well boyos...
My nightmare of a right shoulder that needed a tenodesis is coming along nicely...got out of the sling on Aug 4th an i just started 2lb weight raises yesterday to shoulder height.
just had a regular mri done on my left shoulder yesterday. I had one done a year ago with the arthrogram that came back clean. It has hurt nonstop since march 2015.. findings from the regular mri yesterday
1.mild suprspinatus & infraspinatus tendinosis
2. undersurface fraying of posterior superior labrum
3. mild atrophy of teres minor
safe to say it's probably a little worse once they go in? I completely doubt MRI accuracy ever since my hip and shoulder ones came back with minimal issues only for the scope to go in and get worst case scenarios every time...
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08-26-2016, 11:35 AM #1081
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08-26-2016, 02:04 PM #1082
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08-26-2016, 09:04 PM #1083
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I honestly don't know. I was so set on getting this other shoulder scoped, but my hips are still bothering me. That ortho said he'd have to go back in to see what's going on, but he thinks I need an iliopsoas release. I get that mri result back next week....fml...
I'm just so broken at this point. They've pretty much told me that if I was old enough I'd have my hips replaced already that's how bad of shape they're in but they won't because I'm too young. The response I get everything is "you've had alot of work done." This last visit on Monday the PA knows me and she catches up whatever fellow they make you see before the ortho and she told them "this is chris. He's a former athlete who destroyed his hips"
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09-02-2016, 09:37 AM #1084
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So I wrote a letter to the ortho, CEO, COO, and division chair a little over a month ago regarding the gross mistreatment and misdiagnosis I initially received back in early 2015. It was a pretty lengthy letter about 7 pages as I had a total of 3 visits with no diagnosis other than "inflammation" that I had to live with for well over a year before seeing another ortho and having the surgery in late June of this year. To make it worse, they even did the old switch-a-roo where I make an appointment with the ortho's personal assistant when he was out of town and when I went in they made me wait over 90mins and then put me in a room with a fellow who didn't know **** and started yawning in my face! (You kind of get the drift as to why the letter was so long) I hadn't heard back from anyone at all so I figured the letters must have got lost in the mail or just discarded. I called the same practice yesterday to make an appointment with their hip specialist (hip scopes are very special and only a few do them) for a 2nd opinion and I made an appointment. I got a call back today from their compliance person basically telling me that because of my history and the letter I sent about the shoulder that it's a conflict of interest and they will not see me for the hip. What a joke that practice has become! I basically told her it was unacceptable not hearing back from anyone involved and that today was the first time I had heard from anyone associated with their practice in over a year from when I spoke with their COO who promised to follow up about my mistreatment and see where things went wrong.
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09-02-2016, 10:42 AM #1085
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09-02-2016, 01:57 PM #1086
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12-19-2016, 10:28 AM #1087
Almost 2 and half years since my surgery and my shoulder is still holding up and strong as ever. Competed in my first mens physique show a year and half after surgery and on my prep for a 2nd show. So glad I got the surgery! And good luck to everyone going through the process. Glad I started this thread as I see it has has helped a lot.
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12-19-2016, 01:05 PM #1088
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01-26-2017, 07:47 PM #1089
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01-27-2017, 08:55 AM #1090
Glad to hear some success stories here!
My shoulder is holding up ok. I still have some bicep tendinitis that pops up here and there, but I'm used to it by this point, and I've accepted the fact that I'll probably deal with that forever. Im still far better off than I was prior to surgery.
I definitely have some limitations too, and those won't be going away either. There are certain exercises/movements that I just can't or won't do...and I'm ok with that. I think an important aspect of recovery is managing your expectations, and I've accepted that some things are off limits for me.
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01-29-2017, 09:50 AM #1091
I'm not sure how but my biceps tendinitis went away and it lasted for more than a year after the surgery. Probably from weakness/scar tissue buildup.
I have limitations as well but I work around it. No barbell bench. For upper pecs I'll use incline hammer strength or Smith incline. Only do palms up back exercises. Etc. You can still advance your physique and make great gains, it's just not the most traditional route
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01-29-2017, 10:03 AM #1092
I'm 4 years post op, so I'm assuming that the tendinitis is something that'll be sticking around for awhile. It comes and goes, and isn't a major hindrance. As long as I stay on top of my stretching and foam rolling it's usually not an issue.
Yea I don't do any barbell pressing, and I'm picky about my grips. No OHP or dips either.
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02-12-2017, 04:01 PM #1093
Dropping in real quick... Wanted to post what lifts I do with regularity and which ones to avoid. I've probably been lifting for the last year and a half without any setbacks (but there were many in the first 14-16 months after the surgery... realize these things take time. That said my tear was bad, so don't freak out if you're reading this!)
When you go through this injury/surgery, you'll want to modify your workouts. I may miss some here/there:
Chest lifts that work for me:
- Dumbell bench press - keep it at 90, do a weight that will allow you to do at least 10 reps, probably better off with at least 12.
- Incline Hammer strength - great great great exercise. Literally got a membership at a local gym for this machine.
- Smith machine
- Any chest press machine that doesn't force you to start far behind you. This puts the shoulder in a tough position.
- Pec deck
- Pushups
Chest lifts I avoid:
- Bench press - could I do it? Probably. But I ditched the barbell, personally. Dumbells should take more pressure off the joint.
- Incline dumbell/barbell - I use the smith machine and hammer strength because it takes more pressure of the joint.
- Flies - you're better off with the pec deck. This is what my surgeon advised.
- Tricep pushups - I noticed that the joint won't tolerate this. With regular pushups/bosu ball pushups, pushups with angled dumbells, I'm fine.
- Regular chest hammer strength - you're forced to start far back with this machine. If you do use this machine, go very high rep as a burnout session to end your workout. But I would just use the incline hammer strength instead.
Shoulder lifts that work for me:
- Most machines, as long as my elbows are not forced to externally rotate too much (so as an example, the hammer strength shoulder press is a no no for me)
- Dumbell flies (anterior or side)
- rear delt work hasn't been a big issue.
- Shrugs
- Smith machine press - I love hammer strength's smith machine. There's a lot of "fluidity" to it and I'm allowed to put a lot of stress on my upper body without overloading the joint. Keep it at at least 10 reps.
- Tread lightly, but a lift I did for a while - got on both knees and "pressed" an olympic bar with the other end in the corner of a wall, too lazy to look up the name. It seems like it would be taxing on the shoulder, but believe it or not I never felt discomfort doing these.
Shoulder lifts I avoid:
- Dumbell or military press
- as mentioned, hammer strength shoulder press
- Upright rows - don't even think about it
Back exercise discussion:
Deadlifts - I have no issues deadlifting. I would wait a while before you go back into these, however. I'd be more concerned about slipping a disk than wrecking my shoulder on these, personally.
- Pretty much anything with a palms up grip, however sometimes I've found pullups to be uncomfortable... I stick with pulldowns as I can focus on the contraction more.
- You should be OK with most rowing positions, but I would advise a neutral or palms up grip. I can't explain the science behind it that well, but my chiropractor who had this injury himself explained it to me. I stopped doing wide-grip lat pulldowns and switched to the "revolving bar" i.e. that bar that allows for a neutral grip with the handles on the side... big difference.
- For some reason I had issues with dumbell rows and stopped doing these. I use either an Olympic bar or EZ curl bar.
- In summary basically for any back lift I make sure I can't see the top of my hands.
Bicep lifts that don't work for me:
- Haven't tried these but I can't imagine spider curls being great for the shoulder.
- I would avoid using the EZ curl bar on the seated bench... You're better off with machines/cables/dumbells
- Would like to add that reverse curls DO work for me.
Tricep exercises to avoid:
- I can pretty much do any tricep lift that I can think of on hand... however I have avoided skullcrushers... not sure if it would work for me.
Leg exercise discussion:
- I stopped doing back squats. Again, you're forced to reach back. Could I do them? Yea, but not worth it. If you're serious about the gym, get yourself a safety squat bar. I found mine on Amazon for $180. Great investment. I love it.
- If you don't opt for the safety squat bar, front squats are fine.
That should cover most of it... sorry if that was jumbled but kind of was thinking outloudLast edited by theuptownfan; 02-12-2017 at 04:23 PM.
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02-13-2017, 08:35 AM #1094- Tread lightly, but a lift I did for a while - got on both knees and "pressed" an olympic bar with the other end in the corner of a wall, too lazy to look up the name. It seems like it would be taxing on the shoulder, but believe it or not I never felt discomfort doing these.
You could also look at doing board presses so you don't lower the bar more than you're comfortable with. Also, lying triceps extensions you might like (see Rippetoe's video), as well as face pulls, band a parts, and scarecrows (or cuban presses).
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02-13-2017, 09:24 AM #1095
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- Location: Chicago, Illinois, United States
- Posts: 15,711
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So I'm back on crutches for another week after another hip scope and my shoulder is sore again. I'm hoping it's just from crutch use. I am almost 8 months out from the bicep tenodesis and my soreness/pain is right in that anterior region. I'm also getting alot of clunking in the AC/clavical/coracoid area, especially when doing a front raise.
Last edited by ToPHeR35; 02-13-2017 at 09:29 AM.
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03-12-2017, 07:48 AM #1096
Hi guys, this is my first post but ive read through this thread with interest - massive respect to all of you who have gone through surgery.
My left shoulder subluxed two weeks ago whilst doing flat bench dumbell pullovers. I think i went too far down rather than it being a result of any underlying shoulder instability. It sort of circled and popped back in at the top of the movement and i heard some crunching/tearing before feeling a bit of pain. However the pain at the time of injury was not too bad - it was more of a shock than anything.
I went to the hospital that day and they took an x ray which showed no damage to the bones. But the last two weeks I have had fairly significant shoulder pain, particularly when taking off / putting on my jacket and i certainly cant lie on it.
I have an appointment with a pt in one week to assumedly go through some movement exercises and determine the problem. I tried to hit the gym yesterday but it was too painful - i couldnt even get my arm behind the bar for squats. Other than this though i have fairly decent rom without pain but fail the obriens test easily.
My question is can the shoulder sublux without damaging the labrum? Or can it sublux and just damage the cuff? Im praying that its just cuff damage but slowly starting to understand its probably a labral tear.
Any infor appreciated.
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03-12-2017, 09:44 AM #1097
Bankart tears occur when the labrum is jamming into the coracoid process. The cause of this is excessive lateral rotation of the scapula during shoulder flexion.
First of all you need to stop pulling your scapula back when you go into shoulder flexion. It's a great, ridiculous MYTH that the shoulder blades should retract when they arms are loaded! Second, try to force a small increase of medial scapular rotation. But, excessive medial rotation of the scap isn't good either, as this may jam the posterior rim of the labrum during abduction and horizontal abduction.
Strengthen the serratus anterior, pecs, pec minor which are all medial scapular rotators.Kjetil Larsen
CPT, CES, NKT
Owner of Trainingandrehabilitation.com
� Did I answer your injury question? Please supply the following info: 1) EXACT spot of pain(s)? (put a mark on a picture); 2) what type of pain is it? (burning, radiative, lightning, aching, jamming up, etc); 3) EXACTLY what movement(s) provocate the same pain? Specifics matter!
� Read my articles - https://treningogrehab.no/category/articles-in-english/
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03-12-2017, 12:32 PM #1098
Was this post made by me in a parallel universe? This sounds exactly like what I went through.
I RARELY check this thread anymore, crazy that you posted this today. You've probably read a lot of my posts.
So yea, I tore my labrum in the gym, and I had the same feeling you did. Not a ton of pain, but more "shock" than anything like you say. I had bad shoulder pain in the following days, but this also was due to a strained delt. I had lots of pain just putting on a jacket like you.
Let me tell you, I did exactly what you did and saw a PT about 4 weeks after the injury. I'm not telling you to cancel your appointment, but in my opinion they are not qualified to help you until you know exactly what you're dealing with.
Please don't make the same mistake I did. I saw a GP who claimed to have a lot of knowledge on shoulder injuries. Ran some bogus "tests" and was certain I had no tears. Still had bad symptoms a few months after, eventually got an MRI (I insisted it would be and MRI + Arthrogram, but she doubted I had a labrum tear... WRONG) so MRI pretty much came back negative and I was told to just take "anti inflammatories..." this was already 4.5 months after the injury... such a joke right?
Finally I saw a qualified orthopedic surgeon 4 months after that and got the MRI + A, which showed the labrum tear. Got the surgery a week or 2 later.
So my advice to you man would be don't do what I did. See the best orthopedic surgeon on your area. Healthgrades.com might be a good place to start, or call an well-respected institute that you know of, and they will lead you in the right direction. Trust me, don't deal with general practitioners, physical therapists, etc. It's a waste of your valuable time. You need to visit an orthopedic surgeon and get that MRI + Arthrogram.
I can't explain to you the science of it but the Arthrogram involves dye injection, which will pick up potential labrum abnormalities, unlike a regular MRI which doesn't with as much visibility (don't worry, the orthopedic will know better if they suspect a labrum tear, so if they order the MRI it should include this).
Good luck man. Remember, see the QUALIFIED orthopedic ASAP who deals with sports injuries. The best in your area. If you have to schedule a few weeks out, so be it. Once you know exactly what you're dealing with, you'll be able to attack it, whether conservatively or through surgery.
Your question about subluxations and avoiding labrum tears? I would think this is possible. You have ligaments that surround the labrum... when a subluxation occurs it stretches them... perhaps the labrum is still intact... but again don't take that speculation from me go schedule an appointment with an orthopedic surgeon!!!
Good luck
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03-12-2017, 01:50 PM #1099
Thanks for your reply its really appreciated and yeah I had followed your journey through this thread - glad that you came through the other side In good health.
Seems like its time to see an ortho. Im in the UK so its slightly different in terms of gaining advice, but im willing to pay my own money at this point just to get an accurate diagnosis.
Ive had the anti inflammatory advice too. I think i could probably get it to a pain free point in a couple more weeks but I can just tell something is wrong, and I dont want to give myself a false sense of security only for it to fully dislocate while im benching.
Thanks for your advice bro.
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03-24-2017, 07:55 AM #1100
Uptownfan - im not sure if youll read this but I followed your advice and saw a top UK shoulder ortho. He ordered an MRI which has revealed a 'significant' anterior labrum tear. He said try physio first.
Im pain free and have a good ROM. I know most of you guys opted for surgery but are there any cases where physio has prevaled and restored the shoulder to a somewhat healthy state? Healthy enough to lift I mean.
Ill opt for surgery down the road but my job situation means i cant do it for another year or so.
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03-24-2017, 12:15 PM #1101
The conservative treatment is to PT the shoulder, but the labrum won't heal, it will still be torn. What the PT will do is try to recruit other muscles to stabilize the shoulder. You will learn a whole host of exercises for the AC/RC/Scap and it may work in stabilizing the joint. However, if you play any contact sport (Rugby, American Football, Basketball, Ice Hockey, etc) you will still have upwards of an %85 chance of dislocating or subluxing the shoulder again. In my son's case he subluxed his shoulder making a tackle in 10th grade. Rehab was around 4-5 months and was very successful in stabilizing his shoulder. He was able to lift heavy again and was cleared to play football the following year. During 2-a-days for football he had some discomfort in his scapula at the end of practice and the thought was to have an MRI-A at the end of the season. Well he didn't make it that far. Instead, in the 2nd game of his Junior (11th grad) year he blew his shoulder out (a teammate went up through his shoulder - pretty ugly to watch on tape) and it subluxed again - but he had broken bones in his shoulder as well as a 270 degree tear of his labrum. He needed 6 anchors and it took a good seven months of very hard work to get back to playing shape. So figure he lost two seasons and a couple of years dealing with this. It would have been much better to have operated on his shoulder after the first subluxation. After the surgery, he had PT for about a year, and the final exam was 2 years post OP. He's now in college playing football and doing track (shot, weight, discus, hammer, javelin) and he's much stronger now than in high school although his upper body is a bit weaker than some of his teammates (his max bench is around 345lbs IIRC, whereas he needs to get it closer to 400lb).
If you go the non-surgery route be very serious with your rehab exercises and plan on doing them as prehab 3-7 days/week forever.
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04-25-2017, 09:21 PM #1102
Been reading this forum since 2 April 2017 surgery scheduled for tomorrow! Just wanted everyone to know that these posts are what motivate a community of people suffering from shoulder injuries and are on the fence about getting their issues repaired. For myself at least it has been a huge reason why I am going forward with the surgery, just hearing the success of others and timelines really helps to manage anxiety and expectations. So here I go DAY 0 (Day before surgery).
Background... I suffer from shoulder subluxations (partial shoulder dislocations) due to a bankart lesion, imaging form an MRI back in February of this year showed evidence. In addition due to other pains I've been having my ortho fears that I may also have a SLAP tear (result of not properly treating my bankart lesion)... DOUBLE WHAMMY! Won't know until they cut me open tomorrow. My shoulder has been injured for a good amount of time (10 years) but I've lived in fear of surgery and have been pretty good about PT (2-4x week). During the last 3 years pain has been manageable and I've been doing BJJ, weight training, and other rigorous activities that require a lot of overhead mobility and strength. However, I really feel as if my shoulder is holding me back from my goals and at 23 its now or never cause i'm not getting younger. To include the pain episodes when my shoulder does subluxate (partial dislocation) I don't want to tolerate the pain anymore and I'm deciding to go with surgery.
I fully understand going into this I may have to hang my BJJ/MMA career up at the door, but at this point i'd love to be able to swim or any overhead activity without the fear of my shoulder subluxating or making itself worse. So just like the original creator i'm going to post my updates and other milestones here, and hopefully some poor soul thinking about surgery can use the information to make an educated decision.
TL;DR Bankart Lesion + SLAP Tear deciding to get surgery because pain from partial dislocation is to much. Very active individual managed pain for about 10 years. BJJ/MMA, swimming, crossfit etc... Day before surgery.
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04-26-2017, 01:03 PM #1103
Good luck with the surgery. Don't be in a hurry to get back to lifting, the first 6 weeks of recovery are the most important. Follow your doctors orders and work closely with your PT. You'll find that your shoulder will be very tight (good thing) and that PT will work on loosening it up a bit so that you can function. Keep up on the pain meds, don't try to tough it out and you should have some Metamucil or Benefiber on hand to help keep you regular as narcotic pain meds can back you up a bit.
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04-28-2017, 09:43 PM #1104
Sorry about late post... Surgery was an overall success!
Day 1 (Surgery Day): Easiest day ever, i had an awesome anesthesiologist don't remember a thing! Had a nerve block so i couldn't feel a thing when i got home. Ate food and fell asleep.
Day 2: Nerve block wore off and pain started to set in woke me up around 4 am took some oxy and i was good to go. Pro tip write down when you take your medication so you can stay ahead of the pain. Took my arm out of the sling did some pendulums. overall pain 3 or 4 shoulder very tight.
Day 3: Woke up again with pain, getting very little sleep trying to sleep upright. Oxy is still doing wonders though. Did more pendulums and walked around a little without sling. pain getting better throughout the day overall 2-3. Dressings came off today got to see my incisions pretty cool. Just FYI i had biceps and labrum repair and it seems like where my bicep tendon was reattached is experiencing the most pain.
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05-18-2017, 06:55 AM #1105
My turn
Hey fam....... lol
Second bankart repair next Thursday. First one was 8 years ago. Doctor said don't do behind the back military press ever again, guess what i did? It felt like a stump coming out of the ground as the weights dropped behind my head and my spotter grabbed them. But at that point, it was too late. Reduced it quick. No nerve damage. Opted for surgery. SUCKS that it's the summer!
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05-18-2017, 07:18 AM #1106
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06-01-2017, 08:43 AM #1107
One week post op anniversary: Started PT today. I can bicep curl my own arm weight haha. There's no pain unless I get a sudden chill. Out of the sling at work (desk job) and at home to stretch my elbow and to relax. Other than that, I'm definitely wearing it in public. I can do cardio uphill climb on the treadmill and obviously regular walking. I'll update in a week for anyone looking at this thread.
Last edited by KBlomback; 06-01-2017 at 11:59 AM.
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02-19-2018, 04:40 PM #1108
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08-04-2018, 11:35 AM #1109
Arthroscopic surgery for Bankart lesion
Hello guys,
First of all I want to say that I have gone through this thread from the 1st till the last page and read each and every post. It's really nice to see the positivity of all of you helping and lifting each other. Everyone has gone or going through almost same situation here and many already have recovered successfully and to those who are still on the road to recovery I'd say keep your head up, you will be fine and comeback stronger than before.
@ryansmeltzer I am impressed with your positive approach and how well you hve recovered nd even competed in your first mens physique competition, hats off man. I even missed your post when you were away for a while lol.
So now I start with myself. I am a lifting freak like almost all of you here. I made really good gains last year till I was started having problems in my right shoulder. I don't know if it was tear or just a muscle strain but it was unbearable sometimes, it never felt unstable though and I kept training as i didn't want to loose them gains and also i didn't go to the doc as I knew that he will ask me to stop lifting which I can't but at one point I had to stop training for a while as I was fed up of that pain and my strength was suffering due to that. So I went to a PT and decided to take few sessions and take rest for a while. There was around 70-80% relief in pain after a month and I finally started training again after a month or half. Obviously I lost some muscles and strength and gained few lbs of fat, so I started really slow and light and slowly went up with the weights. This time I was smarter and learned to train around pain and also did some modifications in the form especially in my chest and shoulder routine to avoid pain. I was doing really well and after 8 months I got even stronger and bigger. There was still a pinching pain while doing chest or shoulders but it didn't bother me a lot , may be I was used to that, but my shoulder never felt instable.
Everything was going perfect and I was really happy with the progress until I got into a fight and dislocated the same shoulder in June 2018 and first time in my life I experienced the feeling and pain of dislocated shoulder. I regret so much now but I couldn't control myself at that time and forgot my weakness but I really didn't know that it will get this worse. I then went to the doctor who reduced it after giving general Anaesthesia as it was not possible to reduce it without as it was stuck somewhere and hurting pretty bad. So I was in sling for 2-3 weeks and I knew that I will be again out of the gym for sometime but I thought I will be back after 3 or 4 weeks till I got MRI and diagnosed with Bankart lesion and hill sachs deformity and after a research I was sure that I am going to be out of the gym for pretty long time now
I was aware of the bankart repair surgery but I still somehow wanted to avoid this. I consulted with the best shoulder specialist in the country and also the best PT + Chiropractor in the town and both of them advice to go for a surgery. It's been 1.5 month post injury and I am able to do day to day activities but my range of motion sucks, I cannot lift my arm above elbow neither laterally nor front. Its stiff and hurts badly.
So finally decided for the arthoscopic surgery on coming Tuesday i.e, 7th August and hopefully I've made a good decision and will recover fast post surgery. I will keep asking you questions and updating you. One thing I'd like to ask you at this point is that during bankart repair surgery is capsular plication always necessary or it depends how my shoulder looks like from inside?
Thanks for the motivation and positivity brahs.
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08-04-2018, 11:48 PM #1110
Follow the instructions of your surgeon to the letter. I hope that your surgeon also works with high level athletes and therefore will know about lifting. The first 6-8 weeks post op are critical so don't do anything stupid and try to test the repair - you'll be working it soon enough. When looking for a PT find one who knows about lifting and can guide you through the lifts you can do as your range of motion improves. You may also consider working with a trainer who works with high level athletes during rehab. It may cost a bit but you'll only need his services for a year. Finally, understand that surgery has risks and that your outcome maybe better or worse that the ones you've read about in this thread. Stay positive and look at your rehab as a new sport that you have to master.
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