back squat, 1 day front squat? Won't be squatting heavy on Leg day fatigue our CNS since we going for heavy deadlift after that? I wouldn't worry so much about it. You get two full days off afterwards. I'd back squat, but it is whatever.

As for dumbbell exercise, if my gym only have 5lbs increment per dumbbell, how would you recommend to increasing weight? For eg,
Decline dumbbell press
Week 1 3X8 @ 50lbs
Week 2 3X9 @ 50lbs
Week 3 3X8 @ 55lbs.

Will that be too much? Since that would be 10lbs increment in 2 weeks for upper lift. Or do you suggest any different progression such as increasing reps? I'd increase reps up to at least 10. You can play with it a bit and get back to me.

1 more last question, for all your routine designed, why do you set the reps range for ALL compound movement 5-6 reps instead of 8-12 reps? I know strength reps and hypertrophy reps ain't really relevant but just wondering is there any reason behind that? There is enough high rep work with acc stuff. This way you get both stretngth and hyper work on every day.Furthermore, increasing compounds get hard as phuck when they are done with high reps.

Answers bolded

hey man im in the same exact boat at first i was like hmm this is a lot less volume then im used to but shoot i swear im feeling it its funnt how a well balenced plan can do that.... great job davis i recomend this program to every one that asks about programs now lol.

Glad to hear it.

[FitsWannabe]

Answers bolded

Glad to hear it.

Thanks for the answer. I'm not running this routine yet. But once I started I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks!

[baynesy]

I'm a beginner who's getting fairly close to the intermediate stage.

I plan to run the fullbody for as long as I can (probably manage a few months), but after that would you suggest going to the upper/lower or straight to the LPP, seeing as they're both intermediate programs? Or is it purely preference? My goals are to bulk up 30lbs (from 165lbs at the moment) over the next few years and to get as strong as possible whilst doing that.

I kinda prefer the LPP because it incorporates deadlifts and dips as standard

[davisj3537]

I'm a beginner who's getting fairly close to the intermediate stage.

I plan to run the fullbody for as long as I can (probably manage a few months), but after that would you suggest going to the upper/lower or straight to the LPP, seeing as they're both intermediate programs? Or is it purely preference? My goals are to bulk up 30lbs (from 165lbs at the moment) over the next few years and to get as strong as possible whilst doing that.

I kinda prefer the LPP because it incorporates deadlifts and dips as standard

That is personal preference. I'd shoot for 315/225/405 before switching. It may take you longer than a few months depending on your current lifts.

[RKintaudi]

That is personal preference. I'd shoot for 315/225/405 before switching. It may take you longer than a few months depending on your current lifts.

I'm looking for a timeline on when to switch as well, I'm assuming that triple slash is Squat/Bench/Deadlift?

[baynesy]

I'm looking for a timeline on when to switch as well, I'm assuming that triple slash is Squat/Bench/Deadlift?

Admittedly I asked the original question, but yes that's what he means

[davisj3537]

^correct

[RKintaudi]

^correct

That's going to be a real test of my patience. Especially if there's stalls.

How long do you think it would take if I'm at 155/145/135?