"Fierce 5" Comprehensive Program List

[LifterShifter]

"Pendlay Rows-Any horizontal pull. T bar is a good example. Your arms need to be directly out in front of you for it to be considered a horizontal pull. BORs don't count.
"
Does seated cable row. Would work well as a subtitue?

[MyEgoProblem]

"Pendlay Rows-Any horizontal pull. T bar is a good example. Your arms need to be directly out in front of you for it to be considered a horizontal pull. BORs don't count.
"
Does seated cable row. Would work well as a subtitue?

wider grip with straight bar, pulled upper and.. yup sure.

[thaiboxlj]

Im doing the fierce 5 upper/lower split. At the moment im learning about periodization, im just wondering if i got this right, that fierce 5 UL uses an linear double progression, with some form off wave loading, and also some undulating periodization

Guys?

[LifterShifter]

When you say upper where does the bar touches my body at? Lower chest?

[fluidZ]

When you say upper where does the bar touches my body at? Lower chest?

Generally sternum / solar plexus. Will vary slightly depending on proportion s

[MyEgoProblem]

When you say upper where does the bar touches my body at? Lower chest?

sorry! auto correct.

i meant to say "upper abs" ... but there is about a 4" range depending on your grip width.

myself i hit my xiphoid process all the time lol n it hurts 😂 so i try n hit my upper abs now.

EDIT.. HE'S BANNED..LOL

[Sickknt13]

Upper A
------------
Bench 3x3-5
Incline Bench 3x8-10
Lat Pulldowns 3x8-10
Bent Over Rows 3x6-8
Lateral Raises 3x10-12
Bayesian Curls 3x12-15 / Reverse Flies 3x12 Superset


Upper B
------------
OHP 3x3-5
Cable Crossover 3x10-12
Pullups 3x6-8
Pendlay Rows 3x8-10
One Arm Lateral Raises 3x15-20
Face Pulls 3x12-15 / Overhead Cable Extensions 3x12-15 Superset

Not sure if the volume is enough tho, but I think to run it and do very detailed journal.
I have changed some things in the upper workouts, is it good to do it that way?

[TheGymJim]

I have changed some things

Why?

[Sickknt13]

Why?

Well, I added some lateral raises because I want to bring up those lateral delts as they barely really get worked in the exercises above. I changed the bent over rows from 8 reps to 6-8 reps, ill be doing cable curls for 12-15reps and overhead extensions for 12-15 reps.
Not a big difference.

[TheGymJim]

Well, I added some lateral raises because I want to bring up those lateral delts as they barely really get worked in the exercises above.

False. As I told you in your other thread on the same subject.

I changed the bent over rows from 8 reps to 6-8 reps, ill be doing cable curls for 12-15reps and overhead extensions for 12-15 reps.

Why are you changing the rep ranges? What makes you believe that this is an intelligent thing to do?

[thaiboxlj]

Im doing the fierce 5 upper/lower split. At the moment im learning about periodization, im just wondering if i got this right, that fierce 5 UL uses an linear double progression, with some form off wave loading, and also some undulating periodization

Would still love some input on this

[ChrisWhite90]

Going for my Upper B tonight, think tonight may be the first night since starting the F5 upper lower split that I may fail on my pull ups. 15kg assistance for 3 sets of 9 reps. Last week for 3 sets of 8 was super tough.

[MyEgoProblem]

Would still love some input on this

it's just simple waved, linear periodisation with a 2 week macro cycle.

but im not sure that's gonna teach you anything in and of its self

[bob2589]

What's going on guys?

Making good progress on DL and should break past 140kg in a week or so and set a new PB. Struggling with Squat though -had to reset twice in the space of a week. Not sure if I was just having a bad workout or what, but I'm considering swapping out DL for FS and RDL to see if the carry over can improve my Back Squat.

Squat is my worst lift and DL my best so maybe I can redress the balance a little bit. Anyone got any advice for me? Unfortunately I'm not seeing the DL gains carry over into my Squat (long legs/long arms crew)!

[JemH14]

Is there a reason why the main lifts are 3x5 instead of 5x5? I.e. if I go from normaly lifting 5x5 to 3x5, should I be going heavier? Or can I stick with 5x5 on the main lifts?

[WolfRose7]

Is there a reason why the main lifts are 3x5 instead of 5x5? I.e. if I go from normaly lifting 5x5 to 3x5, should I be going heavier? Or can I stick with 5x5 on the main lifts?

3x5 should allow you to lift more weight and progress more reliably

[Barbecuebarbell]

Ran the Beginner Powerbuilding Program with great results. Weighing about 245lbs now and benching 300, pressing 200, deadlifting 475 and squatting 375. Would this be okay as the intermediate upper-lower split? I wanted to add the deadlift in there and sub the incline bench for another ohp.

Upper A
Bench 3x5
OHP 3x8
Lat Pulldowns 3x8
Bent Over Rows 3x8
Curls 3x10/Reverse Flies 3x12 Superset

Lower A
Squats 3x5
Weighted Back Extensions 3x8
Leg Press 3x10
Leg Curls 3x10
Ab work 3x15/Calf raises 3x12 Superset

Upper B
OHP 3x5
Flies 3x10
Chinups 3x8
Kroc Rows 3x8
Face Pulls 3x12/Tricep pressdowns 3x10 Superset

Lower B
Deadlift 1x5
Lunges 3x8
Leg Curls 3x10
Ab work 3x15/Calf Raises 3x12 Superset

[Ben0090]

Ran the Beginner Powerbuilding Program with great results. Weighing about 245lbs now and benching 300, pressing 200, deadlifting 475 and squatting 375. Would this be okay as the intermediate upper-lower split? I wanted to add the deadlift in there and sub the incline bench for another ohp.

Upper A
Bench 3x5
OHP 3x8
Lat Pulldowns 3x8
Bent Over Rows 3x8
Curls 3x10/Reverse Flies 3x12 Superset

Lower A
Squats 3x5
Weighted Back Extensions 3x8
Leg Press 3x10
Leg Curls 3x10
Ab work 3x15/Calf raises 3x12 Superset

Upper B
OHP 3x5
Flies 3x10
Chinups 3x8
Kroc Rows 3x8
Face Pulls 3x12/Tricep pressdowns 3x10 Superset

Lower B
Deadlift 1x5
Lunges 3x8
Leg Curls 3x10
Ab work 3x15/Calf Raises 3x12 Superset

Looks good to me man

[TheGymJim]

Davis, your program is OK I guess, but when can we expect the Fluidz edit?

[fluidZ]

Davis, your program is OK I guess, but when can we expect the Fluidz edit?

Curls every day!


But srs, I'm working on an F5 app with Davis permission, and it will have updated FAQ and sub list etc (with approval) so that is all I meant in that other thread, haha. That and there is info in the comprehensive FAQ that's not in the novice thread, etc, so combining would maybe help reduce the Qs we get everyday... (LOL yeah right)

[Ben0090]

Curls every day!


But srs, I'm working on an F5 app with Davis permission, and it will have updated FAQ and sub list etc (with approval) so that is all I meant in that other thread, haha. That and there is info in the comprehensive FAQ that's not in the novice thread, etc, so combining would maybe help reduce the Qs we get everyday... (LOL yeah right)

The questions will happen regardless, because if you edit them or not people will still rarely read the first few posts properly

[daawhitty]

Curls every day!


But srs, I'm working on an F5 app with Davis permission, and it will have updated FAQ and sub list etc (with approval) so that is all I meant in that other thread, haha. That and there is info in the comprehensive FAQ that's not in the novice thread, etc, so combining would maybe help reduce the Qs we get everyday... (LOL yeah right)

FWIW All the info people need is in this thread literally. And if a newbie cba to read back a few pages there really is no hope for them to start a long journey into weight training.

[fluidZ]

agreed everyone. But I at least try to be somewhat useful around here, despite still being early on my journey with everything.

If an app and a compiling some questions is remotely useful to anyone then at least I will have contributed in some small way. But if not needed / wanted in the end then it's no skin off my back, since I'm doing it on my free time / personal projects anyway. I'm a professional tutor and program for fun, so making stuff like this is fun anyway...

I've been PMing with Davis already so appreciate the concern everyone just wanted to clarify that I was *not* suggesting any edits to the program, xD

=}

[davisj3537]

There really is no use whatsoever in adding more FAQ. Most questions are from the FAQ and if they are or aren't I still get PM's with questions. That and lots of other threads started. I used to have many more FAQ, but deleted them because it was too long of a read. Truth be told it would probably be better with only 5 or 6, but I refuse to be so concise.

Go full steam ahead on the app if you like. As I've discussed with everyone who has mentioned it that it must be 100% free. Typically that makes most people shy away because the cost of running a free app ruins everything. It's a copyrighted program. It cannot be reproduced without my permission and the last thing I want to do is have to involve my attorney to setup a royalty deal to handle $100 a month in app income. It's not worth my time.

The problem with adding more subs and changes is that they are less efficient. Could you sub leg press for squats? Sure, but only if you have to...it's an inferior exercise. Beginners need to learn the core most bang for your buck lifts. I used it once for a guy that has a fused ankle with no mobility, but 99% of other people need to do squats. Take pendlays for example; everyone hates them, but they force you to learn to hinge the hips which is crucial for RDL and low bar squats. That is just two examples, but the concept applies to them all. Every sub limits the effectiveness of the program.


I've debated closing this thread as well. I detest the horde of questions. With a dedicated thread people tend to ask first instead of reading. If they have to start a thread they are a little more likely to have spent a little time looking first. The amount of questions and general BS has dropped astronomically since I closed the novice thread. Best thing I ever did...

I sure appreciate all you guys do and try to spread on you guys frequently. Not frequent enough really

[fluidZ]

Go full steam ahead on the app if you like.

I've been working on it... I'm mainly an iOS coder, but I know people would want it on android too, since most people used android. I've been wanting to learn a "multiplatform" system of development tools for a while, so progress is coming along slowly as I've to learn a new language and everything involved with getting that working.

As I've discussed with everyone who has mentioned it that it must be 100% free. Typically that makes most people shy away because the cost of running a free app ruins everything.

As I mentioned before in PM, virtually ever coder I know is already paying the Developer License fees to Apple and Google (about $125 a year combined)... there is *no* cost to release an app or keep it published, so long as you have your yearly license active.

I did have to cancel my license, because I was mostly a hobbyist and never made anything cool enough to actual release or monetize.... however, the code will be copyrighted by you... Placing a header at the top of each file I can specify who the code belongs to you. It will be *your* app, similar to ghostwriter.





I would be happy to donate $125 in the future to keep the app going (if I actually get it finished and polished and you like it), but right now as I mentioned in other threads, my work is limited due to me having to provide family medical care, and I'm on food stamps + selling blood to keep above water right now.

However, it's your code, so if you have any friends that are devs, or want to publish the app yourself, it's completely up to you. (All you need is a mac or borrow a mac from a friend to publish the app yourself, in your name and everything, for iOS...)

Hopefully by the time I finish it I will have active developer license going again anyway.

(again this all assuming I can manage to learn the new language and get something decent together... I could just do an iOS version though, and someone else could take the reigns for an android port).

[MyEgoProblem]

tbh..
id remove the damn subs and tell people to nut up and just DDFP as written.

but most bros are little bitches (injured bros exempt ofc) and want it easy and just love to
"modifty the program for my needs" when their only need is to get strong and not be a wrsk little bitch.

but im pretty sure we talked about this ad nauseam 😂 .. but i agree, shutting the novice thread was a great plan! Deffinately made my life easier too. Obviously i dont post as much now but when this reaches the post limit the better lol

There really is no use whatsoever in adding more FAQ. Most questions are from the FAQ and if they are or aren't I still get PM's with questions. That and lots of other threads started. I used to have many more FAQ, but deleted them because it was too long of a read. Truth be told it would probably be better with only 5 or 6, but I refuse to be so concise.

The problem with adding more subs and changes is that they are less efficient. Could you sub leg press for squats? Sure, but only if you have to...it's an inferior exercise. Beginners need to learn the core most bang for your buck lifts. I used it once for a guy that has a fused ankle with no mobility, but 99% of other people need to do squats. Take pendlays for example; everyone hates them, but they force you to learn to hinge the hips which is crucial for RDL and low bar squats. That is just two examples, but the concept applies to them all. Every sub limits the effectiveness of the program.


I've debated closing this thread as well. I detest the horde of questions. With a dedicated thread people tend to ask first instead of reading. If they have to start a thread they are a little more likely to have spent a little time looking first. The amount of questions and general BS has dropped astronomically since I closed the novice thread. Best thing I ever did...

I sure appreciate all you guys do and try to spread on you guys frequently. Not frequent enough really

[Pomegranate23]

I'd like to just chime in here and say that for every guy that asks a question that's in the FAQ, there's probably at least one guy who has read the FAQ properly and had his questions answered. Thought that might be a comforting thought for some of you here lol.

[fluidZ]

So this comes on the heels of Jim and Wolf getting on me today for how I always bring up the deadlift variant, and how I shouldn't mention the sub list...

as a disclaimer, I'm certainly aware of the LARGGGEEEEEEE skill knowledge and experience gap of me and everyone else around here.... and certainly dont feel that I'm special or indispensable in any way... with that said, I think my thoughts and experiences have value, however little it may be.... somewhat similar to how big corps will bring in fresh, inexperienced blood, for new ideas / other perspectives.. however unqualified they may be.





So to give my 13k advice compared to the 1.5million rep advice is clear for all to see... But the sub list was a huge deal for me. In fact, there was 0% chance I would have run Fierce 5 if not for that sub list

In a new world where it seems everyone wanted to strangulate you with "just do the damn program" and "you don't know what you need" etc, however true that may be, it was REFRESHING to be given some iota of freedom in selection of the starting program. "I don't care what abs / curls you do" is another great example.

Deadlifts were incredibly important to me... there was no way I would have done Fierce 5 without them.. I would have continued to do Vikings which I was trying out for a few days before deciding on a program.





So without that sublist, you would have one less follower, and I would probably be singing the praises of Viking or something else.... and if Vikings didn't have deadlift, then I probably would have ended up on SS, or some nonsense PPLx2 that I was set on before everyone convinced me that 3x FB was the way to go.

Now I have my own reasons for recommending the DL variant, and not going to get into that here (went into great length here: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=175706211). The TL;DR of that thread though is that if I had just done RDL or whatever, I may have lost interest in barbell training all-together, and gone back to machine work.

But the point of this post is to give my noob opinion on the sub list, and that having a less-than-perfect Fierce 5 option is better than a nothing-at-all Fierce 5.... and that having some modicum of freedom will attract more young men and women to the program than otherwise.... I'm at least one person's worth of proof of that.

[davisj3537]

As I mentioned before in PM, virtually ever coder I know is already paying the Developer License fees to Apple and Google (about $125 a year combined)... there is *no* cost to release an app or keep it published, so long as you have your yearly license active.

I must have replaced this conversation with beer in my brain. I certainly wouldn't want anyone to pay 125 for the app to be published...it's not worth it IMO. Hell if anyone did that it should be me, but I don't want the damn headache. If you were already paying the 125 for other reasons then that's another story. I'd say if get your license back for other reasons go for it, but I sure wouldn't renew it for this.

there was 0% chance I would have run Fierce 5 if not for that sub list

That's what is is there for mate Everything in moderation. That's the secret to life.

[Emakihar]

Hey everyone~ programs is growing great for my noobie str.

I began the program Nov. 20 - Feb. 13
Bench 125-> 150
OHP -> 90-105
Squat 185->225 beltless - Resetted sometime during January - Was doing bad butt wink, hurt my back, its corrected now.
Front Squat 155->185 beltless
RDL - 185->225

Definitely progression which is great. I'm having a lot of trouble with bench/OHP though, been watching videos etc. But i feel like every time i hit the 3x6 sets i have resetted every time? has this been happening to anyone else? great program none the less, will be doing for a long time.

Hey everyone just comming back showing the increase in numbers and for anyone thinking of alternating the program you shouldnt have too

Began the program Nov. 20, 2017 - Feb. 13, 2018. --> is May 2, 2018
Current Weight 163 morning.
Bench 150 --> 170 x 3x6
OHP -> 105 --> 115 3x6 - Have reseted a couple times
Squat 225-> 265 3x5 With belt now
Front Squat 185 --> 215 3x5 with Belt I use a clean grip
RDL - 185-->225 - Has stayed in the same ball park, have been going lower for more stretch.
Pendlay row 175x3x5
Pull ups - Began in the ball park 3x6,7,8 Now at 3x13,
Chin ups - Began at 3x10 Now at 3x15

anyone whos been wanting to change the program up, you dont have too! Your numbers will go up