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  1. #1921
    "showtime a-holes" DAaaMan64's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by themonkay View Post
    Problem is my join date....

    I'm starting to feel like I've seen all the trends, and its starting to go full circle.
    Can you summarize how we've come full circle? (I don't doubt it...)


    DUP's popularity seems to have all stemmed from this study. Show that Linear Periodization vs Undulating in equal level trainees got better gainz on undulation.
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  2. #1922
    Registered User ErikTheElectric's Avatar
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    Didn't get the 190 x 5 bench that I wanted today, but managed to get the 80s up for four reps. Which made me think that it wasn't a completely mediocre session.. just going to have to keep trying.



    Flat bench - 190

    DB incline bench - 80s x 4 (+5lbs)
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  3. #1923
    Lifting Vicariously Domicron's Avatar
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    what are your guys' thoughts? i'm still trying to get comfortable with this lift, thanks.
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  4. #1924
    100% Delirious themonkay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DAaaMan64 View Post
    Can you summarize how we've come full circle? (I don't doubt it...)


    DUP's popularity seems to have all stemmed from this study. Show that Linear Periodization vs Undulating in equal level trainees got better gainz on undulation.
    Full circle because it seems like every 6-12 months people are on a high about a new training protocol. When I joined this forum, a lot of people were into the typical splits (usually upper lower, or ppl). Going below 5 reps with a hypertrophy goal was blasphemy. Then, all of a sudden, the 531 craze happened. It was now acceptable to test your 1rm, even if your primarily lifting for physique goals. Madcows, TM, and everyone's spinoff version of them became popular. This pseudo-power building stuff eventually led to everyone wanting to compete in powerlifting....Then came the whole aesthetics movement: PPL, Upper Lower, PHAT, bro splits, etc. Somewhere a little after that everyone becomes a mobility guru, and they end up spending more time in the gym humping a foam roller and 10 fukin different styrofoam balls rather than actually lifting....but they will tell your they are a strength athlete. This DUP to me is just another version of the powerlifting craze.

    ...Again, I guarantee my summary above is all out of order and occurred in a different way to many other people's minds, but if you look at the big picture of what I described, I think most would agree.

    I do not think DUP is bad at all. In fact, I do believe it is a superior method of training. I just think "DUP" is a great way to overcomplicate a relatively simple concept that a monkey could understand (strong username to post content ratio).

    Consider this: I first heard of DUP 2 years ago from the N'misc Voldemort on his first channel lol.

    All DUP is saying is that you should be applying different training methods in order to reach your goal.........Well no shyt fuktard. Who the hell makes any gains (strength or hypertrophy) working in one rep range forever? This is like when Bros would debate against IIFYM (before that term got shredded to shyt) by asking if you can reach your macros with table sugar, olive oil, and whey.

    What irritates me even more is that DUP took a simple concept, made it sound sexy, but dumbed it down so much that people think it applies only to reps. 531 BBB protocol...is that not a form of DUP? Sure, the 5x10 sets are not the primary focus in your progression, but you do still want that to increase over time regardless. How about Madcows or TM? For squats you use a heavy 5x5 one day, a light 2-5 sets of 5 the next lifting day, and a heavy near max set on the third day. With Madcows you even throw in a set of 8 to stimulate further hypertrophy.

    Any program that has shown success for intermediate and advanced lifters, and wasn't constructed by a retard, employs some form of DUP.

    So yah...not hating on whoever coined the term, just getting irritated with the bandwaggoners acting like DUP is some new phenomenon.
    #hipster


    The study you posted was an interesting read. Funny it is from 2002. I can't put much faith in it though. They were measuring bench press. Sure, that sounds great initially from our perspective, but there's a reason most hypertrophy studies use leg extensions. People's techniques on bench press vary greatly, and that varies how everyone accumulates fatigue. Plus, reading it almost makes it seem like they set the LP group up to fail. BRB trying to get stronger attempting an 8rm on bench 3 days a week for 4 weeks straight. lol
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  5. #1925
    "showtime a-holes" DAaaMan64's Avatar
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    reps for life monkay. awesome post
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  6. #1926
    Registered User JHarden's Avatar
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    @monkay - I totally agree. DUP has become a buzzword and even a hashtag on Instagram and Twitter. The thing is, DUP isn't a protocol. It's simply a way of organizing training, but it can't be the only way structure your programming. You have to have some undulation and some linearity. You can change the rep range and intensity during the week (DUP) but you have to increase the weight eventually in order to progress (linearity). Even Mike Zourdos, who kinda started this whole thing, has said this on Lane's podcast.

    Mike Israetel really summed this up the best in his series of articles for Juggernaut. Anyone who is interested in reading further can see http://www.jtsstrength.com/articles/...initive-guide/
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  7. #1927
    100% Delirious themonkay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DAaaMan64 View Post
    reps for life monkay. awesome post
    Always on spread with you. You know the right buttons to push with these topics to get me going lol

    Originally Posted by JHarden View Post
    @monkay - I totally agree. DUP has become a buzzword and even a hashtag on Instagram and Twitter. The thing is, DUP isn't a protocol. It's simply a way of organizing training, but it can't be the only way structure your programming. You have to have some undulation and some linearity. You can change the rep range and intensity during the week (DUP) but you have to increase the weight eventually in order to progress (linearity). Even Mike Zourdos, who kinda started this whole thing, has said this on Lane's podcast.

    Mike Israetel really summed this up the best in his series of articles for Juggernaut. Anyone who is interested in reading further can see http://www.jtsstrength.com/articles/...initive-guide/
    Agreed, its a structure not a protocol. What I fear, is that like always, people will take DUP to the extreme, and almost entirely neglect the linearity aspect of it. I know it seems foolish, but I really wouldn't doubt the plausibility.

    Thx for the link. Will check it out
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  8. #1928
    Registered User Siobahn's Avatar
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    Monkay, your comment just made me like "stfu go and lift" and actually had a pr deadlift. Thanks!
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  9. #1929
    100% Delirious themonkay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Siobahn View Post
    Monkay, your comment just made me like "stfu go and lift" and actually had a pr deadlift. Thanks!
    Haha awesome!
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  10. #1930
    Registered User ErikTheElectric's Avatar
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    Hit 260lbs... 5x5 today. Pretty happy with +5lbs. Not looking to jump 10-15lbs per week, like I did last time and potentially injure myself. Really liking the 5x5 work, but it's pretty taxing.. especially after 15,000 ft of climbing. Will probably cut it to 3x5

    Back squat (260lbs) (+5lbs)
     
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  11. #1931
    I'm VitaminVendetta PerpetualMotion's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by themonkay View Post
    531 BBB protocol...is that not a form of DUP? SHow about Madcows or TM?
    None of those are DUP, though. Those are really more basic linear periodization.

    I agree with the overall theme of your post. People just have to find what's good for them. I never really did well on linear periodization, even as a beginner. It's when I stopped listening to generalized advice that I made most of my progress. Everyone has their own thing. And the research behind DUP is meh. There's no research that states one kind of training is best. If anything, block may come out with the slightest edge, but, really, it's all equal.
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  12. #1932
    Registered User rgauthier20420's Avatar
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    Hey guys, monkay told me to post a question regarding my proposed routine in this thread for additional critiques and advice. Be gentle.

    The original goal was to do a full body 3 x week. But, with my lunch schedule only being 35 minutes in the gym, I'm restricted and can't do what I want in that time frame. So, I'm breaking up a full body workout into 2 days and doing that 2 x week. Essentially, I'm wanting to do Monday (Legs, Chest, Triceps), Tuesday (Back, Biceps, Shoulders), Wed (off), Thu (same as Monday), Friday (same as Tuesday), Sat/Sun (off). This is a rep to fail type program (with good form and a spot on all big lifts). I don't plan on hurting myself, but I intend to push myself hard.

    Here's the full routine:

    Monday/Thursday:
    Squat: 2 x 8-12
    Calf Raise: 2 x 8-12
    Bench: 2 x 8-12
    Incline DB Fly: 2 x 8-12
    Tricep Extensions: 2 x 8-12
    Reverse Tricep Pull Down: 2 x 8-12

    Tuesday/Wed:
    Dead Lifts: 2 x 8-12
    OHP: 2 x 8-12
    Lateral Shoulder Raise: 2 x 8-12
    Standing Barbell Curl: 2 x 8-12
    Preacher Curl: 2 x 8-12
    Seated/Bent Over Row: 2 x 8-12
    Back Flys: 2 x 8-12
    Shrugs: 2 x 8-12

    The progression plan is this. If I can get more than 12 reps on the 1st set, add 5 lbs more. I would continue this until I can get more than 12 reps at the new weight, then add another 5 lbs to the lift. The 2nd set of each lift is a 10% drop from the 1st. There would be no de-load with this plan because of the rep range that's included. I'm looking at this as a 10 week program looking to build size and strength (mainly size). The lifting scheme is sort of built at Mark's THT program.

    Current stats are:
    Bench: 155 x 10
    Squat: 195 x 12
    DL: 135 x 12

    These are sort of from memory.

    Thanks!
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  13. #1933
    lagging quads connorpat1995's Avatar
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    too much overlap, too much fluff for a short routine.

    here's a simplified push/pull:

    Push

    Pull


    OHP

    Deadlift or DL variant

    squat or front squat

    chins

    bench

    seated row

    tipcep/lat raises superset

    curls/rear delt superset



    that's the best I can do to create an evenly spread out 2-day split. 2 sets for everything, 1 set for deadlifts if it beats you up
    OHP is ahead of squats because it would eat into your bench too much otherwise

    I'd advise progression through reps. Start with 5 and add a rep each time until you hit 8, then add 5lb (10 for squat and DL) and start over again. If you fail to hit the required reps, take 5lb off the bar.
    Last edited by connorpat1995; 11-19-2014 at 02:34 PM.
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  14. #1934
    Lifting Vicariously Domicron's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rgauthier20420 View Post
    Hey guys, monkay told me to post a question regarding my proposed routine in this thread for additional critiques and advice. Be gentle.

    The original goal was to do a full body 3 x week. But, with my lunch schedule only being 35 minutes in the gym, I'm restricted and can't do what I want in that time frame. So, I'm breaking up a full body workout into 2 days and doing that 2 x week. Essentially, I'm wanting to do Monday (Legs, Chest, Triceps), Tuesday (Back, Biceps, Shoulders), Wed (off), Thu (same as Monday), Friday (same as Tuesday), Sat/Sun (off). This is a rep to fail type program (with good form and a spot on all big lifts). I don't plan on hurting myself, but I intend to push myself hard.
    i mean, 5/3/1 is 4 lifts per week and you could just squeeze in whatever accessory work you have time for...maybe that's an idea?

    also, i'm guessing from the lack of replies that my sumo deadlifts are 100% perfect and there's zero room for improvement, right?
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  15. #1935
    Registered User ErikTheElectric's Avatar
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    Deads from today.. was pretty dissapointed to not hit another new 5RM. (Would've been 385 x 5).

    Got four reps, felt like I could've gotten 5 if I was fresh. Yesterday was definitely the most taxing day in ages. There's always next week I guess.

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    345 triple

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  16. #1936
    Registered User rgauthier20420's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Domicron View Post
    i mean, 5/3/1 is 4 lifts per week and you could just squeeze in whatever accessory work you have time for...maybe that's an idea?

    also, i'm guessing from the lack of replies that my sumo deadlifts are 100% perfect and there's zero room for improvement, right?
    I like how that routine looks. Can someone suggest an accessory split that covers the other muscles twice a week with it?
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    Originally Posted by rgauthier20420 View Post
    I like how that routine looks. Can someone suggest an accessory split that covers the other muscles twice a week with it?
    Mon: 531 bench then ohp accessory
    Tues: 531 squat, deadlift acc.
    Off
    Thurs: 531 ohp, bench acc
    Fri: 531 deadlift, squat accessory (you can even do the squat first if you want. I know I personally don't like squatting with a fatigued back. Or just make your squatt accessory a leg press or front squat).

    I'd do boring but big (5x10 on accessories...or 3x10 if you don't have time, or whatever rep scheme fits).

    Accessories would depend on your goals. If you are powerlifting focused, I'd stick to close variants of the big 3. If you're more bb or aesthetically focused:
    Bench acc: flies, or an incline press
    Ohp : lateral raises and rear delt superset (since time matters)
    Squat: leg curl, or leg press
    Dead: I'd think about doing some kind of row or lat movement.
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    reposting since i got railroaded by DUP



    it's be suggested to me that i don't look like i'm tight enough before the reps start, any other suggestions? one thing i've noticed is that i don't really feel it in my glutes...
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    Originally Posted by lee__d View Post
    Mon: 531 bench then ohp accessory
    Tues: 531 squat, deadlift acc.
    Off
    Thurs: 531 ohp, bench acc
    Fri: 531 deadlift, squat accessory (you can even do the squat first if you want. I know I personally don't like squatting with a fatigued back. Or just make your squatt accessory a leg press or front squat).

    I'd do boring but big (5x10 on accessories...or 3x10 if you don't have time, or whatever rep scheme fits).

    Accessories would depend on your goals. If you are powerlifting focused, I'd stick to close variants of the big 3. If you're more bb or aesthetically focused:
    Bench acc: flies, or an incline press
    Ohp : lateral raises and rear delt superset (since time matters)
    Squat: leg curl, or leg press
    Dead: I'd think about doing some kind of row or lat movement.
    From what I was reading on the routine, it separated each major lift individually per day and then added the accessories. I do like the idea of working the major lifts twice a week though. That was something I originally had planned into the routine. So I will go with that then. I suppose it would be best to mix in the shoulder, bicep, and tricep accessories on the bench/OHP days and the back on leg stuff on the DL, and Squat days right?
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    you could look into the beginner's variant of the 5/3/1 program. it's what i'm on and i'm enjoying it so far
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    Originally Posted by Domicron View Post
    you could look into the beginner's variant of the 5/3/1 program. it's what i'm on and i'm enjoying it so far
    So that looks to similar to lee's routine, but only 1 day of dead and ohp. I do think I'm looking to do a 2 times per week set of each of the heavy lifts. From reading a bit more, it looks like they are using some simple accessory work in conjunction with the big lifts. What type of accessory work are you adding in?
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    Originally Posted by rgauthier20420 View Post
    From what I was reading on the routine, it separated each major lift individually per day and then added the accessories. I do like the idea of working the major lifts twice a week though. That was something I originally had planned into the routine. So I will go with that then. I suppose it would be best to mix in the shoulder, bicep, and tricep accessories on the bench/OHP days and the back on leg stuff on the DL, and Squat days right?
    I believe there are 3 editions of 531 in print and there are a ton of ideas laid out by wendler for how to arrange the accessories.

    I'd personally arrange the accessories to allow for higher frequency per body part (rather than doing 531 bench then bench accessory on the same day).

    Yea I'd leave arms for the bench and ohp days, and legs/back for the squat or dead days. You can even throwbiceps on one of the squat or dead days. All very flexible.

    I just made those suggestions off the top of my head while considering you'd be pressed for time.
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    Originally Posted by lee__d View Post
    I believe there are 3 editions of 531 in print and there are a ton of ideas laid out by wendler for how to arrange the accessories.

    I'd personally arrange the accessories to allow for higher frequency per body part (rather than doing 531 bench then bench accessory on the same day).

    Yea I'd leave arms for the bench and ohp days, and legs/back for the squat or dead days. You can even throwbiceps on one of the squat or dead days. All very flexible.

    I just made those suggestions off the top of my head while considering you'd be pressed for time.
    I'm definitely seeing that there are lots of variations to the program. I do appreciate the suggestion Lee. They are indeed very helpful. The program seems similar to what I am looking for with a path laid out nice and clear on progressions for strength. I like that I'm also able to include some isolation for additional mass stimulation. I also REALLY like that there is an APP for the 5/3/1 program.
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    Originally Posted by rgauthier20420 View Post
    So that looks to similar to lee's routine, but only 1 day of dead and ohp. I do think I'm looking to do a 2 times per week set of each of the heavy lifts. From reading a bit more, it looks like they are using some simple accessory work in conjunction with the big lifts. What type of accessory work are you adding in?
    rows, RDL, biceps and abs on bench/squat days; lunges, chin ups, triceps, and abs on days i'm doing ohp/deadlift

    the nice thing is you can play around with the accessory work and tailor it to your needs and wants. ive gotten a ton of input from others (mostly Monkay) and then i sort of tailor it to suit my interests/needs.
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    Thanks Dom. That's sort of the plan for the moment. Since I'm cutting, I'm roaming around trying to find a routine that'll fit my schedule and goals. This way when the time comes to begin bulking, I won't be moping around in the gym throwing a make shift routine together. I figure I can figure out a routine and give a good 4 - 6 week trial to the end of my cut, maybe make some strength gains, and then be fully ready to roll.
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    Originally Posted by rgauthier20420 View Post
    Thanks Dom. That's sort of the plan for the moment. Since I'm cutting, I'm roaming around trying to find a routine that'll fit my schedule and goals. This way when the time comes to begin bulking, I won't be moping around in the gym throwing a make shift routine together. I figure I can figure out a routine and give a good 4 - 6 week trial to the end of my cut, maybe make some strength gains, and then be fully ready to roll.
    how tall are you? from your avatar, you don't look like you need to be cutting. i wish i was as lean as you look; i'd be bulking.
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    Originally Posted by Domicron View Post
    how tall are you? from your avatar, you don't look like you need to be cutting. i wish i was as lean as you look; i'd be bulking.
    I'm currently 174.4 and 5'6". I'm looking to get down to 165 or so and then begin my bulk. Hoping that will be around the new year or just after. I'll take the complement though. Thanks.
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    Originally Posted by Domicron View Post
    how tall are you? from your avatar, you don't look like you need to be cutting. i wish i was as lean as you look; i'd be bulking.
    Just want to throw it out there, that you're looking very good right about now, man. Was mirin' in your video. You've definitely been progressing more than you think

    Also, since I haven't posted in here for a while... Here's a couple of my lifts.



    ^Not pretty! But I'm proud of it.

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    Originally Posted by TypeNirvash View Post
    ^Not pretty! But I'm proud of it.
    that's something to be proud of. As mentioned in the log you can smash 4 plates easy with a belt
    log:
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    nothing but the basics
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    Originally Posted by TypeNirvash View Post
    Not pretty! But I'm proud of it.

    Sounds just like my sexual history.
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