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  1. #91
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  2. #92
    Road Trippin with allies Harrock's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by geoffers12 View Post
    hey guys i had a question, i don't have much insight into the managerial side of football, but with ManU looking for a coach, everyone wants to take their best guess at who is next....

    not saying it would be a good idea, but is there a large difference in a coach for an international side vs a club side? i imagine its a fair amount with scouting and other "big picture" and"whats best for the club" sort of things...always curious why someone wouldn't go after someone similar to Kilinnsmen who currently is coaching the US....
    Klinsman tried at Bayern, it was a disaster. Managing at International level is a lot less involved.

    Originally Posted by Fabzulous View Post
    @Harrock

    Guus Hiddink was available wasn't he? He signed with Netherlands in March.

    I just feel as if Moyes has been going at the same rate all season, there haven't been any signs of improvement which is why I don't understand the board has backed him all season until now. I'm assuming you're right about the 4th clause and I guess that's good reason but had we cut him out mid season and got someone like Hiddink I think we'd be in a better position than we are now.
    Did Hiddink want to coach a club? Did he want to take over mid season? Did he want to coach in England? Was he interested in United? Heynecks was available too presumably. He could likely have done a bit better.

    We appointmented Moyes, and gave him the shot he deserved. Just didn't work out. Can someone give me a few examples of a team bringing in a coach mid season and it reqally improving a side over the course of the rest of it? Di Matteo does not count because the league form didn't really change, despite him winning the UCL.
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  3. #93
    Registered User joedirt87's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Harrock View Post
    Klinsman tried at Bayern, it was a disaster. Managing at International level is a lot less involved.



    Did Hiddink want to coach a club? Did he want to take over mid season? Did he want to coach in England? Was he interested in United? Heynecks was available too presumably. He could likely have done a bit better.

    We appointmented Moyes, and gave him the shot he deserved. Just didn't work out. Can someone give me a few examples of a team bringing in a coach mid season and it reqally improving a side over the course of the rest of it? Di Matteo does not count because the league form didn't really change, despite him winning the UCL.
    Only one I can think of in recent memory is Hiddink at Chelsea.
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  4. #94
    Ташевски TASEVSKI's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Harrock View Post
    Klinsman tried at Bayern, it was a disaster. Managing at International level is a lot less involved.



    Did Hiddink want to coach a club? Did he want to take over mid season? Did he want to coach in England? Was he interested in United? Heynecks was available too presumably. He could likely have done a bit better.

    We appointmented Moyes, and gave him the shot he deserved. Just didn't work out. Can someone give me a few examples of a team bringing in a coach mid season and it reqally improving a side over the course of the rest of it? Di Matteo does not count because the league form didn't really change, despite him winning the UCL.
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  5. #95
    Registered User anibani's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Harrock View Post
    Klinsman tried at Bayern, it was a disaster. Managing at International level is a lot less involved.



    Did Hiddink want to coach a club? Did he want to take over mid season? Did he want to coach in England? Was he interested in United? Heynecks was available too presumably. He could likely have done a bit better.

    We appointmented Moyes, and gave him the shot he deserved. Just didn't work out. Can someone give me a few examples of a team bringing in a coach mid season and it reqally improving a side over the course of the rest of it? Di Matteo does not count because the league form didn't really change, despite him winning the UCL.
    Seedorf wasn't bad I think… He prevented Milan from an absolute disaster.

    and hasn't Crystal Palace improved a lot since Pulis came?
    Last edited by anibani; 04-22-2014 at 07:01 AM.
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  6. #96
    Drakebrah Kadafi25's Avatar
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  7. #97
    fidรฉlitรฉ ร  la mort MajesticLion's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by anibani View Post
    Managers change between clubs and national teams a lot. Why not? I guess there are some differences but most coaches should be capable to coach both.
    Not anymore. Club management involves a lot of micromanaging on a daily basis, international management is more relaxed because you have a different time frame and more moving pieces (read: politics) to work with.

  8. #98
    Registered User Fabzulous's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Harrock View Post
    Klinsman tried at Bayern, it was a disaster. Managing at International level is a lot less involved.



    Did Hiddink want to coach a club? Did he want to take over mid season? Did he want to coach in England? Was he interested in United? Heynecks was available too presumably. He could likely have done a bit better.

    We appointmented Moyes, and gave him the shot he deserved. Just didn't work out. Can someone give me a few examples of a team bringing in a coach mid season and it reqally improving a side over the course of the rest of it? Di Matteo does not count because the league form didn't really change, despite him winning the UCL.
    Those are questions you can ask of every manager at any time bar the mid season bit. Hiddink worked out pretty well for Chelsea when he joined them mid-season in answer to your second question.

    I know sacking a manager mid-season isn't a great idea but there are reports that the decision was made in February and if that is the case I think there was no reason to keep him for so long if we really didn't have faith in him.
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  9. #99
    Registered User Hitch23's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RealityKings View Post
    "This isn't his squad!"
    "Give him time, at least one more year, he needs the transfer window to build his squad"
    "Nothing he can do with this squad"
    "Fellaini was a good signing"
    "Fellaini will come good, like he did at Everton!"
    "We still got top 4"
    "Lol we got Mata now, watch this!"

    "Lets celebrate he's gone"

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    I still think Fellaini has the potential to be a decent signing for Man Utd

  10. #100
    Gooner geoffers12's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TruePride View Post
    because klinnsmen is a bad coach and not experienced with europe.. the only difference imo is that you don't have the luxury to keep track of the players fitness and train them constantly. you're relying on the clubs to keep your players fit and better. the only thing international managers can do is give the players a call before or after their daily training and check up on them and send requests to the clubs medical teams to give a player a rest in order to be ready for the world cup etc..
    never said he was a good coach...just curious about the dynamic and if it would work
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  11. #101
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    Originally Posted by joedirt87 View Post
    Theres still time to convince Klopp he should take the United job. We need Kagawa to turn on the charm and get him to come. Klopp has a sweet spot for him, the master and his pupil must be reunited. Believe.
    I honestly think if man utd get klopp then thats basically getting a good bid on reus.. I can't imagine Reus, Kagawa, Rooney, RVP, Mata all working together though.. too many attacking minded players.

  12. #102
    fidรฉlitรฉ ร  la mort MajesticLion's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kadafi25 View Post
    United, feel free to take McCoist.
    Ally should go back to voicing commentary for FIFA games. Or be forced to coach Motherwell for the rest of his life, whichever.

  13. #103
    Illuminatty Vyber's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Fabzulous View Post
    Those are questions you can ask of every manager at any time bar the mid season bit. Hiddink worked out pretty well for Chelsea when he joined them mid-season in answer to your second question.

    I know sacking a manager mid-season isn't a great idea but there are reports that the decision was made in February and if that is the case I think there was no reason to keep him for so long if we really didn't have faith in him.
    The squad Hiddink acquired at Chelsea was far better than uniteds and needed no additions to it.

    they didn't even need to make any big additions in the summer because it so good and still won the league the next year. United is a completely different situation.
    Don't see many top managers wanting to take over a mid season shambles to salvage someone else's mess. End off season is a different story.
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  14. #104
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    Originally Posted by geoffers12 View Post
    never said he was a good coach...just curious about the dynamic and if it would work
    Well Del Bosque was Real Madrids coach up until 2002 when he was sacked and he is still to this day considered to be Real Madrids greatest manager ever. Now he has the success at spain. So great club managers can transition themselves to be great international managers and vice versa.. It's just that most people look at accomplishments when choosing a manager. David moyes has achieved much of anything..

  15. #105
    Registered User Fabzulous's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Vyber View Post
    The squad Hiddink acquired at Chelsea was far better than uniteds and needed no additions to it.

    they didn't even need to make any big additions in the summer because it so good and still won the league the next year. United is a completely different situation.
    Don't see many top managers wanting to take over a mid season shambles to salvage someone else's mess. End off season is a different story.
    Ahh fair enough then. Just sad to see the guy go I guess, really wanted him to succeed especially since I don't think he was fully backed in the summer transfer window, would have loved him to turn it around next year.
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    Originally Posted by MajesticLion View Post
    Ally should go back to voicing commentary for FIFA games. Or be forced to coach Motherwell for the rest of his life, whichever.
    I'd prefer it if he'd just fuk right back to question of sport.
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  17. #107
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    Srs post:

    I hope utd don't chit on their traditions. Would be a great shame to see a team like utd become a Chelsea, disregarding managers and players with no care at all.

    It won't be hard to improve on the current team after the summer, moyes would have done that. I honestly believe any manager in the world would have struggled like moyes, it was an impossible job especially in the first season.

    Get a young yet experienced manager in, someone that plays the footy you want to be playing, even if the name isn't blockbuster and then just back him 100%, like you did with fergie.

    Solskjaer? Believe he was considered a promising manager, took on an impossible job too. Would be an interesting option. Martinez, and as crazy as it may sound, Gary Neville. It's gotten so bad because I don't hate him much anymore, but he certainly knows the club, the traditions and would seem to have managerial qualities.

    Just my 2 cents.

  18. #108
    mes que un club Joska's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Raylan View Post
    klopp seems perfect (at least on paper) for the united job, but mad respect to him for sticking with bvb
    I disagree. Klopp has succeeded motivating young players and developing cheap good players. I don't think he wants to deal with Rooney, van Persie, Vidic etc. Not to mention you still have Giggs, who has been shagging his brothers wife longer than Klopp has been a coach...

    I just don't see it.
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  19. #109
    Registered User Fabzulous's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by perrierAX View Post
    Srs post:

    I hope utd don't chit on their traditions. Would be a great shame to see a team like utd become a Chelsea, disregarding managers and players with no care at all.

    It won't be hard to improve on the current team after the summer, moyes would have done that. I honestly believe any manager in the world would have struggled like moyes, it was an impossible job especially in the first season.

    Get a young yet experienced manager in, someone that plays the footy you want to be playing, even if the name isn't blockbuster and then just back him 100%, like you did with fergie.

    Solskjaer? Believe he was considered a promising manager, took on an impossible job too. Would be an interesting option. Martinez, and as crazy as it may sound, Gary Neville. It's gotten so bad because I don't hate him much anymore, but he certainly knows the club, the traditions and would seem to have managerial qualities.

    Just my 2 cents.
    The man replacing Fergie was always in trouble imo, too difficult a man to follow. Now for the new manager with the memory of this season in the back of every Utd fans minds he'll have an easier time although to their credit, the Utd fans were quite tolerant of Moyes.
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  20. #110
    Hit a Lick With The Box wildchild11's Avatar
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    So now who will be dumb enough to take the united job
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  21. #111
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    Just heard the news. Not a United fan btw but I understand the boards disappointment. However, they appointed him and should have stuck the 'transition' out until at least Christmas next season.

    Lets be honest, this United squad is one of the weakest for years and whilst Fergie did win the title with it, no one was going to emulate his success. One thing that I'll say Moyes got wrong was his transfer business when he arrived. It was clear to see they needed to strengthen and as far as I am aware all he added was Fellaini.

    That being said, the smart move would be to get Klopp and get him to bring Gundogan and Reus with him. Then you have the building blocks to push forward.
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  22. #112
    Registered User Fabzulous's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Joska View Post
    I disagree. Klopp has succeeded motivating young players and developing cheap good players. I don't think he wants to deal with Rooney, van Persie, Vidic etc. Not to mention you still have Giggs, who has been shagging his brothers wife longer than Klopp has been a coach...

    I just don't see it.
    I don't think Klopp is coming to United but I think you've discredited us a bit there. Vidic is gone, Giggs and Ferdi are most likely retiring, we have some good younger players in Mata, Kagawa, Januzaj, Smalling, Rafael, Jones, Zaha, Welbeck, De Gea and so on, plenty of people for Klopp to come in and develop. Throw on top of that a big transfer kitty for Klopp to sign players with and I think Utd is a tempting prospect.

    The guy loves Dortmund though, definitely think he won't be coming.
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  23. #113
    mes que un club Joska's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kadafi25 View Post
    United, feel free to take McCoist.
    Only if he comes with two pairs(home and away) of his finest sideline track suit.
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  24. #114
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  25. #115
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    Originally Posted by Fabzulous View Post
    I don't think Klopp is coming to United but I think you've discredited us a bit there. Vidic is gone, Giggs and Ferdi are most likely retiring, we have some good younger players in Mata, Kagawa, Januzaj, Smalling, Rafael, Jones, Zaha, Welbeck, De Gea and so on, plenty of people for Klopp to come in and develop. Throw on top of that a big transfer kitty for Klopp to sign players with and I think Utd is a tempting prospect.

    The guy loves Dortmund though, definitely think he won't be coming.
    Yeah, maybe I exaggerated a bit. My point was that he is not proven to deal with the egos of players making $500k a week and I don't see why he would leave BVB. Personally I wouldn't and I mean no offence by that.
    That being said Klopp has stated that he doesn't see himself as the Fergie of BVB and he will def coach another team...
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  26. #116
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    lol at everyone thinking ferguson is out of this world. Conte is Italys Ferguson, they fire up their players in the same spirit and chop their heads off if they perform poorly.

    edit: with that said, your best replacement is conte. srs
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  27. #117
    Registered User anibani's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TASEVSKI View Post
    lol at everyone thinking ferguson is out of this world. Conte is Italys Ferguson, they fire up their players in the same spirit and chop their heads off if they perform poorly.

    edit: with that said, your best replacement is conte. srs
    conte won't leave.

    and if he's Italys Ferguson - we are lucky and he will stay at Juve for a whiiiiileee.

    bold part is true. But I don't think Conte's strategy and just the way he is would suit United right now.
    Last edited by anibani; 04-22-2014 at 08:04 AM.
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  28. #118
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    Originally Posted by Fabzulous View Post
    The man replacing Fergie was always in trouble imo, too difficult a man to follow. Now for the new manager with the memory of this season in the back of every Utd fans minds he'll have an easier time although to their credit, the Utd fans were quite tolerant of Moyes.
    I agree.

    With Moyes, he was sending out the wrong message to the media - this is something Roy Hodgson did at Liverpool. And once the media got on his back he wasn't strong enough to stand up for himself, which was very unlike Moyes.

    It was a bold move on his part to get rid of a lot of Fergie's coaching staff, but he followed that with trying to play it safe far too often and not being himself.

    Don't think Moyes will manage a top-tier team again.

  29. #119
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    Originally Posted by TASEVSKI View Post
    lol at everyone thinking ferguson is out of this world. Conte is Italys Ferguson, they fire up their players in the same spirit and chop their heads off if they perform poorly.

    edit: with that said, your best replacement is conte. srs
    Can he speak English?

  30. #120
    Registered User anibani's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by perrierAX View Post
    Can he speak English?
    never heard him speak english.

    edit: he doesn't.
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