keto diets may cause death?

**criminal** · 02-25-2002, 06:39 AM

Ok here's the deal on ketogenic diets...i dunno much about it except that your body produces ketones when you're on it but while i was studying Hormones for my biology class,i came across this part :
Effects of lack of secretion of insulin - Body oxidizes fats instead of glucose to produce energy and this results in production of poisonous substances called ketones which are excreted in urine.Death can occur.
So the thing is...i've checked up on ketogenic diets and they are basically treatment for epilepsy seizures.Seizures? So what are we doing with it? And if production of ketones may cause death (provided my textbook is good),why are some people on keto diets? Don't be mistaken,i'm very interested in the diet and i wanna follow up on the diet but i'm not sure about anything about the diet so i'm not starting yet except currently i'm taking in minimal carbs everyday.

**criminal** · 02-25-2002, 06:39 AM

bump

**hooty mcboobs** · 02-25-2002, 09:34 AM

Diabetics can sometimes produce ketones while their blood sugar is still very high, resulting in ketoacidosis. This is where the body can't use the glucose in the blood effectively and in turn produces ketones, but they are not used by the body since the blood sugar is very high, and since ketones are slightly acidic, the blood's pH is lowered and death can occur.

Don't worry about that unless you yourself is a diabetic. Otherwise, keto diets are safe and effective. Here's some more reading:

http://www.solid.net/lowcarb/lylemcd/cyclic1.htm
http://www.solid.net/lowcarb/lylemcd/

**NickM234** · 02-25-2002, 01:06 PM

theres alot of myths going around about keto diets. But they are the best for retaining muscle mass.

**ZeroGravity** · 02-25-2002, 01:14 PM

They're not myths. The "Keto diet" is basically the Atkins diet. Which is unhealthy, Especially for anyone who isn't done growing. The keto diet can cause parts of the heart to be eaten away and can easily lead to death.

**damnJeff** · 02-25-2002, 01:32 PM

bump. I'd like somebody elses opinion. (thor, joe, layne, br)

**Big Tony** · 02-25-2002, 05:24 PM

I'd love too see what Dorian or fitnessman have to say aboot this...

**bubbaT** · 02-25-2002, 06:14 PM

people have developed diabeties as well as many other severe health problems from keto diets, it's not worth risking your health just to lose a few lbs.

**bubbaT** · 02-25-2002, 06:16 PM

plus a lack of carbs lowers testosterone

**BiG RED HH** · 02-25-2002, 06:20 PM

A keto diet will not eat away at your heart.

Fitnessman stays on one nearly year round, and has made great gains from it.

Hooty mcboobs is right in what he says.

Low carbs DO NOT LOWER TEST. Low fat lowers test. When your carb to fat calorie ratio is higher then 1:1, test is lowered. When it is at 1:1, it is raised.

Br

**bubbaT** · 02-25-2002, 06:23 PM

actually it is bad for you and br i think i would know just a little bit more about diets than you would

**BiG RED HH** · 02-25-2002, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by bubbaT
actually it is bad for you and br i think i would know just a little bit more about diets than you would

Ahem, how so??

Give me some proof its bad for you. Man has survived w. very little carbs for nearly all of man hood. Many villages still do today.

Give me a day or two, and i will dig up some studies that prove, using athletes, when carb calories to fat calories is 1:1, testosterone is raised. When carb calories are less, test is lowered.

Im waiting.

Br

**bubbaT** · 02-25-2002, 06:36 PM

my grandma went a night without carbs and she died in her sleep

**BiG RED HH** · 02-25-2002, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by bubbaT
my grandma went a night without carbs and she died in her sleep

Sorry about your grandmother.

You though, are a bafoon.

Br

**bubbaT** · 02-25-2002, 06:43 PM

no i'm not a buffoon i was just giving a simple example of how going without carbs can cause death and if it killed an 84 yr old woman imagine what it could do to bodybuilders, you need carbs for energy and plus you feel like **** and really drained when you don't have them

**Big Tony** · 02-25-2002, 07:20 PM

I'd be really interested to hear the results of those studies. It would also be nice if dorian or fitnessman to reply. I was thinking about starting a keto diet on my next cutting phase.

**BiG RED HH** · 02-25-2002, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by bubbaT
no i'm not a buffoon i was just giving a simple example of how going without carbs can cause death and if it killed an 84 yr old woman imagine what it could do to bodybuilders, you need carbs for energy and plus you feel like **** and really drained when you don't have them

You gave me one example. Perhaps your grandmother died of old age. 84 is a long life.

You do not need carbs for energy. Your body can run on fats (both dietary and adipose). Since we are all so used to eating carbs, yes, you will feel like **** at first, but after a while, your body will adjust and you will feel fine. Carbs aren't neccessary for life, Essential amino and fatty acids are.

Br

**ntrlmuscle** · 02-25-2002, 08:42 PM

Originally posted by BiG RED HH

Ahem, how so??

Give me some proof its bad for you. Man has survived w. very little carbs for nearly all of man hood. Many villages still do today.

Give me a day or two, and i will dig up some studies that prove, using athletes, when carb calories to fat calories is 1:1, testosterone is raised. When carb calories are less, test is lowered.

Im waiting.

Br

bump

**Travis Stenersn** · 02-25-2002, 09:06 PM

Ketogenic diets will eat away at your heart? That's got to be the funniest diet/training myth I've ever heard? Who the hell told you that? Santa Clause?

Low carb diets aren't that great for building muscle because you don't have the carbs to get any insulin release. They work wonders for staying lean. Also they have been shown to increase HDL and decrease LDL, lower risk of heart disease and many other good things like that. I'm sorry I have nothing to back up my claim. Go read books by Lyle McDonald and Dr. Mauro DiPasquale, they should answer any questions anyone has about low carb diets.

And bubba, it is never a good idea to use just one example of some anecdotal evidence to support an idea. If my gandmother tried to squat she'd probably injure herself. Imagine what squatting could do to YOU! =)

**Travis Stenersn** · 02-25-2002, 09:10 PM

Another thing, people have not developed diabetes from low carb diets.

People have developed type two diabetes from an unhealthy lifestyle. Years of eating highly processed carbs, like high fructose corn syrop, for example, will cause your muscles to become insulin resistance(this is what type 2 diabetes is, severe insulin resistance) Your body gets so used to the effect of insulin, you become sorta immune to it and you stop producing it. SUGAR is the culprit for our obese and diabetic population.

Type I Diabetes is totally different, and can work out quite well for bodybuilders, since it is much easier for him to control insulin.

**bubbaT** · 02-25-2002, 09:42 PM

they cause death and thats the end of it!!

**Thorazine** · 02-25-2002, 10:25 PM

Man, lots of BS flying around here.

First and foremost, I don't advocate ketogenic/atkins diets, unless they're of the CKD nature (which promotes two days for carb loading).

Anyways, the basic idea is this. You body will use up the glycogen for energy. When there is no longer and glycogen, your body produces ketones which are a PREFERRED energy source. Meaning the burn readily and they are effective. They are also secreted in the urine, so you're basically pissing away calories (if you're trying to lose weight).

Now, death would usually occur due to starvation. It's not like you're going hungry here, or that you ahve to worry about it. You're an active person, so the buildup of ketones won't be an issue.

Low carbs don't lower your test, like BR said. Low fat does...EFA's are great for higher test levels.

The reason man doesn't need carbs is simple. Just look at the enamel on our teeth. If we were meant to eat vegetation and such, it would be a lot thicker to make up for the grit and dirt that may be on our food. Unfortuneatly, this is not the case, as we are MAINLY carnivorous by nature.

Granted, there is an adjustment period, so you'll most likely lose some muscle mass and the like. But when your body adapts to it, it merely comes down to a calorie count again.

Something against them, however, is the discovery that the most effective tool of bodybuilding is the carbohydrate. It is your friend. It will help you get to your goals.

Anyways, chris16 is much more apt to discuss this topic then I am. I personally feel it is an extreme diet, only to be used pre-contest.

However, for others it works great. I just couldn't manage the diet with my lifestyle, so I go about my business.

Thorazine

**bubbaT** · 02-25-2002, 10:49 PM

when you cut carbs out of your diet, your thyroid slows down which means that your metabolism does too!

Complex carbs are the body's preferential source of energy, and their adequate intake is necessary to ensure that protein is properly digested and spared to later provide muscle-nourishing nitrogen. The body breaks down all carbohydrates into glucose. The rate at which they are broken down is very important.
Adequate protein and carbohydrate intake will ensure that your metabolism remains efficient and will help keep you in a fat burning, muscle-nourishing state.

**hooty mcboobs** · 02-25-2002, 11:04 PM

WRONG! Glucose is the brain's preferred energy source, not the body's. You can still get glucose from a keto diet by means of glucogenesis, which is where protein and fats are converted into glucose. Around 40-50% of all protein is converted into glucose anyways. Also, it is very hard to lose weight when insulin levels are high since it inhibits fat release from adipose tissue. Therefore, low carbs are needed so that blood sugar levels remain relatively stable and insulin is not secreted.

**bubbaT** · 02-25-2002, 11:46 PM

.

**Dorian** · 02-26-2002, 08:32 AM

I don't know why I would waste my time here.... but, give me the scientific proof of keto diets causing death. I don't want any watered down bull**** of your grannie.

It is simple if you are not able to prcess fats then you could get sick but that is very few of the population.But death will not result! A keto diet done for bodybuilders is very healthy in many ways, 1 it raises t-levels,2 it will lower cholesterol,3 it will enable fat burning capabilities. The list could go on but that should be enough for now.
When you start to talk **** I wish you would back it up with scientific evidence not "my grandmother died".
Heres the deal If you don't want to use a keto diet then don't who really cares what you do. But don't talk crap to everyone about something you evidently have very little knowledge about.

**joehagyHH** · 02-26-2002, 08:42 AM

im just looking at this thread....and i am shaking my head in disgust

bump on dorian

**fitnessman** · 02-26-2002, 10:44 AM

Man I had tears in eyes I was laughing so hard...

LOL and then some.

Go to the nutrition and losing fat boards and learn something.

**jcolson** · 05-13-2010, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by hooty mcboobs

Diabetics can sometimes produce ketones while their blood sugar is still very high, resulting in ketoacidosis. This is where the body can't use the glucose in the blood effectively and in turn produces ketones, but they are not used by the body since the blood sugar is very high, and since ketones are slightly acidic, the blood's pH is lowered and death can occur.

Don't worry about that unless you yourself is a diabetic. Otherwise, keto diets are safe and effective. Here's some more reading:

http://www.solid.net/lowcarb/lylemcd/cyclic1.htm
http://www.solid.net/lowcarb/lylemcd/

Originally Posted by BiG RED HH

A keto diet will not eat away at your heart.

Fitnessman stays on one nearly year round, and has made great gains from it.

Hooty mcboobs is right in what he says.

Low carbs DO NOT LOWER TEST. Low fat lowers test. When your carb to fat calorie ratio is higher then 1:1, test is lowered. When it is at 1:1, it is raised.

Br

X2 - thanks, someone with sense

Some of this crap is so funny. There are a few guys on here who know what they are talking about having to defend some very basic principles from a whole bunch of morons.

Nobody is going to diet or have their heart eaten up, or lose all of their muscle by following DiPasquales Diet.

Unless of course they have a really messed up prior condition that causes them to be unable to follow ANY diet without danger.

Guys, read the book. DiPasquale is an icon in sports nutrition and steriods. Check out Lyle McDonald as well, looks like hooty mcboobs linked to some threads about him.

**LexWochner** · 05-13-2010, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by jcolson

X2 - thanks, someone with sense

Some of this crap is so funny. There are a few guys on here who know what they are talking about having to defend some very basic principles from a whole bunch of morons.

Nobody is going to diet or have their heart eaten up, or lose all of their muscle by following DiPasquales Diet.

Unless of course they have a really messed up prior condition that causes them to be unable to follow ANY diet without danger.

Guys, read the book. DiPasquale is an icon in sports nutrition and steriods. Check out Lyle McDonald as well, looks like hooty mcboobs linked to some threads about him.

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