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  1. #1
    Registered User Carlos0371's Avatar
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    Hi all, Hoping for a little help and advice please?

    **Edit**
    Summary: all the waffle below is background stuff.

    This is basically what I need:
    Mon / Fri - 5 mile bike to work / gym, get there in time to workout and finish by 8am, work, then 5 mile bike home.
    Wed - 1 mile to gym near home, workout can be any time of the day as I'm day off.
    Tue / Thu / Sat - 5 mile bike to work / gym, SWIM, work, then 5 mile bike home.
    Sunday - Football (soccer), but nothing else.

    I'm hoping someone is in a position to offer me some advice on a DETAILED plan / diet that will:
    a) Fit around my work schedule and the fact that I have no choice but to cycle to work, meaning a lot of cardio is unavoidable
    b) Fit in with my meagre family budget and limited meal prep time
    c) Give me decent gains in muscle mass and definition - I don't want to be huge, just well defined upper body and fairly decent abs will do me lol.
    **End Edit**




    I'll try not to make my post boring and tedious, but big apologies if it comes across like that, I just want to get as much info on here as I can.

    Joined here a few years ago and never really got started or motivated myself to do anything about it......now I have, with a vengeance!!

    I'm now 43 (well, tomorrow anyway) and I made a positive decision in January to get rid of my belly fat and rediscover my abs, as well as get some upper body definition. I already have decent legs as I've been a bit of a runner over the years, having been in the Forces and completed a couple of marathons.

    I'm 5' 6" tall, and consider myself "stocky / athletic" build.

    I put myself on a 1200 calorie per day diet (using MyFitnessPal app to keep track), and I immediately cut out bread and beer completely from my diet (I'm a big lager and wine drinker, and LOVE toasted cheese sandwiches lol).

    Main meals have consisted mainly of Quorn with weightwatchers sauces, due to quorn being so cheap, with good protein content, and having so little time to prepare meals, quorn is a quick, healthy, cheap and easy food (and protein) source. Lunch has been (mainly) home made salad, and breakfast is bran flakes, porridge, or eggs depending on my mood.

    I've been drinking protein shakes after exercise (single serving, used "Precision Engineering Whey Protein" when it was on special offer, currently on "The Protein Works" Diet Whey at the moment.

    We're a family of 4 and we don't earn great wages so money is a BIG issue (as I'm sure it is with many people) so going out buying loads of top grade, organically fed beef, steak and chicken isn't an option for us as the cost in the UK is prohibitive for families on a budget.

    I work full time, including EVERY Saturday (retail), so my day off is a Wednesday.

    On Jan 26th I was 164 lbs (11st 10lbs - 74.4kg). Once I started the diet, the weight came off pretty quickly - This Sunday (16th March) I was 145.6lbs (10st 5.6lbs - 66kg) - that's a loss of 8kg, or 1st 4.6lbs in 7 weeks, so I'm pretty proud of myself. I'm not sure of my exact bodyfat percentage, but I do have those bodyfat scales (and yes, I know they're not teribly accurate, but it's all I have at the moment) which say I am currently:
    BMI: 23.4 (was 26.9)
    Bodyfat: 20.3% (was 33.6)
    Water percentage: 58.5% (not sure about this one, up and down all the time).

    I have weighed myself at the same time, every Sunday morning as soon as I get up (after daily ablutions lol), so even if not accurate, at least the figures are comparitive.

    Now, I know that to build mass and muscle I have to lift weights, but cardio is a big issue - I HAVE to cycle to and from work (cannot afford train, no other way of getting there), which is 5 miles each way. Additionally, having joined the local gym 3 weeks ago, their "Induction" was pretty crap - basically 5 minutes showing me how to use the machines!!

    The reason I chose this particular gym is that there is a gym / pool 2 minutes from my work, and a gym / pool just up the road from my house (1 mile), and I can use either of them at any time with my membership.

    I've been swimming regularly (every other day) since starting my membership (although I never was a swimmer) and am getting stronger as I go, although I am aware this is more cardio......

    Gym near work is open from 6.30am-10pm Mon-Fri, 7.30am-7.30pm on Saturday, and 7.30am-9pm on Sunday.
    Gym near home is open from 7.30am-10pm Mon-Fri, 8am-8pm Saturday, and 7.30am-10pm on Sunday.

    I have to be at work by 8.20am Mon, Tue, Thu, Fri and Sat, I finish around 6pm with Wednesday and Sunday off. Monday thru Thursday, and Sunday evenings I have a second job, refereeing at the local 5 a side centre. Also just over a mile from home, I bike there and back.


    Here's how my exercise and nutrition week sort of pans out:
    Alternate days (i.e. Tue/Thu/Sat) - Out of bed 6am, 2 scrambled eggs (or fruit smoothie), banana, water (with vitamin supplements - listed below) then 5 mile bike to work (gym), more water, then 20 minutes swim (can now do around 20 x 25m lengths in 20 minutes) then go to work. On arrival at work, 20-25 push-ups, 15-20 crunches, 30-40 seconds "planking". Protein shake (single 27g serving) with 150ml skimmed milk), then about 15-30 minutes later, porridge (30g oats with 150ml skimmed milk).

    "2nd" breakfast - About 1.5-2 hours later - 2 scrambled eggs on 2 dark rye crackerbread.

    Lunch - Around 1pm - Salad - 100g iceberg lettuce, 40g baby leaf spinach, 30g spring onions, 40g cucumber, 100g cherry or plum tomatoes, 3 slices wafer thin ham (15 calories per slice), 100g sliced chicken (comes frozen, from "Iceland").

    Before leaving work - Banana.

    Finish work 6pm, 5 mile bike home, start my second job. Finish around 9.30-10pm.

    Dinner - (around 10-10.30pm - late to be eating dinner, I know) - Usually some form of quorn, be it chicken style fillets, chicken style pieces, quorn mince etc., cooked in a "weightwatchers" sauce - these are low calorie, low fat, VERY cheap (they do them in "99p Stores" and "Poundland". I have mashed sweet potato, broccoli, Cauliflower, mixed peppers, mixed vegetables etc. and sometimes have a low calorie mini deli wrap (or two) with some low fat yoghurt or quark spread on it. I sometimes swap the above vegetables with rice / pasta, but now realise that carbs this late are BAD!! I'm in the process of switching to Quinoa or Bulgar wheat.

    Before bed - usually to get my calories up I have between 2 and 4 crackerbreads with either salad, cottage cheese, peanut butter, marmite on them. Also Fat free yoghurt with mixed berries or blueberries, either as a dessert or sometimes whilst sitting in bed (usually watching Family Guy lol).


    Monday & Friday - Out of bed 6.30am. Just a banana, plus water and supplements. Everything else as above, bike to work but no swimming.


    Sunday - Out of bed 8am, 2 scrambled eggs on plain crackerbread, water and supplements. I play Sunday league football (soccer to our US friends), but if I'm a sub then I do some extra cardio, usually a 2-3 mile run in the afternoon.

    Lunch - Quorn bacon, quorn sausages, broccoli, 2 poached eggs.

    Dinner - as before.

    I have increased my water intake ten-fold, as I was not drinking enough water before (lucky if I drank a glass a day!) - I now drink between 2-3 litres a day.

    Each morning I take the following health supplements:
    2 x 1000mg glucosamine sulphate
    Multivitamin + Iron (1 tablet)
    1000mg Omega 3 pure fish oil capsule
    1 x garlic capsule (2mg equivalent to 200mg fresh garlic)
    2 x 250mg Korean Ginseng.

    I am getting between 100 and 150g protein a day in my diet - I know I need to make sure I regulate this, but again, there are conflicting opinions in how much.

    I know the obvious, I need to now increase my calories and hit the gym - hard. I've looked online and in books and I've read and read until my eyes bleed, but so many people contradict each other and so many "plans" are just not do-able with my work schedule and having to cycle to work.

    This is basically what I need:
    Mon / Fri - 5 mile bike to work / gym, get there in time to workout and finish by 8am, work, then 5 mile bike home.
    Wed - 1 mile to gym near home, workout can be any time of the day as I'm day off.
    Tue / Thu / Sat - 5 mile bike to work / gym, SWIM, work, then 5 mile bike home.
    Sunday - Football (soccer), but nothing else.

    I'm hoping someone has managed to read this far without falling asleep and is in a position to offer me some advice on a DETAILED plan / diet that will:
    a) Fit around my work schedule and the fact that I have no choice but to cycle to work, meaning a lot of cardio is unavoidable
    b) Fit in with my meagre family budget and limited meal prep time
    c) Give me decent gains in muscle mass and definition - I don't want to be huge, just well defined upper body and fairly decent abs will do me lol.

    I'm not expecting overnight results, but to actually see some results as time progresses would be nice. I know I've lost weight, and I know I've lost SOME belly fat, but my tummy still looks bloated when I relax, and there is fat that I can't seem to shift whatsoever. I'm guessing though that the majority of my weight loss is muscle, as my stomach fat is still there.



    Oh yeah, by the way, as the cycling / swimming / running is going so well, I've decided to do my first Triathlon next month (27th April) which will REALLY throw a spanner in the works lol.

    Here's hoping someone can offer some CONSTRUCTIVE advice.

    Thanks all in advance, and sorry for boring you all.

    Carl.
    Last edited by Carlos0371; 03-19-2014 at 03:28 PM. Reason: Original post too detailed.
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  2. #2
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    Originally Posted by carlos0371 View Post
    i'll try not to make my post boring and tedious.
    epic fail
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  3. #3
    Registered User Carlos0371's Avatar
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    Helpful
    Originally Posted by magic15 View Post
    epic fail
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  4. #4
    Registered User gbk56's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Carlos0371 View Post
    **Edit**
    Summary: all the waffle below is background stuff.

    This is basically what I need:
    Mon / Fri - 5 mile bike to work / gym, get there in time to workout and finish by 8am, work, then 5 mile bike home.
    Wed - 1 mile to gym near home, workout can be any time of the day as I'm day off.
    Tue / Thu / Sat - 5 mile bike to work / gym, SWIM, work, then 5 mile bike home.
    Sunday - Football (soccer), but nothing else.

    I'm hoping someone is in a position to offer me some advice on a DETAILED plan / diet that will:
    a) Fit around my work schedule and the fact that I have no choice but to cycle to work, meaning a lot of cardio is unavoidable
    b) Fit in with my meagre family budget and limited meal prep time
    c) Give me decent gains in muscle mass and definition - I don't want to be huge, just well defined upper body and fairly decent abs will do me lol.
    **End Edit**

    ...


    On Jan 26th I was 164 lbs (11st 10lbs - 74.4kg). Once I started the diet, the weight came off pretty quickly - This Sunday (16th March) I was 145.6lbs (10st 5.6lbs - 66kg) - that's a loss of 8kg, or 1st 4.6lbs in 7 weeks, so I'm pretty proud of myself. I'm not sure of my exact bodyfat percentage, but I do have those bodyfat scales (and yes, I know they're not teribly accurate, but it's all I have at the moment) which say I am currently:
    BMI: 23.4 (was 26.9)
    Bodyfat: 20.3% (was 33.6)
    Water percentage: 58.5% (not sure about this one, up and down all the time).

    I have weighed myself at the same time, every Sunday morning as soon as I get up (after daily ablutions lol), so even if not accurate, at least the figures are comparitive.

    Now, I know that to build mass and muscle I have to lift weights, but cardio is a big issue - I HAVE to cycle to and from work (cannot afford train, no other way of getting there), which is 5 miles each way. Additionally, having joined the local gym 3 weeks ago, their "Induction" was pretty crap - basically 5 minutes showing me how to use the machines!!

    ...


    Thanks all in advance, and sorry for boring you all.

    Carl.
    Okay, so it seems like you lost a good amount of weight and at 5'6" at 145lbs, that seems to be much better than 164lbs (great job). You have a lot of cardio in you life which is not bad.

    I think you goal is to look more fit.

    Your diet calorie wise seems to be okay since you were able to lose a lot a weight. However, you still have a lot of bodyfat.

    The missing component in all this is lifting weights. You seem to have mornings and Wednesdays to lift. I would start by lifting three times a week with compound lifts. Try Starting Strength or any other beginning weight traning program that uses compound lifts and you should be on your way. I would just concentrate on lifting for now and once that has become routine you can take a look at fine tuning your diet. My personal preference would be to maintain your weight and get as strong as possible at that weight. I would not get any heavier given your height and your bodyfat percentage.
    Last edited by gbk56; 03-19-2014 at 11:56 PM.
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  5. #5
    Registered User Carlos0371's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gbk56 View Post
    Okay, so it seems like you lost a good amount of weight and at 5'6" at 145lbs, that seems to be much better than 164lbs (great job). You have a lot of cardio in you life which is not bad.

    I think you goal is to look more fit.

    Your diet calorie wise seems to be okay since you were able to lose a lot a weight. However, you still have a lot of bodyfat.

    The missing component in all this is lifting weights. You seem to have mornings and Wednesdays to lift. I would start by lifting three times a week with compound lifts. Try Starting Strength or any other beginning weight traning program that uses compound lifts and you should be on your way. I would just concentrate on lifting for now and once that has become routine you can take a look at fine tuning your diet. My personal preference would be to maintain your weight and get as strong as possible at that weight. I would not get any heavier given your height and your bodyfat percentage.
    Thanks so much gbk56, that's much more the kind of comment I was hoping for.

    I've looked around the forums, and this "Rippetoe's" workout seems to be the one for me to start with:
    w w w (dot) bodybuilding (dot) com/fun/wotw52.htm

    It fits perfectly into my weekly routine, Mon / Wed / Fri and contains all the compound lifts.

    I'm guessing I should really up my calories now (from 1200) to around 2200 (according to TDEE) with immediate effect on Monday when I start this program?

    When I use the "Find a Plan" app, I get the following:
    (Can't post links as don't have 50 replies yet)
    Build Muscle (Beginner) - steve-cook-big-man-on-campus-12-week-college-trainer
    Build Muscle (Intermediate) - jim-stoppani - shortcut-to-size
    Lose Fat (Beginner) - lee-labrada-12-week-lean-body-trainer
    Lose Fat (Intermediate) - jim-stoppani-six-week-shortcut-to-shred

    Don't know if any of these are preferable, but thought the Rippetoe's would be a good starting point?

    Any additional advice appreciated.

    Thanks again for putting up with a Noob
    Last edited by Carlos0371; 03-21-2014 at 03:30 AM. Reason: Spelling
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  6. #6
    Registered User gbk56's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Carlos0371 View Post
    Thanks so much gbk56, that's much more the kind of comment I was hoping for.

    I've looked around the forums, and this "Rippletoe's" workout seems to be the one for me to start with:
    w w w (dot) bodybuilding (dot) com/fun/wotw52.htm

    It fits perfectly into my weekly routine, Mon / Wed / Fri and contains all the compound lifts.

    I'm guessing I should really up my calories now (from 1200) to around 2200 (according to TDEE) with immediate effect on Monday when I start this program?

    When I use the "Find a Plan" app, I get the following:
    (Can't post links as don't have 50 replies yet)
    Build Muscle (Beginner) - steve-cook-big-man-on-campus-12-week-college-trainer
    Build Muscle (Intermediate) - jim-stoppani - shortcut-to-size
    Lose Fat (Beginner) - lee-labrada-12-week-lean-body-trainer
    Lose Fat (Intermediate) - jim-stoppani-six-week-shortcut-to-shred

    Don't know if any of these are preferable, but thought the Rippletoe's would be a good starting point?

    Any additional advice appreciated.

    Thanks again for putting up with a Noob
    Ripetoe's is a good place to start.

    Personally, I would not change your diet yet. I would first start lifting and see how far you can progress without changing anything (try to maintain your current weight). Once you start to stall in your lifts I would add maybe 200 to 300 cals a day and try to taper back on cardio. Doubling your current calories all of a sudden will most likely result in increasing your fat content and at 20% bodyfat that is probably not where you want to go. I believe your goal right now should be to get as strong as you can at your current weight.

    I think Ripptoe will tell you to up your calories immediately, but his main focus is different from your goals.
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  7. #7
    Registered User Carlos0371's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gbk56 View Post
    Ripetoe's is a good place to start.

    Personally, I would not change your diet yet. I would first start lifting and see how far you can progress without changing anything (try to maintain your current weight). Once you start to stall in your lifts I would add maybe 200 to 300 cals a day and try to taper back on cardio. Doubling your current calories all of a sudden will most likely result in increasing your fat content and at 20% bodyfat that is probably not where you want to go. I believe your goal right now should be to get as strong as you can at your current weight.

    I think Ripptoe will tell you to up your calories immediately, but his main focus is different from your goals.
    Thanks for the reply.

    It's just that my current calorie intake of 1200 per day is geared towards 2lbs weight loss per week. When I start lifting next week, I'll be burning more calories so go further into negative calorific intake, therefore more weight loss?

    Unless I'm misunderstanding something.......?

    Cutting back on the cardio is pretty difficult, as I have no choice but to cycle the 5 miles to and from work. The only thing I could do is trim the extra cardio, which isn't really that much.

    Thanks again for the help.

    EDIT: Also as mentioned, not sure how accurate the Bodyfat measurement is, as it was taken using bodyfat scales, not particularly accurate. Cheers.
    Last edited by Carlos0371; 03-21-2014 at 03:31 AM. Reason: Additional info
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  8. #8
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    Happy birthday.


    I think 1200 is way too low. Go to the nutrition stickies and recalculate.


    10 miles on a bike (unless it's really hilly) isn't so much cardio as to un-do muscle gains. Actually, congrats to you for doing your part ecologically. More people should do this, not less.


    Your protein is low. Grass fed and humanely and responsibly raised and processed meats are more expensive, yes. Conventional supermarket eggs, cottage cheese, and tuna are not. In my early BBing years I lived off these.


    I don't wanna sound snotty, but to get a "detailed" or personalized training and nutrition plan written out for you, you need to hire someone. . Some people here earn their livings that way. They likely aren't gonna do it for free.


    All the info you are seeking is out there for the taking. Good luck on your journey.
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  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by Carlos0371 View Post

    I'm hoping someone has managed to read this far without falling asleep and is in a position to offer me some advice on a DETAILED plan / diet that will:
    a) Fit around my work schedule and the fact that I have no choice but to cycle to work, meaning a lot of cardio is unavoidable
    b) Fit in with my meagre family budget and limited meal prep time
    c) Give me decent gains in muscle mass and definition - I don't want to be huge, just well defined upper body and fairly decent abs will do me lol.

    I'm not expecting overnight results, but to actually see some results as time progresses would be nice. I know I've lost weight, and I know I've lost SOME belly fat, but my tummy still looks bloated when I relax, and there is fat that I can't seem to shift whatsoever. I'm guessing though that the majority of my weight loss is muscle, as my stomach fat is still there.

    Presently you don't need a detailed plan or diet. You just need a consistent progressive program and follow it 3 to 4 times a week until you are no longer able to progress. Then readjust the program to something more suitable after that.

    A) Cardio is not an issue. Eating enough to cover any cardio activity is sufficient at this time.
    B) Food on a budget is nothing new. Many others also have to do this. Me included. But with some thought and searching. You will find that it is in fact possible to eat very well for less than a cart full of packaged oven ready meals.
    C) You don't want to be heyuge. Luckily you aint going to anytime soon then eh.



    Here are a few places to visit to get you started off. Happy birthday by the way.
    Oh and go out and get a cheap digital scale. Will be your companion for a very long time.

    And good luck.


    Pop into here: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=8


    and look at something like Allpro simple beginner routine. From starting off on the right foot, you will be able to build on a solid, progressive routine that will eventually set you up for the long haul.

    With the same importance as training comes nutrition.

    FORUM:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13 <<----- Read ALL the stickies.


    Along with this one.

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=133634471

    Once, after getting through that little lot, you are still looking for questions, then ask away. But most of what you are wanting to know, along with more is covered within them linked walls.

    Again.
    Good luck.
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  10. #10
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    I can't read all that crap. However, the line where you said something about not wanting to get huge- that stuck out like a blinking light. You won't get huge by accident, or by doing pushups for a week like you are Richie on Happy Days. It takes years of dedicated hard work and nutrition just to get to medium sized in shape.

    You are small. Keep focusing on dieting and you will only get smaller. Sure you will get abs, the same way those kids from Africa have abs. You need to lift heavy weights and eat. It doesn't happen any other way. Ever see a bad ass marathon runner?
    Just show up. Move some iron. Put in the time. Eat enough food.
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    You don't want to look like this-

    Just show up. Move some iron. Put in the time. Eat enough food.
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  12. #12
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    We are the same height. I outweigh you by 30 lbs and have a 31 inch waist. My endurance/cardio exercise is Nordic racing in the winter and whitewater kayaking in the summer (my avi pic was taken on the Beaver River in NY state). The poster above is right, you are small. No. 1 - You are not eating for your stated goal (read the nutrition stickies). I'm at about 1000 more cals than you per day. No. 2 You are at the gym three days a week and can work with any of the basic lifting programs that emphasize the major three compound lifts that will pack on mass (provided you get No. 1 dialed in). Beyond that, you can't expect a complete answer to what you have posed on a chat forum. You need to figure out what works for you and you need to do your own homework. Anecdotes from others are simply that. The best "program" for one person may work terribly for you. So you need to understand the basics (read, read, read). Dig around and you will find a proven program that you can work with and that gets you excited. Then you will adjust as you gain more experience and plateau and you understand your body better and how to best motivate yourself.

    People, for example, have different answers when asked whether to cut first then add muscle. You weren't big at 165 to begin with, but you cut your caloric intake. Your amount of cardio is nuts for your low caloric intake and your body is probably stealing the nutrients it needs from your muscles to keep you going. There is no fuel left to grow your muscle. Now that you are habituated to low cal eating, you may well be afraid to eat what you need to grow. I came at it differently. I decided I wanted "early wins" to build momentum, to boost my metabolism. I only started cutting things out afterward to keep moving in the direction of my individual goal. In my case, I started with a lifting program to get stronger first. Then I addressed diet. In my case I chose to attack one habit at a time over time or "doing a little a lot." Personally, to make sustainable change, I needed to make it gradual, not drastic. Once that new habit, became an old one and was automatic then I would address another habit, such as "adding" more protein to my diet, eggs for breakfast etc. I got stronger and switched foods to emphasize more protein and fats. Then I gradually moved away from processed foods to whole foods. Cutting out sugar came relatively easy at that point (I eventually stopped drinking fruit juice but it happened almost by itself easily and naturally - and all this stuff is still around me in the house because my spouse and son still consume all kinds of things I don't). Further along I made changes that were never even within the scope of contemplation when I started the journey more than three years ago.

    So check out the lifting programs on this site. Read up on the nutrition stickies. Peruse the workout journals of the experienced lifters who have taken the time to share their trials and successes and it will give you a sense of the direction you need to take. But no one is going to lay it out on a platter for you (unless you hire someone to do that as someone has already said).

    There is a wealth of information in the articles/workouts sections specifically targeting the Over 40 lifter. It was a great starting place for me. Good luck.
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    🅾🅼🅴🅶🅰 🆆🅴🅰🅿🅾🅽 EjnarKolinkar's Avatar
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    Allpro, starting strength, stronglifts, Lyle Mcdonald generic bulking, no shortage of programs. All you really need to do op is train consistently.

    Try to find maintenence calories with stickies linked ITT and tracking what you eat. Increase cals once your comfortable and make some steady gains.

    Try to have some fun. It takes time, might as well enjoy it.
    The most important aspect of weight training; whether for the athlete, bodybuilder, or average person is to better ones health and ability without injury. - Bill Pearl
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    Registered User JOHN GARGANI's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Carlos0371 View Post
    Helpful
    damn Skippy, it was helpful...because your post WAS an epic fail....

    you joined YEARS ago, and have already wasted those years.....

    you are eating 1200 calories a day, and you want this to be a meaningful discussion???

    I think everyone is being nicer to you than you deserve: what you DO deserve is TOUGH LOVE...

    get cracking...get SOMETHING done, and then you can NARROW DOWN YOUR QUESTIONING.....

    if you want soup to nuts, get yourself a personal trainer/nutritionist......but no, you come on here, after disappearing for a couple of years, and expect us to read a novel, and tell you everything from scratch....

    life doesn't work that way, amigo....so here is your first lesson in tough love: EARN OUR RESPECT.....

    start eating, and start lifting and don't stop and THEN, come on in 3 months with an improvement pic, and again, narrow down your questioning....


    when I started lifting all the way back in 1973, there was NO internet, and all I had to go by were the magazines, but I read every single one of them, every month, cover to cover, and mistakes I might have made, but I lifted my arse off and ate a ton, and 6 months later, I had gained 25 pounds and was considerably better looking than previously, without anyone taking my hand and giving me any personal plans to follow....

    I followed what I could from the mags, BUT: I DAMN DID IT.....

    you do it....and then return, like I said....
    Lift as MUCH as you can, for as MANY reps as you can,
    while in complete control of the exercise.
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    Originally Posted by JOHN GARGANI View Post


    when I started lifting all the way back in 1973, there was NO internet, and all I had to go by were the magazines,
    ^^^This is why I get so much grief when I post here. Everything I have is from bro science. I learned from the guys in the trenches.

    This guy's goal is to lose his belly. He already said he has been living on beer and cheese. The 1200 cals and all that cycling do not bother me in the least for his stated goal of losing his belly as quick as possible.
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    tough to prep for a triathlon on 1200 calories a day and lift heavy as well. I recommend reading Dan John - his Easy Strength routine and/or Program Minimum may meet your liftinggoals in the context of everything else you are trying to do.
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    Originally Posted by Carlos0371 View Post
    Thanks for the reply.

    It's just that my current calorie intake of 1200 per day is geared towards 2lbs weight loss per week. When I start lifting next week, I'll be burning more calories so go further into negative calorific intake, therefore more weight loss?

    Unless I'm misunderstanding something.......?

    Cutting back on the cardio is pretty difficult, as I have no choice but to cycle the 5 miles to and from work. The only thing I could do is trim the extra cardio, which isn't really that much.

    Thanks again for the help.

    EDIT: Also as mentioned, not sure how accurate the Bodyfat measurement is, as it was taken using bodyfat scales, not particularly accurate. Cheers.
    Calorie wise I would adjust so that you maintain your current weight. Seen too many people lose weight then say I am going to lift weights and go crazy on the calories and gain all that fat back. Maybe first week go to 1400, second week go to 1600 etc and monitor how you body reacts. Main point is you do not want to increase your bodyweight at this point. You want to maintain your bodyweight and get as strong as possible at this bodyweight.

    Cardio, I would keep the same for a while until your lifts stall.

    The most important point at this stage is to get into lifting in the 3-6 rep range regularly and the rest will come.
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  18. #18
    Registered User Carlos0371's Avatar
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    Thanks so much for the (mainly) positive help.

    I feel I need to respond to some of the comments in order:

    @Discdoggie; That's what I thought, but as stated, the 1200 calories per day was to lose the weight initially. I've done that now so yes, I need to recalculate my intake. Regarding the cycling, the 5 miles each way is undulating, and I do "go at it", in order to ensure it is a proper cardio workout. I also vary the route to include hill work and HIIT as well. Thanks for the comments.

    @GKC45; Yes I'm small, I wasn't intending to continue dieting, that was purely to lose what I thought was "excess" weight, and I thought dieting was the way to do it - I'm fully aware now that this was the wrong way to do it. PS: Funny pic lol.


    @strongpath; I get that now about my body stealing nutrients from my muscles, I inadvertently thought that because I had improved my diet, upped my protein, reduced my carbs etc. this would counteract that effect - I now know I was wrong and will adjust this accordingly. (PS: I cut out sugar immediately, along with beer and bread).


    @John Gargani; Yes I joined this forum years ago, and although I do value your obvious wealth of experience, please do not judge me for "wasting" those years, as you have no idea of my personal circumstances - Originally I joined the forum to gain access to all the info on here, and I have spent some time trawling through the VAST amount of information on here to find the right plans / workouts, without findong (what I thought was) the right workout for my particular situation. I thought I would be able to do this on my own, but couldn't, as I said, there is a lot of conflicting information and advice all over the place. Hence my VERY detailed post on what I have been doing, and what I was looking for / where I want to go - I DID "get cracking" and I DID get something done. I lost a lot of weight in a short period of time, through a big change in diet and eating habits. I made some mistakes with this, but I did not post my comment looking to be judged by you or anyone else, I came looking for help and advice.

    Yes, I have been on 1200 calories, but I did specifiy that was to lose weight, I'm not stupid enough to think that I could lift and bulk on that amount of calories.

    @lifter629 - Yes my initial goal is to lose my belly fat (more on that later), don't know where you got the idea I've been "living on beer and cheese" though? Not sure I understand the rest of your post......?


    @gbk56; your idea of gradually increasing my calorific intake seems logical and I will do this. Thanks again.


    @DCSpartan; I've tried hard to find this program online but can't, any links at all? Tried the local library and bookshops today as well for a hardback copy but no joy. Are the workouts available on BB.com? All I can find is a small profile page for Dan John.


    @EjnarKolinkar; I will take a look at these, thanks.


    @doughnutgut; Thank you so much, I have gained the most info from your reply, just what I wanted. I have a lot to read up on in bed tonight while prepping and planning for next week. Thanks again.


    Once again though, thanks to everyone for your input, this is a big learning curve for me, and to have the input from people who know what they're talking about makes a difference. I HAVE looked and read until I'm blue in the face, but the comments here are really detailed and help me focus a lot more on what I actually need to be doing to achieve my goal.

    Thank you all.
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  19. #19
    Registered User Carlos0371's Avatar
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    Side note: I ordered a set of Fat calipers, an taking measurements as per the instructions, my bodyfat is 13%.

    @doughnutgut; I have bodyfat scales (mentioned that in my essay), but I understand they're not particularly accurate? In my case it looks like they're WAY off.
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    Folly Lifter. doughnutgut's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Carlos0371 View Post
    Side note: I ordered a set of Fat calipers, an taking measurements as per the instructions, my bodyfat is 13%.

    @doughnutgut; I have bodyfat scales (mentioned that in my essay), but I understand they're not particularly accurate? In my case it looks like they're WAY off.
    BF scales are good for the following.

    1. place scales on floor between legs and near an open window of a top floor.

    2. bend knees and keep the back straight and head facing forward.

    3. Place hands on thus scale with a tight grip.

    4. Swing the hips and with a swinging motion proceed to fling them from the hands towards the window.

    5. go downstairs and clean up the mess.

    Or alternative option is to use them as a handy door stop.

    Buy a mirror and a tape measure.
    Ride it like you just stole it.
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  21. #21
    Registered User DCSpartan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Carlos0371 View Post
    @DCSpartan; I've tried hard to find this program online but can't, any links at all? Tried the local library and bookshops today as well for a hardback copy but no joy. Are the workouts available on BB.com? All I can find is a small profile page for Dan John.
    l.
    if you cant find information about Dan John on the internet you have bigger issues than how many calories a day you take in.
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  22. #22
    Registered User Carlos0371's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by doughnutgut View Post
    BF scales are good for the following.

    1. place scales on floor between legs and near an open window of a top floor.

    2. bend knees and keep the back straight and head facing forward.

    3. Place hands on thus scale with a tight grip.

    4. Swing the hips and with a swinging motion proceed to fling them from the hands towards the window.

    5. go downstairs and clean up the mess.

    Or alternative option is to use them as a handy door stop.

    Buy a mirror and a tape measure.
    lol I guesss by "Digital scale" you meant for the food then haha, sorry, not really with it, long day at work......

    I already have these, swear by them .
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  23. #23
    Registered User Carlos0371's Avatar
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    OK so I've gone with the "AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine" by emmpii8.

    Bearing in mind I have to cycle 5 miles to and from work every day, my workout plan is as follows:

    Mon - am: 5 mile Bike to work (0600-0620), then Gym (0630-0715), then 20-30 min swim - pm: 5 mile bike home.
    Tue - am: 5 mile Bike to work (0800-0820) - pm: 5 mile bike home.
    Wed - (Day Off) - Gym / +30 min swim, NO BIKE.
    Thu - am: 5 mile Bike to work (0800-0820) - pm: 5 mile bike home.
    Fri - am: 5 mile Bike to work (0600-0620), then Gym (0630-0715), then 20-30 min swim - pm: 5 mile bike home.
    Sat - am: 5 mile Bike to work (0800-0820) - pm: 5 mile bike home.
    Sun - Rest (possibly play football, or 3-5 miles running).

    The swimming is mainly because I'm booked in to do my first Triathlon on 27th April, and as I'm not particularly a swimmer, I need to do it. I figure that swimming on the same day as my gym workouts will help recovery.

    I started on Monday, with a short session to find my 10 rep max (after resting Sat / Sunday, apart from cycling to / from work on Saturday).

    My first session wasn't great, I was all over the place trying to work out what weights I should be using, I didn't enjoy the glares and stares from the "regulars" (despite the fact that they all looked about 12 years old and as far as I could see were doing their exercises wrong, I actually felt very uncomfortable working out slowly with my notepad and pen - even slightly intimidated!!), and I'm really feeling it today, all over.

    With that in mind I'm going to use Wednesday and Friday this week as further prep sessions to make sure I get my weights right before starting the program properly next Monday.

    I've also upped my calorie intake to 1400 per day - extremely difficult to do as all of a sudden it feels like I'm spending the entire day eating lol - I'll be upping this gradually at a rate of +200 per week to get to near the calories I should be eating to maintain the exercise and help increase my muscle mass.

    Additionally I'm trying to intake minimum 150g protein (aiming between 150 and 200) and 150-200g carbs per day (40/40/20 split), although this will take a bit of time to perfect as I change my diet and work out my meals / mealtimes. We don't have a lunch break at work, so I have to kind of eat on the go, as and when I can, and this is pretty much at different times every day.

    Any comments appreciated. Thanks for reading.
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    Originally Posted by Carlos0371 View Post
    OK so I've gone with the "AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine" by emmpii8.

    Bearing in mind I have to cycle 5 miles to and from work every day, my workout plan is as follows:

    Mon - am: 5 mile Bike to work (0600-0620), then Gym (0630-0715), then 20-30 min swim - pm: 5 mile bike home.
    Tue - am: 5 mile Bike to work (0800-0820) - pm: 5 mile bike home.
    Wed - (Day Off) - Gym / +30 min swim, NO BIKE.
    Thu - am: 5 mile Bike to work (0800-0820) - pm: 5 mile bike home.
    Fri - am: 5 mile Bike to work (0600-0620), then Gym (0630-0715), then 20-30 min swim - pm: 5 mile bike home.
    Sat - am: 5 mile Bike to work (0800-0820) - pm: 5 mile bike home.
    Sun - Rest (possibly play football, or 3-5 miles running).

    The swimming is mainly because I'm booked in to do my first Triathlon on 27th April, and as I'm not particularly a swimmer, I need to do it. I figure that swimming on the same day as my gym workouts will help recovery.

    I started on Monday, with a short session to find my 10 rep max (after resting Sat / Sunday, apart from cycling to / from work on Saturday).

    My first session wasn't great, I was all over the place trying to work out what weights I should be using, I didn't enjoy the glares and stares from the "regulars" (despite the fact that they all looked about 12 years old and as far as I could see were doing their exercises wrong, I actually felt very uncomfortable working out slowly with my notepad and pen - even slightly intimidated!!), and I'm really feeling it today, all over.

    With that in mind I'm going to use Wednesday and Friday this week as further prep sessions to make sure I get my weights right before starting the program properly next Monday.

    I've also upped my calorie intake to 1400 per day - extremely difficult to do as all of a sudden it feels like I'm spending the entire day eating lol - I'll be upping this gradually at a rate of +200 per week to get to near the calories I should be eating to maintain the exercise and help increase my muscle mass.

    Additionally I'm trying to intake minimum 150g protein (aiming between 150 and 200) and 150-200g carbs per day (40/40/20 split), although this will take a bit of time to perfect as I change my diet and work out my meals / mealtimes. We don't have a lunch break at work, so I have to kind of eat on the go, as and when I can, and this is pretty much at different times every day.

    Any comments appreciated. Thanks for reading.
    Sounds like you are on the right track. Consistency in your weight lifting will be one of the keys to your success.

    You seem to like to write a lot. Maybe you should start a workout journal in the over 35 journal section. That way you could track your progress every day.
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    Registered User Carlos0371's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gbk56 View Post
    Sounds like you are on the right track. Consistency in your weight lifting will be one of the keys to your success.

    You seem to like to write a lot. Maybe you should start a workout journal in the over 35 journal section. That way you could track your progress every day.
    I'll do that.

    The reason I wrote so much at the beginning was to give as much info as possible in order to get the best advice without having to answer loads of questions about lifestyle, when can I train, what am I doing already etc.

    Guess it was a waste of time lol.
    Yes I'm a Noob.

    Yes I've read all the stickies.

    No, I still haven't got a clue that's why I'm asking.
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    Originally Posted by lifter629 View Post
    ^^^This is why I get so much grief when I post here. Everything I have is from bro science. I learned from the guys in the trenches.

    This guy's goal is to lose his belly. He already said he has been living on beer and cheese. The 1200 cals and all that cycling do not bother me in the least for his stated goal of losing his belly as quick as possible.

    Well sht, all he has to do is eat less. His belly (and any muscle he MIGHT have) will all be gone. Easy as that.
    If you poke a bear in the eye, expect a bear like response.
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    UPDATE:

    OK so I started with AllPro Beginner back in March. first 2 weeks went fine then I got injured playing football (soccer to our US friends) and had to rest up off the weights for a week. Then I had my holiday (see other post), followed a week later by my Triathlon. I completed my Triathlon and had to take another week's recovery (due to a ligament injury sustained during training for the Tri).

    Basically, I've only managed to reach week 3 of the cycle with one thing and another before having to rest and then start the program again.

    After another 2 week layoff due to another knee / ligament / football injury I started again last week, on week 1, but did 2 x Heavy workouts (Tuesday and Thursday) and the same this week on week 2.

    I will be back to 3 days next week (week 3) and having taken the major decision to retire from football (which is a MASSIVE thing for me) I hope to eliminate those injuries.

    I have steadily increased my calorie intake over the weeks and am now at 2200 (2400 from next week) and I have an extremely well-balanced diet (most of the time), but I am struggling to achieve the full calorie intake every day.

    Even with my increased calorie intake, I have pretty much put on about 2 pounds in total from when I was at my lowest dieting weight.

    I am burning around 1000 calories a day in cardio and weights / swimming (alternated).

    I work in a shop and we do not get a lunch break, so I have to grab what I can when I can.

    I do prepare my food to bring to work, but I am eating at least 4 meals just while I'm here, but not getting any results whatsoever. (check my Bodyspace profile and you'll see what I mean).

    I really struggle with working out all the macronutrients etc., but here is what I'm eating (and yes, it is pretty much this every day):

    (Diet Boredom alert, sorry but this is the only way I can think of to explain myself and what I'm already doing).
    Breakfast 1: 2 scrambled eggs with cottage cheese before cycling 5 miles to gym.
    Gym: AllPro program followed by Protein shake (made with semi skimmed milk and recently doubled this to 2 scoops, with 200ml milk and 100ml natural yoghurt).
    At work:
    Breakfast 2: 27g instant oats + 150ml semi skimmed milk + 1 banana.
    Breakfast 3: 2 scrambled eggs + cottage cheese.
    Mid morning: 1 tin tuna flakes with low fat salad cream spread on 3 Wholegrain crackerbread (Dark rye Ryvita) with olive spread on the crackers.
    Lunch: 200g Quorn (Chicken style pieces OR mince) cooked in weightwatchers sauce, with 75g brown rice OR pasta.
    Mid afternoon: Banana
    Cycle 5 miles home followed by another Protein shake as above.
    Dinner: 250g chicken breast, 150g spinach, 150g broccoli, 250g sweet potato (either mashed, or in jacket).
    Pre-bed: 100g Cottage cheese, OR fruit in natural yoghurt, OR peanut butter sandwich (wholegrain).

    In the evenings (Mon, Tue, Thur, Sun) I do referee at the local 5-a-side pitches, which means more cardio to get there (running or cycling 1.2 miles each way) as well as whatever I burn off running around while I'm there (although as it's 5-a-side I do try to keep this down a bit)

    Having read, re-read and read again so many articles, threads, posts, stickies etc. on nutrition, I am really struggling to find something that can help me.

    I admit it's only been a few months, but I would have hoped to have seen at least SOME difference? If anything, my bloody belly is even bigger!!!

    I am following the advice already offered on here, but still looking for more ideas?

    I think the problem is where I have to do the gym so early in the morning after having cycled 5 miles, but not sure.

    Thanks for reading (again).
    Yes I'm a Noob.

    Yes I've read all the stickies.

    No, I still haven't got a clue that's why I'm asking.
    Reply With Quote

  28. #28
    Registered User gbk56's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2008
    Age: 54
    Posts: 852
    Rep Power: 296
    gbk56 will become famous soon enough. (+50) gbk56 will become famous soon enough. (+50) gbk56 will become famous soon enough. (+50) gbk56 will become famous soon enough. (+50) gbk56 will become famous soon enough. (+50) gbk56 will become famous soon enough. (+50) gbk56 will become famous soon enough. (+50) gbk56 will become famous soon enough. (+50) gbk56 will become famous soon enough. (+50) gbk56 will become famous soon enough. (+50) gbk56 will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    gbk56 is offline
    Originally Posted by Carlos0371 View Post
    UPDATE:

    OK so I started with AllPro Beginner back in March. first 2 weeks went fine then I got injured playing football (soccer to our US friends) and had to rest up off the weights for a week. Then I had my holiday (see other post), followed a week later by my Triathlon. I completed my Triathlon and had to take another week's recovery (due to a ligament injury sustained during training for the Tri).

    Basically, I've only managed to reach week 3 of the cycle with one thing and another before having to rest and then start the program again.

    After another 2 week layoff due to another knee / ligament / football injury I started again last week, on week 1, but did 2 x Heavy workouts (Tuesday and Thursday) and the same this week on week 2.

    I will be back to 3 days next week (week 3) and having taken the major decision to retire from football (which is a MASSIVE thing for me) I hope to eliminate those injuries.

    I have steadily increased my calorie intake over the weeks and am now at 2200 (2400 from next week) and I have an extremely well-balanced diet (most of the time), but I am struggling to achieve the full calorie intake every day.

    Even with my increased calorie intake, I have pretty much put on about 2 pounds in total from when I was at my lowest dieting weight.

    I am burning around 1000 calories a day in cardio and weights / swimming (alternated).

    I work in a shop and we do not get a lunch break, so I have to grab what I can when I can.

    I do prepare my food to bring to work, but I am eating at least 4 meals just while I'm here, but not getting any results whatsoever. (check my Bodyspace profile and you'll see what I mean).

    I really struggle with working out all the macronutrients etc., but here is what I'm eating (and yes, it is pretty much this every day):

    (Diet Boredom alert, sorry but this is the only way I can think of to explain myself and what I'm already doing).
    Breakfast 1: 2 scrambled eggs with cottage cheese before cycling 5 miles to gym.
    Gym: AllPro program followed by Protein shake (made with semi skimmed milk and recently doubled this to 2 scoops, with 200ml milk and 100ml natural yoghurt).
    At work:
    Breakfast 2: 27g instant oats + 150ml semi skimmed milk + 1 banana.
    Breakfast 3: 2 scrambled eggs + cottage cheese.
    Mid morning: 1 tin tuna flakes with low fat salad cream spread on 3 Wholegrain crackerbread (Dark rye Ryvita) with olive spread on the crackers.
    Lunch: 200g Quorn (Chicken style pieces OR mince) cooked in weightwatchers sauce, with 75g brown rice OR pasta.
    Mid afternoon: Banana
    Cycle 5 miles home followed by another Protein shake as above.
    Dinner: 250g chicken breast, 150g spinach, 150g broccoli, 250g sweet potato (either mashed, or in jacket).
    Pre-bed: 100g Cottage cheese, OR fruit in natural yoghurt, OR peanut butter sandwich (wholegrain).

    In the evenings (Mon, Tue, Thur, Sun) I do referee at the local 5-a-side pitches, which means more cardio to get there (running or cycling 1.2 miles each way) as well as whatever I burn off running around while I'm there (although as it's 5-a-side I do try to keep this down a bit)

    Having read, re-read and read again so many articles, threads, posts, stickies etc. on nutrition, I am really struggling to find something that can help me.

    I admit it's only been a few months, but I would have hoped to have seen at least SOME difference? If anything, my bloody belly is even bigger!!!

    I am following the advice already offered on here, but still looking for more ideas?

    I think the problem is where I have to do the gym so early in the morning after having cycled 5 miles, but not sure.

    Thanks for reading (again).
    In short you need to lift more and make that your priority.

    Right now it seems that your priorites are 1) cardio 2) diet 3) lifting weights.

    Your diet is probably more geared to lifting weights but you are not lifting weights enough. This is probably why you are going nowhere or actually getting fatter.

    If you want to get lean and muscular with low bodyfat you are going to need to hit the weights harder. Make weights your number one priority, then your diet and then cardio. You need to lift more.
    Reply With Quote

  29. #29
    Registered User dangap's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2013
    Location: Australia
    Posts: 99
    Rep Power: 152
    dangap will become famous soon enough. (+50) dangap will become famous soon enough. (+50) dangap will become famous soon enough. (+50) dangap will become famous soon enough. (+50) dangap will become famous soon enough. (+50) dangap will become famous soon enough. (+50) dangap will become famous soon enough. (+50) dangap will become famous soon enough. (+50) dangap will become famous soon enough. (+50) dangap will become famous soon enough. (+50) dangap will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    dangap is offline
    when I started lifting all the way back in 1973, there was NO internet, and all I had to go by were the magazines, but I read every single one of them, every month, cover to cover, and mistakes I might have made, but I lifted my arse off and ate a ton, and 6 months later, I had gained 25 pounds and was considerably better looking than previously, without anyone taking my hand and giving me any personal plans to follow....

    I followed what I could from the mags, BUT: I DAMN DID IT.....

    you do it....and then return, like I said....[/QUOTE]

    My hero
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  30. #30
    Registered User Carlos0371's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2011
    Location: Rainham, Kent, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Age: 50
    Posts: 46
    Rep Power: 0
    Carlos0371 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    Carlos0371 is offline
    Originally Posted by gbk56 View Post
    In short you need to lift more and make that your priority.

    Right now it seems that your priorites are 1) cardio 2) diet 3) lifting weights.

    Your diet is probably more geared to lifting weights but you are not lifting weights enough. This is probably why you are going nowhere or actually getting fatter.

    If you want to get lean and muscular with low bodyfat you are going to need to hit the weights harder. Make weights your number one priority, then your diet and then cardio. You need to lift more.
    I will give it a go, but the cardio is unavoidable, as it's the only way I can get to / from work (5 miles cycle or run each way every day).

    Any advice on an alternative plan to the AllPro beginner I'm on then?
    Yes I'm a Noob.

    Yes I've read all the stickies.

    No, I still haven't got a clue that's why I'm asking.
    Reply With Quote

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