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  1. #61
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    Originally Posted by CarvinTurkey View Post
    Plan on starting this in a few weeks. Exactly what I've been looking for. Will post results after a month or so
    awsome, sounds good bro. let us know what kind of gains you make, and what you like or dislike about it.
    Upper/Lower program write-up:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=160554001&p=1215242691&viewfull=1#post1215242691
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  2. #62
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    Hey. So Ive been looking for a new workout program for a couple of weeks and Ive found this thread. Ive read through the thread and had a go at the program.

    So far I like it a lot (first week), its different from the programs Ive tried before and the exercises are easy to perform.

    The only problem Ive had so far is figuring out how to get better/stronger at pull ups. I cant do 10 pull ups and obviously weighted pull ups are at the moment out of my reach. My question is do you have any suggestions on how to get better and actually get stronger so I manage 10 pull ups.

    So far I have been doing 3 slow reps x 5 sets. Would you suggest keep going at it and trying to progressively add 1 rep each/every second time?

    Also, since I cant do the proper amount suggested, should I add for instance 1 extra biceps/back exercise, like for instance pull downs?

    PS: I have no problem doing weighted dips. I guess my biceps/back muscles are weaker than my triceps...
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  3. #63
    I sweat BCAAs and sea H2O JoeyTS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Punt0 View Post
    Hey. So Ive been looking for a new workout program for a couple of weeks and Ive found this thread. Ive read through the thread and had a go at the program.

    So far I like it a lot (first week), its different from the programs Ive tried before and the exercises are easy to perform.

    The only problem Ive had so far is figuring out how to get better/stronger at pull ups. I cant do 10 pull ups and obviously weighted pull ups are at the moment out of my reach. My question is do you have any suggestions on how to get better and actually get stronger so I manage 10 pull ups.

    So far I have been doing 3 slow reps x 5 sets. Would you suggest keep going at it and trying to progressively add 1 rep each/every second time?

    Also, since I cant do the proper amount suggested, should I add for instance 1 extra biceps/back exercise, like for instance pull downs?

    PS: I have no problem doing weighted dips. I guess my biceps/back muscles are weaker than my triceps...
    it seems many people have an imbalance when it comes to pulling muscles vs pushing. Maybe that is because people always are exited about "how much do you bench?" or have been doing push-up since elementary school-- i dunno...

    If you cannot do weighted, that is fine; you have to start somewhere so do as much as you can with body weight. You can Google various ideas about how to get pullups up. But one old-school way (from the big Arnold book) is to get all your reps no matter how many sets it takes. So break it up into the smaller sets and take a short rest, just what is needed to continue, and so another short set until all the reps are done. On the lighter day I suggest using an assisted pull-up machine if you have one. Please try your best to find an assisted pullup or have a partner spot you by lifting some of your weight from your knees (google other techniques to assist in pullups such as bands etc) , but do whatever you can to be pulling your weight (or as much of it as you can) up instead of giving into the easy out and using a cable pull-down. If no possible way to get assisted pullups in, then try the pulldowns or strait arm pulldowns (I prefer strait arm pulldown to work the lats) and again on heavy days just do what you can with true body-weight pullups even if it is a couple at a time.
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    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=160554001&p=1215242691&viewfull=1#post1215242691
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  4. #64
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    Hi Long time lurker first time poster

    I have been on Kelei's programs for a while and i have decided to give your program a run as its more strength focused. A good mix of strength and Mass

    With your workout (v2.0) I notice you have weighted dips on the heavy vertical day but not tricep rope press downs on the light vertical day. Is that something that i could add? Or does the tri's get hit enough with adding that exercises to the routine?

    Thanks
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  5. #65
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    Originally Posted by JoeyTS View Post
    The Split:

    This is an upper / lower split routine. There are two upper days and two lower days. This means the body is divided (not isolated because it is not possible to isolate parts of the body regardless of the myths stated in magazines) according to predominately upper body days and predominately lower body days. The routine is then further developed with a focus on specific rep ranges and planes of movement. I treat the lifts as either a horizontal push/pull or a vertical push/pull. Each plane of movement will get a heavy day (lower reps heavier weight) and a lighter day (higher reps lower weight). In the basic template the lower body is simply based upon a squat day (heavy push) and a deadlift day (heavy pull) with addition work done to fill out opposing muscle group done on the heavy portion of that day respectively.

    Here is the basic template of this routine (in exercise [sets]x[reps] notation):

    Upper A (heavy horizontal / lighter vertical):
    Bench Press: 5x5*
    Barbell Row: 5x5*
    Standing Overhead Press: 3x10
    Pullup: 3x10
    Barbell Curl: 3x10

    Lower A (heavy push / lighter pull / core):
    Squats: 5x5*
    SLDL: 3x10
    Lung: 3x10
    Weighted 45 Back hyperextensions: 3x10
    Weighted Decline Crunch: 3x10
    Leg Raises: 3x10

    Upper B (heavy vertical / lighter horizontal):
    Push Press: 5x5*
    Weighted Pullup: 5x5
    Incline Dumbbell Press: 3x10
    Barbell Row: 3x10
    Weighted Triceps Dips: 3x10

    Lower B (heavy pull / lighter push / core):
    Deadlift: 5x5*
    Leg Press: 3x10
    Standing Calf Raise: 3x10
    Weighted Back hyperextensions: 3x10
    Weighted Decline Crunch: 3x10
    Weighted 45 Side-bend: 3x10


    NOTE: *denotes after light warm-up sets work sets are ramping sets leading up to one heaviest set (this is further explained in the ramping section).
    All other sets are work sets should be done after warm-ups and any needed acclimation sets (this is explained further in the section regarding progressions and tempo).

    That's going be the core of the program. From time to time a substitution of various closely related/analogous lifts are permitted, but try your best to stick with a given lift until progress stalls in order to accurately use progressive resistance and track progress.

    Can you do 5 x 3 instead of 5 x 5?
    If yes, what benefits & cons does it have?
    Also, instead of pullups, can I do chinups?
    Your's truly

    I repped. Good routine, definitely gonna use it!
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  6. #66
    I sweat BCAAs and sea H2O JoeyTS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OzzyJim View Post
    Hi Long time lurker first time poster

    I have been on Kelei's programs for a while and i have decided to give your program a run as its more strength focused. A good mix of strength and Mass

    With your workout (v2.0) I notice you have weighted dips on the heavy vertical day but not tricep rope press downs on the light vertical day. Is that something that i could add? Or does the tri's get hit enough with adding that exercises to the routine?

    Thanks
    I tried to keep thing focused on bigger more compound lifts and try to get in some Closed kinetic chain exercises were possible. Dips are an awesome closed chain upper body lift and you can slowly build up to adding weight with almost no limit (the chain belt strength would eventually be the only limit but I am sure you could find a sturdy one). The rope pressdowns are a nice isolation for triceps and give a pump, but just more of a isolation finisher than a big mass and strength builder. The triceps get hit hard on all the upper push--over heads, benching, dips--they get a lot of work. Once you progress beyond the intermediate stage of training and have a greater need for volume then they would have a place, but with this program I would recommend just sticking to focusing on adding weight slowly from week-to-week onto your dips.

    Originally Posted by Yuuuuup12345 View Post
    Can you do 5 x 3 instead of 5 x 5?
    If yes, what benefits & cons does it have?
    Also, instead of pullups, can I do chinups?
    Your's truly

    I repped. Good routine, definitely gonna use it!
    I could see where a 5x3 would serve the overall concept of a strength (heavy). The key 2 themes I built this on are planes of movement with big compound lifts and a heavy and lighter day for each plane. Heavy triples are great for strength and could work very well. I recommend to keep it at triple and not start periodizing in doubles then singles. Let us know how it works after a few weeks of subbing in the triples--how you feel, how the what strength gains etc. Start with what you can easily handle without getting near failure and then add small increments week-to-week for as long as can be sustained--this should give some big strength gains.

    I prefer overhand grip pullups because I have found they hit more of the back and lats and a little less bicep than chinups. Both are great closed kinetic chain basic compound lifts for the upper body pulling muscle groups and as such you cannot go wrong with either.
    Upper/Lower program write-up:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=160554001&p=1215242691&viewfull=1#post1215242691
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  7. #67
    Registered User Yuuuuup12345's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JoeyTS View Post
    I tried to keep thing focused on bigger more compound lifts and try to get in some Closed kinetic chain exercises were possible. Dips are an awesome closed chain upper body lift and you can slowly build up to adding weight with almost no limit (the chain belt strength would eventually be the only limit but I am sure you could find a sturdy one). The rope pressdowns are a nice isolation for triceps and give a pump, but just more of a isolation finisher than a big mass and strength builder. The triceps get hit hard on all the upper push--over heads, benching, dips--they get a lot of work. Once you progress beyond the intermediate stage of training and have a greater need for volume then they would have a place, but with this program I would recommend just sticking to focusing on adding weight slowly from week-to-week onto your dips.



    I could see where a 5x3 would serve the overall concept of a strength (heavy). The key 2 themes I built this on are planes of movement with big compound lifts and a heavy and lighter day for each plane. Heavy triples are great for strength and could work very well. I recommend to keep it at triple and not start periodizing in doubles then singles. Let us know how it works after a few weeks of subbing in the triples--how you feel, how the what strength gains etc. Start with what you can easily handle without getting near failure and then add small increments week-to-week for as long as can be sustained--this should give some big strength gains.

    I prefer overhand grip pullups because I have found they hit more of the back and lats and a little less bicep than chinups. Both are great closed kinetic chain basic compound lifts for the upper body pulling muscle groups and as such you cannot go wrong with either.
    Thanks for the reply. I'm going to try triples and see what it feels like.
    Also, I can only do 3x7-9 on pull ups, so I will do chin ups. Since there is more bicep in it, I definitely gonna make 3x10.
    I will give some results in a couple of weeks/months.
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  8. #68
    Registered User OzzyJim's Avatar
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    Ah ok Cool

    Thanks for the reply.



    Originally Posted by JoeyTS View Post
    I tried to keep thing focused on bigger more compound lifts and try to get in some Closed kinetic chain exercises were possible. Dips are an awesome closed chain upper body lift and you can slowly build up to adding weight with almost no limit (the chain belt strength would eventually be the only limit but I am sure you could find a sturdy one). The rope pressdowns are a nice isolation for triceps and give a pump, but just more of a isolation finisher than a big mass and strength builder. The triceps get hit hard on all the upper push--over heads, benching, dips--they get a lot of work. Once you progress beyond the intermediate stage of training and have a greater need for volume then they would have a place, but with this program I would recommend just sticking to focusing on adding weight slowly from week-to-week onto your dips.



    I could see where a 5x3 would serve the overall concept of a strength (heavy). The key 2 themes I built this on are planes of movement with big compound lifts and a heavy and lighter day for each plane. Heavy triples are great for strength and could work very well. I recommend to keep it at triple and not start periodizing in doubles then singles. Let us know how it works after a few weeks of subbing in the triples--how you feel, how the what strength gains etc. Start with what you can easily handle without getting near failure and then add small increments week-to-week for as long as can be sustained--this should give some big strength gains.

    I prefer overhand grip pullups because I have found they hit more of the back and lats and a little less bicep than chinups. Both are great closed kinetic chain basic compound lifts for the upper body pulling muscle groups and as such you cannot go wrong with either.
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  9. #69
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    This should be stickied, great information and thanks!
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  10. #70
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    Question

    could the weight we add each week for the 5x5 be like how it is in Bill starr 5x5? for example one week do it as 4x5, 1x3(+2.5% from previous week){call this weight B for simplicity, 1x8. then next week work up to final set of 1x5 at weight B? or would it be more beneficial to do it as you say in OP?

    also, for the Additional, I was thought about for so focusing on compounds, so for deadlift day: 5x5 deads, 4x10 Front squat, 4x12-15 Leg press (narrow stance), calfs. Would this be okay? If so, what would be good for Squat day? I was thinking Squats 5x5, RDL/SLDL 4x10, either DB lunges or wide stancemachine hack squat 4x12-15, calfs

    would do core/ light cardio on rest days
    Last edited by Bh44; 08-02-2014 at 07:36 PM.
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  11. #71
    I sweat BCAAs and sea H2O JoeyTS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bh44 View Post
    could the weight we add each week for the 5x5 be like how it is in Bill starr 5x5? for example one week do it as 4x5, 1x3(+2.5% from previous week){call this weight B for simplicity, 1x8. then next week work up to final set of 1x5 at weight B? or would it be more beneficial to do it as you say in OP?
    yes, the Starr/Madcow 5x5 style progression is awesome and is something I respect a lot. It is a little more complex and advanced and I tried to keep the progression as simple as possible with the intent of people coming off of thier full-body beginner routines to more into something slightly more complex but easy to follow. The key is consistent small additions and a lot of dedication to give results over time. go for it!


    Originally Posted by Bh44 View Post
    also, for the Additional, I was thought about for so focusing on compounds, so for deadlift day: 5x5 deads, 4x10 Front squat, 4x12-15 Leg press (narrow stance), calfs. Would this be okay? If so, what would be good for Squat day? I was thinking Squats 5x5, RDL/SLDL 4x10, either DB lunges or wide stancemachine hack squat 4x12-15, calfs

    would do core/ light cardio on rest days
    I wouldn't add too much volume. The routines as written look short and light but it is a very decent amount of work and you hit a group twice a week. With that said, I would ramp up to one bog set of 5 for deadlifts (not sure if you meant strait 5x5 or 5 ramping up to 1x5 top set). I would only do 3x10 for the lighter rep work, not 4x10-- make the 3x10 super intense and those 3 work sets will be enough. Start easy and keep making those small progressive resistance increases--it will get to be a heavy workload--and let us know how it works out over time
    Upper/Lower program write-up:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=160554001&p=1215242691&viewfull=1#post1215242691
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  12. #72
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    Originally Posted by JoeyTS View Post
    I wouldn't add too much volume. The routines as written look short and light but it is a very decent amount of work and you hit a group twice a week. With that said, I would ramp up to one bog set of 5 for deadlifts (not sure if you meant strait 5x5 or 5 ramping up to 1x5 top set). I would only do 3x10 for the lighter rep work, not 4x10-- make the 3x10 super intense and those 3 work sets will be enough. Start easy and keep making those small progressive resistance increases--it will get to be a heavy workload--and let us know how it works out over time
    Thanks, I was thinking of doing Shrugs and adding in some forearm/ grip training as I don't want to be using wraps if I don't have to, would these be good to do on one of the off days? or put them in somewhere else?
    i was thinking either shrugs on heavy vertical, or just go in on say the day 4th training day do light cardio/ stretch, shrugs + grip, then full rest day after

    sorry for lots of questions, but I was thinking, as I just started deadlifting 2 weeks ago, do you think I could add 10 lbs per week on it?
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  13. #73
    I sweat BCAAs and sea H2O JoeyTS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bh44 View Post
    Thanks, I was thinking of doing Shrugs and adding in some forearm/ grip training as I don't want to be using wraps if I don't have to, would these be good to do on one of the off days? or put them in somewhere else?
    i was thinking either shrugs on heavy vertical, or just go in on say the day 4th training day do light cardio/ stretch, shrugs + grip, then full rest day after

    sorry for lots of questions, but I was thinking, as I just started deadlifting 2 weeks ago, do you think I could add 10 lbs per week on it?
    Keep the off days as rest, just light cardio as needed. I always found deadlifts worked the grip a lot already. but if you want to add in some grip work, I have found I liked adding it on deadlift day after all my lifting was over. That is how I would do it. As for shrugs, again, deadlifts works the traps a lot, and at this level of lifting I would stick with the stuff written, but if you feel you must shrug then do it on whatever upper day feels like the easiest workload for you (for me I would not add it yet until running the basic template for a few months and milking the gains from that).

    and no problem, ask as much as you need to ask I try to jump on at least once a week at a min and others are always welcome to add their opinions too (some may differ from mine but that is great--we all learn).
    Upper/Lower program write-up:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=160554001&p=1215242691&viewfull=1#post1215242691
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  14. #74
    Registered User CarvinTurkey's Avatar
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    Been running the split for 6 weeks now, I'm really enjoying it. Lifts are all getting better, exspecialy my squat and deadlift. Being summer I've been fairly busy so it's nice to get in the gym 4 days a week and save time for other things. I've been doing some lateral delt work on both upper days, and shrugs on Upper a if I'm feeling it. Other than that I haven't changed much. Solid routine.
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  15. #75
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    Hi Joey

    Would you advocate this to a beginner/novice? I rather an upper/lower split because I'm usually free mon, tue, thur, fri. Also, my goal is geared towards strength, do not really care for mass/bodybuilding. How can I incorporate this routine so that it mimics the goal of Starting Strength? I would like to squat at least twice/week, and I want to do both low/high bar squats.

    Thx
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  16. #76
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    Originally Posted by dreamingg View Post
    Hi Joey

    Would you advocate this to a beginner/novice? I rather an upper/lower split because I'm usually free mon, tue, thur, fri. Also, my goal is geared towards strength, do not really care for mass/bodybuilding. How can I incorporate this routine so that it mimics the goal of Starting Strength? I would like to squat at least twice/week, and I want to do both low/high bar squats.

    Thx
    I'm running this program (with slight modifications), so I'll give you my two cents. This is a great lay out for an intermediate, which by my definition is someone who can not add weight to there lifts every time they go to the gym anymore.

    If you are a beginner/novice, run a full body program, like SS, where you are adding weight to the bar 3x a week vs this program where it is once per week. Then once you have resets your lifts, and can't progress at 3x a week move on to a program like this with once a week progression. Then after this you would move onto something like 5/3/1 with monthly progression. This will give you the fastest result.
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    Registered User dreamingg's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FarmerBrain View Post
    I'm running this program (with slight modifications), so I'll give you my two cents. This is a great lay out for an intermediate, which by my definition is someone who can not add weight to there lifts every time they go to the gym anymore.

    If you are a beginner/novice, run a full body program, like SS, where you are adding weight to the bar 3x a week vs this program where it is once per week. Then once you have resets your lifts, and can't progress at 3x a week move on to a program like this with once a week progression. Then after this you would move onto something like 5/3/1 with monthly progression. This will give you the fastest result.
    Thx for the suggestion. What if I'm not in a rush to progress on the weights? I'm happy if weight is added to the bar once a week. My main concern is can a beginner do this split, without worrying about overtraining or not enough frequency, etc.

    Thx for responses
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    I sweat BCAAs and sea H2O JoeyTS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dreamingg View Post
    Thx for the suggestion. What if I'm not in a rush to progress on the weights? I'm happy if weight is added to the bar once a week. My main concern is can a beginner do this split, without worrying about overtraining or not enough frequency, etc.

    Thx for responses
    I write it to target those people coming off of programs such as Starting Strength. When, as Farmer said, adding weight every workout is no longer possible. Also, when a little more complexity is desired but then due to the additional work, more time is needed for recovery for a given muscle group.

    As a beginner you would be able to hit thing with the lower volume and greater frequency that is found in good full-body routines.

    This does not mean you won;t make gains here, or on any other decent program, it just means that you would likely make faster gains taking advantage of a more aggressive progression and the 3x a week frequency. Nonetheless, lifting is as much an art and it is a science so find what works best for you and your body/schedule.

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1222421671 <--- have a look at this post if you did not happen to catch it.
    Upper/Lower program write-up:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=160554001&p=1215242691&viewfull=1#post1215242691
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    Registered User dreamingg's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JoeyTS View Post
    I write it to target those people coming off of programs such as Starting Strength. When, as Farmer said, adding weight every workout is no longer possible. Also, when a little more complexity is desired but then due to the additional work, more time is needed for recovery for a given muscle group.

    As a beginner you would be able to hit thing with the lower volume and greater frequency that is found in good full-body routines.

    This does not mean you won;t make gains here, or on any other decent program, it just means that you would likely make faster gains taking advantage of a more aggressive progression and the 3x a week frequency. Nonetheless, lifting is as much an art and it is a science so find what works best for you and your body/schedule.

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1222421671 <--- have a look at this post if you did not happen to catch it.
    I'm not too worried about greatest rate of weight progression, once/week is fine for me. I like to do this split because of the planes of movement. I would like to do both low/high bar squats, so is it fine if I do low bar squats on Lower A, and high bar lower B ? (lower B will still definitely have deadlifts). Will this be overtaxing/overtraining/fry CNS?
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    Originally Posted by dreamingg View Post
    I'm not too worried about greatest rate of weight progression, once/week is fine for me. I like to do this split because of the planes of movement. I would like to do both low/high bar squats, so is it fine if I do low bar squats on Lower A, and high bar lower B ? (lower B will still definitely have deadlifts). Will this be overtaxing/overtraining/fry CNS?
    To be honest regarding the overtaxing/over training/cns it will depend on how heavy you are lifting. IMO the only way to answer that though is to try it but as long as you train smart and listen to your body and deload when required I see no issue.

    For reference I squat (low bar) on both lower days, however I change the exercise order and the intensity/reps:

    Lower A
    Squats: 5x5*
    Romanian Deadlift : 3x10
    +Other Stuff

    Lower B
    Conventional Deadlift: 5x5*
    Squats: 3x10
    +Other Stuff

    The issue with swapping exercises can become keeping proper balance (ex. For Lower is not over working Quads/neglecting Hamstrings) if you don't choose proper substitutions.
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    I sweat BCAAs and sea H2O JoeyTS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FarmerBrain View Post
    To be honest regarding the overtaxing/over training/cns it will depend on how heavy you are lifting. IMO the only way to answer that though is to try it but as long as you train smart and listen to your body and deload when required I see no issue.

    For reference I squat (low bar) on both lower days, however I change the exercise order and the intensity/reps:

    Lower A
    Squats: 5x5*
    Romanian Deadlift : 3x10
    +Other Stuff

    Lower B
    Conventional Deadlift: 5x5*
    Squats: 3x10
    +Other Stuff

    The issue with swapping exercises can become keeping proper balance (ex. For Lower is not over working Quads/neglecting Hamstrings) if you don't choose proper substitutions.
    Good stuff Farmer I would rep you, but I already just did recently. I get ay again when I can!
    Upper/Lower program write-up:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=160554001&p=1215242691&viewfull=1#post1215242691
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    Originally Posted by JoeyTS View Post
    Good stuff Farmer I would rep you, but I already just did recently. I get ay again when I can!
    Appreciated Joey! Oh and update on how the program is working for me:
    Upper: I've added 10lbs to my bench 5RM, & 5lbs to my OHP 5RM. Currently have OHP reset and building back up and if I fail again this week on bench will do it also.
    Lower: Hit my previous 5RMs for squats & deadlift. These are both reset and hoping I can get past them.

    If I can't bust the plateau I may consider changing the heavy ramped sets to a 5/3/1 style with monthly increases while keeping the rest of the program the same. Hopefully that is not the case though, want to make as much linear progression prior to moving to periodization as possible.

    One thing I am currently trying with deadlift is I am continuing to just add 5lbs to it weekly even though am only getting 4 reps currently for my last heavy set (5,5,5,5,4). I plan to continue to add weight weekly while keeping the 4 ramped sets at 5 reps each and the last set at 3-5 reps (5,5,5,5,3+). Once I can't hit at least 3 reps on the final set, I will reset it by ~10% and repeat. I am curious to see if this style of progression will allow me to finally break my deadlifting plateau.
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    Thx for responses.
    Taking your advices, please evaluate /critique my split :

    Lower A
    Squat (low bar) 5x3
    Squat (pause high bar): 3x5
    Lunges: 3x10
    Glute ham raise 3-4 sets
    Abs

    Lower B
    Squats (high bar) 5x3
    Deadlift 5x3
    Lunges 3x10
    Glute ham raise
    Abs

    Will post upper later
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    Registered User dreamingg's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dreamingg View Post
    Thx for responses.
    Taking your advices, please evaluate /critique my split :

    Lower A
    Squat (low bar) 5x3
    Squat (pause high bar): 3x5
    Lunges: 3x10
    Glute ham raise 3-4 sets
    Abs

    Lower B
    Squats (high bar) 5x3
    Deadlift 5x3
    Lunges 3x10
    Glute ham raise
    Abs

    Will post upper later
    Upper:

    Upper A (heavy horizontal / lighter vertical):
    Bench Press: 5x5*
    Pendlay Row: 5x5*
    Standing Overhead Press: 3x10
    Pullup (or lat pulldowns): 3x10
    Barbell Curl: 3x10
    Face Pulls: 3x10

    Upper B (heavy vertical / lighter horizontal):
    Overhead Press: 5x5*
    Weighted Pullup: 5x5
    Incline Dumbbell Press: 3x10
    Pendlay/T-Bar Rows: 3x10
    Weighted Triceps Dips: 3x10
    Face pulls: 3x10
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    Originally Posted by dreamingg View Post
    Thx for responses.
    Taking your advices, please evaluate /critique my split :

    Lower A
    Squat (low bar) 5x3
    SLDL/RDL 3x10
    Lunges: 3x10
    Glute ham raise 3-4 sets
    Abs

    Lower B
    Deadlift 5x3
    Squats (high bar) 3x10

    Lunges 3x10
    Glute ham raise
    Abs

    Will post upper later
    I like your upper layer out, should work well but do not like how you have your lower. IMO, for lower I always like to have 1 main lift for my lower day, because after that lift I could never go 100% high intensity on another. So I always make one be my heavy squat, while the other is my heavy deadlift. Lower A is also very quad heavy. You could also add calves at the end of each lower day if you want but not required. If you add them, make one day 'standing calf raise' and the other 'seated calf day' as the focus different muscles in the calf. So i would make the above changes ( or atleast consider them)

    I would also run it L/U/rest/L/U/rest/rest, that way your back/core are fresh and strongest for deads/squats. If you find they are to fatigued for pendlays/t-bar/bb-row on the uppers, switch to a chest supported horizontal row such as DB row leaning on a flat bench, etc.
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    Been on this program for a month now, and making great strength and size gains. All my lifts went up with this program, after I was hitting a plateau for a couple of months on my old program. Thanks a lot!
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    I sweat BCAAs and sea H2O JoeyTS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Zaadpiraat View Post
    Been on this program for a month now, and making great strength and size gains. All my lifts went up with this program, after I was hitting a plateau for a couple of months on my old program. Thanks a lot!
    awesome bro, good to hear!
    Upper/Lower program write-up:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=160554001&p=1215242691&viewfull=1#post1215242691
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    How about doing these same every week?

    Upper
    Bench Press: 5x5
    Barbell Row: 5x5
    Standing Overhead Press: 5x5
    Chinup: 5x5
    Close grip bench press 3x10
    Barbell Curl: 3x10

    Lower
    Squats: 5x5
    SLDL: 3x10
    Lung: 3x10
    Weighted 45 Back hyperextensions: 3x10
    Weighted Decline Crunch: 3x10
    Leg Raises: 3x10

    For 5x5, first 2 sets warmup then 3 working sets.
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    I sweat BCAAs and sea H2O JoeyTS's Avatar
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    how are things going? Anyone run this have results? let me know how it went and what was good, what you liked, and what you did not like. I will work on another write-up next year so feedback is always appreciated
    Upper/Lower program write-up:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=160554001&p=1215242691&viewfull=1#post1215242691
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    Hi Joey, thank u very much for this routine.

    Can I use this routine instead of SS? I like the x10 sets that SS does not have.
    My Squat is 80Kg 5RM, DL 120 and BP 70, so I will probably will make progress with both routines.

    What u think?

    Thanks!

    PD: Would I benefit more with 3x5 straight set or 5x5 ramping?
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