"Fierce 5" Comprehensive Program List

[BlueDay93]

On the novice program it stays to drop the weight 15% when you fail.

Is this 15% of the weight including the bar or just the weight on the bar?

So if I fail OHP with 20kg on the bar... Do I drop 15% of of 20kg or 15% of 40kg as the bar adds an extra 20kg?

(Sorry its in KG and not lbs I'm English)

[MyEgoProblem]

On the novice program it stays to drop the weight 15% when you fail.

Is this 15% of the weight including the bar or just the weight on the bar?

So if I fail OHP with 20kg on the bar... Do I drop 15% of of 20kg or 15% of 40kg as the bar adds an extra 20kg?

(Sorry its in KG and not lbs I'm English)

Weight always includes the bar.
You pull that % from the total load of plates and bar.

[fitnessguyuk]

This programme is inspiring. Love it - thanks for doing this.

[centgas]

I am also looking to swap the front squat in the upper/lower. Ideally for leg press, but since we already have this in Lower A, are we ok with doing it on both lower days? For curiosity, how come lunges /split squats arent an acceptable sub?

Thx

[TAWS6]

I am also looking to swap the front squat in the upper/lower. Ideally for leg press, but since we already have this in Lower A, are we ok with doing it on both lower days? For curiosity, how come lunges /split squats arent an acceptable sub?

Thx

Leg pressing on both lower days is completely fine. I also see no problem with lunges and split squats being acceptable subs. Id assume the author just didn't want to list every acceptable sub possible because that would take awhile.

[Puglett]

I’m currently on the novice routine after coming back to lifting after a hiatus and just wanted to say thank you David for these awesome routines. I’m loving F5 novice and have full intention on using the F5 U/L once I can no longer progress on the novice.

[brunogouveia58]

Intermediate/Advanced 5 Day Lower/Upper LPP

Lower A
Squats 3x5-6
Weighted Back Extensions 3x8-10
Leg Press 3x8-10
Leg Curls 3x10-12
Ab work 3x15-18/Calf raises 3x12-15 Superset

Upper A
Incline Bench 3x5-6
Decline DB Bench 3x8-10
Lat Pulldowns 3x8-10 (any grip)
Bent Over Rows 3x8-10
Curls 3x8-10/Face Pulls 3x10-12 Superset

Legs
*Squat 3x5-6
*DL 3x5-6
Good Morning 3x8-10
Leg Extensions/Leg curls (Superset 3x10-12)
Calf work 3x12-15/Optional Shrugs 3x8-10 (Superset)

Push
*Bench(Horizontal Press) 3x5-6
*OHP(Upward Press) 3x5-6
Dips or fly 3x8-10
Overhead Extensions(long head iso)-3x8-10/Ab work-3x12-15 (Superset)
Lateral Raises 3x10-12

Pull
*Pendlay Rows(Horizontal Pull) 3x5-6
Yates Rows(Upward Pull) 3x5-6
Lat Pulldowns(Downward Pull) 3x8-10 (any grip)
Reverse Flies/Overhead face pulls (Superset 3x10-12) (For facepulls think 60 degree incline for the angle)
Curls 3x8-10


You will be working out 2 consecutive days followed by a rest day and then 3 more consecutive days.

Mon-Lower A
Tue-Upper A
Wed-Rest
Thu-Legs (w/ DL)
Fri-Push
Sat-Pull
Sun-Rest
Repeat

You’ll add 5 lbs to all of your upper body lifts* and 10lbs to all of your lower body lifts every 2 weeks. After 1 week increase the reps from the lower rep range to the higher rep range.

*The weight increases are halved between DB exercises. Use your best judgment on weight increases for isolation exercises. The progression may be too fast.

Optional extra set-There is an * next to exercises that you can do an extra heavy single, double or triple set each day. Pick one exercise per day. These aren’t max attempts. It is just a fun way to jump out of your normal set/rep scheme.

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how do I do when a series fails? lower the weight in the next series or keep and try again

[brunogouveia58]

The Intermediate Upper/Lower

Upper A
Bench 3x5
Incline Bench 3x8
Lat Pulldowns 3x8 (any grip)
Bent Over Rows 3x8
Curls 3x10/Reverse Flies 3x12 Superset

Lower A
Squats 3x5
Weighted Back Extensions 3x8
Leg Press 3x10
Leg Curls 3x10
Ab work 3x15/Calf raises 3x12 Superset

Upper B
OHP 3x5
Flies 3x10
Pullups 3x8
Pendlay Rows 3x8
Face Pulls 3x12/Tricep pressdowns 3x10 Superset

Lower B
Front Squat 3x5
Romanian Deadlift 3x8
Leg Extensions 3x10
Leg Curls 3x10
Ab work 3x15/Calf Raises 3x12 Superset

You will be working out 2 consecutive days followed by a rest day and then 2 more consecutive days. Ex: Mon-Upper A, Tues-Lower A, Wed-Rest, Thur-Upper B, Fri-Lower B, Sat-Rest, Sun-Rest, Mon-Upper A…etc.

You’ll add 5 lbs to all of your upper body lifts* and 10lbs to all of your lower body lifts every 2 weeks. After 1 week increase the reps by 1 on every set. Ex: Instead of doing bench 3x5 you'll do 3x6. At the end of that week weight increases and the reps will drop back down to 3x5.

*The weight increases are halved between DB exercises. Use your best judgment on weight increases for isolation exercises. The progression may be too fast.


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how do I do when a series fails? lower the weight in the next series or keep and try again

[RapidFail]

how do I do when a series fails? lower the weight in the next series or keep and try again

You needed to read on a few posts down:

"What do I do if I fail on my sets? If you fail a lift two days in a row then drop the weight 10% for the lift you are failing. This is a good time to work on form since the weight is a bit lighter again. Form can make or break your lift. This program won't work if you don't drop weight when you fail an exercise. This varying intensity is a crucial aspect of any good program."

[paulinkansas]

You needed to read on a few posts down:

"What do I do if I fail on my sets? If you fail a lift two days in a row then drop the weight 10% for the lift you are failing. This is a good time to work on form since the weight is a bit lighter again. Form can make or break your lift. This program won't work if you don't drop weight when you fail an exercise. This varying intensity is a crucial aspect of any good program."

I failed to do dumb bell OHP for 16 reps with 35 pounders last year. Twice. I dropped my reps down to 12 for a week, then 13, then 14, you get the idea. Now I can do 20 reps with 40 pounders with some left in the tank.

[brunogouveia58]

You needed to read on a few posts down:

"What do I do if I fail on my sets? If you fail a lift two days in a row then drop the weight 10% for the lift you are failing. This is a good time to work on form since the weight is a bit lighter again. Form can make or break your lift. This program won't work if you don't drop weight when you fail an exercise. This varying intensity is a crucial aspect of any good program."

I was in doubt for the isolation exercises I thought it was only for compounds

[BlueDay93]

I've subbed the front squat and RDL in the novice routine for deadlift and leg curl like it says you can do.. My gym has a seated leg curl and laying leg curl, I assume it doesn't matter which I use?

Also it says you can sub face pulls for reverse flies... Are machine reverse flies on the pec deck acceptable?

It also says reverse flies increase 5lbs per month is that right? Why is it the only lift that doesn't progress each week as opposed to face pulls which does?

Thanks

[TAWS6]

I've subbed the front squat and RDL in the novice routine for deadlift and leg curl like it says you can do.. My gym has a seated leg curl and laying leg curl, I assume it doesn't matter which I use?

Also it says you can sub face pulls for reverse flies... Are machine reverse flies on the pec deck acceptable?

It also says reverse flies increase 5lbs per month is that right? Why is it the only lift that doesn't progress each week as opposed to face pulls which does?

Thanks

It doesn't matter much but the laying leg curl will be slightly more effective. No big deal really.
Machine reverse flies are fine
Reverse flies progress much slower because its an isolated movement not a power lift. They are not meant to go heavy on. The same goes for face pulls since they are an interchangeable exercises.
Don't worry to much able the little details just get those big lifts up.

[metallick]

The Original
Workout A1
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Pendlay Rows 3x8
Reverse Flies 3x8
Calf extensions 2x15/Tricep pressdowns 2x10 Superset
Workout B1
Deadlift 3x5
OHP 3x5
Lat Pulldowns 3x8
Leg Curls 3x8
Crunches or situps 2x15/Barbell Curls 2x10 Superset
Workout A2
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Pendlay Rows 3x8
Reverse Flies 3x8
Calf extensions 2x15/Tricep pressdowns 2x10 Superset
Workout B2
Deadlift 3x5
OHP 3x5
Lat Pulldowns 3x8
Leg Curls 3x8
Leg raises 2x15/Curls 2x10 Superset

REP OPTIONS

Option 1- You like the format, but you would like a little more emphasis on size.
Workout A1
Squat 3x10
Bench 3x10
Pendlay Rows 3x10
Reverse Flies 3x10
Calf extensions 2x15/Tricep pressdowns 2x10 Superset
Workout B1
Deadlift 3x5
OHP 3x10
Lat Pulldowns 3x10
Leg Curls 3x10
Crunches or situps 2x15/Curls 2x10 Superset
Workout A1
Squat 3x10
Bench 3x10
Pendlay Rows 3x10
Reverse Flies 3x10
Calf extensions 2x15/Tricep pressdowns 2x10 Superset
Workout B2
Deadlift 3x5
OHP 3x10
Lat Pulldowns 3x10
Leg Curls 3x10
Leg raises 2x15/Curls 2x10 Superset

Option 2- You like smashing heavy weights, but you want a little emphasis on size too.
Workout A1
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Pendlay Rows 3x8
Reverse Flies 3x8
Calf extensions 2x15/Tricep pressdowns 2x10 Superset
Workout B1
Deadlift 3x5
OHP 3x5
Lat Pulldowns 3x8
Leg Curls 3x8
Crunches or situps 2x15/Curls 2x10 Superset
Workout A2
Squat 3x10
Bench 3x10
Pendlay Rows 3x10
Reverse Flies 3x10
Calf extensions 2x15/Tricep pressdowns 2x10 Superset
Workout B2
Deadlift 3x5
OHP 3x10
Lat Pulldowns 3x10
Leg Curls 3x10
Leg Raises 2x15/Curls 2x10 Superset

Acceptable substitutions

Face Pulls-Reverse Flies
Tricep pressdowns-overhead extensions, skull crushers…etc. (basically any tricep isolation exercise)
Lat Pulldowns-Any form of pull/chin up. You’ll need a dip belt to add weight. (You need a pull from above your head)
Overhead Press-Incline Bench
Pendlay Rows-Any horizontal pull to the chest with a wide grip and elbows at 45 degrees. NOT BOR. See FAQ.
Bench-Decline bench, dips (leaning forward) You’ll need a dip belt to add weight
Front Squat/RDL-You have to swap both for a Deadlift and a leg curl. This isn’t an either or kind of substitution.
Front Squat-Paused back squats

Is the OG Fierce 5 still viable? Particularly with how incline was a possible sub for OHP and the rep options as seen with Option 2.

I had to use Wayback Machine for this because I remembered it being much different; was planning on weight lifting several years back in high school but my gym didn't allow minors without a legal adult and my dad was too busy to drive me lol.

I'm already doing a Full body routine but it takes too long and would like to change it up

[MyEgoProblem]

Is the OG Fierce 5 still viable? Particularly with how incline was a possible sub for OHP and the rep options as seen with Option 2.

I had to use Wayback Machine for this because I remembered it being much different; was planning on weight lifting several years back in high school but my gym didn't allow minors without a legal adult and my dad was too busy to drive me lol.

I'm already doing a Full body routine but it takes too long and would like to change it up

It changed for many reasons and is better now after the revisions than the first edition.

BUT. it will still work..

Much sooner stalls where the results of the higher rep version tho.

[metallick]

It changed for many reasons and is better now after the revisions than the first edition.

BUT. it will still work..

Much sooner stalls where the results of the higher rep version tho.

I can definitely see your point, particularly with the high rep version. It does look fun, though the thought of 10 rep squats gives me dread.

[MyEgoProblem]

I can definitely see your point, particularly with the high rep version. It does look fun, though the thought of 10 rep squats gives me dread.

OK so I need to clarify my points.
This is on me not you. I was just busy and half arsed my post.

This version of the og... I very much like.. It was the 10 rep set variations I don't rate or recommend..

The Original
Workout A1
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Pendlay Rows 3x8
Reverse Flies 3x8
Calf extensions 2x15/Tricep pressdowns 2x10 Superset

Workout B1
Deadlift 3x5
OHP 3x5
Lat Pulldowns 3x8
Leg Curls 3x8
Crunches or situps 2x15/Barbell Curls 2x10 Superset

Workout A2
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Pendlay Rows 3x8
Reverse Flies 3x8
Calf extensions 2x15/Tricep pressdowns 2x10 Superset

Workout B2
Deadlift 3x5
OHP 3x5
Lat Pulldowns 3x8
Leg Curls 3x8
Leg raises 2x15/Curls 2x10 Superset

Id go even further further to suggest that I wouldn't prescribe specific isolations each day and leave it up to the lifter to choose the variation that day and just take them close to failure and do a different one every session.
They matter so little in the grand scheme that enjoying doing fun versions and getting the work in matters way more... So long as your main lifts are going up.

Workout A
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Pendlay Rows 3x8

*any Rear delts* 3x8
*any Calf raise* 2x15/*any Tricep ext* 2x10 Superset

Workout B
Deadlift 3x5
OHP 3x5
Lat Pulldowns 3x8

*Any Leg Curl version* 3x8
*any Abs* 2x15/*any bicep curl* 2x10 Superset


Rear delts. Face pull, dB rear fly, scarecrows, delt row ect
Biceps. Straight bar, ez, dB, rope, machine.
Tri. Pressdown, skull, LTE, oh French press.
Hams. Seated, laying, standing,
Abs. Crunch, pl nk twist, machine
Calfs. NO ONE DOES CALFS xD
Ect ect.

[WapanCakes]

Took a break from lifting and looking to hop on this.

Any reason why I shouldn't do flat or bench? This exercise feels much more comfortable for me in terms of shoulder joints and elbows.

[TAWS6]

It changed for many reasons and is better now after the revisions than the first edition.

BUT. it will still work..

Much sooner stalls where the results of the higher rep version tho.

I once tried bringing the 3x5 up to 3x8 and it did not go very well (on the intermediate). All I did was stall faster. Id imagine 10's would be much worse lol.

[MyEgoProblem]

I once tried bringing the 3x5 up to 3x8 and it did not go very well (on the intermediate). All I did was stall faster. Id imagine 10's would be much worse lol.

Bingo brother!...

[CheekyCuntt]

I have about one year (or close to it) of lifting experience but never have followed an actual program, was training on and off. So i want to try this out. I've heard people say that if you have close to a year of lifting experience you have exhausted your noob gains but I don't think I have? Id like to think I've still got some noob gains left in the tank. What do you guys reckon? I'm 5'8 138lbs at 18

1st ss is before I started lifting 2nd is me currently without a pump.

[TAWS6]

I have about one year (or close to it) of lifting experience but never have followed an actual program, was training on and off. So i want to try this out. I've heard people say that if you have close to a year of lifting experience you have exhausted your noob gains but I don't think I have? Id like to think I've still got some noob gains left in the tank. What do you guys reckon? I'm 5'8 138lbs at 18

1st ss is me currently unflexed without a pump.2nd screenshot is of me before I started lifting

What are your lifts on the bench, squat and dl? Can you add weight to the bar weekly ?

[CheekyCuntt]

What are your lifts on the bench, squat and dl? Can you add weight to the bar weekly ?

I'm benching with dumbbells atm for 16kg but yeah I am able to add reps easily and weight. For deadlift I'm at 47kg I'm able to add weight easily every session and my gym is poverty doesn't have a squat rack but I train legs. For lifts like OHP, pullups and row I am able to progress each session by reps.

[TAWS6]

I'm benching with dumbbells atm for 16kg but yeah I am able to add reps easily and weight. For deadlift I'm at 47kg I'm able to add weight easily every session and my gym is poverty doesn't have a squat rack but I train legs. For lifts like OHP, pullups and row I am able to progress each session by reps.

Yeah then the novice program will provide the fastest results.

[CheekyCuntt]

My only concern is the very little chest volume. I've been doing 10 sets of chest ever since I started lifting. My chest genetics are really **** and its tough to grow as is so I'm just worried that as I've been doing more chest volume and I reduce it to this, I will not gain optimal size. Could a few more sets of chest be added?

[TolerantLactose]

My only concern is the very little chest volume. I've been doing 10 sets of chest ever since I started lifting. My chest genetics are really **** and its tough to grow as is so I'm just worried that as I've been doing more chest volume and I reduce it to this, I will not gain optimal size. Could a few more sets of chest be added?

As a novice, you have little idea what your potential is. If you're deadlifting 47kg, can you say you're meeting your potential there?

If you want to add to your chest exercises, add weight. If you can't add weight at this point, volume isn't going to help.

[dgoyena216]

My only concern is the very little chest volume. I've been doing 10 sets of chest ever since I started lifting. My chest genetics are really **** and its tough to grow as is so I'm just worried that as I've been doing more chest volume and I reduce it to this, I will not gain optimal size. Could a few more sets of chest be added?

While volume is important for growth, 10 sets is pretty adequate assuming you are a beginner or going into early intermediate. But technique and form on chest movements is equally as important. Beginners tend have pretty bad benching form and then wonder why their progress on that lift isn't going that great. Shoulders dont get set correctly, loose in the upper body and loose in the legs (no leg drive), grip width not in alignment with their own anatomy (arm length, etc.) bad bar path, inconsistent touch point, head coming off the bench (this will cause you to loose the tall chest and shoulder position), etc.

You can blame genetics, but thatll be an unnecessary mental hurtle you've created. Lets chill on the genetics excuse until your benching at least your bodyweight. Are you even benching with a barbell yet?

Based on your numbers I see above, volume should be the least of your worries currently.

And you need to find a different gym that actually has racks.

[TAWS6]

My only concern is the very little chest volume. I've been doing 10 sets of chest ever since I started lifting. My chest genetics are really **** and its tough to grow as is so I'm just worried that as I've been doing more chest volume and I reduce it to this, I will not gain optimal size. Could a few more sets of chest be added?

At your level volume is not your problem. Progression is what drives growth. Once linear progression fails, move to the upper/lower to increase volume. Your chest will have grown by the time your benching 225 for reps trust me. Don't add anything to the novice program.

[brunogouveia58]

i'm doing the intermediate upper lower routine, and this week the gym closed in my country i only have barbells and dumbells, bench and rack in my house i don't have any machine which exercises can i replace the exercises with machines?

[TAWS6]

see subs in caps

i'm doing the intermediate upper lower routine, and this week the gym closed in my country i only have barbells and dumbells, bench and rack in my house i don't have any machine which exercises can i replace the exercises with machines?

The Intermediate Upper/Lower

Upper A
Bench 3x5
Incline Bench 3x8
PULL UPS 3X8
Bent Over Rows 3x8
Curls 3x10/Reverse Flies 3x12 Superset

Lower A
Squats 3x5
RDL 3X8
DB lunge 3x10
Leg Curls 3x10 (THERE REALLY IS NO SUB FOR A LEG CURL)
Ab work 3x15/Calf raises 3x12 Superset

Upper B
OHP 3x5
Flies 3x10
Pullups 3x8
Pendlay Rows 3x8
REVERSE FLY 3x12/SKULL CRUSHER 3x10 Superset

Lower B
Front Squat 3x5
Romanian Deadlift 3x8
SPLIT SQUAT 3x10
Leg Curls (NO SUB) 3x10
Ab work 3x15/Calf Raises 3x12 Superset


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