The Chinese Olympic Weightlifting thread

[TSNBTAN]

I see that this has been done before, but with a lot of assumptions and not a lot of fact.

Last night was spent trawling the net trying to get you guys (and me) some details to help us understand their approach.

I wont paraphrase Ill just cut and paste the information for ease of reference with links.

My key takeways relating to the Chinese Weightlifting approach are as follows:

1. They do not employ some secret Shoalin monk type training and there is no one approach by the Chinese coaches.

2. They believe in tonnes of volume.

3. They are very open with their methods the only thing holding the average westerner back from training over there is the language barrier.

4. They dont employ a very strict diet regime in fact I will post a vid later of the men's team having lunch together which consisted of instant noodles, some kind of stew and some other dishes that in no way resembled hand picked Guyanese blue berries (organic) injected with New Zealand Whey protein sourced from grass raised cows (or whatever the man is selling us now)

5. For cultural and socio economic reasons no westerner even a pro could mimic what these guys do 100%. Lets face it repetition and route learning are frowned upon in the west plus who is going to send their 8 year old to some weightlifting camp.

Anyway enough from me, hope you guys enjoy the thread.

[TSNBTAN]

Arriving in China and Meeting Coach Fang
I arrived in China planning to visit my family, namely my elderly grandparents, who all live in Huainan city, Anhui province. This is a relatively small city of ~2 million people. I did not know for sure if there would be any weightlifting facilities accessible to a foreigner in this city prior to coming, but luckily I was put in contact with a man who I will refer to as Coach Fang.

Coach Fang is a former national/international level weightlifter having competed with the Anhui provincial team during his prime, but retired early to start his family. He is now the director of the Huainan city athletics school and acts as the school’s head weightlifting coach… That is if there were any lifters to coach.

WEIGHTLIFTING IN CHINA THRIVES ON THE KIDS IN RURAL AREASCoach Fang tells me weightlifting is not popular in the city as most kids are focused on studies and play recreational sports like basketball, soccer, and ping-pong. Currently, weightlifting in China thrives on the kids in rural parts of the country who see the sport as a way to escape the countryside and possibly earn a living as an athlete to care for their family.

The last time there were lifters training in Huainan, one of them got sent to the provincial team and quit after a few months because it was too much pressure, and the other was pulled out by his grandmother who was concerned about the risk of hurting his back

The facilities in Huainan city, after some cleaning up.

When I met Coach Fang at the athletics school, he was very welcoming. He seemed happy that someone was finally going to use the weightlifting equipment. The gym was just a dusty room with a not yet built weightlifting platform, two areas padded with rubber matting, and a few cigarette butts scattered over the ceramic tiled floor in between. There was a bench for supine pressing, a bench for chest-supported barbell rows [Video], two squat blocks, and a large pile of bumper plates and rusty bars. Coach Fang picked out a 20kg bar that had a bit less rust than the rest and told me to warm up. The bar was freaking cold since there was no heating in this room and several of the windows were broken.

Today’s lessons would be in the full Snatch, and the Back Squat.

Snatch – Overhead Position
When I was warming up with the bar, Coach Fang immediately stopped me and told me to internally rotate my shoulders in the overhead position. This surprised me because I was always taught in the past that externally rotating the shoulders overhead allowed for the most stable position and would allow the bones and joints of the upper extremities to support the weight.

Coach Fang laughed and said that with the elbows pointed down and shoulders externally rotated, the bar is not secure and can be easily missed in front or behind. He said that it is important to always point the elbows back and shrug the shoulders up, keeping the shoulders internally rotated and the bar “locked in place” (See photo of Coach Fang internally rotating my shoulders).

Now if you try this at home with a bar or broomstick, notice how this forces your neck forward and pushes your head way in front? Look familiar?

I will say this now; internal rotation of the shoulders was trend throughout my Chinese weightlifting tour.


Importance of Back Tightness
The next thing he emphasized was the importance of back tightness – from the moment you grip the bar until you receive the down signal, your spinal erector muscles must be rock solid. He noticed in the video I showed him of a recent snatch PR that my back was tight during the pull, but relaxed during in the receiving position

To think, I always thought I had decent mobility, because I could sink my hips low to catch a snatch… Turns out I’ve been cheating by loosening up my lower back, which he said will prevent me from putting heavier weights over my head, and more importantly will put me at risk of injury.

First Pull
As I continued working up in weight on the snatch, Coach Fang commented that my first pull was fine, but to make sure that when the bar comes off the ground, that my shins don’t push it forward and to resist this by pulling the barbell backwards into my shin – he told me this would help increase my back tightness as a side effect.

To think, I always thought I had decent mobility, because I could sink my hips low to catch a snatch… Turns out I’ve been cheating by loosening up my lower back, which he said will prevent me from putting heavier weights over my head, and more importantly will put me at risk of injury.

First Pull
As I continued working up in weight on the snatch, Coach Fang commented that my first pull was fine, but to make sure that when the bar comes off the ground, that my shins don’t push it forward and to resist this by pulling the barbell backwards into my shin – he told me this would help increase my back tightness as a side effect.

Back Squat

Coach Fang said to do some squatting just to keep my body from getting too weak during my trip. When I told him I haven’t tested a one-rep max back squat in over a year, he was not happy.

He started spotting me on every rep of my squats to get a feel for how much force I was putting into the bar, and again he was not too pleased. After a few sets, he told me my priority in training should be to back squat at least 200kg, and that would add more KGs to my total than anything else (I estimate my current max to be around 175kg).

He said that for me, it is even OK to do squats as the first (or only) exercise in a workout.

Squatting Technique
In terms of squatting technique, Coach Fang said to squat down until my hamstrings hit my calves, but not so low that I lose tightness in my lower back.

He told me to try to move my hips in a more vertical motion and not to have too much movement from front-to-back and that if I have to move my hips out of line to reach depth then that is too low as well. He said my center of balance should stay the same throughout the movement.

The chest should be kept high and the back tight but not hyperextended/kyphotic. When standing up out of the hole, push the chest up – not up and back, thus hyperextending the back – just up. This barely made sense when he said it but when I thought about while standing up, things all of a sudden felt lighter.

Since he said squatting should be my priority, he also put in his two cents about programming. Coach Fang suggested:

Back squats 80-85% of 1RM for 8-10 sets of 3-5 reps

I told him I train 4 times per week and usually squat in 3 of those workouts. He said it’s fine to squat 3 times per week, but 2 times is enough (that’s including front and back).

He said that making progress in volume was a good indicator of leg strength improvement, which I did not understand at first but as I learned more about the norms in Chinese training programs, the more I understood what he meant.
(More about how to choose weights in a “Chinese program” will be detailed in further along in the series.)

After squatting came the REAL important stuff.

Triceps extensions
Ok, maybe doing overhead triceps extensions with a 25kg plate was not the biggest lesson from today, but it was still significant.
WEIGHTLIFTERS MUST USE BODYBUILDING EXERCISES TO PROGRESS IN THE SNATCH AND C&J
Coach Fang said that a weightlifter MUST use bodybuilding exercises to progress in the snatch and clean and jerk.

According to him, to elevate the bar you use your quadriceps, glutes, and trapezius (in that order of importance). For every other aspect of the lifts, you depend on your back and your small muscles.

Coach Fang’s prescription includes training one or two small muscles at the end of every workout, stressing the importance of upper back, lats, triceps, obliques, and abs in particular.

The Chinese Method of Bodybuilding?
Choose a body part and do an exercise (preferably isolation) for 6 sets of however many repetitions it takes to get some soreness or just go to failure, with whatever weight feels right. Very scientific, I know.

After I finished lifting, Coach Fang made me jog a few laps around the front entrance garden. This was to loosen me up and cool down after the workout.

General Points
Coach Fang described the Chinese weightlifting technique as:

close
fast
low
balanced
There is no explicit elaboration on lifting technique other than achieving those four points, which refer to keeping the bar as close to the body’s center-line as possible throughout the lift, moving your body and the barbell as fast as possible, keeping your body low rather than lifting the barbell high, and ALWAYS being in a balanced position at any point in the lift and in total control of the bar.

As for the approach to training and programming, Coach Fang said that weightlifting has a strength component and a skill component, but athletes often forget the importance of strength so it is the coaches duty to keep the athlete’s body getting stronger, while it’s the athlete’s job to keep getting their mind stronger.

For protective equipment, Coach Fang said to use only equipment when that particular body part starts feeling sore or weak. For a belt, he said use it when I start losing back tightness during a workout. He was more liberal with wrist wrap use, but only on overhead movements.

In terms of general programming, Coach Fang emphasized the importance of making every rep perfect in training. He said that the national team training programs are not very rigid and allow for a LOT of auto-regulation in terms of reps and weights at the athlete’s own discretion.

As I learned later on, Chinese programs heavily depend on the athlete’s own ability to choose the right weight and reps for a given exercise.

This was my first taste of real Chinese weightlifting, the system that is so often spoken of but rarely described in detail. I definitely only scratched the surface with Coach Fang, but I knew that he would have a lot more answers for me once I asked the right questions.

Next in the Series: Clean and Jerks, Clean Pulls, and the importance of history and culture?

Read Part 2 about Clean & Jerks and Pulls here.

Summary
Technique Cues:

Everything – close/fast/low/balanced.
Overhead position – shoulders internally rotated and shrugged up, head and neck pushed forward.
Snatch – back tight and straight during pull, receive, and recovery.
Snatch – begin the second pull only a few cm below the crease of the hips.
Back Squat – hips travel in a somewhat vertical line and center of balance does not shift during the movement.
Programming Suggestions:

Snatch second pull – hang muscle snatch, hang snatch high pulls, bodybuilding work.
Squats – trained twice per week, front or back.
Back squats – example 80-85% of 1RM for 8-10 sets of 3-5 reps.
Bodybuilding – two muscle groups at the end of each workout, each exercise done 6 sets to failure or boredom.

[MetalMiscer]

No Russian weightlifting, No care

[TNTstrength]

Really interested in this! Keep it up to date and thanks for the good read!

[Rusty56]

awesome part 1 man. Keep it going.

[BoringMath]

Awesome thread.

[TSNBTAN]

Preface:

I grew up in Canada my entire life, but with all of my extended family in China, I visited often. Travelling and seeing different parts of the world has always been a part of my childhood for which I thank my parents – it gives you a sense of perspective when it comes to cultural nuances.

It makes the thoughts of “why do they do that?” become “oh, they do that.” Even in weightlifting there are such moments where something as clear cut as a Clean and Jerk is not seen quite the same way in China as it is back home.

Clean and Jerks
This is by far my worse lift, particularly the Clean, so I was excited to hear what suggestions Coach Fang had for me. As I worked up to a working weight, he didn’t say much about the clean at all.

The first time I asked him how I could improve on my Cleans, he said

Get stronger legs.

The second time I asked him, he said

Make your second pull faster.

The third time,

Stand up quicker.

Eventually he suggested I add some hang power cleans into my programming, which would focus on speed strength and improve the timing of my second pull.

The peculiar thing about training Clean and Jerks with Coach Fang was when he instructed me to do two repetitions, he would get upset when I dropped the bar after the first Jerk.

I said do a double!

After a couple sets, he just shook his head and asked me,

Are you going to keep cleaning the weight between every Jerk?

Finally it clicked. When he said do two Clean and Jerks per set, he meant Clean the weight and then do two Jerks. Throughout the rest of my trip I saw that this was how all Chinese lifters trained Clean and Jerks.

Is this an oddity in their programming? Or a fundamental difference in their view of Clean and Jerks as a movement? My belief is the latter. As for the programming of Cleans, Jerks, and the full movement, that will come up later in the series.

Technical Cues
Coach Fang did give me some technical cues. For the pull, many of the same principles of the Snatch applied to the clean. Keep the bar close to the body at the moment the bar leaves the ground, keep the back tight throughout the lift from the pull to receive to recovery, and produce a short but maximally forceful second pull when the bar reaches the “power point.”

One thing I noticed with both Snatch and Cleans was that I initiated my second pull too early for Coach Fang’s liking. As I prolonged my first pull and waited longer and longer until I accelerated the bar with the second pull, he pointed even higher up on his thigh telling me I was pulling too early still!

Eventually it got to the point where there was barely an acceleration phase at all, and the pull became:

first pull into the power point, and then
immediately finish the pull.
When I started pulling like that, Coach Fang started nodding his head. My previous understanding of pulling mechanics was that the first pull brought the bar above the knees at a steady pace, and the second pull accelerated the bar into the eventual finish at the top of the pull where you fully extend your hips and knees.

Coach Fang’s cues cut out that acceleration phase, resulting in steady bar speed from ground to high thigh, followed by a short and violent burst of power that propels the bar up to the receiving height.

Jerks
SECURE THE BAR WITH INTERNALLY ROTATED AND SHRUGGED UPWARDS SHOULDERSFor jerks, as with the Snatches from last session, Coach Fang instructed me to “secure the bar” with my shoulders internally rotated and shrugged upwards to the point where my neck was shoved forward to the point of discomfort.

With my narrow jerk grip, this overhead position felt extremely stable and I felt in total control of the bar. In the receiving position the centre of balance should be directly over the hips, and the front knee should be at a greater than 90° angle.

The rear knee should be bent but rigid upon receiving the weight overhead. The rear foot should be placed such that the heel is pointed slightly outwards, thus rotating the hip internally and allowing for greater balance and less risk of the rear heel being forced flat onto the ground thus straightening the knee.

Coach Fang described the Jerk with three words:

balanced
forceful
accurate.
These refer to the dip, drive, and receive respectively. While these were not specifically used as cues, I felt it was a good concise depiction of what we see when a Jerk is performed well.

I did 6 sets of doubles at a working weight, and then moved on. Coach Fang felt the most beneficial training for me while visiting would be to critique my technical lifts with light weight, and then maintain my strength with the secondary lifts.

Clean Pulls
IT WAS IMPERATIVE TO PERFORM HEAVY PULLS TO FAILURE ON A REGULAR BASISThere was not much Coach Fang had to say regarding to technique in this exercise, just more of the same as during the Clean. However, he did have a lot to say about programming this exercise.

Coach Fang said that it was imperative to perform heavy pulls to failure on a regular basis. He went as far to say that weight should be added to the bar until your back is rounded during the pull or when the bar won’t be budged off the ground

Obviously this came as a shock to me as not many coaches in their right mind would encourage using weights beyond what could be done with correct form.

Just to be sure, I asked if he was serious about pulling to the point of back rounding and he was completely serious and felt it was important to do so.

He did, however, warn me that if my back loses tightness that I should use less weight on the following set – BUT once you start pulling on a weight you should not stop pulling until you have stood up with it completely or unless the bar stops moving altogether… even if your back starts to round.

On Various Aspects of Strength in Weightlifting
Coach Fang pointed out the various aspects of strength that apply to weightlifting.

There are primary muscles (quadriceps, glutes, and trapezius) that elevate the bar, there are the support muscles (errectors, upper back, core) that allow your primary muscles to exert force onto the bar effectively, and then there are the small muscles (biceps, triceps, pectorals, forearms, etc.) which do not play a distinct role during the lifts but if left untrained will be a limiting factor.

Absolute & Speed Strength
Strength in the primary muscle groups is divided into absolute strength and speed strength (eccentric strength and isometric strength will be mentioned later in the series).

Absolute strength being the largest amount of weight that can be moved regardless of speed, and speed strength being the ability to quickly accelerate a weight to a high speed.

BEGINNERS MUST FOCUS ON ABSOLUTE STRENGTH FOR MANY YEARSCoach Fang believes absolute strength is something beginners must focus on for many years, and that even many of the elite lifters in China must continue to increase their absolute strength to make progress in the lifts.

Heavy singles in Clean Pulls target absolute strength in the three primary muscles as well as the support muscles. While doubles and triples may also be effective in making improvements in strength, singles allow for the largest weight to be handled, which Coach Fang states is the reason for doing this exercise in the first place. Heavy singles also have a role in mental strength, as Coach Fang pointed out that on maximum effort Pulls, the mind often gives up before the body does.

Although absolute strength is a limiting factor for beginners more so than advanced lifters, Coach Fang pointed out that even recently a -77kg weightlifter, coached under one of his colleagues, was mentally weak and so he was prescribed heavy Pulls to failure multiple times per week.

His best lifts were 175/200, however due to his inconsistency, the position on the world team went to Su Dajin.

Coach Fang admits this method is not common for the elite weightlifters of today, but every lifter must prioritize their greatest weakness in training.

Programming Clean Pulls
As for programming, Coach Fang suggested I do heavy Pulls to failure up to 3 times per week using a simple programming method:

Snatch Grip OR Clean Grip Pulls up to 1RM, then 80% x2/2

As for other exercises to strengthen absolute strength, squats were the next most relevant choice.

However, Coach Fang was not insistent on performing heavy back Squats, stating that a max attempt should only be performed on days when heavy weights feel lighter than normal, and you have at least one person to spot you.

PULLS AND SQUATS SHOULD NOT BE DONE IN THE SAME WORKOUTHe was also a fan of using a variety of Squats (Front Squats, back Squats, heavy partials, pause in the hole, and Squat from pins) in conjunction with heavy Pulls.

Pulls and Squats should not be done in the same workout, because the second exercise would suffer – if you squat prior to pulling you will be too fatigued to reach a heavy weight in the pull, and if you pull prior to squatting your back is fatigued and is at risk for injury.

To train speed strength, the staple exercise is the “Fast Pull” – a Snatch/Clean pull with a pull under. However, any pull or lift from the blocks or hang that emphasize the second pull will also train speed strength.

Here is Lu Xiaojun doing the Fast Pulls (Snatch version) with 180kg.

What is the most important thing to learn in life?
Coach Fang asked me this after making me jog backwards around the garden for a few laps. I assumed we were talking about lifting, so I thought out loud “Hmmm, strength? Maybe technique?”

“NO! In life Larry. The most important things to learn are history and culture.”

He then handed me a couple of old books about the early philosophers of China and another about more recent history. Unfortunately I have the reading comprehension of a child who failed Grade 1, so these books might not be of much use.

Before leaving the gym, Coach Fang handed me some more reading material, but these were weightlifting documents and articles he thought would be relevant to my training. I guess I have no choice but to become literate now.

Next in the Series: I travel to the provincial capital and set up shop in the provincial weightlifting team training hall.

Summary
Technique Cues:

Cleans – Back tight and straight throughout entire movement
Cleans – Begin second pull at high upper thigh and should be as quick/short as possible
Jerk – balanced/forceful/accurate
Jerk – centre of balance over hips equally
Jerk – receive with front knee >90o, and rear knee Jerk – overhead position with shoulders internally rotated, shrugged upwards, and head pushed forward
Programming Suggestions:

Absolute strength – Snatch or Clean Pulls up to a 1RM + 80% backoff doubles up to 3 times per week
Speed strength – hang lifts/variations, block lifts/variations, fast Pulls from floor/hang/blocks

[TSNBTAN]

Glad you guys like it, Ive been wondering about the Chinese Oly lifters for years!

To the guy who posted "Not Russian weight lifting, dont care"

Thats cool no worries but how uneventful is your life to have had felt the need to not only click on the thread titled Chinese Weightlifting but also post in it if that was the case?

You really need to have a look at how you spend you time mate.

[TSNBTAN]

Weighted Reverse Plank
october 4, 2013 by gregor 4 comments

Meanwhile in China …

You know that planks (like all static exercises) don’t rank particularly high on my favorite exercises list.

That is unless they are done with extra weight of course.

We saw planks in different variations here, here or even one from Ilya here.

One variation that was missing was the Weighted Reverse Plank:

your shoulders and feet rest on benches
your Chinese buddies stack 25kg plates on your belly
The description of the photo below mentions 50kg, 6 sets of 1 min.

[TSNBTAN]

Early in my weightlifting career, I spent more time with this ugly bamboo stick, doing hundreds of snatches and clean and jerks, daily than I did trying to complete “Adoption of green computing in universities” thesis.

I did this for a full month while I already had a back squat of 140KG. After a month, he finally gave me the barbell, but an empty one. I did plenty of super slow, but perfect repetitions of snatches and clean and jerks.

First pull, controlled but fast. Butt and chest rises at same rate.
Inches before the “pocket”, accelerate even faster and get ready to snap hips up. If you wait till the “pocket” to snap, it’s difficult to produce that amount of power so quickly.
Snap the hips and pull the bar so fast and powerfully, the world spins a little slower
At the same time, open your chest and shrug super hard to reverse the direction
Lock arms and stay strong.
Now my coach was 25 when I first met him, and he had not toned down like other coaches in the 50 or 60 year old range. I’d get yelled at either for slapping the bar with my hips or catching the bar high, but riding it down (something I’ve yet to fix till today). Even tiny but significant technical errors which most coaches go “Oh, its okay. He’ll figure it out” were not tolerated. They believe if you don’t learn perfection or close to perfection today, you’ll learn imperfection. When you learn imperfection, you’re an imperfect lifter. Imperfect lifters, have no place in the competition hall.

Every time you do a bad rep, you teach your body to lift wrongly. Every time I get one ugly lift where I had to chase it, but I made it, my coach gives me this “Ugh! Your existence is a disaster to mankind” look which made me feel horrendous. He then explains the error. I’ll pay extra attention on that weak point and eventually, it becomes my strength as I’m constantly aware of it. That way it’s ingrained so deeply into me, I can visualize the entire movement even while resting. I’ll then reverse the entire movement mentally and repeat the lifting in my mind.

However, certain variability to technique is allowed like the width when catching the bar, certain lifters tendency of having a tinyyyyy arm bend. So long the power produced can be translated to the bar, it was fine.

I cannot go further on technique. Writing about technique is going to make me like another Jillian Michaels Home Fitness DVD. It’ll require much more than writing about it. Take countless hours watching lifters and analyzing the videos from various angles, you’ll see eventually understand good technique.

Difference in technique per individual

In Fujian, narrow grip snatches are taught to improve pulling the bar upwards. It’s highly rare in lifters to bang the bar when cleaning (Unless they’re American football players surrounded by a bunch of screaming partners) By using a narrow grip in a snatch, lifters learn to properly pull UP and not bang forward especially because the distance is much longer to overhead, that by banging the bar, you would never be able to save it.

Some coaches, they believe spinning in circles and then running in a straight line improves the coordination. Some coaches think jumping backwards is fine, some think jumping forward is better than jumping backwards. They just did what was suitable for their lifters. These are minor technical preference of the lifters. What you want is the high first pull, madly powerful second pull and an even faster pull under speed. No coaches I’ve spoken to have ever specifically “taught” the triple extension. They only teach, “First pull high, pop the quads and hip up”. In Mandarin, it’ll sound like “La gao, den dhui, xiang xang”. It’s all about driving the bar helluva high and going under fast.

I remember translating to him once the difference in “catapult” or triple extension, and he analyzed really hard, stared at me and and said “So, what’s for lunch? I’m thinking noodles”

His point was, some of these things are so insignificant to the successful execution of the lift, and it wasn’t worth debating or even creating such a thought. As long as your body’s primary muscles explode and you pull the bar high and receive fast and comfortably, who cares whether your heels leave the floor or not?

Chigishev, Apti Aukadov, Zhang Xiangxiang, are fast as hell, and their feet leave the ground. It’s about consciously trying to pull really fast and go down even faster. Repeat this insanely difficult coordination exercise everyday and you’ll get there.

Here’s my unnecessary two cents on catapult vs triple extension.

When I first read about the catapult technique, I was wondering what the heck the “other” technique was then. I only knew to pop my quads and hips and pull down. That comparison made no sense to me. Only 3 minutes ago, when I learnt that American lifters were taught to plantarflex, it was then I figured what that article meant. No wonder it made no sense before, because I never knew there was any other technique that the world teaches! Honestly, I don’t think the ankle produces much power at all. Also, if you actually consciously try to plantarflex the ankle, you’re only going to shift your weight forward and to counterbalance, your back will snap backwards and jump probably back. Try it and see. If it works for you though and you snatch major weights that way, then go ahead. For me, I tried the “triple extension” technique and I couldn’t return back to earth quickly enough. I tried “catapult” but no matter how hard I tried, my feet left the ground.

I’m not taking any sides of which technique’s better, so please don’t assume. I’m just saying what I learned and what works better for me. I guess it’s a combination of the triple extension and catapult?



Some “errors” in the book, can actually be strengths to other lifters. That’s why not all lifters split jerk. The power jerk is in many ways inferior to the split jerk, but some CAN use it. Just use what works for you. Do take notice of how many times I say “Use what works for YOU and make the best of it” in this entire article. There are many “imperfect” athletes that produce world record shattering records. Usain Bolt and his “average” stride speed, Rybakov’s snatch technique, hips rise too fast but world record holder, Taner Sagir and Wu Jingbiao hyper extending.

I could go on all day, but the point is to make sure the main power drivers are performing as needed. If other variables can be perfected, such as the head not placed forward enough in the snatch or dropping of elbows when jerking then work on them but make sure it won’t mess his or her entire technique up just because of that tiny variable. If it’s something comfortable for the lifter, don’t change it. Use what works best. It’s up to the athlete and coaches to determine if that variable is really worth switching and if its adjustment will have consequently adverse or better results.

[TSNBTAN]

I know you guys have been waiting for this one. What is the magical preparation that makes the Chinese methodology work so well?

The Chinese (Sucks when I have to say, The Chinese when I’m also Chinese just not born as awesome as China Chinese) methods can be extremely unorthodox and the long term effect on the body is not quite known. I have to say, most coaches I see are still very healthy and living without much pain. Even the guy that popularized Chinese weightlifting methods (That old guy you see squatting four plates in his long pants and a towel on his neck) is still alive and well the last I checked. Now what I’m about to write about, will require an open mind not a mind that’s channelled to challenge. If you can do that, read on. Else, stay away.

At the beginning of the athletic career, many exercises that seemingly don’t relate to weightlifting are used.

Athletes at younger ages from 6 onwards, begin from gymnastics work, such as tumbling, handstands, flips and a whole lot of bodyweight work to create a good strength structure. They also sprint and jump to develop their explosive abilities. The coaches believe it’s necessary to start them young, but they don’t lift weights immediately. This is important to ensure the future athletes enjoy their training and consider it as an activity rather than training. Preparing them with many hours of gymnastics and general sports that teach them to use their bodies in somewhat awkward positions such as dancing and wrestling, you train their coordination and help them understand their bodies better. This lasts for about 2 years.

Initially in the first six months, they may play with the stick and practice the pulls and squats under the constant watch of their coaches. It’s probably about 90% playing around and 10% time with the stick. As it progresses, and also depending on the child’s attention span to monotony, it can increase to 30% of the time with the stick practicing technique by the 12th month. The 18th month onwards, the kids start to understand that they have been recruited for weightlifting, and understand the seriousness of their participation in the sport. By now, technique has been pretty solidly ingrained into these kids and they start to toy around with the bar. By now, gymnastics and sprinting by now has dropped to about 15-20% of their activities. This is eventually reduced even more as more time is required for training and getting stronger. By now, these kids are about 8-10 years old.



By estimation, lifters will peak to world level within 8 years of consistent training. This is why you see many young lifters from China. They’re not tortured like how many horror stories of them removed from their homes and forced to train. Only lying retards comes out with such stories. My coach himself was only recruited at 10 because at 9, he was still sprinting and doing long jump and rejected the talent scouts. Only at 10 when he realized his legs were too short for 100M sprints did he decide to join weightlifting instead. They were given a choice albeit based on circumstances they are in; being an athlete is an awesome choice.

From here onwards, the training time increases and becomes more serious. They start from a massive array of exercises from snatch and CNJ, pulls and overhead squats, to duck walks and frog jumps and a ****load of stretching. Training’s pretty standard till the point athletes start lifting 60% of the world record. This takes an estimated 1 ½ – 2 years of training. By now the athlete would have had about 5 years of training and 3 years under the barbell and are about 12-14 years old.

The next phase is the more difficult and complex phase, where plenty of attention must be placed upon the right balance of developing flexibility, power, strength, speed and technique. In the next 4 years, the athlete will continue to develop themselves with hopes to win the Chinese national games. In terms of importance, the Olympics is the pinnacle, the national games is second. The world weightlifting championships come in third. From this point, a lot of athletes have variations in their training.

This huge volume and variety of exercises is used to determine the athlete’s weakest and strongest points. It also is to determine which exercises have the greatest carryover to the snatch and clean and jerk. These athletes will then realize themselves or their coaches will realize the weaknesses they have. It starts from a relatively standard, snatch, CNJ, squat and pull template and starts to change.

The general idea in training at this point in the evening is, 1 1/2 hours of classical lifts, 40 minutes of pulling, 50 minutes of strength work such as squats and bodybuilding work. Each day is spent working on one classic lift. Mornings are generally for power work, balancing and speed.

Weak points will surface; no matter how much people say about sports specific is the best way to train. You don’t want an athlete to train and then die. You want them to be able to enjoy the sport and pass the knowledge to other athletes; else the sport will not grow.

[TSNBTAN]

The Periodization Model

This has gotten repeated questions and the answer is;

They will take their previous training “template” and analyze what was their weakness and slot in an exercise or two or remove an exercise or two that they felt were unnecessary. If results dropped, they would reanalyze what they weren’t doing right in training such as, dropping of snatch high pulls, athlete finds his second pulls weaker. There, they will slot in a few exercises. If results increase, it sticks. 4 weeks of no progression is long enough to warrant a change in training. They do not have a “stone” template that all athletes follow.

The periodization model is the planning of what happens in the athlete’s training depending on the years or period he is in. That’s the standard periodization model. In the Chinese model, it means planning in advance, in order to predict what results they will achieve eventually. The results that they want, such as during this period, this athlete needs to be able to squat, pull, snatch, whatever of a certain amount. The result that’s deemed necessary is from analyzing certain things from the lifter.

Age
Training maturity
Level of strength
Lifting numbers
Weakest link & strongest feature
Then depending on whether the athlete’s in this or that phase, they develop the system. Maybe in this phase the lifter is

21
7 years training
Front squats 200KG, clean pulls 230KG
Snatches 140KG, CNJ 185KG
Mediocre snatch, excellent clean. Extremely aware of body, thus capable of using bounce very well. Suck at second pull in snatch, overhead stability not 100%.
SO with such data, they start to create the program in that phase, with the goal of improving second pull power. Some kettlebell snatches, power snatches, reduce classic snatching to 2 sessions but increase block snatching, hang snatching, pause snatches, high rep (5 reps) snatches under fatigue, snatch high pulls with bend, etc.
That in a way, is the idea of how periodization works in the system.
Too many people believe that periodization means planning in advance, and follow exactly or as close as possible to the designed plan. They believe they can control the results, by making the athlete train in a certain way. Perhaps how many reps and sets, % is all set in. Not how the Chinese believe it. Either they don’t have enough data like the former Soviet crowd, or they have enough data to warrant that, that method is less effective. I don’t know, but I know it works.

Changes can be either in flexibility of lifter, repetition, sets, exercise selection, level of training intensity, ranges of motion, tempo, order of exercise, etc. Things change, all the time. Athletes have as much input to training as do the coaches. After about 5 years, athletes start making their own training templates as they understand themselves better. This is the best, because a coach can only see, not feel what the athletes are feeling. It’s really a feeling thing. You can’t expect an athlete that’s got huge back strength and weak leg strength to use the same model as everyone else.

I’ve come to learn that the internet community agrees with following a pre-determined template from an awesome coach that can predict what will happen in each phase.

Please. This is weightlifting. Don’t be stupid.

Usage of the “Chinese” Periodization Model



Let’s take the average “for fun” weightlifter. I’ll use Caucasians as an example. 180CM tall and 85KGs (you guys are going to have to learn metric, because I’ve already learned pounds and feet). Snatch 110KG, CNJ, 140KG, back squats 200KG, front squats 165KG, 3RM clean pull 180KG, 3RM snatch pull 160KG, push press 110KG. Pretty all rounded, but he’s been stalling for months at his strength.

His weakness has always been receiving the bar overhead and his second pull power is weak

This is his current routine;

Monday – Snatch, CNJ, test to max, 3 attempts. Snatch balance 5×3. Snatch pulls 3×3/1×5/5×3, rows and presses
Tuesday – Front Squats max, 2×2/2×1/5×3, clean pulls 5×3 @ 140% clean, rack jerk 8×1, jerk drives till you die, pull-ups and dips
Wednesday – Snatch max/5×3, snatch pull, hang snatch high pull with rebend, behind neck push press, box jumps
Thursday – CNJ to 1RM/5×2-3 Back Squats max/2×2/6×3, standing press, and rows
Friday – Snatch/CNJ /clean pulls, push press
Saturday – Front squats 5×2-3, sprint, jump, conditioning

Here’s the general idea of percentages;

Always work to a daily 100% single in squats, snatch, CNJ. Then do work anywhere between 85-95% for reps. 85%-3 reps and above, 90%-3 reps, 95% 2-3 reps. 85% is usually for technique work, so don’t stay there too long in the set when your technique feels good.
Pulls are at least 110% higher than classic lifts up to 140%. Anything higher means your technique is retarded, so go fix it. No it doesn’t mean you’re super strong. It means you can’t use your power.
Hell if anything, just let the reps determine the weight. Perfect form, all the time. 1st rep, 3rd rep, 8th rep, 10th rep, whatever. It has to look the same as the first rep.

What my coach would do is;

Increase squat frequency to daily squatting
Do more partial squats, squats from pins or racks
Increase heavy pulling and extended ROM pulling
This is his modified routine;

Monday – Snatch, CNJ, test to max, 3 attempts. Snatch balance 5×3. Front squats, snatch pulls 3×3/1×5/5×3, rows and presses
Tuesday – Back Squats max, block cleans, clean pulls on platform 5×3 @ 140% clean, rack jerk 8×1, jerk drives till you die, and DIE some more, pull-ups and dips
Wednesday – Back squats, Snatch max/5×3, snatch pull, hang snatch high pull with rebend, behind neck push press, box jumps
Thursday – CNJ to 1RM/5×2-3, front squats, clean pulls from block, push press, and rows
Friday – Snatch/CNJ /clean pulls, push press
Saturday – Front squats 5×2-3, sprint, jump, conditioning

By now, the athlete would’ve gotten a stronger squat and pull and his snatch and CNJ would’ve increased. Now to use this newfound strength, by shifting the focus back into his snatch and CNJ and it’ll improve. If it still doesn’t, we’ll analyze again what the weakness is. Perhaps his strength has gone up. All throughout this time, the snatch and CNJ is never neglected.

Most of the time, when they make this change to their routine, they stick to it, and so it becomes their new “routine”. Only difference is maybe they’ll drop a session or two of the strength work and put the work back into the classical movements. Or they switch the placing of the exercises.

Here are a few scenarios you’ll generally have;

Strong but bad technique
Weak but good technique
Strong and good technique
Weak and bad technique
Each group has their own strengths and weaknesses and the model addresses just that. The solutions are relatively straight forward and logical.

Group 1, less strength work, more technique, and more time doing slow partial lifts to ingrain the right mechanics.
Group 2, more time in strength work such as squats and pulls. Workouts can begin with strength work and classic lifts are practiced later.
Group 3 are the easiest to train, but these bunch must be cared for psychologically as the can be hard headed and proud. Always encourage this bunch to try harder to create that advantage as they have a chance in the Olympics, and tell the other athletes in the other groups to chase this particular athlete. Also remind such athletes that the God given superiority doesn’t last forever, but as long as its theirs, make the best of it and train hard. Say the negative in a positive light. It’s not what you say. It’s how you say it.

One may think they’ll eliminate group 4, but that can be untrue. Sometimes these fellows are just slower to develop and suddenly spring back when puberty hits. This group is generally quite rare. By now they would’ve been moved to other sports that suit them better, or streamed into a more education inclined system to guarantee their future.

[Kimhwan92]

http://www.allthingsgym.com/larrys-c...ng-experience/

[TSNBTAN]

^^
There it is. Thanks Kim, there are vids contained within the link so you guys should take a look.

Kim are you Korean, Gae Seki?

[Kimhwan92]

^^
There it is. Thanks Kim, there are vids contained within the link so you guys should take a look.

Kim are you Korean, Gae Seki?

Yeah I'm Korean lmao

[TSNBTAN]

Then dont talk to me in pan mal.

[Silver-Wolfe]

Always been intrigued by Chinese style and philosophy of lifting. If only I can train their coaches. Oh by the way you should probably give credit to people who wrote those articles not just copy and paste.

[GetHimABodyBag]

copy and pastaing Larry's stuff without crediting it?

[GetHimABodyBag]

and kirksman

[TSNBTAN]

copy and pastaing Larry's stuff without crediting it?

Lol you sound like a woman scorned.

I was going to post all the links in one post then the Korean posted it (I wasnt done posting articles yet) I acknowledged the link and went on in life.

You ****ing woman.

[GetHimABodyBag]

Lol you sound like a woman scorned.

I was going to post all the links in one post then the Korean posted it (I wasnt done posting articles yet) I acknowledged the link and went on in life.

You ****ing woman.

no you should give credit to where it is due in the original post you tardbucket of ****. What is the point of posting it all, THEN crediting it? You would have done it by now but you didn't.

you going to credit/link Kirksman stuff too?

lol at your insults, you are clearly in the wrong

[TSNBTAN]

I was posting from a phone.

Why are you getting so emotional, huh scorned woman? Look at my profile pic dummy do you think I'm trying to pass myself off as a chinamen?

[GetHimABodyBag]

I was posting from a phone.

Why are you getting so emotional, huh scorned woman? Look at my profile pic dummy do you think I'm trying to pass myself off as a chinamen?

wow you want to use a offensive term for chinese males (ironic?) and you keep calling me a female.

people give credit when it is not their own, and this concept is lost on you for some reason....dummy

you copy pasta whole posts and make your own posts, but cannot type a single line "this is from ATG Larry's Chinese...." "this is from Kirksman..."

pls go

[TSNBTAN]

Chinamen = chinese man where I live you PC limp wristed homo.

I disclosed in plain English using regular font the fact it was a copy pasta thread in my OP you dimwitted **** for brains.

[TSNBTAN]

lol @ posting over 12000 times and being too beta to.post a pic.

Back to my investigative journalism on chinaman weight lifting.

[GetHimABodyBag]

Chinamen = chinese man where I live you PC limp wristed homo.

I disclosed in plain English using regular font the fact it was a copy pasta thread in my OP you dimwitted **** for brains.

in your own words you said "with links" and you dont have the goddman courtesy to give credit not even with a simple sentence...who is the dimwitted **** for brains now? it has been a long time...so where is the links? 2/22 it is now 3/7, you clearly had no intention.

dont ever use the term chinamen. do a little growing up, would you call Larry and Kirksman that term in their face?

lol @ posting over 12000 times and being too beta to.post a pic.

Back to my investigative journalism on chinaman weight lifting.

this has nothing to do with the thread. no one cares btw because everyone is a regular on ATG, know who Kirksman is, and have seen the thread on Pendlay about another chinese wl experience (maybe you can jack that one too! idiot)

[TSNBTAN]

lol @ thus butthurt chinaman. I don't give a rat's ass about your racial sensitivity. Yeah id say it to their face and I doubt they would care. My wifey is nipponese dumny. Want me to post pics?

In honour of your womanly crybaby antics im going to post heaps of NE Asian sourced expertise all over the net and pass it off as my own. From how to make rice to how to piss off fellow motorists.

[GetHimABodyBag]

I dont give a **** about your personal life.

So again (how many times has it been?), give credit where it is due. Is that too hard or are you really this ignorant/dumb/retart?

You are the baby and woman in this thread, see post 20 and your reaction. I came to you pretty straight up and you respond like the bitch you are.

So are you going to give credit?

I keep owning you, so you result to insults?

Signs of a dumbfuk

[TSNBTAN]

lol @ thus butthurt chinaman. I don't give a rat's ass about your racial sensitivity. Yeah id say it to their face and I doubt they would care. My wifey is nipponese dumny. Want me to post pics?

In honour of your womanly crybaby antics im going to post heaps of NE Asian sourced expertise all over the net and pass it off as my own. From how to make rice to how to piss off fellow motorists.

More negs please. I try to create a decent thread in tumbleweed town and the left leaning PC tards roll on in.

Cliff note. More negs.

[TSNBTAN]

I dont give a **** about your personal life.

So again (how many times has it been?), give credit where it is due. Is that too hard or are you really this ignorant/dumb/retart?

You are the baby and woman in this thread, see post 20 and your reaction. I came to you pretty straight up and you respond like the bitch you are.

So are you going to give credit?

I keep owning you, so you result to insults?

Signs of a dumbfuk

ESL cant be THAT hard.