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  1. #8011
    Registered User vvvrrr's Avatar
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    Anyone has suggestions on how to move on from the beginner program (I've stalled on for almost 2 months now) to a program that is also 3x week?

    I searched this thread, but couldn't find anything. Would doing the fierce 5 intermediate 3x a week not be enough volume?

    Any suggestions of other intermediate programs thdt run 3x a week?
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  2. #8012
    Registered User WakingOp's Avatar
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    You could just switch to a slower method of progression? Halve the increases, or use a double progression. Or combine days on the intermediate program.

    The problem is intermediate=higher volume=longer sessions = splitting it so you aren't in the gym 3 hours= 6 days top hit each body part twice a week(on a ppl split).

    531 has a 3 day/ week model. But that extends the cycle from 7 weeks(including deload) to 9. There's also a 2 day/ week template.

    I don't see why you couldn't do the same thing with any other program, but you're gonna have proportionally slower progress
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  3. #8013
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    okay guys i think i figured out the lower swaps with what i have in my home gym - thoughts for the U/L:

    Lower A
    Squats 3x5
    Good Mornings 3x10
    Barbell Split Squat 3x10
    Lying Cable Leg Curl 3x10
    Ab work 3x15/Calf raises 3x12 Superset

    Lower B
    Front Squat 3x5
    Romanian Deadlift 3x8
    Stepups 3x10
    Lying Cable Leg Curl 3x10
    Ab work 3x15/Calf Raises 3x12 Superset
    Last edited by rycan; 10-17-2019 at 04:12 PM.
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  4. #8014
    Raver in Training VmissileX's Avatar
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    Has anyone excelized this workout for all levels?
    "Learn from Yesterday, Live for Today, Hope for Tomorrow"
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  5. #8015
    Registered User ChesticleGainz's Avatar
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    This is an amazing thread. Thanks OP, a lot of hard work went into this and will help many people.
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  6. #8016
    Registered User Emman98's Avatar
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    I'm hesitate between the novice full body or intermediate upper lower

    my lift are : Squat 115kg X 6, Bench db 42 kg X 6, Bb row (weak) 65kg X 7-8
    5''8 85kg 15-17%
    legs and rows are not strong
    Last edited by Emman98; 10-22-2019 at 09:32 AM.
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  7. #8017
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    Originally Posted by Emman98 View Post
    I'm hesitate between the novice full body or intermediate upper lower

    my lift are : Squat 115kg X 6, Bench db 42 kg X 6, Bb row (weak) 65kg X 7-8

    legs and rows are not strong
    Run the novice and see how your progress. I personally always start with novice after I have completed a cut even though I know I won't be able to linear progression for long. It allows you to get to your optimal muscle strength range quickier.
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  8. #8018
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    Ok, so I'm probably going to ask a tired question.

    I ran this program probably a year and a half ago. I saw nice strength gains and some moderate size increase (I'm really only interested in strength per se, i don't want to get big, would rather be lean). I really like this program for it's simplicity but wondered if I should try something else this time around. My main goal is fat loss. I want to lose roughly 40 lbs. I haven't worked out for the last 18 months due to a move, injury, and some other health issues. I have second kid on the way so I feel like I really need to get into shape now. I'm not in terrible shape and am fairly active doing projects around the house, walking and biking with my 4 year old, etc. I know there are no shortcuts and diet is key. That said, should I still do this program again? I followed it pretty regularly for around 6 months and didn't see much weight loss. I saw more weight maintenance and strength increase. I can't recall how healthy I was being at the time. Diet and too much drinking probably impacted those results. I just know the OP mentioned the ALL PROS routine sticky for weight loss over 30 lbs. I found that routine to be way more math and harder to maintain. If it's overly complex it reduces my motivation to stick to the program and get to the gym in the first place. Should I consider doing anything like HIIT to try to lose fat more quickly? I find I get winded pretty easily with somewhat vigorous activity or just playing with my 4 year old. Is it better to address this via rest day cardio instead of a HIIT workout program that's a combo of cardio/weight training?

    Thanks all for any advice and for reading. If the answer is simply, follow the program, cut your calories, and get enough protein then I'm fine with that. I just wanted to double check before kicking things off again.
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  9. #8019
    Registered User WakingOp's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Lovamelin View Post
    Ok, so I'm probably going to ask a tired question.

    I ran this program probably a year and a half ago. I saw nice strength gains and some moderate size increase (I'm really only interested in strength per se, i don't want to get big, would rather be lean). I really like this program for it's simplicity but wondered if I should try something else this time around. My main goal is fat loss. I want to lose roughly 40 lbs. I haven't worked out for the last 18 months due to a move, injury, and some other health issues. I have second kid on the way so I feel like I really need to get into shape now. I'm not in terrible shape and am fairly active doing projects around the house, walking and biking with my 4 year old, etc. I know there are no shortcuts and diet is key. That said, should I still do this program again? I followed it pretty regularly for around 6 months and didn't see much weight loss. I saw more weight maintenance and strength increase. I can't recall how healthy I was being at the time. Diet and too much drinking probably impacted those results. I just know the OP mentioned the ALL PROS routine sticky for weight loss over 30 lbs. I found that routine to be way more math and harder to maintain. If it's overly complex it reduces my motivation to stick to the program and get to the gym in the first place. Should I consider doing anything like HIIT to try to lose fat more quickly? I find I get winded pretty easily with somewhat vigorous activity or just playing with my 4 year old. Is it better to address this via rest day cardio instead of a HIIT workout program that's a combo of cardio/weight training?

    Thanks all for any advice and for reading. If the answer is simply, follow the program, cut your calories, and get enough protein then I'm fine with that. I just wanted to double check before kicking things off again.
    You haven't worked out in 18 months

    You were effectively utilizing a novice program when you were

    Assuming those are accurate, you are absolutely going to be a noob. Do the novice program to get the most rapid adaptation. More muscles translates to more calories burned. But like you said, the ruling factor is gonna be diet

    All pros routine is recommended for fat loss because it's a less aggressive progression, and you are going to be weaker while losing weight at a rapid rate. But, I don't understand how you can think it is too complicated- the routine was actually called SIMPLE beginners workout. You reduce the weight every day, and add a rep every week. It should be pretty motivating, since Monday is really gonna be the only hard day, vs getting harder every time you lift. It's not much math either. You only get 5 pound increments. So...150 pounds, 135,120...165 pounds, 150, 135.180 pounds- now you round up cause 18 is closer to 20. 160,140... you should be able to make the calculation on the fly between sets. It's not calculus and you're gonna do the same weights for a month
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  10. #8020
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    Originally Posted by Lovamelin View Post
    If the answer is simply, follow the program, cut your calories, and get enough protein then I'm fine with that.
    You got it, just do it consistently regardless of what's going on w/ the rest of your life. The program sounds like it worked fine for you last time, but you were eating on a surplus. If you try it on a deficit you should see results.

    If you don't recall how healthy you were being before then you obviously weren't tracking cals or watching what you eat.
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  11. #8021
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    Thanks guys. Just the one last thing, not so much for weight loss but for cardiovascular and respiratory health, should I stick do doing cardio just on off days and whatever I can get in on weekends? Any recommended regiment I should try with that as pertains to method or type of exercise? I don't really like running and it's hard on my knees from doing flooring installation as a job over the years. That said I'm not totally opposed to it. I find I like being on the elliptical the most and I like doing the 3-2-1 interval training, 50% for 3 min, 75% for 2 min, 100% for 1 min. And basically do that over and over for as long as I can. Usually, I can only go 12 minutes at first but can slowly work up to 20-30 minutes. I've been told that biking is not the best cardio since it's not a full-body exercise. I've never really done the stair steppers or walking at steep incline kind of stuff. I would like to aim for maximum calories burned in a roughly 30-minute time span. I know some people swear by those steady but high resistance options I mentioned like stair climbing and steep incline walking. Thanks again for the input!
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  12. #8022
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    Originally Posted by Lovamelin View Post
    should I stick do doing cardio just on off days and whatever I can get in on weekends? Any recommended regiment I should try with that as pertains to method or type of exercise?
    If you're going all out on cardio then off days or at a diff time of day than your weights routine would be good (e.g., morn cardio, late aft or eve weights).

    If it's light cardio you can just lump it in at the end of your workout. If you're doing 12-30 mins it's prob not a huge deal to do it at the end of your weights if that's most convenient for you. Don't do it before unless you feel it doesn't impact your energy/effort for weights.

    If you like elliptical then just do that. Biking is fine, esp if you do a spin class. You don't need a full body workout for cardio - any cardio combined w/ your weights if done consistently should be burning a sufficient amount of cals. You'll need to knock down the cals on the diet side consistently for any of this to matter for weight loss.
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  13. #8023
    Registered User Doyoueven2020's Avatar
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    Do you add 5-10lbs every other week to just the main lifts I.E. bench, OHP, Squats, or is it all exercises?
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  14. #8024
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    Originally Posted by Doyoueven2020 View Post
    Do you add 5-10lbs every other week to just the main lifts I.E. bench, OHP, Squats, or is it all exercises?
    I've been doing all exercises, plan to continue until stall then do as stated for stall.
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  15. #8025
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    You are a beast if you can keep adding 5 pounds to your curls for any lengthy period.


    I just realized I've been doing pull downs wrong. Thought those were 3x5, not 3x8. I've been doing a set of 5 chinups(weighted, the pulldown only has 20 pound increments after 150) after each ohp set. So 4x5. Should I change to 3x8? I want to say I should just add a rep next week to do 4x6. That way I don't have to muck with adjusting the weight appropriately for the change. It's still 24 reps, and a slightly higher intensity. But then again I'm sure Davis knows more than me so maybe not?
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  16. #8026
    Registered User Doyoueven2020's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Doyoueven2020 View Post
    Do you add 5-10lbs every other week to just the main lifts I.E. bench, OHP, Squats, or is it all exercises?
    Somebody? Anybody? lol
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  17. #8027
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    5 lbs/ week for upper body. 10 lbs / week for lower for main lifts. Reverse Flies go up 5 lbs every month.
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  18. #8028
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    Can i get some help with my form on front squats & RDL

    I heard that people with really long femurs like myself cant do front squats properly? I know that my wrist mobility isn't the best, but the squatting feels alright.

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  19. #8029
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    Originally Posted by Teryaki View Post
    Can i get some help with my form on front squats & RDL

    I heard that people with really long femurs like myself cant do front squats properly? I know that my wrist mobility isn't the best, but the squatting feels alright.

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    Looks fine, maybe work on ankle mobility prior to front squatting. With the RDL stop looking up. Look at the ground a couple feet ahead of you.
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  20. #8030
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    Hey guys,

    I have a Fierce 5 question.

    I hit my first failure on a couple of my lifts yesterday and suspect I'll fail again on my next workout.

    Here's what I failed on (either due to needing a spot or poor form)

    Squat - 105kg, failed on second set
    Bench - 97.5kg, failed on second set
    Pendlay row - 80kg, poor form

    If I fail on these again, I'll drop the weight and work back up as per the program instruction but my question is if I fail, should I move on to the intermediate upper/lower and if so, what sort of weight should I be starting on?

    I'v been doing the novice one for about 3 months. I know, it's not very long and looking back, I should have started a lot lighter than I did.

    Advice appreciated.
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  21. #8031
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    Originally Posted by dgoyena216 View Post
    Looks fine, maybe work on ankle mobility prior to front squatting. With the RDL stop looking up. Look at the ground a couple feet ahead of you.
    Thanks for the feedback, also I keep the same width on front squats as on regular low bar squats, which is slightly wider than shoulder width, is it better to stand abit closer on front squats?
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  22. #8032
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    Originally Posted by Teryaki View Post
    Thanks for the feedback, also I keep the same width on front squats as on regular low bar squats, which is slightly wider than shoulder width, is it better to stand abit closer on front squats?
    Width is mostly determined by your own anatomy. Femur length and neck of the femur length, hip structure, etc.

    Just got to play around with it and see which feels optimal for you.
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  23. #8033
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    Quick question:

    What should one do when Weighted Back Extensions become too heavy to work with plates? I'm doing 135 and it's just difficult to hold three bulking 45 pound plates. Would one move to doing these with a barbell? Or is it time to move to another exercise entirely?

    Thanks!
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  24. #8034
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    Originally Posted by MedicalAuthor View Post
    Quick question:

    What should one do when Weighted Back Extensions become too heavy to work with plates? I'm doing 135 and it's just difficult to hold three bulking 45 pound plates. Would one move to doing these with a barbell? Or is it time to move to another exercise entirely?

    Thanks!
    I actually prefer back ext with a barbell. Load it with small plates (depending how long your arms are) and use a wide grip, so the BB is hanging from your arms not on your back.
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  25. #8035
    Registered User InfernoUk's Avatar
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    Hey guys

    I’m starting the upper lower routine soon and had perhaps a stupid question, can I swap the upper lower B routines with the A routines so I go:

    OHP routine
    Front squat routine
    Rest
    Bench routine
    Squat routine

    Or Is there a reason it’s written as bench, squat, ohp, front squat

    Asking as I want to use Wed, thurs, sat, sun as my training days, but my gym is so busy it’ll be easier to do the bench and squat days on a weekend
    Last edited by InfernoUk; 12-03-2019 at 06:09 AM.
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  26. #8036
    Registered User Andrew578's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by InfernoUk View Post
    Hey guys

    I’m starting the upper lower routine soon and had perhaps a stupid question, can I swap the upper lower B routines with the A routines so I go:

    OHP routine
    Front squat routine
    Rest
    Bench routine
    Squat routine

    Or Is there a reason it’s written as bench, squat, ohp, front squat

    Asking as I want to use Wed, thurs, sat, sun as my training days, but my gym is so busy it’ll be easier to do the bench and squat days on a weekend
    Nah not really, you would be fine doing it your way. As long as you are hitting each muscle group twice a week you will be good
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