AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part V

[tjayphilly]

So I have 2 questions...

1) can I use an ez bar for curls, my wrist don't like the supinated position?

2) can I do yoga on my off days to improve my range of motion mostly for deeper squats. If so how often would be suitable?

[nightanole]

So I have 2 questions...

1) can I use an ez bar for curls, my wrist don't like the supinated position?

2) can I do yoga on my off days to improve my range of motion mostly for deeper squats. If so how often would be suitable?

EZ bar deloads the bicep some, so use it as a last resort. Have you tried upright rows as an alternative?

Yoga can be done 7 days a week, for hours and hours, as long as its done AFTER the allpro workout. If you have to do it before the workout, it better be atleast 2-3 hours before, or lifting injuries will start to show up.

[Aberlifesaver]

So I've only been doing the routine for two weeks and I have two questions.. I did my 10 rep max calculator and got un-rounded numbers, like, for example 173.5. Should I round up or down for those?
Also, I failed at 8 on my second set of bench on monday (heavy day of week 2). shouldn't I have been able to hit 10?

[Mainer215]

So I've only been doing the routine for two weeks and I have two questions.. I did my 10 rep max calculator and got un-rounded numbers, like, for example 173.5. Should I round up or down for those?
Also, I failed at 8 on my second set of bench on monday (heavy day of week 2). shouldn't I have been able to hit 10?

If you are just starting out always round down. It will really help getting form down and will most likely result in a pass on your first test day which is good for confidence.

Yes you should have been able to hit your 9th rep. This is most likely an endurance issue and not a strength one. My best advice is to drop your heavy day bench weight by 5-10 lbs and go from there. You just need to get used to the endurance needed for two sets.

[Sic19]

Complete changed all core lifts, having problems progressing.



Come back when you are at least doing the first 3 lifts correctly, and bonus for doing OHP and SLDL correctly.

Is rack pulls the same as deadlifts? I have lower back problems. Uhh Rackpulls takes legs completely out of the equation and its all back and hips...

Thanks for being a dick and not answering one question, I don't think it would have been possible for me to be more polite in my post. The 2 lifts were variations recommended by top trainers, you know people who actually get paid to work with high level athletes. For the bench press I simply changed to dumbbell press which was said to be fine in the earlier questions so I'm not quite sure why you took issue with that. Furthermore the lifts I changed if you read weren't the ones I was having problems progressing with it was the exact opposite.

As I mentioned I have very little flexibility with my hamstrings so my lower back rounds very early, that's the danger with my lower back. For rackpulls I wasn't quite sure if it was a suitable alternative hence why I asked about it. Videos I watched on it mentioned it helped with your DL later on so I thought I'd work with that until I can SLDL. As for Rackpulls being the same as a DL, well I said half DL. I'm not sure if they're the exact same thing but looking for videos on youtube they looked very similar but there's often confusion with how people do certain lifts. Just look up Romanian, Stiff legged, Straight legged DL's and you get lots of different ways of doing them. In googling it just now the site I came to did use the 2 terms rack pulls and half DL interchangeably.

[LuizLeandroG]

Thanks for being a dick and not answering one question, I don't think it would have been possible for me to be more polite in my post. The 2 lifts were variations recommended by top trainers, you know people who actually get paid to work with high level athletes. For the bench press I simply changed to dumbbell press which was said to be fine in the earlier questions so I'm not quite sure why you took issue with that. Furthermore the lifts I changed if you read weren't the ones I was having problems progressing with it was the exact opposite.

As I mentioned I have very little flexibility with my hamstrings so my lower back rounds very early, that's the danger with my lower back. For rackpulls I wasn't quite sure if it was a suitable alternative hence why I asked about it. Videos I watched on it mentioned it helped with your DL later on so I thought I'd work with that until I can SLDL. As for Rackpulls being the same as a DL, well I said half DL. I'm not sure if they're the exact same thing but looking for videos on youtube they looked very similar but there's often confusion with how people do certain lifts. Just look up Romanian, Stiff legged, Straight legged DL's and you get lots of different ways of doing them. In googling it just now the site I came to did use the 2 terms rack pulls and half DL interchangeably.

I'm not trying not to be a jerk or something, but if you have access to top trainers, why don't you ask them to write a good routine for you?
All Pro designed this program having those exercises in mind. He himself answered several questions just like yours, saying that if you mess up with the exercises, you would not have the results expected (or worse: that you could end up injuring yourself).

[Sic19]

I'm not trying not to be a jerk or something, but if you have access to top trainers, why don't you ask them to write a good routine for you?
All Pro designed this program having those exercises in mind. He himself answered several questions just like yours, saying that if you mess up with the exercises, you would not have the results expected (or worse: that you could end up injuring yourself).

I have access to their articles just the same as everyone else. Stuart McRobert has both his fans and detractors, but I like a lot his work. If he says he doesn't feel bent over rows are worth the risk to the lower back which I already have issues with, and he recommends prone rows as a safe alternative should I avoid every single workout for the rest of my life that calls for bent over rows?

[teeeejay]

I was looking at this workout a few nights ago and decided I would start it. So far so good! I made a spreadsheet to help you track your lifts, and it does all the math for you. I have it set so that warmups under 45 go to 45 no matter what, but you can change that if you have access to dumbbells for light warmups.

If you guys see any issues with it, lemme know.

*****://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RjlqWEXQhkcUOWVCVG5YAUUDuShyWP3jjxeVnKvQCyU/edit#gid=0

To edit it you can either download it and open it in Excel or another spreadsheet application, or copy it to your Drive and use it there.

[nightanole]

I have access to their articles just the same as everyone else. Stuart McRobert has both his fans and detractors, but I like a lot his work. If he says he doesn't feel bent over rows are worth the risk to the lower back which I already have issues with, and he recommends prone rows as a safe alternative should I avoid every single workout for the rest of my life that calls for bent over rows?

You have back issues, so you are doing zero back work. the ALLPRO SLDL is designed to target beginners with tight hamstrings. Rack pulls do the complete opposite.
If your medical doctor says dont do squats/dead/rows due to previous trauma or congenital defect, dont do them. Otherwise its just a mobility problem which might take 6 weeks to correct.

bulgarian split squat is a horrible sub. The next best thing to a high bar squat is a zercher squat, if you cant do that, work your way down to front squats and goblet squats.
Prone row doesnt work your back (neither does the T bar). Doing it will make your back problems worse, because right now you are not working your back, at all. Every sub you picked just removes backwork. So now you will really mess up your back since you are just increasing muscle imbalances.

The allpro SLDL never touches the ground, so do it since that was your only reason to avoid it.

Lets see here... If you miss a rep on 12 rep heavy day, you repeat next cycle with the same weights, you dont go down in weight, and you dont increase less than 10% (with rounding).

Sports, heavy labor, life, should not affect your 45min lifting session. If you want a preworkout, oats and coffee 2 hours before (eh coffee can be 15min before, but works for 3 hours for lifting purposes).


I highly suggest making another thread with your unique workout and back problems. Its so modified that most will not be able to help you in the main thread.

[Sic19]

I was looking at this workout a few nights ago and decided I would start it. So far so good! I made a spreadsheet to help you track your lifts, and it does all the math for you. I have it set so that warmups under 45 go to 45 no matter what, but you can change that if you have access to dumbbells for light warmups.

If you guys see any issues with it, lemme know.

*****://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RjlqWEXQhkcUOWVCVG5YAUUDuShyWP3jjxeVnKvQCyU/edit#gid=0

Thanks for this, I just went through it, but it seems to me when you change your working set weight, it automatically changes your second warm up set, but it doesn't change your first warm up set? Maybe I'm doing something wrong here.

[teeeejay]

Thanks for this, I just went through it, but it seems to me when you change your working set weight, it automatically changes your second warm up set, but it doesn't change your first warm up set? Maybe I'm doing something wrong here.

Two things could be your issue:

1. You're changing the working weight in the chart at the bottom, not at the yellow part at the top. I should have specified that. Not sure if that would cause the issue anyway but make sure you're changing the weight at the top left.

2. Your first warmup is under 45 pounds. I have it set up so that the lowest possible warmup weight is 45 pounds. For example, on a 90 lb bent over row, it'll have your two warmups at 45. For a 140 pound row, it'll be 45 and 70. I'm assuming this is your issue.

Let me know if you're able to fix it.

[Sic19]

Two things could be your issue:

1. You're changing the working weight in the chart at the bottom, not at the yellow part at the top. I should have specified that. Not sure if that would cause the issue anyway but make sure you're changing the weight at the top left.

2. Your first warmup is under 45 pounds. I have it set up so that the lowest possible warmup weight is 45 pounds. For example, on a 90 lb bent over row, it'll have your two warmups at 45. For a 140 pound row, it'll be 45 and 70. I'm assuming this is your issue.

Let me know if you're able to fix it.

Oh ok that makes sense then. Yeah as you can see above to criticism I've changed some of core workouts to ones that involve DB's. When I record my weights I just write the weight of one DB, which of course if 1/4 is well below 45lbs. I'll just play around with it to suit my requirements thanks.

[teeeejay]

Oh ok that makes sense then. Yeah as you can see above to criticism I've changed some of core workouts to ones that involve DB's. When I record my weights I just write the weight of one DB, which of course if 1/4 is well below 45lbs.

If you look at the equation for each warmup, you'll see a MAX parameter. You can get rid of that and get rid of the 45 at the beginning and alter the parenthesis, it should display as the normal weight. That would help you out.

[nightanole]

Two things could be your issue:

1. You're changing the working weight in the chart at the bottom, not at the yellow part at the top. I should have specified that. Not sure if that would cause the issue anyway but make sure you're changing the weight at the top left.

2. Your first warmup is under 45 pounds. I have it set up so that the lowest possible warmup weight is 45 pounds. For example, on a 90 lb bent over row, it'll have your two warmups at 45. For a 140 pound row, it'll be 45 and 70. I'm assuming this is your issue.

Let me know if you're able to fix it.

What i use for medium day:
=FLOOR(B3-(B3*0.1), 5)

what i use for light day:
=FLOOR(B3-(B3*0.2), 5)

It rounds down, and it uses 5lb ( you can change the 5 to 2.5 if you have 1.25lb fraction plates) so you are not stuck with 97.45454545454 for your result.

[teeeejay]

What i use for medium day:
=FLOOR(B3-(B3*0.1), 5)

what i use for light day:
=FLOOR(B3-(B3*0.2), 5)

It rounds down, and it uses 5lb ( you can change the 5 to 2.5 if you have 1.25lb fraction plates) so you are not stuck with 97.45454545454 for your result.

I did mine with a ceiling, however, I might change it to floor. Haven't decided yet. I think for my first cycle a ceiling will be good.

[rydi123]

I've been working out steadily for the last year and a half (more really, but before that my diet was crap and I bounced around too much to make gains). I've seen good progress (down 20 lbs overall, gained significant muscle mass), but I feel like I should be seeing more, especially on some of my trouble areas (arms and presses always lag for me). This workout seems really solid, and has a lot of fans in the community, so I want to give it a solid couple cycles to see if it will help me produce better strength gains. I had some questions though, and hopefully they don't end up coming off as the annoying "can I change everything and still see gains" variety...

First, stats
185lbs
1rm's: Squat 340, Dead 405, Bench 200

1) I have pain on the bench press in my right shoulder, old martial arts injury. I've been doing incline dumbell presses in place of them and I don't experience any pain on that one... is that a viable replacement, or too different?

2) I've been training for a while, with higher volume (~21 sets/workout not counting warm-up sets, 2 day split 4 days per week m/t/th/f, maybe part of my problem?) but was worried about suddenly decreasing volume so much. Would it be appropriate or a mistake to add in 1-2 assistance exercises?

3) What are the preferred assistance exercises to add in?

4) Form question on the bent over row: overhand or underhand, wide or shoulder width?

5) Form question: what tempo? Power up and slow on the negative? slow throughout? Something else?

6) I'm not aiming to gain a bunch of mass from this, at least not for the first few cycles, rather I am aiming to prevent muscle loss while losing weight (hovering somewhere in the low 20%'s on bodyfat, seems more pressing atm). Is this workout preferable for that, or should I wait to start it until I'm aiming to build muscle and am in a calorie surplus?

Thanks for the help!

[JohnnyGunn]

Hey guys, I know I have poor form on the big 3, I'd greatly appreciate some specific direction on how to improve.

Bent-Over Row
http://youtu.be/xSRszBNBR4w


Squat
http://youtu.be/sP2V2qMFsDY


Bench
http://youtu.be/do8EM_IvBZw

[GP100]

Cycle 1 week 1 med day done.

[nightanole]

Hey guys, I know I have poor form on the big 3, I'd greatly appreciate some specific direction on how to improve.

Bent over row you are favoring one arm, other than that looks good from this angle.

Squat you are too far forward and waaaay to much lower back rounding at the bottom, that is way past butt wink and is almost a full on monkey sit.

Bench looks above average. I cant 100% from this angle, but it looks like you always keep elbows under the bar, and you push the bar at an angle towards your starting position. Most beginners push straight up, which is correct if your bottom posistion was on your neck
Double check you are hitting below the nipples, you could be benching too high and causing excess elbow flare.

[nightanole]

I've been working out steadily for the last year and a half (more really, but before that my diet was crap and I bounced around too much to make gains). I've seen good progress (down 20 lbs overall, gained significant muscle mass), but I feel like I should be seeing more, especially on some of my trouble areas (arms and presses always lag for me). This workout seems really solid, and has a lot of fans in the community, so I want to give it a solid couple cycles to see if it will help me produce better strength gains. I had some questions though, and hopefully they don't end up coming off as the annoying "can I change everything and still see gains" variety...

First, stats
185lbs
1rm's: Squat 340, Dead 405, Bench 200

1) I have pain on the bench press in my right shoulder, old martial arts injury. I've been doing incline dumbell presses in place of them and I don't experience any pain on that one... is that a viable replacement, or too different?

2) I've been training for a while, with higher volume (~21 sets/workout not counting warm-up sets, 2 day split 4 days per week m/t/th/f, maybe part of my problem?) but was worried about suddenly decreasing volume so much. Would it be appropriate or a mistake to add in 1-2 assistance exercises?

3) What are the preferred assistance exercises to add in?

4) Form question on the bent over row: overhand or underhand, wide or shoulder width?

5) Form question: what tempo? Power up and slow on the negative? slow throughout? Something else?

6) I'm not aiming to gain a bunch of mass from this, at least not for the first few cycles, rather I am aiming to prevent muscle loss while losing weight (hovering somewhere in the low 20%'s on bodyfat, seems more pressing atm). Is this workout preferable for that, or should I wait to start it until I'm aiming to build muscle and am in a calorie surplus?

Thanks for the help!

Hate to tell you this, but with a 945lb power lifting total this program will not work for you, The progression will be too quick, and it wont have enough volume for you to progress.

I would try out allpro intermediate v2, it uses all the lifts of this program, but structured for someone with a 800lb + power lifting total.

As for questions, decline should be better, but i dont know the full injury. I would try out pinkies 32" appart and try to pull the bar appart like a rubber band, this will prevent elbow flare and reduce some rotator cuff problems. I would also look into the "power lifting twist/screw" type lift. You start out with the elbows flared at lockout, then pull them in at the bottom. The elbows in at the bottom creates tension so its easier to keep tight and push off, and eblows flared at the top really helps the triceps lock out.

cant help with assistance, sine dont know what you are lagging in. Popular add ons are pullups and shrugs.

row is palms down, shoulder width

tempo should auto regulate since its over 5 reps, no slow negatives.

[rydi123]

Hate to tell you this, but with a 945lb power lifting total this program will not work for you, The progression will be too quick, and it wont have enough volume for you to progress.

...

Doh! What I was afraid of. But thank you for your help, especially the suggestions on alternate bench techniques, I will definitely explore them further.

One last question: What is the cuttoff where the beginner plan is no longer viable? I work out with a couple friends, they are newer to weightlifting and we were looking for a program we could do together... I could probably do the Intermediate while they do the Beginner plan, but was wanting to make sure they wouldn't benefit from the intermediate as well.

Thanks again.

[ricewithfish]

Bent over row you are favoring one arm, other than that looks good from this angle.

Squat you are too far forward and waaaay to much lower back rounding at the bottom, that is way past butt wink and is almost a full on monkey sit.

Bench looks above average. I cant 100% from this angle, but it looks like you always keep elbows under the bar, and you push the bar at an angle towards your starting position. Most beginners push straight up, which is correct if your bottom posistion was on your neck
Double check you are hitting below the nipples, you could be benching too high and causing excess elbow flare.

So i should not push straight up from nipple line bro ?
Woops i think i should record a video too.......
Can i alternate barbell curl with hammer curl bar ?
Thanks bro

[nightanole]

Doh! What I was afraid of. But thank you for your help, especially the suggestions on alternate bench techniques, I will definitely explore them further.

One last question: What is the cuttoff where the beginner plan is no longer viable? I work out with a couple friends, they are newer to weightlifting and we were looking for a program we could do together... I could probably do the Intermediate while they do the Beginner plan, but was wanting to make sure they wouldn't benefit from the intermediate as well.

Thanks again.

The cut off is around 800-1000lbs, and is mostly leg dependent, bench will always be around 2 plate. The best program ive seen for "extended novice" is Greyskull LP. It is half the progression of 5x5 or SS, so it can work for people who can still put on 175-200lbs to their total a year. For N00bs, they are allowed to double the weight progression as long as they get in over 10 reps on their 3rd set. So the intermediate lifter will be progressing at 15lbs a month getting in 5-7 reps, but the beginners will be progressing at 30lbs a month getting in 10-15 reps.
You will have to help your n00bs since Greyskull is setup like an intermediate routine (4 core lifts) so its got alot of plugins you will have to pick out in order to make the program well rounded.

[nightanole]

So i should not push straight up from nipple line bro ?
Woops i think i should record a video too.......
Can i alternate barbell curl with hammer curl bar ?
Thanks bro

Benching 101. You start at lockout, find the spot where the bar doesnt want to pull towards your head nor towards your feet, that is the neutral position. Its that very spot you want to "push" the bar to from below the nipple line (depending alittle on arm/torso length). You dont push the bar straight up from your chest, and then move it to the neutral position. Now the other n00b problem is they dont go low enough on the chest (because it get heavy, because they want to push straight up...), which causes the elbows to flare, which causes the elbow to not be under the wrist, which makes inefficient form.

This will explain bar path better, and why pushing towards your head makes it easier.

http://articles.elitefts.com/trainin...ience-applied/


Hammer curls deload the bicep even more than the EZ bar, but if you want to target the forearms.....
http://www.livestrong.com/article/53...barbell-curls/

[OmarZRG]

Hi, I'm looking to start this routine along with the beginning of the fall season and I'm wondering if it could hurt to do my first workout of the routine the day after finding my starting weights for each exercise . If someone experienced could clear this up that would be great because I am lifting with my track team on Friday and I would like to kick off my allpro routine then instead of doing starting weights that day and starting the workouts next week.

[JohnnyGunn]

Squat you are too far forward and waaaay to much lower back rounding at the bottom, that is way past butt wink and is almost a full on monkey sit.

Any tips on how to correct those?

If I sit further back I start to fall over backwards. And I'm not sure how *not* to round my back - maybe I should try not squatting so low?

Bench looks above average. it looks like you always keep elbows under the bar

Under the bar as in towards my legs?

Double check you are hitting below the nipples

I usually hit right on them, so maybe aim slightly lower?


Thanks for the advice.

[10brink]

Hi, I'm looking to start this routine along with the beginning of the fall season and I'm wondering if it could hurt to do my first workout of the routine the day after finding my starting weights for each exercise . If someone experienced could clear this up that would be great because I am lifting with my track team on Friday and I would like to kick off my allpro routine then instead of doing starting weights that day and starting the workouts next week.

I would have at least one rest day before you start your first day, since it is your heavy after all.

[Pottertons]

Hey guys, I know I have poor form on the big 3, I'd greatly appreciate some specific direction on how to improve.

Bent-Over Row
http://youtu.be/xSRszBNBR4w


Squat
http://youtu.be/sP2V2qMFsDY


Bench
http://youtu.be/do8EM_IvBZw

How did you set your phone up in the gym? I'd like to do a form check video as well.

Bent over row you are favoring one arm, other than that looks good from this angle.

So I shouldn't be bringing my elbows inwards on the way up to get that squeeze on the back muscles?

[nightanole]

So I shouldn't be bringing my elbows inwards on the way up to get that squeeze on the back muscles?

OP has one arm stronger than the other, so hes not keeping the bar parallel with the floor. Your elbows inward and squeezing correct (dont forget to loose the shoulder blades at the bottom of the movement).

[nightanole]

Any tips on how to correct those?

If I sit further back I start to fall over backwards. And I'm not sure how *not* to round my back - maybe I should try not squatting so low?



Under the bar as in towards my legs?



I usually hit right on them, so maybe aim slightly lower?


Thanks for the advice.

On the bench, at the bottom of the movement, the elbow should be directly under the wrist, (or the best your anatomy can accommodate), if its too high on your chest, the bar/wrist wont be on top of the elbow, and your elbow will flare. Keep your pinkies 32" apart (bar should have rings at those points if its a power lifting bar) and take a video from the side, if the elbow stays under the bar you are good to go.

Squats, you need to really push out your abs(and big belly of air), and force your pelvis down at the bottom, and for you you cant go nearly that low. You can have some butt wink, but thats waay to much. You will have to look into some squat mobility drills. Odds are its a foot placement that doesnt agree with your hip structure. You might have to go shoulder width appart and feet out 30 degrees as a start.