Keto Diet Questions

**Manteca** · 02-25-2002, 09:57 AM

please try and post all of your keto questions in this thread, there are just so many now.

To start I have 2 of my own. Is it a good idea to take in lower than 50g carbs a day the first 3 days or so to get into ketosis more quickly? Second I have heard you say fitnessman that if you take in a very tiny amount of carbs you will be in a very catabolic state. Why is it that the ~50g is so neccesary in the diet? Why is it such a bad idea to go lower?

Like I said lets please try and centralize all of these questions a bit instead of having 100 threads all dealing with 1 topic

**Original Poster** · 02-25-2002, 11:00 AM

Manteca,

This is why we need a keto categorie. But I guess your thread will have to do for now.

Question 1:
Is it a good idea to take in lower than 50g carbs a day the first 3 days or so to get into ketosis more quickly?

My thoughts: I personally don't think it matters, most people will get to ketosis in 2-3 days. I don't think a day or two longer makes much of a difference. I think that may just be a way of getting there (into ketosis) for sure for people who have not yet assessed what carb level they need to be below b4 keto happens.

Question 2: (more like 3 questions)
Second I have heard you say fitnessman that if you take in a very tiny amount of carbs you will be in a very catabolic state. Why is it that the ~50g is so neccesary in the diet? Why is it such a bad idea to go lower?

My thoughts: a few times I went under 50g/day (actually about 25-30) and I could feel I was catabolic (if that is possible), no energy, severe brain fog. I was only able to maintain that for a few weeks (pure hell). Once I learned that there had to be 30-35 grams of carbs in my post workout drink, I had no problem. But prior to learning this, I think I actally lost some muscle doing such low carb without a proper post workout meal.
I do believe when under 50g/day the body freaks out sort of and all kinds of things that can only be catabolic happen.
(I would love to have some of the more science minded people address this one.)

I am actually a believer in a carb up meal or two a week. Even on keto. Par has a good article that deal with leptin levels and purposeful carb up meals.

PEACE

**Manteca** · 02-25-2002, 11:16 AM

I think the keto category idea is a great one. We should really see about getting one started. It would certainly be alot hotter than the "meet other bbers" catergory

I think you are definately right about brain fog being more of a problem with too few carbs, it can make me feel very detached.

**Tim** · 02-25-2002, 11:43 AM

I have a couple questions: 1. I was wondering if you can marinade your meats in teryiaki or soy sauce on a keto diet. I know they have some carbs, but very few, and I would think that the amount of carbs that are absorbed by the meat is much too low to get you out of ketosis.

2. Can you eat tomatoes, pickles and peppers? I've been avoiding them so far becasue I wasn't sure.

**Manteca** · 02-25-2002, 11:52 AM

I have to make a concious effort to get carbs in sometimes Tim, I think that the marinade would be fine as long as you worked those cals into your plan.

**Tim** · 02-25-2002, 11:59 AM

Interesting. I don't think that getting the carbs in is a problem - the problem is making sure that you don't get too many. If you eat veggies like spinach, brocolli, and lettuce with your meats, getting the carbs in shouldn't be a problem. Cheese and sausage also contain some carbs, but very few. I think I have to watch out that I don't get too many carbs, because I really think that I need my fiberous veggies.

**T-T** · 02-25-2002, 08:38 PM

Question of the day - WTF is a "keto" diet and what is it's purpose?

Thanks

**fitnessman** · 02-26-2002, 01:14 PM

Nice answer CHi.....I really cant add to it.

But I will

Low carb/ Atkins type diets get you to close to a protien for fuel metabolism. We all know this is a bad thing for obvious reasons.

With a keto diet and carb spiking and the other little tricks we keep the body in a positive state of growth. Which we all know is a good thing.

Keep in mind the min. I recommend to anyone is 50g dietary carbs PLUS 30g post work out carbs. Anything less is silly. We are bodybuilders, not an overweight desk jockey.

Not overly scientific, But my brain seems to be cooked today.

T-T do a search.

**Manteca** · 02-26-2002, 02:09 PM

It is a bit more of an issue for me as far as getting in enough carbs because I buy for example 5lbs of ground beef (0 carbs) a **** load of cheese (0 carbs) and maybe some chicken breast (not sure but I think 0 carbs) and I will live off of basically just this for like 4 days. I am trying to incorperate salads into the mix though, I can't resist a good fatty salad, I added egg, diced chicken breast, bacos, cheese and a healthy serving of the fattiest ranch I could find, man is that stuff good and it makes an ideal meal for keto if you mix it in the right proportions.

**Original Poster** · 02-26-2002, 02:58 PM

Damn, I'm getting hungry. All this talk of food.

Oh Yeah, NBD, I eat every 2-3 hrs anyway.

I actually love this 5-7 meals a day thing. I feel like I'm eating all freakin day, but I'm on a diet - LOL

**Tim** · 02-26-2002, 03:11 PM

Doesn't cheese have some carbs (lactose) though not much? I have no problem getting my carbs in because I think that it is absolutely necessary to eat fiberous veggies like spinach and lettuce. But I don't think that it is exactly 50g carbs that I get every day. It might be a little bit less, but not much.

**bigpoppa** · 02-26-2002, 04:00 PM

Here's my keto question: If I lift 3 times a week (Mon Wed Fri) and run 3 times a week (tues thurs sat), should I still have 30 grams protein and 30 grams dextrose after I run? Or should I have strictly whey after I run? I do 30 and 30 after I lift, but I'm not sure whether or not I should after I run if I'm only running that day

**stroudpr** · 02-27-2002, 05:06 AM

just whey

**Manteca** · 02-27-2002, 06:19 AM

I think both, especially on a keto diet

**cortezthekiller** · 02-27-2002, 09:29 AM

First post, woo-hoo.

I've been on my keto for 3 weeks using the ratios and info, I've found on this site, and I've lost 12 lbs, feel great, and honestly haven't had any cravings -- except the first two days. I've opted for going with the 1 cheat meal a week...i.l.o. the 24-36 hr carb load. I love Italian food, so this has basically been the chance for my wife and I to go to our favorite Italian restaurant...where of course I get plenty of carbs in pasta and bread. The problem is, while the food is great, it really effects me... almost like I'm drugged. I'm pretty much shot for the night. The next morning I feel fine, and my workouts are still up to par if not a little better that day. Is this a normal reaction? Or should I be looking for a more balanced "cheat" meal?

I'd like to thank fitnessman, dorian, tim, chi-town, and others for all of your informative posts on this diet.

**fitnessman** · 02-27-2002, 10:10 AM

That "druged" feeling is exactly what you want.

What happens is your body is shooting out a whole bunch of insulin to deal with all the sugar(carbs) you have ingested.

With just the cheat meal its even a little more insulin than a balanced 24-36hr load.

Good job on the weight loss!

**Original Poster** · 02-27-2002, 11:05 AM

That "druged" feeling is exactly what you want.

WOW, I thought I was having a flashback. LOL

cortezthekiller,

The first few times I did my carb-up/cheat meal I had the same druged up feeling. It sort of has ceased though. I think I may just not be noticing it any more.

**fitnessman** · 02-27-2002, 11:13 AM

Cut back on the drugs Chi. and you will feel it again

hehehehehe

**Original Poster** · 02-27-2002, 11:41 AM

I think it was the SJ's.

The people who make them aren't even sure what is in them.

LOL

**wabney** · 02-27-2002, 01:31 PM

Hey Guys HELP!!!

I am on my 9th day of Keto. I had alot of trouble last week as you may have read. OK I bought Keto strips last week and for the first time last night I tested positive. When i woke up this morning tested for keto- negative. The problem is I gained 5 lbs
instead of loosing, 180 to 185, pants are tight; maby it's water. I don't know.
My workout suffered last week but I was back in the gym Sunday, I will go again tommorrow seems that my recovery time has slowed down.

I am 5'7"
185lbs - now! ! !
42 years old
34 waist

Now remember work at night so on workout days I get up at 10:00am and hit the gym, non workout days 12:30Pm

Here was my diet for yesterday

12:30 Protein shake-40g,creatine, 4-0z slice of meatloaf pro-25g
2:30 2-Italian sausage's fat-44g,carb-2g, pro-30g
bowl of sallad - w/cheese and thousand island dressing
6:00 1-Italian sausage fat-22g,carb-1g,pro-15
9:00 1-Italian sausage fat-22g,carb-1g,pro-15
12:00am
1-Italian sausage's fat-22g,carb-1g, pro-15g
bowl of sallad - w/cheese and thousand island dressing
Protein shake -40-g, creatine.
3:30 am - sleep

totals:
Protein-180
fat-110 plus whatever from the cheese
carb-5 plus whatever from the lettuce

I just started taking the creatine about 4 days ago Maby tihis is the prob.

I will really appreciate any help! ! !

Thanks

**Tim** · 02-27-2002, 01:56 PM

Yes, creatine can bloat the hell out of you. Maybe all the sodium in your diet (sausages) may be contributing to the water retention, but I'm not sure about that.

**wabney** · 02-27-2002, 02:30 PM

Hey Tim

firts of all thanks

but I usually don't eat sausage's only maby once every two weeks . My diet mainly consist of lean meats...
but the funny thing is after I ate all those fatty sausages last night was the first time to test pos for keto?????

Think I should drop the creatine for now??

I know from what I have been reading that this diet works really well and I want to stay on it....

**Manteca** · 02-27-2002, 10:13 PM

Originally posted by Tim
Yes, creatine can bloat the hell out of you. Maybe all the sodium in your diet (sausages) may be contributing to the water retention, but I'm not sure about that.

while sodium does initially cause water retention, if you maintain a high level your body will lower this amount of retention to pre high sodium diet levels if you know what I mean. BBers in fact sodium load for like a week or so then completely drop out all sodium right b4 contest to shed tons of water, alot more than they would if they had not been sodium loading.

**fitnessman** · 02-28-2002, 05:07 AM

Water retention and creatine go hand in hand...No big deal.

This is one of the reasons I dont recommend creatine for first time ketoers...It leads to a little confusion. But hey A little water retention is a good thing so dont worry about it.

That a good looking diet wabney!

**wabney** · 02-28-2002, 01:36 PM

Hey guys thanks a million , I was getting confused along with frustrated. But as you said this is my first time on Keto..

I am on like day 10 still not enough results to brag about.
But my workouts are better this week.

I'll give it some more time and see what happens..

peace

**Manteca** · 02-28-2002, 02:41 PM

I'm on day 6 of my keto, finally in ketosis as of today though I think I was yesterday. I've lost 6-7 lbs so far and look really flat but oh well, feeling good, no brain fog. I'm being extra strict so I expect good results. Thanks again fitnessman for all of your help. Also let me say one thing about keto diet, it gets alot easier to do the second time around, 1st your used to the feeling, 2nd you know what to eat. Not bad at all and no hunger despite 2000kcal diet, so far so good, could be the PPA though

**Manteca** · 03-01-2002, 01:49 PM

I decided to carb load this afternoon despite my keto diet because I have an army physical fitness test tommorrow. What is the official word on this kind of cheat. I ate pasta, bread and a coke. all total prolly a couple hundred grams carbs.

**andy1** · 03-02-2002, 08:22 AM

can a couple of you post your actual diets, 2 different ones would be nice, i dont think we all eat the same thing every single day.

feedback would be appreciated.

thanks

**fitnessman** · 03-02-2002, 08:47 AM

Good thinking Manteca! I train alot of military guys, you did the right thing! Hey at 36 I can still get a 300 score(army) That run is getting harder though. I did 102 proper push-ups last time, 86 sit-ups and I was at like 11: something on the run. I am not in the military, I was an Airborne soldier for a few years.....Now I get to bust some ROTC *ss, great fun.......Good luck on the PT test and post your results.

Andy this is my carb up day, but here is what I ate yesterday:
7am post workout shake 30g carb 30g whey
9am 2 whole eggs, 8oz sirloin
12n 8oz chicken, 1 cup spinach
2pm 1/2 cup almonds and 2 slim jims
5pm 12oz pork roast, 3 cups salad with full fat cheese and dressing
8ish BBq pork rinds and some walnuts

**cortezthekiller** · 03-02-2002, 02:00 PM

This is what I ate yesterday:

7:30 am - 3 eggs, 4 strips of bacon

10 am - beef jerky, 1"X3" chunk of cheddar

1 pm- can of tuna w/ two tbsns of mayo,protein shake, lettuce/cucumber salad w/ oil & vinegar

3:00 pm - 3 hard boiled eggs, 1"X3" chunk of cheddar, 1 tbspn natural PB

6:00 pm post workout shake 1-1/2 scoops of whey in 8 oz. cranberry juice.

7:00 pm 10 oz. steak, broccoli

9:30 pm - protein shake, 1 tbsn of nat. PB

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