Malaysian Airlines flight is missing (Part 2) (MH370)

[hewhodar3s]

So we should be ready for an a380 to come out of nowhere and attack?

It wasn't an Airbus

[Retoaded]

Turbofans rely on air for combustion, which produces thrust - work is extracted in the turbine, spinning the fan which produces most of the thrust.

AF447 stalled due to a high angle of attack, pilot improperly ignored stall warning and pulled back on the stick leading to a loss of airspeed and a stall. Planes can fly at 40000 feet, 747SPs back in the day could've even flown at 50000 feet, it just gets increasingly harder on the airfoil and engines the higher you go.

Last international flight I was on flew at 42,000. Feom this story, I did some research and I now understand thats the cap for the aircraft. Slightly rustled. Will not tell wife.

[rootcon]

It wasn't an Airbus

Right, my bad, 777. What sort of chance are we looking at that this thing could be used in an attack and we should be prepping?

[hewhodar3s]

Right, my bad, 777. What sort of chance are we looking at that this thing could be used in an attack and we should be prepping?

Your guess is as good as anyones TBH, no one has much of a clue what's going to happen!

[DBoss11]

Last international flight I was on flew at 42,000. Feom this story, I did some research and I now understand thats the cap for the aircraft. Slightly rustled. Will not tell wife.

Its perfectly safe, if winds are good at 42000 and the plane is light enough to go that high, there should be no issues. Service ceiling just means the altitude at which the plane will climb at 100fpm at standard conditions - its dependent on engine power, but ~100fpm for most planes. The max certified altitude is the altitude at which a plane can't physically fly anymore, typically a few thousand feet higher than service ceiling.

[rootcon]

Your guess is as good as anyones TBH, no one has much of a clue what's going to happen!

Just scares me because I remember 911 and how everyone was just confused as f that day, and then I read the timeline of that morning and NORAD's response, and was just shaking my head how much fail there was. Just reading it felt like everyone thought we'd never be attacked directly so they weren't prepared and they just didn't take necessary steps quick enough when they were needed

[hewhodar3s]

Just scares me because I remember 911 and how everyone was just confused as f that day, and then I read the timeline of that morning and NORAD's response, and was just shaking my head how much fail there was. Just reading it felt like everyone thought we'd never be attacked directly so they weren't prepared and they just didn't take necessary steps quick enough when they were needed

I wouldn't be too worried, the chances of it getting across the Atlantic are virtually zero, and I don't think it would get very far into Europe before it got taken down either

[rootcon]

Last international flight I was on flew at 42,000. Feom this story, I did some research and I now understand thats the cap for the aircraft. Slightly rustled. Will not tell wife.

Should download the demo to Microsoft Flight Simulator X. You can get an idea of what it takes to stall, how high you can fly, how it handles etc. Quick google search says you can load larger Boeing aircraft onto the demo version.

[Carbonfibre]

How many full time limo / bus / taxi drivers do you think have elaborate driving simulators set up at home? Would it be common, or would that seem unusual to you?

brb need elaborate simulator to drive car. good analogy there.

poking around
http://forum.avsim.net/

there is tons of pilots on there that have simulators at home.

[mazaa]

Holy fukc that'd be scary if terrorists hijacked it, and it was later used in some 9/11 style terrorist attack...

[rootcon]

I wouldn't be too worried, the chances of it getting across the Atlantic are virtually zero, and I don't think it would get very far into Europe before it got taken down either

Or terrorists are reverse engineering it, figuring out how to take it down remotely, and or training on it. Or maybe I watched too many episodes of 24

[SubWooferCooker]

Or terrorists are reverse engineering it, figuring out how to take it down remotely, and or training on it. Or maybe I watched too many episodes of 24

[rootcon]

Holy fukc that'd be scary if terrorists hijacked it, and it was later used in some 9/11 style terrorist attack...

Agreed. Maybe its not paranoid to think theories like this. We never thought 911 could happen, and that thinking led to not having guards up. We have to think outside the box and never forget people are trying to kill us just for living here, that's what we need to learn from 911. Never forget.

[midniteOG]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A291UB20140310

"It was a blow to Austin, Texas-based Freescale. The vanished employees were engineers or specialists involved in projects to streamline and cut costs at key manufacturing facilities in China and Malaysia.

The Freescale employees on MH370 were mostly engineers and other experts working to make the company's chip facilities in Tianjin, China, and Kuala Lumpur more efficient."

The company said that 12 of the 20 are from Malaysia while the other eight are from China.

--

Unless it's a cover story, sounds like they were management types. Story reads like they were just doing efficiency overseeing.

Originally they were american.
Now its an american nased company.... That chit dont matter just like the flight sim

[midniteOG]

nothing to see here guys, this is just marketing for liam neeson's new movie

Lol this movie and this incident with the last words "all right, good night" is like "good luck" from taken

[midniteOG]

There's this theory going around now that the pilots could have (relatively) closely followed another jetliner to hide from radar. If they were close enough and above the leading plane, they could appear as the same blip on radar, avoid the jet stream, and be "sharing" the unaware leader plane's transponder signal. It really ties everything together. The simulator to practice tailing another jet and the fact no one has found the plane.

This guy discovered the possibility and did a write up complete with maps. It's the best theory I've seen so far.

http://keithledgerwood.tumblr.com/po...ing-sia68-sq68

I came up witht that too in the other thread. They can avoid the jet stream by flying lower/higher than other jet. But regardless the plane is somewhere

[ACEthetics]

Well if there's a terrorist attack and they chose to hit Hawaii (since it's the closest part of the US to that area) I'm basically ****ed. Nice knowing y'all.

[deerdiary]

Well if there's a terrorist attack and they chose to hit Hawaii (since it's the closest part of the US to that area) I'm basically ****ed. Nice knowing y'all.

Lmao. Hawaii is the last place on their list (srs). There's literally nothing worth attacking there srs.

[y0lked]

Whoever turned the transponder to "off", whether or not the move was deliberate, did so at a vulnerable point between two airspace sectors when Malaysian and Vietnamese controllers could easily assume the airplane was each others' responsibility.

"The predictable effect was to delay the raising of the alarm by either party," David Learmount, operations and safety editor at Flight International, wrote in an industry blog.

That mirrors delays in noticing something was wrong when an Air France jet disappeared over the Atlantic in 2009 with 228 people on board, a gap blamed on confusion between controllers.

Yet whereas the Rio-Paris disaster was later traced to pilot error, the suspected kidnapping of MH370's passengers and crew was carried out with either skill or bizarre coincidences.

Whether or not pilots knew it, the jet was just then in a technically obscure sweet spot, according to a top radar expert.

Air traffic controllers use secondary radar which works by talking to the transponder. Some air traffic control systems also blend in some primary radar, which uses a simple echo.

But primary radar signals fade faster than secondary ones, meaning even a residual blip would have vanished for controllers and even military radar may have found it difficult to identify the 777 from other ghostly blips, said radar expert Hans Weber.

"Turning off the transponder indicates this person was highly trained," said Weber, of consultancy TECOP International.


The overnight flight to Beijing from Kuala Lumpur is packed year-round with business people, Chinese tourists and students, attracted in part by code-sharing deals, regular travelers say.

The lockdown of MH370 may have begun as early as 40 minutes into the flight at a point when meals are being hurriedly served in time to get trays cleared and lights dimmed for the night.

"It was a red-eye flight. Most people - the passengers and the crew - just want to rest," a Malaysia Airlines stewardess said. "Unless there was a reason to panic, if someone had taken control of the aircraft, they would not have noticed anything."

At some point between 1.07 a.m. and 1.37 a.m., investigators believe someone switched off another system called ACARS designed to transmit maintenance data back to the ground.

While unusual, this may not necessarily raise alarms at the airline and the passengers would not have known that something was amiss, said some of the six pilots contacted by Reuters, none of whom agreed to be identified because of company rules.

"Occasionally, there are gaps in the communications systems and the guys in ground operations may not think much of it initially. It would be a while before they try to find out what was wrong," said one captain with an Asian carrier.

Cutting the datalink would not have been easy. Instructions are not in the Flight Crew Operating Manual, one pilot said.

Whoever did so may have had to climb through a trap door in full view of cabin crew, people familiar with the jet say.

Circuit-breakers used to disable the system are in a bay reached through a hatch in the floor next to the lefthand front exit, close to a galley used to prepare meals.

Most pilots said it would be impossible to turn off ACARS from inside the cockpit, though two people did not rule it out.

Malaysia Airlines said 14 minutes elapsed between the last ACARS message and the transponder shutdown that - in the growing view of officials - confirmed a fully loaded jet was on the run. The ACARS must have been disabled within 16 minutes after that.

In the meantime a voice believed to be that of the co-pilot issued the last words from MH370 and the transponder went dead.


The northeast-bound jet now took a northwestern route from Kota Bahru in eastern Malaysia to Penang Island. It was last detected on military radar around 200 miles northwest of Penang.

Even that act of going off course may not have caused alarm at first if it was handled gradually, pilots said.

"Nobody pays attention to these things unless they are aware of the direction that the aircraft was heading in," said one first officer who has flown with Malaysia Airlines.

The airline said it had reconstructed the event in a simulator to try to figure out how the jet vanished and kept flying for what may have been more than seven hours.

Pilots say whoever was then in control may have kept the radio on in silent mode to hear what was going on around him, but would have avoided restarting the transponder at all costs.

"That would immediately make the aircraft visible ... like a bright light. Your registration, height, altitude and speed would all become visible," said an airline captain.

After casting off its identity, the aircraft set investigators a puzzle that has yet to be solved. It veered either northwards or southwards, within an hour's flying time of arcs stretching from the Caspian to the southern Indian Ocean.

The best way to avoid the attention of military radars would have been to fly at a fixed altitude, on a recognized flight path and at cruising speed without changing course, pilots say.

Malaysian officials dismissed as speculation reports that the jet may have flown at low altitude to avoid detection.

But pilots said the best chance of feeling its way through the well-defended northern route would have been to hide in full view of military radar inside commercial lanes - raising awkward questions over security in several parts of the Asia-Pacific.

"The military radar controllers would have seen him moving on a fixed line, figured that it was a commercial aircraft at a high altitude, and not really a danger especially if he was on a recognized flight path," said one pilot.

"Some countries would ask you to identify yourself, but you are flying through the night and that is the time when the least attention is being paid to unidentified aircraft. As long as the aircraft is not flying towards a military target or point, they may not bother with you."

Although investigators refused on Monday to be drawn into theories, few in the industry believe a 250-tonne passenger jet could run amok globally without expert skills or preparation.

"Whoever did this must have had lots of aircraft knowledge, would have deliberately planned this, had nerves of steel to be confident enough to get through primary radar without being detected and been confident enough to control an aircraft full of people," a veteran airline captain told Reuters.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A2G14020140317

[chevy72blu]

Agreed. Maybe its not paranoid to think theories like this. We never thought 911 could happen, and that thinking led to not having guards up. We have to think outside the box and never forget people are trying to kill us just for living here, that's what we need to learn from 911. Never forget.

I agree with what you are saying, but strong knowledge of 9/11

[BlueSasquatch]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A2G14020140317

"Confident enough to control an aircraft full of people" Wait wut? I thought they all took skydiving lessons by now? Do people actually think they are all still alive? inb4coconut.

[_AdaM_]

Well if there's a terrorist attack and they chose to hit Hawaii (since it's the closest part of the US to that area) I'm basically ****ed. Nice knowing y'all.

paypal me your money brah... I'll look after it

[SurfBrah69]

Lmao. Hawaii is the last place on their list (srs). There's literally nothing worth attacking there srs.

That's what we said about the Japanese

[whiteboyy09]

That's what we said about the Japanese

Our pacific fleet was docked there are you a fuking retard????

[Beast92]

Agreed. Maybe its not paranoid to think theories like this. We never thought 911 could happen, and that thinking led to not having guards up. We have to think outside the box and never forget people are trying to kill us just for living here, that's what we need to learn from 911. Never forget.

People are triying to kill US people because your government keeps fuking up their countries and supporting dictators in their area and sht. The US government pretty much keeps them oppressed in every single way, economical, poltiical, socially, etc...

Thats why they are trying to fuk up the US, they are specifically trying to fuk the regular citizen up because most of the time he believes that the US government is doing the right thing and also because you guys refuse to remove those shady politicians from power (people that are runing their life).

Easy to understand why you are targets of terrorism, srs. Same reason why Spain got their trains fuked

[Phaze2]

if was stolen and taken somewhere how da phuck is not found yet? these world leaders must want a terrorist attack or something to give excuse for another war.

[ACEthetics]

Lmao. Hawaii is the last place on their list (srs). There's literally nothing worth attacking there srs.

Oh yeah, I know. But if the plane only has limited range they might not be able to make it all the way to a different target.

Although 777s probably have a massive range with a full tank of fuel so I shouldn't worry too much.

[SurfBrah69]

Our pacific fleet was docked there are you a fuking retard????

U mad bro?

[TerRyOsuLLivan]

AF447 stalled due to a high angle of attack, pilot improperly ignored stall warning and pulled back on the stick leading to a loss of airspeed and a stall. Planes can fly at 40000 feet, 747SPs back in the day could've even flown at 50000 feet, it just gets increasingly harder on the airfoil and engines the higher you go.

Yeah, and part of the reason it stalled, as I understand, was because the atmosphere generates less lift at higher altitudes. So a high angle of attack at 40,000 feet will generate much less lift than at 1000 feet. To be fair to the pilot in that instance, it was a pretty rare occurrence to suddenyl loose all speed data and enter alternate law, even if pilots are supposed to know how to deal with it. It's just staggering how quickly the whole situation became irreparable.

[Sakeoe]

Agreed. Maybe its not paranoid to think theories like this. We never thought 911 could happen, and that thinking led to not having guards up. We have to think outside the box and never forget people are trying to kill us just for living here, that's what we need to learn from 911. Never forget.

You didn't learn anything from 9/11 did you?