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  1. #4471
    Registered User Naeya1mj's Avatar
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    Hey Davis. Starting your Upper Lower Intermediate routine today. I ran through a practice run last week and I liked it. I have been fairly consistent in the gym for the last 4-5 years with a bro split and looking forward to trying something new. My max ranges are Bench 175 lbs, OHP 85lbs, Squat 215 lbs, Dead lift 245 lbs, and bent over rows 175 lbs. I am going to start at 80%-85% of these numbers to start.

    My main goal is to better proportion my body (mainly leg and shoulder size) , increase strength and to drop 8-10 lbs of midsection weight over the course of the next 2-3 months. My current weight is 192 lbs at 5'11". So i will be going on a slight calorie deficiency with the idea of losing 1lb a week of body fat.

    Do you see these goals as being realistic on this program in terms of cutting? I was thinking of adding HIIT cardio 2-3 days a week, one being on rest day mid week.

    Any input would be greatly appreciated.
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  2. #4472
    I need about tree fiddy davisj3537's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Naeya1mj View Post
    Hey Davis. Starting your Upper Lower Intermediate routine today. I ran through a practice run last week and I liked it. I have been fairly consistent in the gym for the last 4-5 years with a bro split and looking forward to trying something new. My max ranges are Bench 175 lbs, OHP 85lbs, Squat 215 lbs, Dead lift 245 lbs, and bent over rows 175 lbs. I am going to start at 80%-85% of these numbers to start.

    My main goal is to better proportion my body (mainly leg and shoulder size) , increase strength and to drop 8-10 lbs of midsection weight over the course of the next 2-3 months. My current weight is 192 lbs at 5'11". So i will be going on a slight calorie deficiency with the idea of losing 1lb a week of body fat.

    Do you see these goals as being realistic on this program in terms of cutting? I was thinking of adding HIIT cardio 2-3 days a week, one being on rest day mid week.

    Any input would be greatly appreciated.
    The rate of weight loss seems very reasonable, but I wouldn't count on increasing leg or shoulder size while losing weight. You may increase strength a little, but don't count on a lot of that either. Building muscle and strength happens the fastest when you're gaining weight, not losing it.

    After you've lost the weight then stay on the program for another 3 months or so and see how the bulking goes for you.
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  3. #4473
    Registered User Naeya1mj's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reply man. I'm definitely excited to try this routine on a bulk after I drop the weight. I wish I would have found this earlier.

    With the routine on a cut, what should I be expecting in weight increase per exercise. I know typically it would increase by 5 lbs for upper or 10 lbs for lower. I have added super sets of exercises but making sure to do the bigger compound in the beginning.
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  4. #4474
    Registered User Dani163's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by davisj3537 View Post
    I benched a national record at my last meet and at the time I was doing 6 chest exercises a week. The UL PPL has you doing 5 chest exercises a week. Quality is a sh*tload more important than quantity brother.

    If you want to do a bunch of fluffy BS per muscle group and spend 2+ hours in the gym then this program isn't for you mate. This is for people who are willing to put 100% into 6 lifts a day and forget all the pump and isolation BS.
    You are right I don't want to spend too much time in the gym when I'm there, but will this novice workout routine give me size on my muscles?

    I have some other questions as well, I started with the novice workout routine today and I assumed I was a novice according to the exrx strength chart. Will 3 workouts a week be enough? Is it possible to add a separate day during the weekend (sat/sun) to train only abs, traps, arms? Since it doesnt get so much focus on this workout routine, e.g shrugs/hammer curls/close grip bench?

    Also, if I were to do workout B on Wednesday but I get sick, and next day I'm healthy, do I train on Thursday/sunday/tuesday? How do you compensate a missed workout day?

    Lastly I would also like to point out that crossed arms front squat is hurting my shoulder pretty badly, today I tried to do the crossed arms front squat with 60kgs but my delts didn't like that exercise. So I switched it out to the Barbell high bar squat exercise, and I continued with the RDL as usual. Is this good? And will I be able to recover until Wednesday? Where ill be doing 3x5 squats.

    Thanks
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  5. #4475
    Tally ho lads Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dani163 View Post
    You are right I don't want to spend too much time in the gym when I'm there, but will this novice workout routine give me size on my muscles?

    I have some other questions as well, I started with the novice workout routine today and I assumed I was a novice according to the exrx strength chart. Will 3 workouts a week be enough? Is it possible to add a separate day during the weekend (sat/sun) to train only abs, traps, arms? Since it doesnt get so much focus on this workout routine, e.g shrugs/hammer curls/close grip bench?

    Also, if I were to do workout B on Wednesday but I get sick, and next day I'm healthy, do I train on Thursday/sunday/tuesday? How do you compensate a missed workout day?

    Lastly I would also like to point out that crossed arms front squat is hurting my shoulder pretty badly, today I tried to do the crossed arms front squat with 60kgs but my delts didn't like that exercise. So I switched it out to the Barbell high bar squat exercise, and I continued with the RDL as usual. Is this good? And will I be able to recover until Wednesday? Where ill be doing 3x5 squats.

    Thanks
    Follow the routine as it is.

    3 full body days is usually optimal for a novice.

    Why not a clean grip front squat, the way the lift is really intended?
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    Disclaimer: The above post is my personal opinion and does not represent the official position of any company or entity. It does not constitute medical advice.
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  6. #4476
    I need about tree fiddy davisj3537's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Naeya1mj View Post
    Thanks for the reply man. I'm definitely excited to try this routine on a bulk after I drop the weight. I wish I would have found this earlier.

    With the routine on a cut, what should I be expecting in weight increase per exercise. I know typically it would increase by 5 lbs for upper or 10 lbs for lower. I have added super sets of exercises but making sure to do the bigger compound in the beginning.
    Just follow the program and see what happens. Reduce weight when failing.
    Originally Posted by Dani163 View Post
    You are right I don't want to spend too much time in the gym when I'm there, but will this novice workout routine give me size on my muscles?

    I have some other questions as well, I started with the novice workout routine today and I assumed I was a novice according to the exrx strength chart. Will 3 workouts a week be enough? Is it possible to add a separate day during the weekend (sat/sun) to train only abs, traps, arms? Since it doesnt get so much focus on this workout routine, e.g shrugs/hammer curls/close grip bench?

    Also, if I were to do workout B on Wednesday but I get sick, and next day I'm healthy, do I train on Thursday/sunday/tuesday? How do you compensate a missed workout day?

    Lastly I would also like to point out that crossed arms front squat is hurting my shoulder pretty badly, today I tried to do the crossed arms front squat with 60kgs but my delts didn't like that exercise. So I switched it out to the Barbell high bar squat exercise, and I continued with the RDL as usual. Is this good? And will I be able to recover until Wednesday? Where ill be doing 3x5 squats.

    Thanks
    1. Read this thread. The whole thing. Just tons of great advice. https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1487226721

    2. Read the FAQ please. All your questions are answered there in some form or fashion.

    3. Don't add anything. If you want to add a fourth day then go ahead and make friends with a shoulder surgeon now and please don't tell anyone that you're doing Fierce 5 because you're not. Literally any changes you make are reducing the effectiveness of the program. Let that sink in.

    4. Bro if if wasn't good then it wouldn't be a sticky on the largest bodybuilding forum in the world.
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  7. #4477
    Registered User MattJ45's Avatar
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    Hi, quick question ref the weight. I'm just starting the novice routine, should I pick a weight that relatively comfortably allows me to hit the require reps, or should I be failing most sets?

    For e.g., squats are set at 3 sets x 5 reps. If I pick a weight that will allow me to hit 5 reps in all 3 sets, then realistically in set 1, at that weight I could probably do a couple more than 5 reps if I wanted to. Or should I pick a weight that in set 1 is tough to get to 5, so probably by set 3 I fail?

    I know someone will probably say I'm overthinking it, just lift! But I'm interested what others think/do.
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  8. #4478
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    Pick a weight you think you can get all 3 sets... then use 85% of that. The weight gets plenty heavy plenty quick. You should not be struggling on this for about 3-4 weeks, and you most certainly should not be failing sets. That time you should be using to get form and movement patterns locked in.
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  9. #4479
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    I have a question about which I have serious doubts, since it will either sound super chaotic and stupid; or a practical way for some changes about my body that I have been observing from the day of Fierce 5 Novice(~1 years ago) till today.

    Ok, so there are millions of threads about hypertrophy vs strength regime. And davis emphasized that this program is based on strength since we all know thanks to him that for getting bigger, we need to be stronger. Another input is that, we need to gain weight for numbers to be kept increasing hence gains coming along.

    And the final input is that, during bulking phase; what you eat(meanwhile lifting) will result how you seem.


    This was an amateur, dummy level summary from my perspective, for the progress we dream about our bodies.

    Now my question is,

    If I started to observe that, whenever I bulk I start having love handles that can be observed easily around %x bf; and if any diet must be adjusted to our daily lives since we all have jobs and things to do; may alternating between two workout routines be beneficial to prevent this "love-handle" issue instead of trying to solve it with nutrition? It is written million times that not gaining fat is almost impossible during bulking phase, however having THIS spesific regional fats around belly seems and sounds weird to me since it is like every single fat molecule is stored at my love-handles.


    I mean another trick for showing my love handles smaller can be increasing my shoulder size or lats If I am not wrong; so if I keep observing the same thing during every single gaining weight phase after a certain bf or bw number and cannot be more military disciplined about my diet because of daily life conditions; is this a relevant alternative to have transitions between two workout routines? To say, 1 to 2 months Fierce Upper/Lower, next month a pure hypertrophy program that main focus is shoulders and/or lats and then again back to Fierce 5 Uppler/Lower -like a hybrid-, (The timing is just an example, please ignore the "month")

    Because what we know is, this Fierce 5 Upper/Lower can be applied for the rest of our lives as it is written.And it is super sensitive in terms of muscular imbalances. Hence, quite probably; this idea would lead muscular imbalances too.

    However, a straight logic including my own bit of ignorance indicates that; if I am not able to manage to have a more disiplined diet(which at least for now seems impossible), I will be having the same observations and issues, as a deadlock. (More detailed example: I have to eat whatever there is during lunch time at the company, or being at home around 23:30 and just eating whatever I find)Neverending loop for bulking/cutting without a single improvement, or tiny improvements that I presume would not be a solution for the love handles during gaining weight.

    So probably, this will sound like a "lazy excuse" for not having a solid diet and which is at the end of the chart, is my very own fault.

    But I guess after jumping around different threads and topics on the forums, I guess I am kinda confused and this may be absolutely crap. However, curiosity...

    So just wanted to ask this.

    Thank you.

    P.S: (At the end of the road, Klokov's body style is the main target)
    Last edited by Mertcann85; 03-21-2017 at 11:35 AM. Reason: Grammar
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  10. #4480
    Registered User MattJ45's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TnTNZ View Post
    Pick a weight you think you can get all 3 sets... then use 85% of that. The weight gets plenty heavy plenty quick. You should not be struggling on this for about 3-4 weeks, and you most certainly should not be failing sets. That time you should be using to get form and movement patterns locked in.
    OK thank you. Ref the movement patterns etc, I think (or at least I'm hoping!) I'm fairly solid on those - I've been doing these exercises for the past year or so, just not been structured enough in workouts/progressing with the weight which is what had led me to Fierce 5
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  11. #4481
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    Originally Posted by Mertcann85 View Post
    So probably, this will sound like a "lazy excuse" for not having a solid diet and which is at the end of the chart, is my very own fault.

    But I guess after jumping around different threads and topics on the forums, I guess I am kinda confused and this may be absolutely crap. However, curiosity...
    You're not confused. You know the answer. You're just looking for an easy fix. There isn't one. If you want to lose belly fat, you need to be tighter on your diet. It's a simple answer. It's just not an easy one. You can throw some steady state cardio in to assist, but it's easier to not put the calories in, rather than burn them off.

    Originally Posted by MattJ45 View Post
    OK thank you. Ref the movement patterns etc, I think (or at least I'm hoping!) I'm fairly solid on those - I've been doing these exercises for the past year or so, just not been structured enough in workouts/progressing with the weight which is what had led me to Fierce 5
    Cool, well still stick to that start point. Follow the progression scheme, and use the reset protocol when needed. Everything will work.
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  12. #4482
    Registered User Mertcann85's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TnTNZ View Post
    You're not confused. You know the answer. You're just looking for an easy fix. There isn't one. If you want to lose belly fat, you need to be tighter on your diet. It's a simple answer. It's just not an easy one. You can throw some steady state cardio in to assist, but it's easier to not put the calories in, rather than burn them off.


    Cool, well still stick to that start point. Follow the progression scheme, and use the reset protocol when needed. Everything will work.
    Thanks for underlying what I already underlied. With all due respect, have you ever tried to run two different programs in a row like a cycle with a specific timing? If not what is the exact reason?

    Because what I asked is "....IF this can be, a back yard solution since diet cannot be tighter?" So your EASY fix, may be my DIFFICULT alternative, in the end the answer can be a sharp&rough "NO" (which will probably be, as I mentioned) but with an expectation of a reason. Not a text combined full of information gathered through Fierce 5 Routine pages of the thread itself.

    Thanks for your input, but I expect a yes/no for modifiying an alternative hypertrophy program meanwhile with Fierce 5 Upper/Lower, with a reason based on programming dynamics since maybe that missing part of disciplinary about nutrition can be fulfilled by exercises/routine/intensity/volume focusing or whatever we need to name it on shoulder or lats, not in terms of nutrition.

    I just want to learn the reason for that yes or no, if it is possible please.
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  13. #4483
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    hi, thanks for the great routine man.I am doing your int U/L.I have some questions.I have read all the info in the first page you said weighted back extensions,good mornings etc. are good subs for rdl but is the rdl a good sub for back extensions because I don't likem them it give my lower back pain.And I am doing sean nale's one arm row instead of bow it is a bit different than kroc row is it okay?.Lastly, I saw lots of exercise videos about reverse flies and everyone is different :/ can you give me an example video with dumbells.Thank you so much
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    Originally Posted by Mertcann85 View Post
    Thanks for underlying what I already underlied. With all due respect, have you ever tried to run two different programs in a row like a cycle with a specific timing? If not what is the exact reason?
    I haven't tried running two programs at specific timings because of the following

    To lose 'belly fat' you are looking to lose body fat, you cannot target the area that your body burns fat, it will do what it does, (and most guys tend to have the 'love handle' problem, myself included). The only way to target fat loss at a specific location on your body is surgically. So doing specific exercises to 'burn fat' is demonstrably pointless, there is plenty of evidence for this.

    So in to get rid of body fat you need to burn more energy than you consume in order to start using up your reserves. There are two ways to do that. Burn more energy, (ie. do more exercise), or put less energy in, (ie. eat less).

    Now given that it's really *really* easy to ingest calories, (I can and do easily eat 800 cals inside of 10 minutes at breakfast), and it's really really hard to burn them off, (a good weight session of an hour will typically burn off ~500 calories for me). Given the choice, I would choose to put less energy in, than try and burn more off. Why? because you mentioned 'lazy option', eating less is the lazy option because I have to actually *do* less to put myself in a caloric deficit and lose fat.

    If I *was* going to cycle two programs it would be a weight program, in this case fierce 5, and a cardio program, (ie doing cardio on the days I wasn't lifting)... not another weight program.

    Edit: Reading back over your post, basically it boils down to this. You need to give your diet as much effort, if not more, as you do for your lifting. You have to take control, it'll take planning, and it won't be easy, but man... neither is putting 100+kg on your back squatting down and standing back up and I assume your either doing that, or trying to. Ditch the excuses, and take control. You have to eat whatever is at work? Then take stuff to work. You get home at 23:30 and have to eat what ever is there? make sure whatever is there is right for you.
    Last edited by TnTNZ; 03-21-2017 at 06:41 AM.
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    Question Newbie

    Need help cuz im newbie any suggsrion about my daily routine

    First
    Breakfast oatmeal and bacon and i take 1scoop whey protein ,10grams bcaa 5000 powder and 2 tablets amino acids 2222 and 1 cup of coffe 30mins rest and hit the gym and finish gym i relax again in 30mins and i take 1 scoop whey protein , 5 grams creatine and 2 tablets amino acids 2222

    Last one going to bed i take 1scoop whey protein and 5grams glutamine

    Any suggstion anyone? Im new sorry
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  16. #4486
    I need about tree fiddy davisj3537's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MattJ45 View Post
    Hi, quick question ref the weight. I'm just starting the novice routine, should I pick a weight that relatively comfortably allows me to hit the require reps, or should I be failing most sets?
    Just wanted to add to what TNT said. If you're failing most sets then you'd have to reduce weight according to the reset protocol on the first page. Your entire questions tells me you either didn't read the first page or didn't plan on using the program correctly. Either mistake will lead to a lack of results.

    Not trying to criticize you, just trying to point you in the right direction brother.
    Originally Posted by Mertcann85 View Post
    Thanks for underlying what I already underlied. With all due respect, have you ever tried to run two different programs in a row like a cycle with a specific timing? If not what is the exact reason?

    Because what I asked is "....IF this can be, a back yard solution since diet cannot be tighter?" So your EASY fix, may be my DIFFICULT alternative, in the end the answer can be a sharp&rough "NO" (which will probably be, as I mentioned) but with an expectation of a reason. Not a text combined full of information gathered through Fierce 5 Routine pages of the thread itself.

    Thanks for your input, but I expect a yes/no for modifiying an alternative hypertrophy program meanwhile with Fierce 5 Upper/Lower, with a reason based on programming dynamics since maybe that missing part of disciplinary about nutrition can be fulfilled by exercises/routine/intensity/volume focusing or whatever we need to name it on shoulder or lats, not in terms of nutrition.

    I just want to learn the reason for that yes or no, if it is possible please.
    You posted a lot of info and I'll try to address it all. First I want to say that if your diet isn't controlled then it's going to be nearly impossible to get handle on your bodyfat % and change your love handle situation. You seem to understand this, but for others reading, it had to be said again. If your diet is not controlled little to no progress will be made in terms of body composition. Getting within a few hundred calories a day is controlled by my standards. Over time you should still be seeing a trend of either gaining weight or losing it depending on your goal at the time. TNT already wrote a good post about this so I'm not going into any more detail. Again, you seem to realize this, but for others, it had to be mentioned.

    With that out of the way...So your idea is that if you spent a handful of months out of the year focusing on bringing up certain bodyparts then they would help hide fat on your love handles. This is right and wrong and I'll try to explain it as concisely as I can.

    The first thing that jumps out at me is balance. It isn't that Fierce 5 is sensitive to balanced development; it's our bodies and my interpretation of them. So like you mentioned hopping around between programs specifically designed to pour a bunch of work into certain body parts would lead to imbalances. You simply can't put a bunch of work into say shoulders and lats without fukking up your body. This takes a while to show itself in terms of pain, but it's going to happen eventually. Once they are fukked up there isn't going back. I've had two shoulder surgeries and it is absolute trash at this point. This approach would help hide some problems areas, but obviously it isn't reducing fat. It's also going to take a VERY long time to actually bring those areas up to a point that they help hide anything. Every cycle you ran to increase the size of those muscle is going to further fukk up your body and get you closer to making buddies with a shoulder surgeon.

    Another downside is shortening the progression cycle. Let's use 5/3/1 for an example because it's easy to understand. You are supposed to start using 90% of your 1RM and slowly month by month add weight to it. This cycle doesn't get hard for several months. For the first 2-3 months you're laying the ground work to make good strides in months 4+. If you switched after 3 months then you'd have just walked away from the best gains the program would have given you. All good programs work this way on different levels, but in every scenario you're not making your best gains in the first few months. That's why programs that start hard, heavy and have "12 week program" are commonly criticized. There is no peaking. Without peaking you're going to make worse progress. That's why beginners who hop around on different programs every 4 weeks make terrible progress.
    Originally Posted by liftertr View Post
    hi, thanks for the great routine man.I am doing your int U/L.I have some questions.I have read all the info in the first page you said weighted back extensions,good mornings etc. are good subs for rdl but is the rdl a good sub for back extensions because I don't likem them it give my lower back pain.And I am doing sean nale's one arm row instead of bow it is a bit different than kroc row is it okay?.Lastly, I saw lots of exercise videos about reverse flies and everyone is different :/ can you give me an example video with dumbells.Thank you so much
    1. Yes RDL is good
    2. Not familiar with it, but I'm sure it's fine.
    3. Notice it's a horizontal pull and not incline. Notice the pause at the top. His thumbs are pointed forward, but you can point them down if you like.


    Originally Posted by Koino16 View Post
    Need help cuz im newbie any suggsrion about my daily routine

    First
    Breakfast oatmeal and bacon and i take 1scoop whey protein ,10grams bcaa 5000 powder and 2 tablets amino acids 2222 and 1 cup of coffe 30mins rest and hit the gym and finish gym i relax again in 30mins and i take 1 scoop whey protein , 5 grams creatine and 2 tablets amino acids 2222

    Last one going to bed i take 1scoop whey protein and 5grams glutamine

    Any suggstion anyone? Im new sorry
    Well in general I'd say that when you run out of the BCAA, amino acids and glutamine then don't order anymore. It's not helping you right now. If you'd been lifting for 10 years and were trying to squeeze the last tiny bit of muscle out of your genetics then it can be helpful, but all that crap isn't responsible for even 5% of your results right now. It's just costing you money.

    In terms of general advice, I'd suggest reading the FAQ. They have tons of good info about stuff you probably hadn't thought to ask about yet. Literally everything you need to know is in there if you take the time to go through it all slowly enough to retain it.
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    A lot of new posters in this thread obviously failing to read FAQs.....

    Like, seriously. Why would you come to a program's page and not read the instructions before asking your questions?
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    Originally Posted by Mertcann85 View Post
    It is written million times that gaining fat is almost impossible during bulking phase
    What? You have that completely backwards. It's almost unavoidable to gain some fat when you bulk.
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    Originally Posted by RK42 View Post
    What? You have that completely backwards. It's almost unavoidable to gain some fat when you bulk.
    Grammar edited, thanks.
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    Originally Posted by davisj3537 View Post

    You posted a lot of info and I'll try to address it all. First I want to say that if your diet isn't controlled then it's going to be nearly impossible to get handle on your bodyfat % and change your love handle situation. You seem to understand this, but for others reading, it had to be said again. If your diet is not controlled little to no progress will be made in terms of body composition. Getting within a few hundred calories a day is controlled by my standards. Over time you should still be seeing a trend of either gaining weight or losing it depending on your goal at the time. TNT already wrote a good post about this so I'm not going into any more detail. Again, you seem to realize this, but for others, it had to be mentioned.

    With that out of the way...So your idea is that if you spent a handful of months out of the year focusing on bringing up certain bodyparts then they would help hide fat on your love handles. This is right and wrong and I'll try to explain it as concisely as I can.

    The first thing that jumps out at me is balance. It isn't that Fierce 5 is sensitive to balanced development; it's our bodies and my interpretation of them. So like you mentioned hopping around between programs specifically designed to pour a bunch of work into certain body parts would lead to imbalances. You simply can't put a bunch of work into say shoulders and lats without fukking up your body. This takes a while to show itself in terms of pain, but it's going to happen eventually. Once they are fukked up there isn't going back. I've had two shoulder surgeries and it is absolute trash at this point. This approach would help hide some problems areas, but obviously it isn't reducing fat. It's also going to take a VERY long time to actually bring those areas up to a point that they help hide anything. Every cycle you ran to increase the size of those muscle is going to further fukk up your body and get you closer to making buddies with a shoulder surgeon.

    Another downside is shortening the progression cycle. Let's use 5/3/1 for an example because it's easy to understand. You are supposed to start using 90% of your 1RM and slowly month by month add weight to it. This cycle doesn't get hard for several months. For the first 2-3 months you're laying the ground work to make good strides in months 4+. If you switched after 3 months then you'd have just walked away from the best gains the program would have given you. All good programs work this way on different levels, but in every scenario you're not making your best gains in the first few months. That's why programs that start hard, heavy and have "12 week program" are commonly criticized. There is no peaking. Without peaking you're going to make worse progress. That's why beginners who hop around on different programs every 4 weeks make terrible progress.

    This is the reason I wrote it. I guess moving into early intermediate level or let's say progressing is not only about knowing your body and increasing the numbers, but also going deeper into the informational level; is my humble opinion. I try to optimize gains although it is too early via looking for alternatives, maybe even tiny shortcuts or adjustments that can be tailored according to my daily life conditions.

    My bad that, could not figure it out how long it will take to have that illusion related to lats or shoulders against love handles. I read a lot that, you are not a big fan of recomposing yourself, and I totally follow your path in this issue regarding to your knowledge and experience. So, a little effort on diet is the only exit way. Again, as usual; keeping it simple will be the solution.

    Reasons&science&experience...

    Thank you for your time, got my response.
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    Originally Posted by davisj3537 View Post
    Just wanted to add to what TNT said. If you're failing most sets then you'd have to reduce weight according to the reset protocol on the first page. Your entire questions tells me you either didn't read the first page or didn't plan on using the program correctly. Either mistake will lead to a lack of results.

    Not trying to criticize you, just trying to point you in the right direction brother.
    I had read it, honest!! But I take your point. I read it all initially at the weekend, and having started last night thought about this question. For whatever reason I didn't make the link to your notes about reset which in hindsight is stupid on my part, my bad.

    I do plan to to run the program to the letter. Having tried various other stuff over the years and only recently finding these forums, I'm looking forward to following something that seems to have been generally accepted as a good long term plan.

    I'll crack on!
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    Originally Posted by Mertcann85 View Post
    Grammar edited, thanks.
    You actually have pretty decent english.
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    When I began the program on Monday with workout B I switched the front squat to barbell squat, but I didn't do the pause barbell squat. Is it still permissible to do a barbell squat without the pause? Also, I think I hurt my knee when I did the squat on my way up. It feels kind of weird right now too, it doesnt hurt but it could get hurt if I do one more mistake on the exercise. What happened was that my knees didn't cooperate on the way up even though my toes were pointed outwards, but I think I should go a little bit lighter today when I do workout A and do 3x5 barbell squats.

    Is it possible to do a barbell behind the back squat and RDL on the same day, because I have a hard time doing the front squat because it is a pain in the ass to front squat with the barbell over my delts.
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    Originally Posted by Mertcann85 View Post
    This is the reason I wrote it. I guess moving into early intermediate level or let's say progressing is not only about knowing your body and increasing the numbers, but also going deeper into the informational level; is my humble opinion. I try to optimize gains although it is too early via looking for alternatives, maybe even tiny shortcuts or adjustments that can be tailored according to my daily life conditions.

    My bad that, could not figure it out how long it will take to have that illusion related to lats or shoulders against love handles. I read a lot that, you are not a big fan of recomposing yourself, and I totally follow your path in this issue regarding to your knowledge and experience. So, a little effort on diet is the only exit way. Again, as usual; keeping it simple will be the solution.

    Reasons&science&experience...

    Thank you for your time, got my response.
    Davis covered your question brilliantly as he always does. My response was geared around a kind of 'cost/benefit analysis' I got your point about trying to create the illusion, but for me it's a case of 'fat is easier to lose, than muscle is to build'. One of the other mods around here Ironwill2008 has a great tag line, 'you can't out train bad nutrition' and it holds up so true. The really are only two tricks to this it would seem, consistency and hard work. Well I suppose there is three, but we're talking natural methods here
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    Morning,

    Thought I'd update you! I'm absolutely shattered. The caloric deficit seems to be taking it's toll or I'm having a bad week, I've added in 30 or so minutes of steady state cardio on an incline treadmill which is estimated at 250ish loss of calories at a time in a bid to speed up the process. I'm 9 weeks into my cut and I've dropped about 8lbs in total, not quite the speed I wanted to be fair but I only added cardio in over the last 3 weeks. I'm now down to 201.5lbs with an initial target of 196 (I ideally want to drop further down to 182 but I'm not sure it's going to happen if I feel like this).

    My lifts in this time have all hit personal bests (however when I was 182lbs a few years ago I wasn't too far away from these lifts which is a bit beyond belief right now (apart from deadlifts as it was only one set doing 5*5). I'm currently at finishing the increased rep week and am at Bench 57.5KG (126lbs) Squat 90KG (198lbs ish) and deadlift working sets 120KG (265lbs ish).

    I've not really seen any visible changes to weight, or muscle which can be frustrating at times but hey ho, I know the score.

    My question today is about spotters.. I go to the gym alone, always have done. Last year I had an injury with 80kg on my back with squats that put me out for a considerable time with sciatica so this mentally plays a part. Anyway's yesterday I felt I was giving it my all to ensure that I got my final reps of each set up safely. How am I going to feel next week (on a deficit) when the weight is 95KG and two weeks after at 100KG? I understand how progressive overload works etc but I do fear that I'm possibly putting myself at risk going for now basically personal records every single week without having a spotter?

    Any thoughts?
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    hi davis,I did the changes you told me and program feels even better(int U/L).I have a few questions.I changed flies with flat dumbbell press in upper b day.You told that any chest exercise is okay are compounds are okay too?Because flies does not work your tri's.I feel I am pushing a little much(ohp,flat bench and tri pushdowns and each one works more or less triceps) is it okay or should I change flat dumb's with chest iso exercise.And second question which type of pushdown you recommend(straight bar,v bar,I can not say cable cause my gym does not have that :/ maybe towel)? Thank you man
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    Originally Posted by Irwell1986 View Post
    Morning,

    Thought I'd update you! I'm absolutely shattered. The caloric deficit seems to be taking it's toll or I'm having a bad week, I've added in 30 or so minutes of steady state cardio on an incline treadmill which is estimated at 250ish loss of calories at a time in a bid to speed up the process. I'm 9 weeks into my cut and I've dropped about 8lbs in total, not quite the speed I wanted to be fair but I only added cardio in over the last 3 weeks. I'm now down to 201.5lbs with an initial target of 196 (I ideally want to drop further down to 182 but I'm not sure it's going to happen if I feel like this).

    My lifts in this time have all hit personal bests (however when I was 182lbs a few years ago I wasn't too far away from these lifts which is a bit beyond belief right now (apart from deadlifts as it was only one set doing 5*5). I'm currently at finishing the increased rep week and am at Bench 57.5KG (126lbs) Squat 90KG (198lbs ish) and deadlift working sets 120KG (265lbs ish).

    I've not really seen any visible changes to weight, or muscle which can be frustrating at times but hey ho, I know the score.

    My question today is about spotters.. I go to the gym alone, always have done. Last year I had an injury with 80kg on my back with squats that put me out for a considerable time with sciatica so this mentally plays a part. Anyway's yesterday I felt I was giving it my all to ensure that I got my final reps of each set up safely. How am I going to feel next week (on a deficit) when the weight is 95KG and two weeks after at 100KG? I understand how progressive overload works etc but I do fear that I'm possibly putting myself at risk going for now basically personal records every single week without having a spotter?

    Any thoughts?
    I train alone and without a spotter. I just ensure I never go to failure and stop if I feel i'm going to struggle to get the last rep out safely - especially on bench.

    With squats you have the safety rails to drop the bar if your need to, but it is best to go with caution and follow the reset protocol where necessary.

    Deads and rows you can drop the bar too and OHP you can so shouldnt be too many issues there.

    If you are worried about injuring yourself due to form breakdown/failure you should already be thinking rest/reset in your head.
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    How do you know which program to use out of novice or intermediate?
    I'm currently 72kg and for bench do 3x8 on 65kg, for deadlifts 3x8 on 100kg, for pullups can do 2x8 and 1x6 and just coming back from ligament damage to ankle so getting back into squats slowly but am leg pressing 4x10 on 100.
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    Originally Posted by bob2589 View Post
    I train alone and without a spotter. I just ensure I never go to failure and stop if I feel i'm going to struggle to get the last rep out safely - especially on bench.

    With squats you have the safety rails to drop the bar if your need to, but it is best to go with caution and follow the reset protocol where necessary.

    Deads and rows you can drop the bar too and OHP you can so shouldnt be too many issues there.

    If you are worried about injuring yourself due to form breakdown/failure you should already be thinking rest/reset in your head.
    Safety bars **** me over, I hit into them when I drop so it puts me off.
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    Originally Posted by liftertr View Post
    hi davis,I did the changes you told me and program feels even better(int U/L).I have a few questions.I changed flies with flat dumbbell press in upper b day.You told that any chest exercise is okay are compounds are okay too?Because flies does not work your tri's.I feel I am pushing a little much(ohp,flat bench and tri pushdowns and each one works more or less triceps) is it okay or should I change flat dumb's with chest iso exercise.And second question which type of pushdown you recommend(straight bar,v bar,I can not say cable cause my gym does not have that :/ maybe towel)? Thank you man
    You can keep the press. No harm is giving the tris extra work in this case. Any kind of pushdown you like brother.
    Originally Posted by bob2589 View Post
    I train alone and without a spotter. I just ensure I never go to failure and stop if I feel i'm going to struggle to get the last rep out safely - especially on bench.

    With squats you have the safety rails to drop the bar if your need to, but it is best to go with caution and follow the reset protocol where necessary.

    Deads and rows you can drop the bar too and OHP you can so shouldnt be too many issues there.

    If you are worried about injuring yourself due to form breakdown/failure you should already be thinking rest/reset in your head.
    This^^^

    post a form video if you'd like help. Form or lack of a plan for failing is what will injure you, not failing a rep.
    Originally Posted by Amandeep3 View Post
    How do you know which program to use out of novice or intermediate?
    I'm currently 72kg and for bench do 3x8 on 65kg, for deadlifts 3x8 on 100kg, for pullups can do 2x8 and 1x6 and just coming back from ligament damage to ankle so getting back into squats slowly but am leg pressing 4x10 on 100.
    I would go novice. If you do it for a few months and don't like it then move to intermediate.
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