How I lost 46 Pounds of Fat and 13 Inches Off My Waist in 12 Weeks

[saurabhkhurana]

First of all kudos to your unbelievable transformation and the amount of hardwork that you've put in to get some astounding results a person can get.

For the record, I've been reading your body blog for quite some time and just wanted to ask if I should start a cyclic ketogenic diet or just high protein and carbs to the minimum (<100 grams) for optimizing fat loss. I am at 20% bf and height is 6 feet /182.8 cms. Been making a calorific deficit but the results are slow since diet wasn't on check.
I read Lyle McDonald's book "The ketogenic diet" and what i could deduce was that it has a protein sparing effect but I wanted to amplify my gains as I go leaner in the two months window I have as my summer holidays.

Your valuable advice could be very much helpful for a noob such as I.

thanks a lot

[Strobe57]

Dang man sick work. Crazy transformation, keep it up and let the haters hate on your diet...it seems to work fine. Reults don't lie.

[nobody4242]

This is an awesome thread. Glad you posted Matt. I have really enjoyed reading all your responses to all the questions and speculation. From what I see you are a very standup guy and an incredible example of discipline. While I can't convince my wife to let me get all those supplaments, I have seen more detail of your protocol through this thread and am going to be reincorporating my homerolled oats back in to the diet for some carbs and picking out some other bits of it I really like. (2-3 cardio sessions per day).

I went from 200lb thicker just weight lifting to 180lb cut in 1 week when I went through waterpolo hell-week. It consisted of 2.5hrs swimming at 5am, then weights around noon, then 2.5hrs of waterpolo drills/exercises around 3pm. Fastest I ever shed bodyfat and bodyweight. It was incredible. So i believe there is something to multiple sessions per day.

I had been on the no/low carb train for a bit, and feel the strength diminishing. And will be switching my lifting to afternoon (after I have some carbs in me) as morning fasted lifting is getting harder. And doing some High frequency HIIT in the evenings.

I've told you this before, but thanks again for the inspiration - your discipline is incredible, and admirable. And don't fret the opinions floating around in here, honestly, you're the guy with the guns and abs and health that you earned for yourself. You set out to accomplish something, got what you worked for, and you did it for you and your family, and that's all that matters.

Everyone's body is different, so I think the lesson to be learned from your results is just experiment. Find out what works, then stick to it.

Alex!! It's great to hear from you! Thank you so much for the extremely kind words! Sorry I took so long to get back to this, but the last month or so has been crazy and I got totally overwhelmed. I have been mostly staying off BodySpace, but now I am easing myself back into it. My workouts are going great and I am slowly gaining strength. I'm still navigating the whole maintenance/slow-bulk thing.

I hope you are totally crushing your goals! Whenever you get a chance, let me know how things are going. Thanks again, Man! Take care!

[Preds7509]

How much total time would you say you did cardio every day during the 90 days?

[nobody4242]

How much total time would you say you did cardio every day during the 90 days?

Thanks for the question and your interest. I just want to say to anyone still checking on this thread that I am sorry I was away for so long. I was totally overwhelmed by the attention (good and bad) and my family and I kind of freaked out. It was completely unexpected by me. Again, I'm sorry and I will try to get to some of the past questions when I can.

I really want to thank all those who have had such positive and kind things to say on here. I really do appreciate it. I love how people at all different fitness levels come together on BodySpace and encourage each other. Where else would you find a huge 260 lb bodybuilder hanging out with a chubby engineer like I was when I started. We all need encouragement!

I did 71 hours of cardio over the 12 weeks, so that works out to an average of 51 minutes a day, broken up into 2 or 3, and sometimes 4, sessions each day. Please see post #22 and #27 for more detail on my cardio.

Thank you again for your interest, and I wish you the best! Have an awesome day!

[TuneInfinity]

From what I've been told by athletic trainers is 2lb a week max you can lose to be healthy during weight loss. Not sure how that plays out or if anyone can confirm. But me being my size if I ate 900 calories a day, I think I'd pass out.

[at40]

Hi! Transformation of your admiration! Question. You have done that you have not sagged skin on the abdomen and flanks. Alexander. Russia.

[AlejandroRY1]

Incredible work, a little bit risky for me but definitely doable. You got those Abs in just 12 weeks?

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

Thanks for the question and your interest. I just want to say to anyone still checking on this thread that I am sorry I was away for so long. I was totally overwhelmed by the attention (good and bad) and my family and I kind of freaked out. It was completely unexpected by me. Again, I'm sorry and I will try to get to some of the past questions when I can.

I really want to thank all those who have had such positive and kind things to say on here. I really do appreciate it. I love how people at all different fitness levels come together on BodySpace and encourage each other. Where else would you find a huge 260 lb bodybuilder hanging out with a chubby engineer like I was when I started. We all need encouragement!

I did 71 hours of cardio over the 12 weeks, so that works out to an average of 51 minutes a day, broken up into 2 or 3, and sometimes 4, sessions each day. Please see post #22 and #27 for more detail on my cardio.

Thank you again for your interest, and I wish you the best! Have an awesome day!

I am having trouble at 1800 calories per day. I've commented a couple times and now I would like to ask a couple questions...maybe you can help me.

1) LISS vs HIIT - I workout while I'm fasting, so a 25 min. jog should be good? Everyone is all over HIIT and I just don't see why it's so great. Overall, which one do you think worked better for you (regardless if you were fasting or eating)?

2) Did you ever try MCT Oil? I've read that in the morning having some MCT oil in your coffee can reduce hunger pains during your fasting period?

3) Basically, I just need ALL your tips on hunger pains. I get so hungry and then I eat. I can get 2200-2300 calories and feel satisfied but 1800, which is just a 400-500 calorie drop, is SO hard for me. Any tips you could give me would be greatly appreciated.

I've said this a couple times, but congratulations on the transformation. Don't be afraid of the attention you get!! You can help A LOT of people like me.

[Mattash2g]

eat clen and tren hard and you too can achieve this

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

eat clen and tren hard and you too can achieve this

You seriously think it's impossible in 3 months? The way he ate, all the supplements he took and the hard work he put in?

You sir, are one jealous assh***

[jokita23]

Thank you first of all for taking the time to help us all and answer our questions.!! I wanted to ask you if u could go more in depth about what exact workouts u were doing, not just the body part. I was curious about your rep/set numbers also.

[nobody4242]

I am having trouble at 1800 calories per day. I've commented a couple times and now I would like to ask a couple questions...maybe you can help me.

1) LISS vs HIIT - I workout while I'm fasting, so a 25 min. jog should be good? Everyone is all over HIIT and I just don't see why it's so great. Overall, which one do you think worked better for you (regardless if you were fasting or eating)?

2) Did you ever try MCT Oil? I've read that in the morning having some MCT oil in your coffee can reduce hunger pains during your fasting period?

3) Basically, I just need ALL your tips on hunger pains. I get so hungry and then I eat. I can get 2200-2300 calories and feel satisfied but 1800, which is just a 400-500 calorie drop, is SO hard for me. Any tips you could give me would be greatly appreciated.

I've said this a couple times, but congratulations on the transformation. Don't be afraid of the attention you get!! You can help A LOT of people like me.

Hey! It's great to hear from you again! Thank you for your kindness and for your positive influence here on BodyBuilding.com. I really appreciate it.

1) LISS vs HIIT - I don't know which one is better, so I did both. I really like the idea of HIIT, and I like that you can squeeze an intense workout into a short period of time. But it also makes sense that a longer period at a slower pace, like LISS, might be more likely to burn fat. I sure don't know which one burns fat better! I will say that if you are doing the Intermittent Fasting (as described on leangains.com), then I would do the LISS cardio in the 12th to 16th hour of the fast period, since that is what is recommended on leangains.com. Once I discovered Intermittent Fasting, that is mostly what I did for cardio. I ate from 8AM to 4PM, so I did a 50 minute LISS cardio session around 5:30AM. It seemed to work well. I also did a 5 minute High Frequency HIIT (6 second all-out effort / 9 second moderate effort) cardio session late at night before bed, just to burn a few extra calories, suppress my hunger, and give my heart a quick workout. All my cardio was done on a stationary bike, since that is what I had in my basement.

2) I've never heard of MCT oil. I am all for natural ways to reduce hunger. It sounds like the kind of thing I would try (after doing some online research).

3) The hunger pangs are pretty much the hardest part of transforming. Cardio sucks as well, but the hunger can be relentless and is what causes most people to fail in their efforts to transform. Water was my first line of defense against hunger pangs. I drank water constantly throughout the day, up to about two gallons daily. Since I was eating from 8AM to 4PM, the afternoons and evenings were really tough. Doing a quick cardio session is a good way reduce hunger. It doesn't take much, just 5 or 10 minutes will help quell hunger pangs for an hour or two. Coffee and tea are good ways to keep your mouth busy and your mind off food. During the last month of my transformation, I bought a 30 day trial membership to Snap Fitness, so I could go do extra workouts at night. My regular gym is near my work, so I wanted a place to go close to home at night. I would just do abs and calves mostly, but it kept me occupied and the exercise helped reduce my hunger as well. Getting to bed early is very helpful also. Those late night hunger pangs can be brutal, so if you can fall asleep before they come, you don't have to deal with them.

I hope this was helpful. If you are looking to get lean, I highly recommend you go right to the source and cut out the middle man. Check out leangains.com. That is where I learned about Intermittent Fasting. The information is very detailed and they explain it way better than I ever could.

Thanks again, Man. Have a great day!

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

Hey! It's great to hear from you again! Thank you for your kindness and for your positive influence here on BodyBuilding.com. I really appreciate it.

1) LISS vs HIIT - I don't know which one is better, so I did both. I really like the idea of HIIT, and I like that you can squeeze an intense workout into a short period of time. But it also makes sense that a longer period at a slower pace, like LISS, might be more likely to burn fat. I sure don't know which one burns fat better! I will say that if you are doing the Intermittent Fasting (as described on leangains.com), then I would do the LISS cardio in the 12th to 16th hour of the fast period, since that is what is recommended on leangains.com. Once I discovered Intermittent Fasting, that is mostly what I did for cardio. I ate from 8AM to 4PM, so I did a 50 minute LISS cardio session around 5:30AM. It seemed to work well. I also did a 5 minute High Frequency HIIT (6 second all-out effort / 9 second moderate effort) cardio session late at night before bed, just to burn a few extra calories, suppress my hunger, and give my heart a quick workout. All my cardio was done on a stationary bike, since that is what I had in my basement.

2) I've never heard of MCT oil. I am all for natural ways to reduce hunger. It sounds like the kind of thing I would try (after doing some online research).

3) The hunger pangs are pretty much the hardest part of transforming. Cardio sucks as well, but the hunger can be relentless and is what causes most people to fail in their efforts to transform. Water was my first line of defense against hunger pangs. I drank water constantly throughout the day, up to about two gallons daily. Since I was eating from 8AM to 4PM, the afternoons and evenings were really tough. Doing a quick cardio session is a good way reduce hunger. It doesn't take much, just 5 or 10 minutes will help quell hunger pangs for an hour or two. Coffee and tea are good ways to keep your mouth busy and your mind off food. During the last month of my transformation, I bought a 30 day trial membership to Snap Fitness, so I could go do extra workouts at night. My regular gym is near my work, so I wanted a place to go close to home at night. I would just do abs and calves mostly, but it kept me occupied and the exercise helped reduce my hunger as well. Getting to bed early is very helpful also. Those late night hunger pangs can be brutal, so if you can fall asleep before they come, you don't have to deal with them.

I hope this was helpful. If you are looking to get lean, I highly recommend you go right to the source and cut out the middle man. Check out leangains.com. That is where I learned about Intermittent Fasting. The information is very detailed and they explain it way better than I ever could.

Thanks again, Man. Have a great day!

A bunch of AWESOME information man! I'm trying to get my eating window from 2 PM to 8 PM... I've heard of people doing it longer so I might stretch it from 2 PM to 10 PM to start. I wake up and have a workout first thing so it will be rough, I think, working out on a completely empty stomach.

I found MCT (medium chain triglycerides) are largely in coconut oil so I just went and bought some of that. I had been cooking with olive oil. Hopefully it helps curb the appetite a bit.

I'm definitely with you on the LISS thing. I think at a deficit, when you're already extremely tired, LISS is the way to go. My heart rate gets up there pretty fast when I'm not getting these extra calories. I think I'd just increase chances of injury if I were to do HIIT.

Thanks for your response! Don't listen to the haters.

[deadrats]

first things first, congrats on losing the weight and gaining the muscle and well written article.

having said that, i would never, ever follow such a plan. you make claims with regards to some of your stats, such as heart rate and cholesterol but i'm left wondering how do you know, did you have blood work done to measure you're cholesterol? is that LDL or HDL?

going on a calorie starvation diet as you did will certainly help you lose fat, especially with all that working out, but 190 grams of protein a day?!? everything i have ever read says that the average person can only metabolize about 100 grams a day and the rest gets flushed out by the kidneys and prolonged high protein diets lead to stones. i've read this in college level biology books, not some half-baked website.

furthermore, all those supplements is crazy. first of all it ends up sounding like a plug for the supplement manufacturer, but more importantly it puts a tremendous burden on your liver.

reading through your article reminded me of a show i once saw on tv where this guy took one of these 30 day change your body challenges but he did it the no expense spared way: he had a personal trainer who was a pro-bodybuilder, a doctor that ran one of those "youth rejuvenation" clinics, a medical doctor that monitored his blood work on a weekly basis and i can't remember who else. the youth clinic doctor gave this guy a boat load of supplements to take, something like 30 pills and by the second week his medical doctor informed him that he was concerned because the blood work showed that his liver reading where abnormal.

the wife, who wasn't on-board with the plan from the start made the guy ask the pro-bodybuilder his opinion. when the bodybuilder saw all the supplements the guy was taking said something along the lines of "of course your liver is abnormal, i'm a professional bodybuilder and i don't take anywhere near the stuff you're taking".

along the same lines i used to work for a guy that who had a son that was a bodybuilder. one day i was in the guys kitchen and see a bunch of supplements, just all kinds of stuff. i ask him if his son is taking all that stuff and he says "my son, no, i take all of these every day", this guy was pumping himself full of all sorts of supplements and he rationalized it as "it's natural and it's over the counter so it must be alright".

he died by his 60th birthday and the last 10 years of his life he was sick as a dog, he suffered unbelievably and his family with him, he eventually died of multiple cancers.

i personally avoid almost all supplements, these companies get rich, they make millions selling their garbage to the unsuspecting public, under the veil that somehow because it's a "supplement" it's good for you. when the FDA tried to regulate the industry years ago they spent millions on lobbying to prevent laws from passing that would require the same quality controls for testing and effectiveness that traditional medications require.

it's a disgrace that these firms are allowed to get that big and that wealthy and it's all perfectly legal as long as they put that ridiculous warning on their label "this product is not meant to diagnose, cure or treat any disease", or whatever the actual warning is. they put it in small letters on the side of the bottle and then in big letters they make some absurd claim how the active ingredients do any number of things.

i would strongly suggest that anyone that reads your article, thank you for taking the time to write it and then ignore most of it. if you want really fast results, skip all those supplements, that crazy fasting, that silly protein/carb/fat ratio, the insane workouts and just hit the basic exercises hard and do a cycle or 2 of some good old fashioned Deca, nothing crazy, the recommended dosages, do a simply cycle and that's it and then just keep training.

you're be healthier in the long run than what the OP proposes.

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

first things first, congrats on losing the weight and gaining the muscle and well written article.

having said that, i would never, ever follow such a plan. you make claims with regards to some of your stats, such as heart rate and cholesterol but i'm left wondering how do you know, did you have blood work done to measure you're cholesterol? is that LDL or HDL?

going on a calorie starvation diet as you did will certainly help you lose fat, especially with all that working out, but 190 grams of protein a day?!? everything i have ever read says that the average person can only metabolize about 100 grams a day and the rest gets flushed out by the kidneys and prolonged high protein diets lead to stones. i've read this in college level biology books, not some half-baked website.

furthermore, all those supplements is crazy. first of all it ends up sounding like a plug for the supplement manufacturer, but more importantly it puts a tremendous burden on your liver.

reading through your article reminded me of a show i once saw on tv where this guy took one of these 30 day change your body challenges but he did it the no expense spared way: he had a personal trainer who was a pro-bodybuilder, a doctor that ran one of those "youth rejuvenation" clinics, a medical doctor that monitored his blood work on a weekly basis and i can't remember who else. the youth clinic doctor gave this guy a boat load of supplements to take, something like 30 pills and by the second week his medical doctor informed him that he was concerned because the blood work showed that his liver reading where abnormal.

the wife, who wasn't on-board with the plan from the start made the guy ask the pro-bodybuilder his opinion. when the bodybuilder saw all the supplements the guy was taking said something along the lines of "of course your liver is abnormal, i'm a professional bodybuilder and i don't take anywhere near the stuff you're taking".

along the same lines i used to work for a guy that who had a son that was a bodybuilder. one day i was in the guys kitchen and see a bunch of supplements, just all kinds of stuff. i ask him if his son is taking all that stuff and he says "my son, no, i take all of these every day", this guy was pumping himself full of all sorts of supplements and he rationalized it as "it's natural and it's over the counter so it must be alright".

he died by his 60th birthday and the last 10 years of his life he was sick as a dog, he suffered unbelievably and his family with him, he eventually died of multiple cancers.

i personally avoid almost all supplements, these companies get rich, they make millions selling their garbage to the unsuspecting public, under the veil that somehow because it's a "supplement" it's good for you. when the FDA tried to regulate the industry years ago they spent millions on lobbying to prevent laws from passing that would require the same quality controls for testing and effectiveness that traditional medications require.

it's a disgrace that these firms are allowed to get that big and that wealthy and it's all perfectly legal as long as they put that ridiculous warning on their label "this product is not meant to diagnose, cure or treat any disease", or whatever the actual warning is. they put it in small letters on the side of the bottle and then in big letters they make some absurd claim how the active ingredients do any number of things.

i would strongly suggest that anyone that reads your article, thank you for taking the time to write it and then ignore most of it. if you want really fast results, skip all those supplements, that crazy fasting, that silly protein/carb/fat ratio, the insane workouts and just hit the basic exercises hard and do a cycle or 2 of some good old fashioned Deca, nothing crazy, the recommended dosages, do a simply cycle and that's it and then just keep training.

you're be healthier in the long run than what the OP proposes.

Solid first post and rant.

Not serious. Enjoy being in the red!

[Austinbruso94]

first things first, congrats on losing the weight and gaining the muscle and well written article.

having said that, i would never, ever follow such a plan. you make claims with regards to some of your stats, such as heart rate and cholesterol but i'm left wondering how do you know, did you have blood work done to measure you're cholesterol? is that LDL or HDL?

going on a calorie starvation diet as you did will certainly help you lose fat, especially with all that working out, but 190 grams of protein a day?!? everything i have ever read says that the average person can only metabolize about 100 grams a day and the rest gets flushed out by the kidneys and prolonged high protein diets lead to stones. i've read this in college level biology books, not some half-baked website.

furthermore, all those supplements is crazy. first of all it ends up sounding like a plug for the supplement manufacturer, but more importantly it puts a tremendous burden on your liver.

reading through your article reminded me of a show i once saw on tv where this guy took one of these 30 day change your body challenges but he did it the no expense spared way: he had a personal trainer who was a pro-bodybuilder, a doctor that ran one of those "youth rejuvenation" clinics, a medical doctor that monitored his blood work on a weekly basis and i can't remember who else. the youth clinic doctor gave this guy a boat load of supplements to take, something like 30 pills and by the second week his medical doctor informed him that he was concerned because the blood work showed that his liver reading where abnormal.

the wife, who wasn't on-board with the plan from the start made the guy ask the pro-bodybuilder his opinion. when the bodybuilder saw all the supplements the guy was taking said something along the lines of "of course your liver is abnormal, i'm a professional bodybuilder and i don't take anywhere near the stuff you're taking".

along the same lines i used to work for a guy that who had a son that was a bodybuilder. one day i was in the guys kitchen and see a bunch of supplements, just all kinds of stuff. i ask him if his son is taking all that stuff and he says "my son, no, i take all of these every day", this guy was pumping himself full of all sorts of supplements and he rationalized it as "it's natural and it's over the counter so it must be alright".

he died by his 60th birthday and the last 10 years of his life he was sick as a dog, he suffered unbelievably and his family with him, he eventually died of multiple cancers.

i personally avoid almost all supplements, these companies get rich, they make millions selling their garbage to the unsuspecting public, under the veil that somehow because it's a "supplement" it's good for you. when the FDA tried to regulate the industry years ago they spent millions on lobbying to prevent laws from passing that would require the same quality controls for testing and effectiveness that traditional medications require.

it's a disgrace that these firms are allowed to get that big and that wealthy and it's all perfectly legal as long as they put that ridiculous warning on their label "this product is not meant to diagnose, cure or treat any disease", or whatever the actual warning is. they put it in small letters on the side of the bottle and then in big letters they make some absurd claim how the active ingredients do any number of things.

i would strongly suggest that anyone that reads your article, thank you for taking the time to write it and then ignore most of it. if you want really fast results, skip all those supplements, that crazy fasting, that silly protein/carb/fat ratio, the insane workouts and just hit the basic exercises hard and do a cycle or 2 of some good old fashioned Deca, nothing crazy, the recommended dosages, do a simply cycle and that's it and then just keep training.

you're be healthier in the long run than what the OP proposes.

Negged for telling us not to take supplements but to turn to illegal steroids. Negged for being a retard, you won't find 1 bodybuilder that looks good eating 100 grams of protein, negged for providing nothing but anecdotal evidence for your claims. Negged for giving advice when you have no pictures of your physique. Have fun in red.

[deadrats]

Negged for telling us not to take supplements but to turn to illegal steroids. Negged for being a retard, you won't find 1 bodybuilder that looks good eating 100 grams of protein, negged for providing nothing but anecdotal evidence for your claims. Negged for giving advice when you have no pictures of your physique. Have fun in red.

just because someone "negs" me doesn't mean i'm wrong, it just means i read more than most people.

here's what WebMD, a site i trust way more than any website run by a company has a financial interest in selling supplements such as protein powders has to say:

webmd dot com/diet/healthy-kitchen-11/how-much-protein

note that the article i linked to was reviewed by a Medical Doctor, you know someone that went through 4 years of undergrad school, 4 years of med school, 2 years of a residency and 1 year of specialty training.

as for being retarded, all i know is that i was a physics and computer science major in college, i'm a certified unix sys admin, i'm a certified medical assistant, a certified phlebotomist and a certified ekg tech, not bad for a "retard".

i have also worked in the oncology department of a large hospital and in the psych ward of another hospital. so if anyone wants to "neg" me, go right ahead.

as for the steroid advice, anabolic steroids are not illegal per se, they are illegal without a doctor's prescription, you can always find a doctor to do a blood test and interpret the results as you having a testosterone deficit and give you a prescription.

here's the reality, the function of testosterone, among other things, is in protein synthesis, the normal amounts of testosterone in the average human body is sufficient to promote the metabolism of roughly 50 grams of protein in an average male. with intense exercise you can increase the levels of testosterone in your body to the maximum normal range, which is sufficient for you to use about 100 grams of protein in a 24 hour period. the rest is either stored or more likely in the case of continued high protein intact sans the required anabolic hormones needed to metabolize said protein will lead to kidney damage:

webmd dot com/diet/news/20030317/high-protein-diets-can-hurt-kidneys

i would go on and explain why high protein diets also lead to kidney stones, but judging by the responses i have received so far and the 990+ negative points (LOL) it's obvious that most people have zero idea what a calcium ion bridge is and what role they play how muscles work (bravo if someone actually googles the term and expands their knowledge).

i'm going to simplify this for your guys, because it's obvious that most of you have never taken a college level chemistry class, have never had an extensive conversation with an actual doctor nor even understand how a muscle actually works* but protein is only one component of a whole slew of compounds that are needed to increase muscle size: protein, testosterone, ATP, calcium and a number of other things.

*i have been lurking in this forum for years, as i have been on similar forums around the web and i've always had a good laugh at some of the most ridiculous things many seem to believe, among the most egregious:

1) that lifting weights somehow causes small tears in muscle fiber and that it's the healing of these tears that results in muscles getting bigger. this one seems to have a number of different variations but the basic gist is the same. all i have to say is that anyone that believes this should spend a couple of hundred bucks, go to the local community college and take a college level anatomy and physiology course and of course pass it so that you actually understand what you are taught.

2) along a similar vein there seems to be a very basic misunderstanding of some fundamental physics principles, especially as they apply to weight lifting. i read something by some guy on this forum a couple of says ago that was absurd, this guy had leaned the basic physics equation for Work and it was obvious he didn't understand the implications as he actually made the claim that if you aren't moving a weight then no work is being done, i couldn't stop laughing long enough to write in and explain to him why he was sadly mistaken.

the really atrocious thing was that this guy had a rep in the thousands.

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

[deadrats]

what a well thought out rebuttal, perhaps you should write a book with your well articulated theories.

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

just because someone "negs" me doesn't mean i'm wrong, it just means i read more than most people.

here's what WebMD, a site i trust way more than any website run by a company has a financial interest in selling supplements such as protein powders has to say:

webmd dot com/diet/healthy-kitchen-11/how-much-protein

note that the article i linked to was reviewed by a Medical Doctor, you know someone that went through 4 years of undergrad school, 4 years of med school, 2 years of a residency and 1 year of specialty training.

as for being retarded, all i know is that i was a physics and computer science major in college, i'm a certified unix sys admin, i'm a certified medical assistant, a certified phlebotomist and a certified ekg tech, not bad for a "retard".

i have also worked in the oncology department of a large hospital and in the psych ward of another hospital. so if anyone wants to "neg" me, go right ahead.

as for the steroid advice, anabolic steroids are not illegal per se, they are illegal without a doctor's prescription, you can always find a doctor to do a blood test and interpret the results as you having a testosterone deficit and give you a prescription.

here's the reality, the function of testosterone, among other things, is in protein synthesis, the normal amounts of testosterone in the average human body is sufficient to promote the metabolism of roughly 50 grams of protein in an average male. with intense exercise you can increase the levels of testosterone in your body to the maximum normal range, which is sufficient for you to use about 100 grams of protein in a 24 hour period. the rest is either stored or more likely in the case of continued high protein intact sans the required anabolic hormones needed to metabolize said protein will lead to kidney damage:

webmd dot com/diet/news/20030317/high-protein-diets-can-hurt-kidneys

i would go on and explain why high protein diets also lead to kidney stones, but judging by the responses i have received so far and the 990+ negative points (LOL) it's obvious that most people have zero idea what a calcium ion bridge is and what role they play how muscles work (bravo if someone actually googles the term and expands their knowledge).

i'm going to simplify this for your guys, because it's obvious that most of you have never taken a college level chemistry class, have never had an extensive conversation with an actual doctor nor even understand how a muscle actually works* but protein is only one component of a whole slew of compounds that are needed to increase muscle size: protein, testosterone, ATP, calcium and a number of other things.

*i have been lurking in this forum for years, as i have been on similar forums around the web and i've always had a good laugh at some of the most ridiculous things many seem to believe, among the most egregious:

1) that lifting weights somehow causes small tears in muscle fiber and that it's the healing of these tears that results in muscles getting bigger. this one seems to have a number of different variations but the basic gist is the same. all i have to say is that anyone that believes this should spend a couple of hundred bucks, go to the local community college and take a college level anatomy and physiology course and of course pass it so that you actually understand what you are taught.

2) along a similar vein there seems to be a very basic misunderstanding of some fundamental physics principles, especially as they apply to weight lifting. i read something by some guy on this forum a couple of says ago that was absurd, this guy had leaned the basic physics equation for Work and it was obvious he didn't understand the implications as he actually made the claim that if you aren't moving a weight then no work is being done, i couldn't stop laughing long enough to write in and explain to him why he was sadly mistaken.

the really atrocious thing was that this guy had a rep in the thousands.

[deadrats]

another solid rebuttal with loads of indisputable science, well you guys really showed me the error of my ways.

everyone here that has ever taken a college level bio-chem class, raise your hands.

i think i'm going to be safe in concluding that my hand was the only one up.

you guys feel free to believe anything you want, and to the OP, by all means keep taking all those supplements and more, the big supplement companies need some more money.

just do yourself a favor, after about 6 months of taking that supplement regiment do yourself a favor and get a physical from a reputable doctor and make sure that the blood work contains a CBC, a Hepatic Function Panel, and a Total Protein and A/G Ratio. The whole thing may cost you close to a grand if you don't have insurance but if you're serious about taking that many supplements and that much protein, you should seriously consider it.

now i'll leave you guys to your regularly scheduled posting of Picard GIFs.

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

another solid rebuttal with loads of indisputable science, well you guys really showed me the error of my ways.

I never saw you once list a reputable source. I'm sorry, WebMD does NOT count.

everyone here that has ever taken a college level bio-chem class, raise your hands.

You obviously didn't absorb any of it and even if you did, you're 43 years old which means you took it probably 20 years ago? I'm guessing a lot has changed since then. You need to keep up with your research.

you guys feel free to believe anything you want, and to the OP, by all means keep taking all those supplements and more, the big supplement companies need some more money.

just do yourself a favor, after about 6 months of taking that supplement regiment do yourself a favor and get a physical from a reputable doctor and make sure that the blood work contains a CBC, a Hepatic Function Panel, and a Total Protein and A/G Ratio. The whole thing may cost you close to a grand if you don't have insurance but if you're serious about taking that many supplements and that much protein, you should seriously consider it.

So, don't give supplement companies money for nutrients our bodies need but give a grand to doctors for tests we don't need? Sound logic.

now i'll leave you guys to your regularly scheduled posting of Picard GIFs.

Please do.

[deadrats]

I never saw you once list a reputable source. I'm sorry, WebMD does NOT count.

WebMD doesn't count? you're right, why would anyone believe anything posted on a site where the articles are reviewed by MD's, what do they know anyway, the guy at the gym knows way more than a doctor.

i'm wondering what would you consider a "reputable" source?

You obviously didn't absorb any of it and even if you did, you're 43 years old which means you took it probably 20 years ago? I'm guessing a lot has changed since then. You need to keep up with your research.

I did take it 15 years ago, when i took my physics classes, the basic science doesn't change, sorry. i also took refresher courses in basic pharmacology for my certifications not 3 years ago, the basic chem is still the same.

and there's so much misinformation in this forum, and quite frankly every single one like this one, that it would take years to correct all the mistakes people make. but more importantly is the fact that the people that believe most of this garbage refuse to learn, as i stated i worked in 2 large hospitals, i've had the chance to talk numerous doctors and work with numerous patients; i'm reminded of a conversation i had in a gym with a personal trainer that was saying many things like what i see on this board and in this very thread. i tried to point out to him that his very premise was flawed and why, i showed him college texts, i told him what doctors have told me, his response "oh, well i'm a certified personal trainer, i know more than all of them".

LOL, i just love hearing crap like this.

So, don't give supplement companies money for nutrients our bodies need but give a grand to doctors for tests we don't need? Sound logic.

this is the type of dumb reasoning that permeates the body building community. many of the so-called "nutrients" that your body needs your body is capable of making on it's own from the food you eat. there is a limit as to how many "nutrients" your body can use and the rest is flushed out as waste. supplements, as their name suggests are only useful if you have a deficit of some nutrient due to your dietary habits.

as yourself this, if these supplements are so desperately needed on a daily basis then how did mankind thrive prior to their introduction maybe 50 or so years ago? how do people live long normal, healthy lives in places like the mountains of greece and russia where they live to be 100+ years old, without all these "much needed supplements".

the reason i advise the blood work is because when you take as many supplements as the OP indicated he's taking you put a tremendous strain on your liver and kidneys, the blood work if you are abusing your body like he's doing.

i suggest you look up what LD50 is and what the LD50 of the active ingredients in the supplements he, and you, are taking, then calculate how much you are consuming on a daily basis.

i'm going to do you a favor, i looked up the active ingredients of Neogenix Body Forge 2.0, a supplement you take. one of the active ingredients is Quercetin Dihydrate, 1 scoop of Neogenix Body Forge 2.0, a 7.5gram serving contains 125mg of Quercetin Dihydrate, with me so far?

i pulled the MSDS (material safety data sheet) for Quercetin Dihydrate and looked up the chronic and acute toxicity and the LD50. for those that don't know, LD50 is used to determine the lethality of a compound and is measured in grams per kilogram of body weight. just so you understand if a compound has an LD50 of 1g/kg that means that it takes 1 gram per kilogram of body weight to kill half a given test population, usually rats, can be mice or rabbits.

the LD50 of Quercetin Dihydrate is 161mg/kg of body weight in rats and 159mg/kg of body weight for mice.

the following quote is directly from the MSDS for Quercetin Dihydrate:

Potential Acute Health Effects:
Hazardous in case of ingestion, of inhalation. Slightly hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of eye contact
(irritant). Severe over-exposure can result in death.
Potential Chronic Health Effects:
CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: 3 (Not classifiable for human.) by IARC.
MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Mutagenic for mammalian ****tic cells. Mutagenic for bacteria and/or yeast.
TERATOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available.
DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Not available.
Repeated exposure to a highly toxic material may produce general deterioration of health by an accumulation in
one or many human organs.

you can read the rest here:

www dot chemmark dot net/msds/xMSDS-Quercetin_Dihydrate-9924781 dot pdf

this is just one ingredient in one supplement you are taking.

And I'm the retard?

[TenTwo]

WebMD doesn't count? you're right, why would anyone believe anything posted on a site where the articles are reviewed by MD's, what do they know anyway, the guy at the gym knows way more than a doctor.

i'm wondering what would you consider a "reputable" source?



I did take it 15 years ago, when i took my physics classes, the basic science doesn't change, sorry. i also took refresher courses in basic pharmacology for my certifications not 3 years ago, the basic chem is still the same.

and there's so much misinformation in this forum, and quite frankly every single one like this one, that it would take years to correct all the mistakes people make. but more importantly is the fact that the people that believe most of this garbage refuse to learn, as i stated i worked in 2 large hospitals, i've had the chance to talk numerous doctors and work with numerous patients; i'm reminded of a conversation i had in a gym with a personal trainer that was saying many things like what i see on this board and in this very thread. i tried to point out to him that his very premise was flawed and why, i showed him college texts, i told him what doctors have told me, his response "oh, well i'm a certified personal trainer, i know more than all of them".

LOL, i just love hearing crap like this.




this is the type of dumb reasoning that permeates the body building community. many of the so-called "nutrients" that your body needs your body is capable of making on it's own from the food you eat. there is a limit as to how many "nutrients" your body can use and the rest is flushed out as waste. supplements, as their name suggests are only useful if you have a deficit of some nutrient due to your dietary habits.

as yourself this, if these supplements are so desperately needed on a daily basis then how did mankind thrive prior to their introduction maybe 50 or so years ago? how do people live long normal, healthy lives in places like the mountains of greece and russia where they live to be 100+ years old, without all these "much needed supplements".

the reason i advise the blood work is because when you take as many supplements as the OP indicated he's taking you put a tremendous strain on your liver and kidneys, the blood work if you are abusing your body like he's doing.

i suggest you look up what LD50 is and what the LD50 of the active ingredients in the supplements he, and you, are taking, then calculate how much you are consuming on a daily basis.

i'm going to do you a favor, i looked up the active ingredients of Neogenix Body Forge 2.0, a supplement you take. one of the active ingredients is Quercetin Dihydrate, 1 scoop of Neogenix Body Forge 2.0, a 7.5gram serving contains 125mg of Quercetin Dihydrate, with me so far?

i pulled the MSDS (material safety data sheet) for Quercetin Dihydrate and looked up the chronic and acute toxicity and the LD50. for those that don't know, LD50 is used to determine the lethality of a compound and is measured in grams per kilogram of body weight. just so you understand if a compound has an LD50 of 1g/kg that means that it takes 1 gram per kilogram of body weight to kill half a given test population, usually rats, can be mice or rabbits.

the LD50 of Quercetin Dihydrate is 161mg/kg of body weight in rats and 159mg/kg of body weight for mice.

the following quote is directly from the MSDS for Quercetin Dihydrate:

Potential Acute Health Effects:
Hazardous in case of ingestion, of inhalation. Slightly hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of eye contact
(irritant). Severe over-exposure can result in death.
Potential Chronic Health Effects:
CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: 3 (Not classifiable for human.) by IARC.
MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Mutagenic for mammalian ****tic cells. Mutagenic for bacteria and/or yeast.
TERATOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available.
DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Not available.
Repeated exposure to a highly toxic material may produce general deterioration of health by an accumulation in
one or many human organs.

you can read the rest here:

www dot chemmark dot net/msds/xMSDS-Quercetin_Dihydrate-9924781 dot pdf

this is just one ingredient in one supplement you are taking.

And I'm the retard?

Yes.

SDS's (formally known as MSDS's btw, welcome to 2014) routinely list exaggerated potential effects based on unknowns or limited testing. It's standard practice for CYA. Anyone who studies chemicals and the effects they can have on the human body can tell you that almost all chemicals are toxic in the wrong dose, and many chemicals, including the most dangerous ones listed under OSHA's Expanded Standard chemical list can be completely harmless at the correct dose. If you are going to throw out the LD50 on a rat, you should then give the anticipated or tested LD50 for humans, which is much greater; not just half the info to strengthen a paper thin argument. Formaldehyde is a known category 1 carcinogen (much more dangerous than the category 3/carc for animals/unknown for humans you listed) and the LD50 at an intravenous dose of 87 mg/kg in rats, yet a dried shi-take mushroom can have as high as 400 mg/kg...yet health experts around the world are not looking to ban the popular mushroom...why? Because that mg/kg LD50 for rats is nowhere even in the same ball park as it is for humans, and without explaining that (or understanding that) in your post above, you paint a dire picture when in fact someone like me who knows better can see straight through your weak google research.