lol then how the fukk would his competitors place today?
simple fact of the matter is no one had great legs in the 70's & there is nothing to suggest anyone from the 70's would not have brought their legs up if they had to by requirement
strictly speaking a 'warmup set ' would contribute to your performance in future sets because a cold muscle cannot work at full capacity while a work set would reduce your performance in future sets due to cumulative fatigue - BUT this is all ALL a matter of opinion just VIEWING someone else's workout.
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01-18-2015, 05:10 AM #91
Last edited by gomez26; 01-18-2015 at 05:32 AM.
"Though the concept is not scientifically validated in detail (it should be considered as a hypothesis rather than a scientific theory), it is useful from a practical standpoint. When training athletes, it is impossible to wait until scientific research provides all of the necessary knowledge." Vladmir M. Zatsiorsky, Ph.D.
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01-18-2015, 01:23 PM #92
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01-18-2015, 01:41 PM #93
That's really great....... but we already talked about and dismissed Mentzer's faux intellectual garbage in this thread.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=165930841
Mentzer was a douche on a futile endeavor for originality without functionality. And the world realised the emperor had no clothes years ago.
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01-18-2015, 04:36 PM #94
[QUOTE=Allers;1332092261]So you were there in 1980 and Dorian told you himself. Well as compelling as your insanity is I think we can all look at the photos and accept that the biggest guy on stage won a fuking bodybuilding competition. SHOCKING!
just look at mentzer's gut
arnold's legs look good here, in fact better then narrow mentzer's
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01-21-2015, 03:47 PM #95
- Join Date: May 2006
- Location: Texas: swimming in a way that you can't detect...
- Age: 36
- Posts: 46,471
- Rep Power: 19965
There are different ways of measuring it, but the most recent definitions I've heard people use has been total reps x weight.
"If a lifter performs back squats for 5 sets of 5 reps and uses 100 kilos, the volume of that exercise is 2500 kilos."
http://www.poliquingroup.com/Article...ers_Train.aspx
"Volume is, quite simply, the amount of weight times the number of reps times the number of sets"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD3KxvQ9_KY
A "quick google search" reveals multiple definitions of training volume. Like i said, what you refer to as "tonnage" is what I've been hearing more recently as "volume." I'm not saying it's more correct simply cus it's more recent, but the people i hear that definition from are people who look at weight training from a scientific perspective.
Here, for example, it's called "volume load."
http://www.strengthandconditioningre...hypertrophy/#3
"For the purposes of analyzing volume as a training variable in its own right, volume can be very simply defined as the number of sets of an exercise. Thus, in the vast majority of studies investigating the effect of training volume on hypertrophy multiple sets of an exercise are compared with single sets. In a small minority, a larger number of sets of a fixed number of repetitions are compared with a smaller number of sets of the same number of repetitions.
For controlling volume when analyzing the effects of other training variables (such as relative load, proximity to muscular failure, range of motion, rest period duration, bar speed, muscle action, or periodization type), at least three methods of equating volume between conditions are possible. Firstly and most easily, volume can be defined as the number of sets x the number of repetitions. However, this is problematic when comparing the effects of training variables that involve different absolute or relative loads, as either the total amount of weight lifted differs or the proximity to muscular failure differs or both. Consequently, other methods of equating volume have been developed. One method involves equating the mechanical work performed by reference to the load lifted (number of sets x the number of repetitions x the absolute load). This has been termed the 'volume load' (Stone et al. 1998)."
"The classic formula used to determine weight training volume is to multiply sets x reps x weight."
http://www.askthetrainer.com/weight-training-volume/
So yeah, it's not like I just made up this definition. Lots of people are using it. Problem is, lots of people call "volume" something else. Like you said, some people refer to it as the number of sets only. Some people only refer to the number of sets and reps.
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01-21-2015, 05:05 PM #96
Actually i goggled training volume and opened links on the first page, which confirmed it...thats what a quick search is.
The question is, which of those definitions did Dorian use when characterizing his type of training. In my type of definition, he did use low volume. In your's, not so much, simply because he was strong. So why would he define something as low volume if it wasn't..."Kai's traps outsize him, when you compare them to the rest of his body, he's very very thick there, it makes him unbalanced." - Lee Thompson
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01-23-2015, 07:47 PM #97
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02-20-2015, 03:23 PM #98
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02-21-2015, 10:46 PM #99
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02-22-2015, 07:25 PM #100
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02-22-2015, 11:15 PM #101
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10-23-2015, 06:47 AM #102
- Join Date: Aug 2015
- Location: Greater london, Middlesex, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
- Age: 59
- Posts: 30
- Rep Power: 0
I take it very seriously. Im on 6 sets once a week right now. Im 51. And when you understand how the body really works. You understand as a natural less really is more. And by March next year everyone will see what 30 minutes a week has done for me.
No need to spend half your life in a gym. When 30 minutes a week will give you what 10 hours wont. The body indeed has a limited recovery ability when youre a natural.
And the only people who wont get that are genetic superiors on gear. And if you want to spend 10 years to achieve what you could in 1. That is up to the individual.
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11-27-2015, 03:35 AM #103
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12-15-2015, 05:46 PM #104
I am so sad that this thread got out of hand and turned up as a match up between Arnold fans and Mentzer fans.
First, you really have to make a distinction between the human body recovery ability when under steroids versus natural training. Of course competitive bodybuilders can afford high volume training. But do natural bodybuilders afford this ? Do people that have full time jobs afford this ? I think not.
After about 15 years of (100% natural) standard volume training, I was basically stagnating and was very tired most of the time, also having a full-time job. My body basically forced me to reduce the volume and seek alternatives. I knew about HIT, I thought I should give it a try, I studied a lot about it, created my own twist (very close to the Dorian Yates style) and started practicing it. The difference was immediately noticeable (after 4 weeks), especially in the leg area but also shoulders and chest.
My gripe with this method of training is the strain it puts on the cardiovascular system. It really does work the heart more than the regular volume training. That's why I started to begin my sessions with just a few minutes of cardio, because otherwise the difference between rest heart rate and a failure set heart rate would just be uncomfortably high, even with the warm-up sets.
My training routine is now as follows:
Monday: Chest, Triceps and Calves, 3 sets to failure for chest, one per exercise, 2 sets to failure for triceps, 1-2 sets to failure for calves, on different exercises. Usually each set to failure is preceded by 1-2 warmup sets (sometimes there is no need for warmup sets if the muscles are already warmed up from previous sets).
Wednesday: Back, Biceps and Hamstrings, 3 sets to failure for back, 3 sets to failure for biceps, 2 sets to failure for hamstrings, all on different exercises
Friday: Quads and Shoulders, 3 sets to failure for quads (extensions, leg press, machine squats) and 3 sets for shoulders (one for lateral delts, one for front delts and one for rear delts, all to failure).
I can honestly say not only that I see results that were missing for a long time, but also I am more rested and I have more energy for my job. For now, I am very happy with this style of training.
However, after a HIT session I am usually much more fatigued than after a standard high-volume session, but the body recovers more quickly to a more rested and energetic state, whereas in the high-volume style I was just fatigued all the time.
Hope this helps someone.
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12-26-2015, 06:06 AM #105
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12-31-2015, 11:38 PM #106
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02-23-2016, 02:27 PM #107
missing excercizes
The complete 2 day routine can be found on Ironmamagazine.Com ... this 3 day routine is fantastic but it forgot to add... bent over rows, shrugs, concentration curls or preacher, toe presses, smith machine squats, i personally added hack squats for teardrop. Also skull crushers which works the ling head of the tricep and looks cool if you have it. That's it that's all you'll ever need. When hitting plateaus add days off for recovery and to gain strength. The beauty of this method of train8ng is twice the intensity half the workout and all the gains while feeing strong and not tired. Follow the 4-2-4 second up hold down cadence. Then find another hobby to occupy your time instead of hanging out at the gym!!! Peace be with you.
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02-23-2016, 07:21 PM #108
4 seconds eccentric = less weight lift
another problem is too much rest
i did 1 month heavy duty routine
i only gain legs
and i lost fat
but it seems that i was training for resistance
qhen i come back to other split and normal tempos 1 con and 1 ecc, i was much more weak
arms shaking
i became slow too
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08-31-2018, 05:31 AM #109
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11-09-2018, 08:03 AM #110
I'm embarrassed I even said this, I'm bad at the internet an a ignorant jackass. I just read 2 of Mentzer's books within the last 2 months, he has change my life on how to workout. These youtube videos have given me more wealth of knowledge than any muscle mag or internet has provided.
He was a genius, and a funny dude.
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11-09-2018, 01:24 PM #111"Though the concept is not scientifically validated in detail (it should be considered as a hypothesis rather than a scientific theory), it is useful from a practical standpoint. When training athletes, it is impossible to wait until scientific research provides all of the necessary knowledge." Vladmir M. Zatsiorsky, Ph.D.
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