"Fierce 5" Comprehensive Program List

[Ozieman3o5]

Hey Davis, If i understand correctly from the OP, if i do workout A on monday, then for workout A on friday i add 1 rep per set for each 5 rep exercise and 2 reps per set for each 8-12 rep exercise?, or does this only apply to certain equipment limitations?.

[davisj3537]

Hey Davis, If i understand correctly from the OP, if i do workout A on monday, then for workout A on friday i add 1 rep per set for each 5 rep exercise and 2 reps per set for each 8-12 rep exercise?, or does this only apply to certain equipment limitations?.

You don't add reps mid week. It is only for people who can't increase weight from one week to the next.


Ex: The gym only has 5lb plates making a 5lb increase on bench impossible. Increase reps for one week and then increase weight by 10lbs after second week.

Week 1 Bench:100 3x5
Week 2 Bench:100 3x6
Week 3 Bench:110 3x5

[Ozieman3o5]

You don't add reps mid week. It is only for people who can't increase weight from one week to the next.


Ex: The gym only has 5lb plates making a 5lb increase on bench impossible. Increase reps for one week and then increase weight by 10lbs after second week.

Week 1 Bench:100 3x5
Week 2 Bench:100 3x6
Week 3 Bench:110 3x5

Alright i see now, thanks. But would you see any problems if i wanted to increase the reps of the exercises for that second workout A of the week by a rep or two so that i can at least progress somewhat workout to workout?, or would you think it would be bad idea?, this is of course with me having no equipment limitations.

Also if i wanted to add some lateral raises to your routine, maybe replace the ab work with the lateral raises so that i would now be doing a superset of lateral raises and curls, and then do a couple sets of ab work after each workout, would you see any problem with this idea?.

[davisj3537]

Alright i see now, thanks. But would you see any problems if i wanted to increase the reps of the exercises for that second workout A of the week by a rep or two so that i can at least progress somewhat workout to workout?, or would you think it would be bad idea?, this is of course with me having no equipment limitations.

Also if i wanted to add some lateral raises to your routine, maybe replace the ab work with the lateral raises so that i would now be doing a superset of lateral raises and curls, and then do a couple sets of ab work after each workout, would you see any problem with this idea?.

Don't do any of that.

[connorpat1995]

Alright i see now, thanks. But would you see any problems if i wanted to increase the reps of the exercises for that second workout A of the week by a rep or two so that i can at least progress somewhat workout to workout?, or would you think it would be bad idea?, this is of course with me having no equipment limitations.

To add to what Davis said, if you add reps to the 3x5 movements you're messing with the balance of the program
Fridays are a day of relief, learn to love them. If you didn't miss anything on Monday, use them to improve on form; form can always get better and form breakdowns often cause early resets

[VanillaBearB]

I've been doing the p/p/l for a few weeks now with some minor changes:

DB Presses (incline/flat) are in the 8-10 rep range for now until my shoulder gives no pain - still progressing though.
No downwards press - hurts my ac injury
Incline Shrugs added to pull day, as well as the "plus" bit of the push up plus for 3 sets of AMRAP to work my serratus anterior.
Also doing some leg presses at the end of my leg workout to exhaust my glutes (weak area).

Other than that I've been following it to the letter and I'm really finding that my posture is improving and I'm making some gains. Great routine!

[stitch123]

What would be the advantage in the upper lower push pull legs vs the push pull legs.

[davisj3537]

I've been doing the p/p/l for a few weeks now with some minor changes:

DB Presses (incline/flat) are in the 8-10 rep range for now until my shoulder gives no pain - still progressing though.
No downwards press - hurts my ac injury
Incline Shrugs added to pull day, as well as the "plus" bit of the push up plus for 3 sets of AMRAP to work my serratus anterior.
Also doing some leg presses at the end of my leg workout to exhaust my glutes (weak area).

Other than that I've been following it to the letter and I'm really finding that my posture is improving and I'm making some gains. Great routine!

If downward presses hurt then you need to steer clear of front squats too...can't remember if I programmed them in, but just as a future reference as well. They are an acromial agitator as well. If you want to exhaust glutes I'd high advise doing a hip thrust instead of a quad dominant movement like leg press. Hip thrust would improve balance, while leg press hurts it.

What would be the advantage in the upper lower push pull legs vs the push pull legs.

Just less days per week. I hadn't intended to write an U/L, but got too many people complaining of the days per week commitment.

[VanillaBearB]

If downward presses hurt then you need to steer clear of front squats too...can't remember if I programmed them in, but just as a future reference as well. They are an acromial agitator as well. If you want to exhaust glutes I'd high advise doing a hip thrust instead of a quad dominant movement like leg press. Hip thrust would improve balance, while leg press hurts it.

Just less days per week. I hadn't intended to write an U/L, but got too many people complaining of the days per week commitment.

Aye, i've already stopped front squatting as per your recommendation (don't worry, wouldn't expect you to remember!) - I'll try out the hip thrusts.

[davisj3537]

Aye, i've already stopped front squatting as per your recommendation (don't worry, wouldn't expect you to remember!) - I'll try out the hip thrusts.

Sweet. Yeah it can be hard to remember. So many posts. lol

[DorianJ]

Two questions: can you explain in more details how to warmups? Why warmup sets fatigue me so much that I lift way less than when I start fresh no warmup even though I know it's a dangerous thing to do?

What's the proper form for RDL? Everyone seem to disagree on RDL form

[BenD4Me]

gonna switch to your intermediate routine once im done cutting, hopefully ill get better results then ive gotten on icf.

[VanillaBearB]

Sweet. Yeah it can be hard to remember. So many posts. lol

Haha, seems like you're the go-to guy on the forums now for anything postural or injury related.

Having said that, I think I'm starting to get a compensation injury. It's my right shoulder that is injured...and the medial aspect of my left knee is giving me a little pain, with some clicking. Going to stay off the back squats for a little bit and work on some box squats to take the pressure of my knee - think it might be hamstring tightness causing it, so i'll work on that.

[AugustineV]

Two questions: can you explain in more details how to warmups? Why warmup sets fatigue me so much that I lift way less than when I start fresh no warmup even though I know it's a dangerous thing to do?

What's the proper form for RDL? Everyone seem to disagree on RDL form

Warm up sets are suppose to be light, I do them like this
2x5xbar (at least for the first 2, can be 1x10xbar if low on time)
1x5x40% work set
1x3x60% work set
1x2x80% work set
3x5x100% work set

For benching I do
2x5xbar
1x5x50%
1x3x70%
1x2x90%
3x5x100%

This is just what I've rounded off the individual warm-ups to be from a Starting Strength excel sheet. The time between warm-up sets is usually however long it takes me to change the weight, maybe a little longer if I'm tired that day. As for warm up prior to starting the exercises, just do the foam rolling or similar to the video in the OP

Just noticed the RDL question. I don't currently do them, but I would just follow what is on exrx or look up a video on youtube, and pick whatever you are most comfortable doing/what appears to be safe for you.

[davisj3537]

Two questions: can you explain in more details how to warmups? Why warmup sets fatigue me so much that I lift way less than when I start fresh no warmup even though I know it's a dangerous thing to do?

What's the proper form for RDL? Everyone seem to disagree on RDL form

I see Augustine has already beat me to this, but I've already typed it out so here ya go.

The best thing is for me to give you an example. For squat work sets of 315x5 I'll warm up with 135x8, 185x5, 225x5, 275x3...the volume continues to decrease as you get closer to your work sets. You should not be fatigued AT ALL.

RDL-Hips moving backward is the key to entire lift. You'll feel like you are almost going to fall over backwards when doing them. At mid shin if you moved your hips back well, you'll feel a really good stretch in the hamstrings. Drag the bar back up your legs and drive your hips forward. Think about flexing glutes and hams to do this.

gonna switch to your intermediate routine once im done cutting, hopefully ill get better results then ive gotten on icf.

Don't expect to get better results on an intermediate routine than a beginner one. Once you exhaust those beginner gains, it is an uphill battle to keep progressing.

Haha, seems like you're the go-to guy on the forums now for anything postural or injury related.

Having said that, I think I'm starting to get a compensation injury. It's my right shoulder that is injured...and the medial aspect of my left knee is giving me a little pain, with some clicking. Going to stay off the back squats for a little bit and work on some box squats to take the pressure of my knee - think it might be hamstring tightness causing it, so i'll work on that.

Well I don't know about that. lol.

Sorry to hear of your injury. Very few people have issues with overdeveloped or tight hamstrings...not to say that isn't your issue, but something to consider.

[4567081110]

After initially planning on doing SS I've decided to go with your full body program. It looks like a lot of fun and the volume seems manageable (my recovery isn't great because I'm 33 years old and not an experienced lifter by any means). My only gripe is that there's no deadlifts. Is there a way to incorporate them, even if it's just 1x5?

It's alright if you advise against it, but I do enjoy that lift.

[connorpat1995]

After initially planning on doing SS I've decided to go with your full body program. It looks like a lot of fun and the volume seems manageable (my recovery isn't great because I'm 33 years old and not an experienced lifter by any means). My only gripe is that there's no deadlifts. Is there a way to incorporate them, even if it's just 1x5?

It's alright if you advise against it, but I do enjoy that lift.

Workout B:
switch front squats to Deadlift, still 3x5
Switch RDL to leg curls 3x8, still 3x8

I know I sound like a broken record on this but starting a log in the "Workout Journals" section helps a ton in keeping consistent and staying motivated

[4567081110]

Workout B:
switch front squats to Deadlift, still 3x5
Switch RDL to leg curls 3x8, still 3x8

I know I sound like a broken record on this but starting a log in the "Workout Journals" section helps a ton in keeping consistent and staying motivated

Thanks a lot! I like the idea of starting a log. I'm gonna start when I switch from Golds Gym Express to a better gym, which should be within the next week or two.

[TexanByChoice]

Is there a way to do the fierce 5 workout incorporating 5/3/1 on the big 4 lifts? Has anyone tried this out before? Very interested in the four day a week The Intermediate Upper/Lower. I start coaching football here in a week and need a good four day a week routine. Thanks for reading this.

[davisj3537]

Is there a way to do the fierce 5 workout incorporating 5/3/1 on the big 4 lifts? Has anyone tried this out before? Very interested in the four day a week The Intermediate Upper/Lower. I start coaching football here in a week and need a good four day a week routine. Thanks for reading this.

I don't see any problem with that. Realize it will lead to slower gains if you add weight monthly instead of every other week. Give it a shot if you like. I'd be interested to read it if you logged it.

[TexanByChoice]

I don't see any problem with that. Realize it will lead to slower gains if you add weight monthly instead of every other week. Give it a shot if you like. I'd be interested to read it if you logged it.

Good point. I think I'm going to stick with the Intermediate Upper/Lower split as is or the Intermediate Upper/Lower and LPP 5 Day Plan. Hard for me to decide I like to workout 5 days a week. During football season it can be a challenge to find 5 days every week.

[davisj3537]

Good point. I think I'm going to stick with the Intermediate Upper/Lower split as is or the Intermediate Upper/Lower and LPP 5 Day Plan. Hard for me to decide I like to workout 5 days a week. During football season it can be a challenge to find 5 days every week.

If I had to pick a favorite it would be the U/L PPL program. So much variety. Thank you Layne Norton. lol

[Cranz]

I've been following the PPL since early june on a cut, but when the UL/PPL was posted, I couldn't resist changing, the routine fits my schedule way better. ( I had no intentions of changing). I think I followed it a day after it was posted, lol.

Anyways, I've come in to say that I'm very happy with the routine, I'm seeing great success. My shoulders feel much much better. I no longer have wrist, elbow or shoulder pain. All my lifts have been going up ( I think I only stalled twice, and that was this week because I have been progressing linearly for nearly 2-3 months on a cut)., even my bench press which was a disaster because of imbalance issues. I believe the amount of balanced shoulder work in this routine helped it.

I've a question though, and I'm not sure if this is a myth, would sprinting/running have an effect on body fat storage? The only thing that keeps me cutting is my big legs/butt , I've heard some say running would not spot reduce fat, but help keeping fat storage away from there ( might be a myth, not sure), so If I were to run before leg day, how much would this effect my squat?

[davisj3537]

I've been following the PPL since early june on a cut, but when the UL/PPL was posted, I couldn't resist changing, the routine fits my schedule way better. ( I had no intentions of changing). I think I followed it a day after it was posted, lol.

Anyways, I've come in to say that I'm very happy with the routine, I'm seeing great success. My shoulders feel much much better. I no longer have wrist, elbow or shoulder pain. All my lifts have been going up ( I think I only stalled twice, and that was this week because I have been progressing linearly for nearly 2-3 months on a cut)., even my bench press which was a disaster because of imbalance issues. I believe the amount of balanced shoulder work in this routine helped it.

I've a question though, and I'm not sure if this is a myth, would sprinting/running have an effect on body fat storage? The only thing that keeps me cutting is my big legs/butt , I've heard some say running would not spot reduce fat, but help keeping fat storage away from there ( might be a myth, not sure), so If I were to run before leg day, how much would this effect my squat?

Great news man! Thanks for the update.

I don't really think running is going to help you any more than a calorie deficit. If you got into anything, I'd look into advanced dieting techniques in terms of macro breakdowns and timing. This is of course given you are already strictly watching your cals/macros.

[mrk_bb]

I can only workout Mon, Tue, Wed, Thur each week.

I haven't lifted in the last two years. When I was lifting, these were my numbers for reps.

Deadlift 235
Front Squat 165
DB Bench 65's
Weighted dips +20lbs

I like the upper/lower and think just doing it 4 days consecutively might be a bit much.

What would you suggest for my 4 consecutive day schedule?

cheers

[davisj3537]

I can only workout Mon, Tue, Wed, Thur each week.

I haven't lifted in the last two years. When I was lifting, these were my numbers for reps.

Deadlift 235
Front Squat 165
DB Bench 65's
Weighted dips +20lbs

I like the upper/lower and think just doing it 4 days consecutively might be a bit much.

What would you suggest for my 4 consecutive day schedule?

cheers

Sounds like if you can't get another gym day that is your best bet. Use novice progression for the Upper/Lower though.

[ken8897]

Due to time constraint, I can workout only in the weekend and 1 weekday. I plan to do a hybrid of fullbody and upper/lower like below. Will this work? Any changes needed? If useful: Bench 5x190, Squat 5x255.

Saturday – Upper (from Upper B)
Bench 3x5
DB Overhead Press 3x8 (instead of Incline Flies)
Chin Ups 3x8 (instead of Pullup)
Pendlay Rows 3x8
Inverted Rows 2xF
Decline Pushup 2xF
Rotator Cuff: Int & Ext Rotation, Facepull, Cuban Press – about 30-50 reps at low weight (10 lbs)

Sunday – Lower (from Lower A)
Squat 3x5
Weighted Back Extension 3x8
Leg Press 3x10
Lying Leg Curls 3x10
S/S Hanging Leg Raises 3x15/ Calf Raises 3x12
Rotator Cuff: DB Front Raises, DB lateral Raises, DB Rear Delt Fly – about 30-50 reps at low weight (10 lbs)
LISS Cardio 15m

Wednesday – Fullbody (from Workout B)
F. Squat 5x3
BB Overhead Press 3x5 (instead of Incline Bench 3x5)
Romanian Deadlift 3x8
Lat Pulldown 3x8
Seated Cable Row 2x8
Chest Dips 2xF
Rotator Cuff: Int & Ext Rotation, Facepull, Cuban Press – about 30-50 reps at low weight (10 lbs)
LISS Cardio 15m

Thanks for the good program and for reading this.

[Cranz]

Due to time constraint, I can workout only in the weekend and 1 weekday. I plan to do a hybrid of fullbody and upper/lower like below. Will this work? Any changes needed? If useful: Bench 5x190, Squat 5x255.

Saturday – Upper (from Upper B)
Bench 3x5
DB Overhead Press 3x8 (instead of Incline Flies)
Chin Ups 3x8 (instead of Pullup)
Pendlay Rows 3x8
Inverted Rows 2xF
Decline Pushup 2xF
Rotator Cuff: Int & Ext Rotation, Facepull, Cuban Press – about 30-50 reps at low weight (10 lbs)

Sunday – Lower (from Lower A)
Squat 3x5
Weighted Back Extension 3x8
Leg Press 3x10
Lying Leg Curls 3x10
S/S Hanging Leg Raises 3x15/ Calf Raises 3x12
Rotator Cuff: DB Front Raises, DB lateral Raises, DB Rear Delt Fly – about 30-50 reps at low weight (10 lbs)
LISS Cardio 15m

Wednesday – Fullbody (from Workout B)
F. Squat 5x3
BB Overhead Press 3x5 (instead of Incline Bench 3x5)
Romanian Deadlift 3x8
Lat Pulldown 3x8
Seated Cable Row 2x8
Chest Dips 2xF
Rotator Cuff: Int & Ext Rotation, Facepull, Cuban Press – about 30-50 reps at low weight (10 lbs)
LISS Cardio 15m

Thanks for the good program and for reading this.

I'm not davis, but I don't see any relation between this and his own post. That's a totally different routine IMO. If you can only workout 3 days a week, then do his novice full body.

[davisj3537]

Due to time constraint, I can workout only in the weekend and 1 weekday. I plan to do a hybrid of fullbody and upper/lower like below. Will this work? Any changes needed? If useful: Bench 5x190, Squat 5x255.

Saturday – Upper (from Upper B)
Bench 3x5
DB Overhead Press 3x8 (instead of Incline Flies)
Chin Ups 3x8 (instead of Pullup)
Pendlay Rows 3x8
Inverted Rows 2xF
Decline Pushup 2xF
Rotator Cuff: Int & Ext Rotation, Facepull, Cuban Press – about 30-50 reps at low weight (10 lbs)

Sunday – Lower (from Lower A)
Squat 3x5
Weighted Back Extension 3x8
Leg Press 3x10
Lying Leg Curls 3x10
S/S Hanging Leg Raises 3x15/ Calf Raises 3x12
Rotator Cuff: DB Front Raises, DB lateral Raises, DB Rear Delt Fly – about 30-50 reps at low weight (10 lbs)
LISS Cardio 15m

Wednesday – Fullbody (from Workout B)
F. Squat 5x3
BB Overhead Press 3x5 (instead of Incline Bench 3x5)
Romanian Deadlift 3x8
Lat Pulldown 3x8
Seated Cable Row 2x8
Chest Dips 2xF
Rotator Cuff: Int & Ext Rotation, Facepull, Cuban Press – about 30-50 reps at low weight (10 lbs)
LISS Cardio 15m

Thanks for the good program and for reading this.

You took out all the good things like balance and efficiency and replaced it with unbalanced growth and excessive volume.

[21infantry]

Hey, Davis, me again

Quick question, I have a felling the answer is going to be "No" but here we go anyway. On Squats can we substitute them with Box Squats if we don't have a spotter? Oh by the way thanks for introducing the Front Squat to me, it was a very humbling experience trying to figure out the weight I could sling, 125 pounds only, I think I am not use to the front load of the weight and my shoulders and wrist took a beating today. I was also wondering why I get the form down if I decide to DL for a month while my wrist and shoulders get used to the exercise, can I correct the weight accordingly to my actual ability of the exercise.

Once again Thanks John

Also the Box Squat is kind of a safety thing for me, under load I can become unstable due to my Big toe getting blown off in Afghanistan, Bastards