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    Registered User RKM09's Avatar
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    Exclamation Ive been lifting for 3 years, and need some advice on finding a new progam

    So i have been lifting weights consistently for a little more than 3 years and have gained a lot of size and strength. I have followed numerous programs on bodybuilding.com and have created my own programs which have never worked well for me. I just recently finished the Arnold's program on bodybuilding.com and I really liked it. My problem is that I do not see gains anymore like I used to. I need a new program that is challenging. I was planning on starting the hell raising training program on bodybuilding.com, but there are no squats or deadlifts included so I do not know if it is a serious program. Does anyone have any program recommendations for someone like me that has been lifting for a while now??
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    Registered User tjzippy's Avatar
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    first off , what are your goals- are you looking to compete in any sport/show.?

    also what are you numbers for bench/squat/dead/ohp
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    Registered User RKM09's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tjzippy View Post
    first off , what are your goals- are you looking to compete in any sport/show.?

    also what are you numbers for bench/squat/dead/ohp
    I am trying to get more lean but I still want to gain strength. My weight for deads are 315 lbs/ bench 210/ squats 265. Im not trying to compete in any shows I just enjoy lifting and want to look better for summer. I have been looking at DC training. It seems like a lot of people have seen amazing gains from following that training style.
    Last edited by RKM09; 05-03-2014 at 08:58 AM.
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    Registered User jgreystoke's Avatar
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    Three years, and you are under 160lbs.

    Guess you weren't serious about getting more muscle than normal size manual workers/active guys who don't even lift.

    People might ask you, if you had built up enough, "are you a weightlifter?" Or "what are you on?". Or might mistake you for a bouncer if you are standing outside a club to answer your phone. What they won't ask is "what is your bodyfat?", seriously.

    Assuming you are actually going to eat enough to become more muscular than the non-lifting guys, I recommend 5 3 1, and the 5 3 1 Boring But Big assistance template for size.

    5 3 1:

    http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_..._pure_strength

    Boring But Big Challenge:

    http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...onth_challenge


    Black Iron Beast has a great calculator that helps you program your main lifts for over a dozen versions of 5 3 1:

    http://blackironbeast.com/5/3/1/calculator

    5 3 1 IS NOT A THREE MONTH PROGRAM.

    You run it for years until you are bigger/stronger than most people you meet outside of a real Powerlifting/Weightlifting/Athletic gym.

    Switching programs all the time is like doing Math for few months, then Physics, then Greek, then English Lit, then Philosophy, then Engineering, then......You'll never fcking graduate. Should be a clue.

    Lift well and prosper.

    And don't sabotage this.
    Beginners:

    FIERCE 5:

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159678631

    Beyond novice, 5 3 1 or see above:)

    Unless it is obvious to anyone who isn't blind that you lift weights, you might still benefit from a little more attention to big basic barbell exercises for enough reps:).
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  5. #5
    Registered User jgreystoke's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Camarija View Post
    It seems like you're at a strength level that will allow you to begin intermediate programs. DC training is maybe more of an advanced routine.

    I like to schedule my programs with a purpose. For example one year might look like:
    12 weeks of Strength Program -e.g. 5/3/1
    12 weeks of Hypertrophy Program -e.g. Upper/Lower
    12 weeks of Strength Program -e.g. D.C. Training
    12 weeks of Hypertrophy Program - Push/Pull/Legs
    2 weeks of Finisher Program - FST-7
    2 weeks of German Body Comp - Poliquin GBC
    That's terrible. Seriously.

    You could get all that in without departing from relentless progress on 5 3 1:

    5 3 1 is can be a hypertrophy program, see Boring But Big etc.

    It is normally run as an Upper/Lower.

    You can incorporate D.C./Doggcrap(Dante Trudeau) Rest-Pause training into it. Wendler has an article about that over at tnation:

    http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...week_challenge

    You can adjust it to Push/Pull/Legs. I often do that.

    You can use a taper and test/peaking microcycle in 5 3 1.

    I'm sure you can piss around with a two week Body Comp and not harm your progress in 5 3 1.

    Very little harm, or benefit, comes from 2 weeks of anything, except maybe a taper and test.

    What you don't do, is stop doing a great program like 5 3 1 if it is still delivering gains. If you can only progress for 12 weeks on 5 3 1, you might as well take up knitting.
    Beginners:

    FIERCE 5:

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159678631

    Beyond novice, 5 3 1 or see above:)

    Unless it is obvious to anyone who isn't blind that you lift weights, you might still benefit from a little more attention to big basic barbell exercises for enough reps:).
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    both they guys ^ are right, the key thing is progressive overload, (in any program)if would like something very simple you could try joey t's upper lower split, (cant post links at the moment sorry) or Lyle McDonald's upper lower
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    Registered User jgreystoke's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Camarija View Post
    Hey dude, you're sort of rude and off topic.
    You needed a reality check. Not training ADD.

    I was being nice.


    Originally Posted by Camarija View Post
    We both agree with Wendler that programs should be changed every 3 months or so.
    No we don't.

    You don't have to change it, or any other good program, until people ask you what you are on.

    But if you insist on changing something, on any program, you shouldn't stop the big basic stuff that is driving your gains forward. You can experiment with the assistance work all you like, so long as you are not "Majoring in the Minors", and cutting into progress with the basic stuff that actually has a chance to make you more awesome.

    Originally Posted by Camarija View Post
    We disagree where Wendler 5/3/1 should be the only modified template ever used.
    No we don't. You can do whatever program you like for the next five years, if you can make gains on it. Don't switch PROGRAMS every three months. You can experiment with assistance work on any good program, without sabotaging the program by switching to something else.

    Originally Posted by Camarija View Post
    Where we diverge is I prefer taking on more bodybuilding oriented programs during my hypertrophy mesocycles (not the 5/3/1 bodybuilding template).
    Then why don't you do that for the next couple years and pack go north of 200?

    And you surely know that you can and should train strength and hypertrophy together?

    Originally Posted by Camarija View Post
    The thought of going off of a Wendler template to you is reprehensible and illogical;
    Bollocks.

    The thought of going off ANY good PROGRAM when you are making gains on is stupid. Doesn't have to be 5 3 1, tho' it is very good. Up there with Brandon Lilly's The Cube Method, Chad Wesley Smith's Juggernaut Training, etc. You know, stuff you do for a few years to get so people think you actually lift weights.

    Originally Posted by Camarija View Post
    While I understand it is YOUR favorite, it doesn't mean it's everyone's favorite.
    It is great, and probably the easiest to program of any of the good programs for those beyond their novice gains. There are vastly more complicated programs out there. And a few simple ones. Whichever one is for you, do it for the next few years until your mother doesn't recognize you.

    I am doing Karl's Method at the moment. It is a version of 5 3 1 which is a bit more like The Texas Method:

    http://startingstrength.com/resource...ad.php?t=37209

    The reason is that I am coming back from a six month health(not lifting related) setback.

    Originally Posted by Camarija View Post
    DC training is an intermediate/advanced program that works as a strength mesocycle (3 month program) following a hypertrophy mesocycle (I'm assuming Arnold's routine is a hypertrophy volume based program), so now would be a good time to jump into it. Your lifting numbers and years of training barely put you into intermediate range, but if I were you I'd give it a shot because you'll be more motivated to try something new : http ://www .exrx. net/Testing/WeightLifting/StrengthStandards. html

    After a few months on DC type training, I would switch over to a hypertrophy mesocycle.

    *edit* Here's another link to DC training program:
    http ://www .simplyshredded. com/a-load-of-doggcrapp-is-dante-trudels-doggcrapp-training-system-the-next-big-thing-in-bodybuilding. html
    The OP doesn't need to do any kind of "Block Periodization". He is under 160lbs. For him, strength for reps and size will go together. He should be hitting strength and size simultaneously, not sequentially:

    Conjugate periodization vs block periodization.

    And he shouldn't be chopping and changing programs every three months, or even every year, if any good program that he is on is still working.

    You should get a lot of hypertrophy on DC over the next couple years. You don't have to complicate anything to the point where is loses utility. And why would you switch from DC if it is working at all? Seems like it would deserve another couple years of effort, or until it simply stopped delivering.

    Dante Trudeau's interpretation of Rest Pause training is very logical and well recommended. I am sure if you do it for the next couple years, and stop program hopping, you will make great gains on it. Gains that you could make on ANY good program if you don't sabotage it every three months in the pursuit of novelty.
    Beginners:

    FIERCE 5:

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159678631

    Beyond novice, 5 3 1 or see above:)

    Unless it is obvious to anyone who isn't blind that you lift weights, you might still benefit from a little more attention to big basic barbell exercises for enough reps:).
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    Registered User RKM09's Avatar
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    So shouldn't I just continue using Arnold Schwarzenegger's blueprint trainer since you recommend sticking with one program? Or would the DC training program be better to start and continue using for the next few years?
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    Registered User jgreystoke's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RKM09 View Post
    So shouldn't I just continue using Arnold Schwarzenegger's blueprint trainer since you recommend sticking with one program? Or would the DC training program be better to start and continue using for the next few years?
    I haven't gone through Arnold's Blueprint Trainer. And probably won't bother if it isn't really simple. All great programs are pretty damn simple. That is why they are so effective.

    Any program that is worth doing is worth doing well.

    Since you really don't seem to have a clue, no offence, I recommend this:

    http://articles.elitefts.com/trainin...-and-strength/

    After the next year or so on that, you won't be under 160lbs. If you are, then just admit that you won't allow yourself permission to grow enough to look like you even lift.

    If you do use that program properly, and eat enough to grow, then you'll have a good idea about what is really important:

    progressive training(adding weight to the bar regularly)

    for enough reps(in ANY rational rep range)

    for big exercises(squat, press, dead, row, clean etc)

    for a long enough time to become more awesome.

    There are a few decent short-term programs like Smolov Squat Cycle, Junior Smolov, German Volume Training, Advanced GVT. They are OVER-REACHING programs where you deliberately exceed your recovery ability. That should be a clue that you CAN'T do them for more than a few weeks before you would burn out. They are not designed for guys who need to do something simple for the next year or few until they look like they even lift.
    Beginners:

    FIERCE 5:

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159678631

    Beyond novice, 5 3 1 or see above:)

    Unless it is obvious to anyone who isn't blind that you lift weights, you might still benefit from a little more attention to big basic barbell exercises for enough reps:).
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  10. #10
    Registered User RKM09's Avatar
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    Okay thank you for all of your help
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