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  1. #8041
    Registered User melpa64's Avatar
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    Is doing an upper body say on a Monday resting Tuesday and upper body wednesday enough time to rest? I know everyone is different and I am still sore by the third day but is this risky? I.e. injuries.
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  2. #8042
    Registered User cubic25's Avatar
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    Hey all,

    I've started the U/L intermediate routine after having done the Novice full body for the last 6 months. I love it. I've never gained this quickly and I never realised how much I neglected legs when I was doing other routines over the years.

    I've got a couple of questions about subs.

    I have intermittent lower back problems, mostly related to work. I have a spasm around my quadratus lumborem and erector spinae. I'm no good with movements that cause me to load up in a flexed position......if that makes sense.

    Due to this, BOR and Pendlays are an issue for me.

    What would be the best exercises to sub for these?

    BOR - seated cable row?
    Pendlays - Dumbell row?

    Weighted back extensions, Romanian deads and both squat variants are fine for now, surprisingly.
    Due to equipment restriction, I've subbed leg press with front squats, so now I'm doing them twice in both Lower A and B. Is that OK?

    Also, I just need some clarification about one exercise. In both Lower A and B, it asks for leg curls. When I google leg curls, about 50 different exercises come up. Can someone please post a link to which specific one he means?

    Sorry for all the questions and thanks for the help.
    Last edited by cubic25; 04-13-2020 at 05:19 PM.
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  3. #8043
    Registered User tommy4life's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cubic25 View Post
    Hey all,

    I've started the U/L intermediate routine after having done the Novice full body for the last 6 months. I love it. I've never gained this quickly and I never realised how much I neglected legs when I was doing other routines over the years.

    I've got a couple of questions about subs.

    I have intermittent lower back problems, mostly related to work. I have a spasm around my quadratus lumborem and erector spinae. I'm no good with movements that cause me to load up in a flexed position......if that makes sense.

    Due to this, BOR and Pendlays are an issue for me.

    What would be the best exercises to sub for these?

    BOR - seated cable row?
    Pendlays - Dumbell row?

    Weighted back extensions, Romanian deads and both squat variants are fine for now, surprisingly.
    Due to equipment restriction, I've subbed leg press with front squats, so now I'm doing them twice in both Lower A and B. Is that OK?

    Also, I just need some clarification about one exercise. In both Lower A and B, it asks for leg curls. When I google leg curls, about 50 different exercises come up. Can someone please post a link to which specific one he means?

    Sorry for all the questions and thanks for the help.

    Odd that rdl and squats dont bother you but rows do, especially pendlay...might want to check form. But if you have to, BOR can be swapped for any row and pendlay for any row where elbows arw out and pulling towards the chest.

    Would be better to sub leg press for lunge variatiin (walking, reverse, split squat)

    Leg curl >
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  4. #8044
    Registered User agc1987's Avatar
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    I have a home gym with a power rack, high/low cable pull, barbell, dumbells and bench.
    I've been doing the upper /lower workout since the beginning of the year and have used numerous substitutions mentioned in this thread for things like leg press, curl and extension as I don't have the machines. I have also put in the deadlift on lower b with the subs mentioned.

    However, I'm not sure if what I am doing is for the best. Is thre anything I can do to improve the lower workout?

    Lower A
    Squat
    Good mornings
    Lunge
    Nordic ham curls
    Calf raises

    Lower B
    Deadlift
    Lunge
    Bulgarian split squat
    Nordic ham carls
    Calf raises
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  5. #8045
    Registered User cubic25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tommy4life View Post
    Odd that rdl and squats dont bother you but rows do, especially pendlay...might want to check form. But if you have to, BOR can be swapped for any row and pendlay for any row where elbows arw out and pulling towards the chest.

    Would be better to sub leg press for lunge variatiin (walking, reverse, split squat)
    >
    Thanks for taking the time to reply.
    You were right about RDL and squats. They do bother me.
    I spoke too soon the other week. I tried doing squats the other day and I destroyed my lower back. It seems that any exercise that involves bending at the hip, with weight in front, is out for me. At least until my lower back is fixed and my core strength is up. Even with the correct technique, the risk of injury is too high for me.
    Split squats seem fine, as you seem to be more upright when doing them. Other than that, I'm going to have to sub RDL, pendleys and squats for other exercises.
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  6. #8046
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    How come calves only get 3 sets on lower days for a total of 6 weekly sets on the upper/lower program? Pushing and pulling gets about 12 weekly sets
    Weighted calisthenics>weights anyday. Relative strength>absolute strength

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  7. #8047
    Registered User dlent17's Avatar
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    Substitute exercise

    Can I sub front squats and just repeat with regular back squats?
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  8. #8048
    Rows Could've Saved Jack Camarija's Avatar
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    15 weeks of progress under bastardized Fierce Five: Novice Upper Lower High Frequency Program

    Thank you davisj3537 and everyone helping answer questions!


    Date
    Week 1
    January 21, 2020
    Week 16
    May 7, 2020

    Weight
    193 lbs 172 lbs

    Body Fat %
    ~ 25 % ~ 18.04 %

    Unflexed Front
    Spoiler!
    Spoiler!

    Unflexed Side
    Spoiler!
    Spoiler!

    Flexed Front
    Spoiler!
    Spoiler!

    Flexed Side
    Spoiler!
    Spoiler!

    *edit*
    Second set of eyes suggests I started at around 23% bodyfat and ended at 13% bodyfat
    Last edited by Camarija; 05-08-2020 at 11:05 AM.
    ► Fierce 5 Novice Upper Lower High Frequency Training Log
    ► https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=177960231&p=1606704581&viewfull=1#post1606704581
    ○ 220 lbs / 32% bf / Oct 11, 2019
    ○ 193 lbs / ~23% bf / Jan 21, 2020
    ◘ 171 lbs / ~13% bf / June 3, 2020
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  9. #8049
    Registered User chillz88's Avatar
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    Substitute for walking lunges

    I have been doing the fierce 5 dumbell program for 2 months. The gyms haven't been open in my part of the country. So got a pair of adjustable dumbells and on it. I slowed the progression less than half as prescribed(lesser weights) and on maintenance calories.

    My question is if I can substitute walking lunges for alternate front or back lunges? Also I cant do single leg dls(hurts my back). So I do them for DB rdls both legs for 30 reps. Just wanted to let you people know my rdls aren't very maxed out in the program as my other lifts.

    Thank you.
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  10. #8050
    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by chillz88 View Post
    My question is if I can substitute walking lunges for alternate front or back lunges?
    You'd lose some balance and coordination benefits, but sure. If you can do walking lunges you might as well do them though.

    Originally Posted by chillz88 View Post
    Also I cant do single leg dls(hurts my back). So I do them for DB rdls both legs for 30 reps. Just wanted to let you people know my rdls aren't very maxed out in the program as my other lifts.
    That's fine as long as you understand you're just maintaining if you're doing the same thing week to week. You could also try good mornings and see how they feel.
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  11. #8051
    Registered User chillz88's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    You'd lose some balance and coordination benefits, but sure. If you can do walking lunges you might as well do them though.



    That's fine as long as you understand you're just maintaining if you're doing the same thing week to week. You could also try good mornings and see how they feel.
    Thankyou. Doing walking lunges without gym in a small room with little space for 2 months during isolation gets boring and tiring really quick.

    Thinking of upping the weight just a bit more and doing front/ back lunges. Might strengthen my walking lunges too when I come back to it. Another option is split squats(without foot elevation? . What are your thoughts on that as a sub for walking lunges? Seems similar. Do these exercises hit similar muscles besides walking lunges needing more core and balance.
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  12. #8052
    Registered User gezelligee's Avatar
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    I am following Dumbbell Workout at home. I don't have a bench. Can I change Floor Press with Push-Ups? I don't feel abs involvement, mostly my front arm is working. I have done bench press, dumbbell press and their incline/decline versions before, so I know how I should feel after workout and I know how to keep a proper form.

    I searched the topic and cannot see about this, surprised why never asked tbh.
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  13. #8053
    Registered User chillz88's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gezelligee View Post
    I am following Dumbbell Workout at home. I don't have a bench. Can I change Floor Press with Push-Ups? I don't feel abs involvement, mostly my front arm is working. I have done bench press, dumbbell press and their incline/decline versions before, so I know how I should feel after workout and I know how to keep a proper form.

    I searched the topic and cannot see about this, surprised why never asked tbh.
    Same situation at home. Gyms not open yet. I do floor press too. More triceps involvement, but chest does work if you arch and push your chest up and locked while doing the movement.
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  14. #8054
    Registered User mike990's Avatar
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    Hi all.

    Im looking to sub front squat for equipment/form reasons for the novice full body reasons.

    Im a little confused, the novice fierce 5 thread says front squat must only be swapped for leg curls or paused back squats. This thread, in the substitutions section , says to swap front squats for "Hack Squats, Leg press or Step ups".

    Which advice should I follow? I've been swapping it for leg presses, but im not sure anymore.

    Friendly tip. Unless i'm just being daft, it looks like one of the threads needs updating so the subs are the same for the novice program for both threads @davisj3537
    Last edited by mike990; 07-30-2020 at 04:16 PM.
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  15. #8055
    Registered User Todarivah's Avatar
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    Question Fierce 5 review

    Hi,

    Someone did a review of the Fierce 5 novice program:

    h.t.t.p.s://w.w.w.youtube.com/watch?v=OATtf3kPtdI&t=1s

    Have you seen it ? and if so what are your thoughts on his program modifications ?
    Last edited by Todarivah; 07-31-2020 at 12:26 PM. Reason: Type
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  16. #8056
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    Returning to lifting after some time off and running the Novice program. Spent 5 years boxing and with that I've developed a number of postural issues (left hip and shoulder internal rotation). Working with a Chrio and a PT to help correct some of these things while running the program.

    My PT wants me to sub out Face Pulls for unilateral back movements. I find when I'm doing any back movement I don't feel much of a contraction on my left side (around romboids, upper traps). Right side is fine but left is lagging.

    What are your thoughts on this? The suggestion is to

    -Sub face pulls for bent over DB rows
    -Prior to pendalay rows do a couple of sets of light DB rows for pre activation

    PT suggested same for my squats. To get proper form on my squat I have to sit in sumo stance or have my ankles lifted (huge mobility issues and working on correcting).. PT suggested a couple of sets of light Leg Extension for quad activation before doing my squats.
    "Discipline...doing what needs to be done. Even when you don't want to"
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  17. #8057
    Registered User Calikid32190's Avatar
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    Just switched to the intermediate after finishing the novice version and I noticed I have more energy to do my 10 min ab workout. I always do my abs at the end of my workout and on fully body I would be so gassed when I did my abs but always got it done. Yesterday when I do them I felt I had so much more energy. The ab program I do is killer abs by Tony Horton and there’s a ton of planks along with 10 mins of pure ab work. I do my abs Monday-Friday regardless of program but it felt so good yesterday like it had before. It could be because Mondays are upper A. I’ll find out today if I have as much energy after lower A.

    I’m noticing that there’s only 1 compound lift each of the 4 days rather than when it was novice and it was 3 days with 2 compound lifts each day. Just from doing intermediate for one day I can see the benefits. Only having to do 1 compound lift with the other 5 exercises being iso gives you more energy which could’ve also contributed to my ab workout being easier.
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  18. #8058
    Registered User kalcard's Avatar
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    Cut on the beginner or intermediate routine

    Hi, I've been doing the novice routine to great success and I'm near the end of it. I've been bulking for a while now and I want to start a cut as soon as I finish the novice routine. Should I cut with novice or the intermediate routine?

    And after the cut do I try the novice routine again to bulk or is that no necessary?
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  19. #8059
    Registered User astrocoyote's Avatar
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    Hey guys, I've been running the novice version (for the 2nd time) ever since gyms re-opened where I live.

    It was never clear to me how to go about the progression in bicep curls. Unfortunately my current gym does not offer increments of 2.5lbs-increase in dumbbells. Also, last time I ran F5 I found I could not sustain such a rapid progression in biceps, as opposed to the other bigger lifts.
    Any ideas? I am just going with a slower progression for now.
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  20. #8060
    Registered User TAWS6's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by astrocoyote View Post
    Hey guys, I've been running the novice version (for the 2nd time) ever since gyms re-opened where I live.

    It was never clear to me how to go about the progression in bicep curls. Unfortunately my current gym does not offer increments of 2.5lbs-increase in dumbbells. Also, last time I ran F5 I found I could not sustain such a rapid progression in biceps, as opposed to the other bigger lifts.
    Any ideas? I am just going with a slower progression for now.
    I would just add 5 lbs per month for bicep curls. Don't sweat the small things.
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  21. #8061
    Registered User astrocoyote's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TAWS6 View Post
    I would just add 5 lbs per month for bicep curls. Don't sweat the small things.
    Thanks man, much appreciated!
    I agree that this feels like a reasonable target for my progression. I'll go with that.
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  22. #8062
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    Originally Posted by kalcard View Post
    Hi, I've been doing the novice routine to great success and I'm near the end of it. I've been bulking for a while now and I want to start a cut as soon as I finish the novice routine. Should I cut with novice or the intermediate routine?

    And after the cut do I try the novice routine again to bulk or is that no necessary?
    He recommends the novice for cutting males, just halve the progression. But you could do either. When bulking if you're unable to add weight to the bar on novice, switch to intermediate.
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  23. #8063
    ldar crew Kcrack's Avatar
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    Haven’t lifted in nearly 6 months due to covid, have slowly been building a garage gym and now that I have some plates, I wanna get back into it. I was doing the UL split (with deadlift substitute), just wondering if this looks fine so far. Only thing is, I need to substitute leg press for obvious reasons, what else could I do?

    Upper A
    Bench 3x5
    Incline Bench 3x8
    Lat Pulldowns 3x8 (any grip)
    Bent Over Rows 3x8
    Curls 3x10/Reverse Flies 3x12 Superset

    Lower A
    Squats 3x5
    Weighted Good Mornings 3x8
    Leg Press 3x10
    Leg Curls 3x10
    Ab work 3x15/Calf raises 3x12 Superset

    Upper B
    OHP 3x5
    Flies 3x10
    Chin Ups 3x8
    Pendlay Rows 3x8
    Face Pulls 3x12/Tricep pressdowns 3x10 Superset

    Lower B
    Deadlift 3x5
    Lunges 3x8
    Leg Extensions 3x10
    Leg Curls 3x10
    Ab work 3x15/Calf Raises 3x12 Superset
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  24. #8064
    Registered User TAWS6's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kcrack View Post
    Haven’t lifted in nearly 6 months due to covid, have slowly been building a garage gym and now that I have some plates, I wanna get back into it. I was doing the UL split (with deadlift substitute), just wondering if this looks fine so far. Only thing is, I need to substitute leg press for obvious reasons, what else could I do?

    Upper A
    Bench 3x5
    Incline Bench 3x8
    Lat Pulldowns 3x8 (any grip)
    Bent Over Rows 3x8
    Curls 3x10/Reverse Flies 3x12 Superset

    Lower A
    Squats 3x5
    Weighted Good Mornings 3x8
    Leg Press 3x10
    Leg Curls 3x10
    Ab work 3x15/Calf raises 3x12 Superset

    Upper B
    OHP 3x5
    Flies 3x10
    Chin Ups 3x8
    Pendlay Rows 3x8
    Face Pulls 3x12/Tricep pressdowns 3x10 Superset

    Lower B
    Deadlift 3x5
    Lunges 3x8
    Leg Extensions 3x10
    Leg Curls 3x10
    Ab work 3x15/Calf Raises 3x12 Superset
    It looks good. For leg press you could sub it for front squat. I prefer to do walking lunges instead but both will get it done.
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    I'm thinking about doing the intermediate routine. How much rest time do you advise?
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    Originally Posted by brunogouveia58 View Post
    I'm thinking about doing the intermediate routine. How much rest time do you advise?
    As much as you need.
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    Originally Posted by TAWS6 View Post
    As much as you need.
    Thanks by the answer. I have nowhere to back extensions. which is a good substitute?
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    Originally Posted by brunogouveia58 View Post
    Thanks by the answer. I have nowhere to back extensions. which is a good substitute?
    Good-mornings
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    Registered User centgas's Avatar
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    Just curious, for the upper/lower split routine why are the two upper exercises done one after the other and not seperated?

    So instead of doing bench and then straight to incline bench, going bench - lat pull down - incline bench - bent over rows

    Secondly, is there any benefit to bent over rows over seated rows?

    Thanks
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    Originally Posted by centgas View Post
    Just curious, for the upper/lower split routine why are the two upper exercises done one after the other and not seperated?

    So instead of doing bench and then straight to incline bench, going bench - lat pull down - incline bench - bent over rows

    Secondly, is there any benefit to bent over rows over seated rows?

    Thanks
    1. You don't have to go in order. I do a push then a pull.

    2. No just barbell/DB vs cables. After a while once you get really strong I think the cables make it a bit easier to get through the workout.
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