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  1. #3001
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    Originally Posted by thomasbenjamin View Post
    Ok thanks. But would this programme be suitable for my goals?

    Short Term Goal
    My goal is to achieve the maximum mass gains possible until December 20th (around 3 cycles, if i start now).

    My concern is that, from the few workout journals of this routine that i have checked out, it seems hypertrophy seems limited for the first 3-4 cycles and then increasing rapidly during the 4-6 cycles before hitting the plateau. (Correct me if i am wrong)
    I dont mind if i plateau by december 20th so long as i can maximise mass gain until then.

    Would i be better off doing a standard full body routine? like this one in the thread i started:
    forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=163179981

    Please advice.
    ANY routine will have very little mass gain for the first 6 weeks, the novice lifter just isnt efficient enough and the body is running below optimal till DOMS go away. It will be this way with all routines. If you want you can try 5x5 its also very good, it goes up 30lbs a month on upper and 60lbs lower, but once you get in the grove you will be doing monthly 10% deloads, so like others said its a wash once you are on a roll with either program. Since 5x5 is 3 lifts, allpro is 7, and you get to bench OHP 3x a week on all pro, 5x5 is bench either once or twice a week.

  2. #3002
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by njdfan30 View Post
    OK so I'm having a couple quick issues...1 is I stepped on the scale and am actually about a pound lighter than I was when I started lifting. I'm pretty sure this is not a good sign, and I've been good at eating at if not greater than my target calories. I used the formula in Emma's post for calculating my calories...I did the math for the calories and multiplied by 1.5 for the moderate (exercise 3-5X/week), then by 90% since I have an office job where I sit on my duff all week. Overall on training days my target is 2,465 cals and non-training days it's 1860 (I have less energy expenditure obviously on days I don't train). I noticed these seem like low numbers but I'm only 166 lbs so it doesn't seem like my numbers are way off. I added 10% to my calculated maintenance calories in terms of getting my targets. The other thing is, and I'm not sure or not if this matters or not, but I've slept like crap all week, just mentioning that in case it may be factoring into something.

    On another note, I have to miss my light day tomorrow because I have to leave town right after work, and am considering just doing some push ups and crunches so that I'm at least doing SOMETHING. May not be the worst thing, because I was pretty sore yesterday from Monday and managed to get through my squats, and I'm way worse today than I was Tuesday so I'm assuming tomorrow's squats might be unrealistic anyway.
    You dont have 2400 and 1860 days. First, your body is repairing and growing on 1860 days, and the 2400 days take longer to digest. Your TDEE is not going to vary more than 100-200 cals on lift vs non lift days. Just pick somethng like 2300 and stick with it for 2 weeks, if the scale is not moving in the direction you want it to, adjust 250 cals every 2 weeks till it does. Hell in 2 months if you put on 2-3lbs of muscle, your TDEE is going to be 150+ cals greater anyway.

  3. #3003
    Registered User AlecGaro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Friggy View Post
    AllPro is pretty balanced for strength and volume. Theres a graph out there that shows how different programs will ramp up differently, but the strength level you get to on AllPro is almost the same when compared to other strength based programs. I think a lot of people exaggerate what you get from a strength based program and a hypertrophy based program anyways. Its not like youll completely balloon up on one program and be weak, or be super strong on the other program but not look like you lift. Between the two programs, strength or hypertrophy, one just leaves you a little bit bigger, the other will make you a little bit stronger.

    If you want, you can mess with the rep ranges on AllPro to put focus on different aspects. I know a few guys in this thread arent just running the 8-12 cycle. I think the deciding factor will be how well you recover though. Once you start modifying, 3x a week can be too much, so youll need to space it out a bit, like a good upper/lower.

    With that you can do upper and lower A, focus on lower rep ranges, strength and whatnot. Then the next two workouts in the week would be upper and lower B, where you go higher rep ranges usually and hit things from a different angle.

    Fierce 5 is a good Upper/Lower, AllPro v2 and Lyle Mcdonalds generic routine are nice too. Plenty of them out there.

    thank yo u for all of that and what is allpro v2? i tried looking it up but found nothing, maybe link me?

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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    All pro, like ALL beginner routines ( include SS) are ALL 100% hypertrophy based, no questions asked. 5x5 or 3x5 or 3x10 or what ev, for people below a 800lb power lifting total, its always hypertrophy. You will get zero results doing a true strength routine. All the beginner routines are designed so you are working at 70-80% of your max, and once the program start beating your, and creeps into the 90% range, it causes a deload within a week. Why? Because if you work at 90%, your recovery is going to be 2-3x longer, yet muscle gains will be the same. So as a beginner, hypertrophy always equals strength. There is zero need for Power, Strength, Hypertrophy rep ranges or style till after your first year to 18 months of lifting stuff up and putting it down in the 5-15 rep range 3x a week. After that, yes, you can start training for your sport, or for size, or to increase your power to weight ratio. Body builders are slow as hell on the field (hell watch them fight on youtube), you dont bulk for power lifting matches ( it puts you in a worse weight class), and you dont spend time increasing your power to weight ratio when body building.
    i appreciate the help, do you have any (intermediate) programs that do somewhat focus on both to maximize your muscle gains?

  5. #3005
    Registered User njdfan30's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    You dont have 2400 and 1860 days. First, your body is repairing and growing on 1860 days, and the 2400 days take longer to digest. Your TDEE is not going to vary more than 100-200 cals on lift vs non lift days. Just pick somethng like 2300 and stick with it for 2 weeks, if the scale is not moving in the direction you want it to, adjust 250 cals every 2 weeks till it does. Hell in 2 months if you put on 2-3lbs of muscle, your TDEE is going to be 150+ cals greater anyway.
    Interesting. I guess I just figured I was burning at least 500 cals more on a training day than a non-training day since one I am busting my hump and the other I am doing jack squat. Considering upping from a 10% over maintenance to 15 and just doing that on a consistent basis. Prob not a bad idea considering my target was 2465 and I took in 2700+ and weighed in less than when I was a cardio maniac for awhile.

  6. #3006
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AlecGaro View Post
    thank yo u for all of that and what is allpro v2? i tried looking it up but found nothing, maybe link me?
    Originally Posted by AlecGaro View Post
    i appreciate the help, do you have any (intermediate) programs that do somewhat focus on both to maximize your muscle gains?
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=135025731

    V2 is the simplest and closest to allpro beginner. Its in the 4-8 rep range, so you could technically say its alittle more strength based. The whole "rep range for strength vs hypertrophy" is BS. Your either training for singles for strength for competition, or your trying to increase the cross sectional area of the muscle. There is no mix.

    Intermediate 2
    All Pro Split
    5 week cycle
    A
    Bench Presses do 4 work sets rep scheme 4-5-6-7-8 Do 2 warm up sets. 25% of the work set weight for 15 reps and 50% of the work set weight for 10 reps.
    Bent-Over Rows do 4 work sets rep scheme 4-5-6-7-8
    Overhead Barbell Presses do 2 work sets rep scheme 6-7-8-9-10
    Barbell Curls do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12
    Tricep press do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12
    Hammer grip dumb bell press do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12
    Pull down do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12

    B
    Squats do 4 work sets rep scheme 4-5-6-7-8 Do 2 warm up sets. 25% of the work set weight for 15 reps and 50% of the work set weight for 10 reps.
    Leg extensions do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-10-12-15-20
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12
    Leg curls do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12
    Calf Raises do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-10-12-15-20
    Seated calf press do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-10-12-15-20
    Add ab work
    If you get all of the reps on week 5 add 5%
    That should get you started. I would do this A/B/A then B/A/B until you come up to speed. Then try 4 work outs per week. A-B off. A-B off off.

  7. #3007
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by njdfan30 View Post
    Interesting. I guess I just figured I was burning at least 500 cals more on a training day than a non-training day since one I am busting my hump and the other I am doing jack squat. Considering upping from a 10% over maintenance to 15 and just doing that on a consistent basis. Prob not a bad idea considering my target was 2465 and I took in 2700+ and weighed in less than when I was a cardio maniac for awhile.
    You might be busting your hump, but what do you think your body is doing on jack squat day, its repairing and growing, so its using nearly the same amount of cals. Now yea if you take a week off lifting, your off day TDEE will be down alot. For weekend research you can lookup the after burn affect for lifting vs steady state cardio.

  8. #3008
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    I seem to be running out of gas on my OHP last lift. Im on C1W2. Normal? Saw someone else say the same thing. 6-7 reps no problem and then a hela struggle.

    Also my weight I dropped 5 lbs right away. And now I've been the same weight last 2 weeks no change. Lower calories or wait it out a few more weeks due to being a new lifter....?

    THanks you all have been a huge inspiration and help!

  9. #3009
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=135025731

    V2 is the simplest and closest to allpro beginner. Its in the 4-8 rep range, so you could technically say its alittle more strength based. The whole "rep range for strength vs hypertrophy" is BS. Your either training for singles for strength for competition, or your trying to increase the cross sectional area of the muscle. There is no mix.

    Intermediate 2
    Hey nightanole, if I do All Pro v2 for my cut after I finish on All Pro SBR, could I do a/b/a b/a/b instead of 4 days a week, for the whole program? For the sake of helping my recovery. I know All Pro recommends starting on a/b/a and b/a/b, but then suggests switching to 4x/week.I also like to play soccer which really kills my recovery, so 4x a week I think would be too much work.

    If I did that then, what would the rep progression be? Increase reps after 2 a's and 2 b's, and disregard the weekly increase?

  10. #3010
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    Originally Posted by bigvix View Post
    I seem to be running out of gas on my OHP last lift. Im on C1W2. Normal? Saw someone else say the same thing. 6-7 reps no problem and then a hela struggle.

    Also my weight I dropped 5 lbs right away. And now I've been the same weight last 2 weeks no change. Lower calories or wait it out a few more weeks due to being a new lifter....?

    THanks you all have been a huge inspiration and help!

    Welcome to AllPro, that OHP is a killer no matter what. It's because the arms get hammered pretty hard from bench and BOR.

    I wouldn't try to drop weight the first cycle. Just try and eat at maintenance for Cycle 1 to see if you really know what your body is doing.

  11. #3011
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    Originally Posted by bigvix View Post
    I seem to be running out of gas on my OHP last lift. Im on C1W2. Normal? Saw someone else say the same thing. 6-7 reps no problem and then a hela struggle.

    Also my weight I dropped 5 lbs right away. And now I've been the same weight last 2 weeks no change. Lower calories or wait it out a few more weeks due to being a new lifter....?

    THanks you all have been a huge inspiration and help!
    I start my 5th cycle next week and so far the only fails I have had were the OHP and curls on the first cycle. I think my issue with the OHP initally were bad form, after watching a few videos and changing my forum up a bit it has seemed to help me out a lot.

  12. #3012
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    I'm in the middle of my beginner stage is this workout still worth doing?(coming from SS

    Lifts
    B 210
    S 260
    D 325
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  13. #3013
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    Originally Posted by azmic123 View Post
    I'm in the middle of my beginner stage is this workout still worth doing?(coming from SS

    Lifts
    B 210
    S 260
    D 325
    Supposedly you can run this program until you can bench 1.5x body weight and squat 2x body weight (approximate), so give it a shot.

  14. #3014
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    So, yesterday was Cycle4 Test day.

    Most of the lifts went well, except Bench and OHP. My wrist hurts as hell on Bench if I am not really focusing on placing my wrist in a good position, still managed all reps for Bench though, but gave up on the OHP. I did first set 12 reps easy, but then only 7 reps. My wrist was hurting too much to finish.

    Moving on to novice next cycle, this should be the last cycle before Intermediate v2.
    Bench 255
    Squat 355
    Deadlift 450

  15. #3015
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    I just finished my heavy day, week 5 of cycle 2 (12 reps). I did miss a few reps of the last set on bench, row, and press but nailed everything else. Coming into the day I felt like I was going to kill it but I fizzled out (10/8/7 reps on those 3 exercises). The mental game can be a bitch..

    I've read many posts but one question I have is it states 3 non-consecutive days a week. If I do M/W/F is it ok to just keep on the every other pattern say Sunday also or should I wait until Monday again. I've been doing every other and wonder if that is why I hit a wall per se. My calories and macros are where they should be and I'm getting plenty of rest in between. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

  16. #3016
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shawn7932 View Post
    I just finished my heavy day, week 5 of cycle 2 (12 reps). I did miss a few reps of the last set on bench, row, and press but nailed everything else. Coming into the day I felt like I was going to kill it but I fizzled out (10/8/7 reps on those 3 exercises). The mental game can be a bitch..

    I've read many posts but one question I have is it states 3 non-consecutive days a week. If I do M/W/F is it ok to just keep on the every other pattern say Sunday also or should I wait until Monday again. I've been doing every other and wonder if that is why I hit a wall per se. My calories and macros are where they should be and I'm getting plenty of rest in between. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!
    Not sure what you are talking about. If you are shaving a day off each "week" you just turned 5 week allpro int 4 week almost, so yea you are robbing recovery, you need 2 days off between heavies and any other workout.

  17. #3017
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hotPretzel View Post
    Hey nightanole, if I do All Pro v2 for my cut after I finish on All Pro SBR, could I do a/b/a b/a/b instead of 4 days a week, for the whole program? For the sake of helping my recovery. I know All Pro recommends starting on a/b/a and b/a/b, but then suggests switching to 4x/week.I also like to play soccer which really kills my recovery, so 4x a week I think would be too much work.

    If I did that then, what would the rep progression be? Increase reps after 2 a's and 2 b's, and disregard the weekly increase?
    Not to discredit you, but all pro v2 is an intermediate routine. Unless you got your form down and have at least a 800lb power lifting total, it will crush you with shear volume. Even you noticed you need to start off at 3 days a week so you can work up to that volume. You progress the same if you are doing aba or abab, the extra day is when you need that volume. If you add the volume too early you will over reach and stall.

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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Not sure what you are talking about. If you are shaving a day off each "week" you just turned 5 week allpro int 4 week almost, so yea you are robbing recovery, you need 2 days off between heavies and any other workout.
    Thank you!!! That makes plenty of sense to me.

  19. #3019
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    Hi,

    I still have one week to go before my holiday, And that week is the start of Cycle 2, Should I start with Cycle 2 week 1 and go further with week 2 after my 2 week vacation? OR just do some cardio etc and start Cycle 2 when I'm back?

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    Originally Posted by bigvix View Post
    I seem to be running out of gas on my OHP last lift. Im on C1W2. Normal? Saw someone else say the same thing. 6-7 reps no problem and then a hela struggle.
    OHP is always my toughest lift. Like Sader said, some of the previous lifts definitely have an affect. Also, I think it's the easiest lift to let "get in your head" and give up prematurely on... with it being an overhead lift and all. I've found that I can usually push out at least another rep or two after that "I'm done" thought crosses my mind on OHP. Of course it's better to be safe than sorry and only you know when you truly have nothing left in the tank.

  21. #3021
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    So today is C2W2 light day and I feel like this week has been my best week on the program so far. I've felt strong during my lifts and I've eaten very well. Cardio has felt good as well. I'm still sticking to my HIIT routine (or at least my version of it) which consists of jumping rope in the following pattern:

    40 seconds high-knee skipping
    20 second rest
    Repeat for 10 minutes
    Rest for 2-3 minutes

    Repeat the whole thing twice more, for a routine that lasts about 35 mins in total.


    The scale said 180lbs this AM, which is down a bit since the beginning of the week. I know there are natural fluctuations daily, but I've been weighing fairly regularly (multiple times per week at the same time of day) and it's been a while since I've been as low as the 180 mark. I'm going to measure myself this afternoon and see if I can get a body fat estimate. My scale says 19.6, but I know scales notoriously over-estimate, and I'm a middle-fat carrier type, so that's likely over-estimating me even more. I'm guessing I'm around 18-19, though.

    My challenge this weekend will be to carry on with eating well, and not devolving into lazy pig mode. My plan to address this is to continue to track calories for the whole weekend, which is something I usually stop doing. I'm also going to build in a cheat meal (just one meal, not a whole day) so that I let myself off the hook, but with some control.

    I'm feeling positive about my progress for the first time in a couple of weeks.

  22. #3022
    Registered User Tom01234's Avatar
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    On this allpro training programme do I perform all the exercises in 1 day? I thought you shouldn't train on more than one muscle a day

    Cheers

  23. #3023
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tom01234 View Post
    On this allpro training programme do I perform all the exercises in 1 day? I thought you shouldn't train on more than one muscle a day

    Cheers
    Your "muscle" stops growing 48-72 hours after you last worked it out. Your muscle might take a week to recover from a heavy workout. Now if you are talking about having "legs" day and "chest" day, as a beginner you will be growing about 2 out of 7 days a week.

  24. #3024
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Muckrake View Post
    So today is C2W2 light day and I feel like this week has been my best week on the program so far. I've felt strong during my lifts and I've eaten very well. Cardio has felt good as well. I'm still sticking to my HIIT routine (or at least my version of it) which consists of jumping rope in the following pattern:

    40 seconds high-knee skipping
    20 second rest
    Repeat for 10 minutes
    Rest for 2-3 minutes

    Repeat the whole thing twice more, for a routine that lasts about 35 mins in total.


    The scale said 180lbs this AM, which is down a bit since the beginning of the week. I know there are natural fluctuations daily, but I've been weighing fairly regularly (multiple times per week at the same time of day) and it's been a while since I've been as low as the 180 mark. I'm going to measure myself this afternoon and see if I can get a body fat estimate. My scale says 19.6, but I know scales notoriously over-estimate, and I'm a middle-fat carrier type, so that's likely over-estimating me even more. I'm guessing I'm around 18-19, though.

    My challenge this weekend will be to carry on with eating well, and not devolving into lazy pig mode. My plan to address this is to continue to track calories for the whole weekend, which is something I usually stop doing. I'm also going to build in a cheat meal (just one meal, not a whole day) so that I let myself off the hook, but with some control.

    I'm feeling positive about my progress for the first time in a couple of weeks.
    Since you like to jump rope, i would recomend some of the excellent old school boxing 3min training styles. I dont have my books infront of me, but i believe it was 3min of 120bpm double jumps is equivalent to 1 round of boxing.

  25. #3025
    Registered User electro791's Avatar
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    Follow Up

    Height-5”11 TDEE-2249
    Weight-134 BMR- 1635
    Just started this workout this week and I finished my third day. I really just tried to get the pain out this week.
    The first day I did not have energy to finish all the exercises. I tried to cut some fat off my body while working out and apparently I was not using the right approach.
    The second day I was able to finish all my exercises, it took be about an 1.5hrs because it was really difficult for me. I was trying to find my ORM this time. I did my best to be accurate.
    The third day I was able to finish all my exercises in little over an hour however I fatigued before I could finish all the reps in some sets.
    My workout weight looks like this at the moment-
    Squat- 65,75,90,90 x8
    Bench press- 65,75,75,75 x8
    Bent Over Rows- 55,60,65,65 x8 (My legs wobble so much when I do this because my leg muscles are
    fatigued really badly. I try really hard to focus on my form)
    Overhead Barbell Press-45, 45, 45, 45 x8 (I am not able to finish all the reps by the 3rd,4thset)
    Stiff Legged Deadlifts- 55,55,55,55 x8
    Barbell Curls- 30,30,30,30 x12 ( I want to do 40x8 but it was really hard)
    Seated calf raises- I just added a 25lb plate x12
    My questions
    -What do I need to improve? Should I readjust my ORM this week?
    - What do I do if I can’t finish all the reps in a set? Do I stop for a few seconds and push out the last 3 or just end and proceed to the next set?
    - When you see my pictures I am guessing I have like 20% Body fat? Is that bad or good?
    Attached Images

  26. #3026
    Registered User TheJTF2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Not to discredit you, but all pro v2 is an intermediate routine. Unless you got your form down and have at least a 800lb power lifting total, it will crush you with shear volume. Even you noticed you need to start off at 3 days a week so you can work up to that volume. You progress the same if you are doing aba or abab, the extra day is when you need that volume. If you add the volume too early you will over reach and stall.
    Hey,

    I should be on a last cycle of the beginner routine and was thinking of moving to the V2 because it is the more closely related to the beginner version, starting out with the 3times/week for the first cycle.
    I was concerned about the "800 power lifting total" as my lifts aren't that high and thought it depended on bw. My lifts for the next cycle will be in the novice rep range.

    Lifts WILL be; (lbs)

    Bench: 125 (4-8)
    Squats: 145 (4-8)
    Bor: 120 (4-8)

    OHP: 50 (Failed last cycle, wrist pain)
    SLDL: 120
    Curls: 60
    Calf raises: Whatever I feel like doing, I use dumbbells to do grip strength at the same time.

    Accessory : Thinking of switching Reverse Grip Bench Press to Arnold Press.

    Would those lifts be enough to move to V2 ?
    Bench 255
    Squat 355
    Deadlift 450

  27. #3027
    Registered User bigvix's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by electro791 View Post
    Height-5”11 TDEE-2249
    Weight-134 BMR- 1635
    Just started this workout this week and I finished my third day. I really just tried to get the pain out this week.
    The first day I did not have energy to finish all the exercises. I tried to cut some fat off my body while working out and apparently I was not using the right approach.
    The second day I was able to finish all my exercises, it took be about an 1.5hrs because it was really difficult for me. I was trying to find my ORM this time. I did my best to be accurate.
    The third day I was able to finish all my exercises in little over an hour however I fatigued before I could finish all the reps in some sets.
    My workout weight looks like this at the moment-
    Squat- 65,75,90,90 x8
    Bench press- 65,75,75,75 x8
    Bent Over Rows- 55,60,65,65 x8 (My legs wobble so much when I do this because my leg muscles are
    fatigued really badly. I try really hard to focus on my form)
    Overhead Barbell Press-45, 45, 45, 45 x8 (I am not able to finish all the reps by the 3rd,4thset)
    Stiff Legged Deadlifts- 55,55,55,55 x8
    Barbell Curls- 30,30,30,30 x12 ( I want to do 40x8 but it was really hard)
    Seated calf raises- I just added a 25lb plate x12
    My questions
    -What do I need to improve? Should I readjust my ORM this week?
    - What do I do if I can’t finish all the reps in a set? Do I stop for a few seconds and push out the last 3 or just end and proceed to the next set?
    - When you see my pictures I am guessing I have like 20% Body fat? Is that bad or good?
    Holy bro your way off. If your squat is 90 your warm up should be 22.5 45 then two work sets of 90
    Bp and bor the same 1/4 1/2 your wirk set weight to warm up. Then the two work sets. All the other lifts are two working sets at your designated weight not 4.
    Hope this helps

  28. #3028
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TheJTF2 View Post
    Hey,

    I should be on a last cycle of the beginner routine and was thinking of moving to the V2 because it is the more closely related to the beginner version, starting out with the 3times/week for the first cycle.
    I was concerned about the "800 power lifting total" as my lifts aren't that high and thought it depended on bw. My lifts for the next cycle will be in the novice rep range.

    Lifts WILL be; (lbs)

    Bench: 125 (4-8)
    Squats: 145 (4-8)
    Bor: 120 (4-8)

    OHP: 50 (Failed last cycle, wrist pain)
    SLDL: 120
    Curls: 60
    Calf raises: Whatever I feel like doing, I use dumbbells to do grip strength at the same time.

    Accessory : Thinking of switching Reverse Grip Bench Press to Arnold Press.

    Would those lifts be enough to move to V2 ?
    Not even close. You will progress almost 2x faster if you keep on the linear progression beginner routine. If you want another test, since you are a light weight; bw for 12 bench and 1.5x bw for 12 squat. And 800lb power lifting total is very low bar, some can run beginner routines to 1000lb totals before they have to switch to a slower progressing intermediate routine. Yes i said it, intermediate routines are hell of a lot slower, they have to be or the lifter will stall. Even at full bore, v2 is half the progression of stock beginner. If you want "mad gainz", run beginner and once you pass cycle1, run the rest of the cycles on a 1kg bulk while pushing the progression 15% (the max of the program before massive stalling). If you cant progress the 15%, cut the bulk in half and run stock 10%.

  29. #3029
    Registered User Rubadubs's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    run the rest of the cycles on a 1kg bulk while pushing the progression 15% (the max of the program before massive stalling). If you cant progress the 15%, cut the bulk in half and run stock 10%.
    I'm interested in this - just wanted to clarify the 1kg bulk. Is this weight to put on per week (i.e 1000 calorie surplus per day (give or take a few hundred calories))?

  30. #3030
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Rubadubs View Post
    I'm interested in this - just wanted to clarify the 1kg bulk. Is this weight to put on per week (i.e 1000 calorie surplus per day (give or take a few hundred calories))?
    1kg per cycle(200-300 cal surplus). Your TDEE will change from cycle to cycle as you gain weight and increase output. So that 250 cal surplus on cycle 2 might turn into maintenance by cycle 4.

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