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  1. #31
    I study things Mike McCandless's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by PricePlow View Post
    Personally, as someone "in" the industry but not the one making the products, I think a lot of you are all crazy for the way you market this stuff.

    Here's my real rant -- please feel free to tear it up.

    Bodybuilders and "bro-builders" are a great market, but I think there's a bigger market in amateur sports athletes. The zillions of kids playing club soccer... and maybe his soccer mom if you're lucky.

    While you guys are bickering about "SAA vs BCAA" (which is a legit argument), it's a total boner move in the big picture. The word "Amino acids" simply scares "regular" people for whatever reason... and now you're throwing 7 letters worth of acronyms at them. Good luck selling that to concerned soccer mom... the woman who's go the cash, BTW.
    I have zero desire to sell BCAA's to kids. It's not our demo nor the market we go after. There is more value in the older generation, not the younger.

    Now we're stuck eating each other's lunch, going after the same 27 year old bodybuilder who happens to be on a caloric deficit... or doing some BS borderline-unethical marketing about taking this during a bulk. Either way, it's too small of a market and what you get are all of us companies taking giant dumps all over each others' carpets.
    Depends on how you define bodybuilder. The biggest mistake most companies make is thinking their a brand, when they're not.

    So rather than mess with his nonsense, MusclePharm starts branding Amino1 as "The Athlete's Cocktail". A less scary name, and definitely a shift. And now it's in Costco... queue itsbeginning.gif
    MP has lost 50 million dollars since inception. Not sure they're a model anyone can realistically follow. Their distribution has nothing to do with being successful as much as loss leading. Such as losing 16m one year on 4m in revenue.

    So my question to the Mike McCandlesses and Vaughns out there... who's gonna sack up and take it a full nine and just rebrand this as a "SPORTS DRINK" and go after a totally new market? Why not?
    Sack up? What, are we 5 years old? The reason bcaa's RTD's haven't been made in efficacious doses is stability. We've worked on it for 18 months as a combo project with Glanbia. The downside is that means ABB will get it, but is what it is. We couldn't have done it without their assistance. We're still flavoring at this point.
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  2. #32
    Deal Hunter PricePlow's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mike McCandless View Post
    I have zero desire to sell BCAA's to kids. It's not our demo nor the market we go after. There is more value in the older generation, not the younger.

    Depends on how you define bodybuilder. The biggest mistake most companies make is thinking their a brand, when they're not.

    MP has lost 50 million dollars since inception. Not sure they're a model anyone can realistically follow. Their distribution has nothing to do with being successful as much as loss leading. Such as losing 16m one year on 4m in revenue.

    Sack up? What, are we 5 years old? The reason bcaa's RTD's haven't been made in efficacious doses is stability. We've worked on it for 18 months as a combo project with Glanbia. The downside is that means ABB will get it, but is what it is. We couldn't have done it without their assistance. We're still flavoring at this point.
    Hey Mike, I didn't mean for that to come off insulting, I was definitely fired up this morning.

    What I was saying is that I think that BCAAs deserve to be in the hands of sports athletes. With that comes the kids... because kids look up to those types of athletes. Right now, people only find them BCAAs if actively research and know to look for them, and I think that's a shame. The products/companies that aggressively market to this athlete market are basically salted sugar junk.

    Noted on MP... I thought they were back in the black, but forgot that it's due to massive investment, not revenue.

    Anyway, very happy to hear that you're indeed working on it. That is sacking up. I think it's a risk worth taking - didn't realize it'd take a behemoth to make it happen. Sorry I came off overzealous
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  3. #33
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    Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    it'll happen, they'll be extremely underdosed, and prices will skyrocket past what they already are(which is WAY higher than just 2-3 years ago).
    This, like all "mainstream" products will be low dosed.
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  4. #34
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    what no one discusses, but is of course the most important question, is whether BCAAs are stable in solution for extended periods. We all know that creatine in water goes bad in, what, 24 hours or less? What it converts to is creatinine, which is not a helpful thing to be consuming. When you see an RTD on the shelf that has been sitting in various temperatures for weeks or months on end, do you really think that all the aminos and other ingredients have not destabilized? Do you think that the companies selling these products really care if the label ingredients are still bioavailable for human consumption? Who is going to know? As long as the product tastes alright, no one will even question it.
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  5. #35
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    Originally Posted by optimus1 View Post
    what no one discusses, but is of course the most important question, is whether BCAAs are stable in solution for extended periods. We all know that creatine in water goes bad in, what, 24 hours or less? What it converts to is creatinine, which is not a helpful thing to be consuming. When you see an RTD on the shelf that has been sitting in various temperatures for weeks or months on end, do you really think that all the aminos and other ingredients have not destabilized? Do you think that the companies selling these products really care if the label ingredients are still bioavailable for human consumption? Who is going to know? As long as the product tastes alright, no one will even question it.
    I recall layne norton stating BCAA's are stable for periods of days once mixed up.
    What makes you think Creatine goes bad in 24 hours once mixed up? What source do you have to back this claim up?

    Who is going to know? Companies who 3rd party test their products and show the COA of the product and Mike from Scivation does not hesitate to show you his whey has been tested and is legit, Xtend is tested and legit etc. he is one of the owners i respect the most because of how when he does formulate a product he backs it up by making sure you get what is exactly on the label and does not try to give you a filler full product that tastes good, he will give you a good tasting product that meets label claims.


    i know if you search the forms you can find older threads that show documents like these:

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  6. #36
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    skyrocket? they are already insanely over priced
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  7. #37
    I study things Mike McCandless's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by optimus1 View Post
    what no one discusses, but is of course the most important question, is whether BCAAs are stable in solution for extended periods. We all know that creatine in water goes bad in, what, 24 hours or less? What it converts to is creatinine, which is not a helpful thing to be consuming. When you see an RTD on the shelf that has been sitting in various temperatures for weeks or months on end, do you really think that all the aminos and other ingredients have not destabilized? Do you think that the companies selling these products really care if the label ingredients are still bioavailable for human consumption? Who is going to know? As long as the product tastes alright, no one will even question it.
    By law, if you put an expiration date on a supplement you have to be within 5% of label claim at the point of expiration. There are only a handful of acceleration chambers in the country and 90% of companies in our industry have never used them. It will be the single biggest downfall of this industry in 2-5 lawyers. Lawyers are stocking up on products and letting them sit untouched. They will wait till expiration, test them and then sue the piss out of everyone that is off. You can save this post and in 2016-17 come back and say damn he was right.

    We know how long our version can stay shelf stable. Within 5 months I'll know what it looks like 2 years post production. You are right most companies don't care, but there are some of us that actually give a ****.

    *I put by law because the law doesn't require you to put an expiration date on a product
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  8. #38
    Я русский TheFugitive's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mike McCandless View Post
    Yes that's why he called it flavored water. BPI spent 2 years bashing bcaas saying saa were amazing and how inferior bcaas were. They didn't work, nobody bought it and BPI came out with a bcaa.
    Back to flaming products again. Your such a class act
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  9. #39
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    Originally Posted by PricePlow View Post
    Personally, as someone "in" the industry but not the one making the products, I think a lot of you are all crazy for the way you market this stuff.

    Here's my real rant -- please feel free to tear it up.

    Bodybuilders and "bro-builders" are a great market, but I think there's a bigger market in amateur sports athletes. The zillions of kids playing club soccer... and maybe his soccer mom if you're lucky.

    While you guys are bickering about "SAA vs BCAA" (which is a legit argument), it's a total boner move in the big picture. The word "Amino acids" simply scares "regular" people for whatever reason... and now you're throwing 7 letters worth of acronyms at them. Good luck selling that to concerned soccer mom... the woman who's go the cash, BTW.

    Now we're stuck eating each other's lunch, going after the same 27 year old bodybuilder who happens to be on a caloric deficit... or doing some BS borderline-unethical marketing about taking this during a bulk. Either way, it's too small of a market and what you get are all of us companies taking giant dumps all over each others' carpets.

    So rather than mess with his nonsense, MusclePharm starts branding Amino1 as "The Athlete's Cocktail". A less scary name, and definitely a shift. And now it's in Costco... queue itsbeginning.gif

    So my question to the Mike McCandlesses and Vaughns out there... who's gonna sack up and take it a full nine and just rebrand this as a "SPORTS DRINK" and go after a totally new market? Why not?

    After all, isn't that where you can do some serious market damage that trumps the rest of this? Doesn't the general public "deserve" and want these products?

    + BCAA
    + ALCAR
    + underdosed Beta Alanine so they can maybe just feel it (?)
    + dextrose
    Take it to the masses... = gamechanger?
    We sacked up

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  10. #40
    I study things Mike McCandless's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TheFugitive View Post
    Back to flaming products again. Your such a class act
    Did I say anything that was untrue?

    Here is the BPI ad saying it down regulates CNS. Marginal research data supporting it. "Outdated"

    The ad goes on bashing bcaa's as being archaic. Yet less than 2 years later, BPI releases a BCAA........
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  11. #41
    MauiAthletics.com powercage's Avatar
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    Wait, is Blox BCAA now? Was unaware
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    I'm pretty sure your wrong, but care to elaborate...

    Disclaimer: The above post is my personal opinion and does not represent the official position of any company or entity. It does not constitute medical advice.
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  12. #42
    I study things Mike McCandless's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by powercage View Post
    Wait, is Blox BCAA now? Was unaware
    Blox is still on shelves, no idea if it's still being made. Now they make a BCAA. Just normal industry stuff. This stuff sucks, it's horrible, it's terrible, try our new fruit punch version.
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  13. #43
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    Originally Posted by HeavenBeyond View Post
    Amino Energy is actually one of my favorite products. I don't buy it for the BCAAs, just the caffeine. I actually prefer it to coffee. And it keeps my teeth white
    Same, it's fine. I put it in a morning drink with powdered greens and is a healthy way to mask the taste and get a boost of energy. I don't think it's deserving of the hate, but I also don't think it should be marketed as something it isn't.
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  14. #44
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    Originally Posted by Mike McCandless View Post
    Blox is still on shelves, no idea if it's still being made. Now they make a BCAA. Just normal industry stuff. This stuff sucks, it's horrible, it's terrible, try our new fruit punch version.
    Blox is still being made, stop by the booth for a sample
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    I honestly thought Scivation was slowly going out of business since that Lobeliner guy sold the company. Is McCandles the new owner? Kind of weird a supplement company CEO trolls around the boards. Maybe it's cool, I just figured he'd have better things to do.
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  17. #47
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    Originally Posted by Mike McCandless View Post
    The reason bcaa's RTD's haven't been made in efficacious doses is stability. We've worked on it for 18 months as a combo project with Glanbia. The downside is that means ABB will get it, but is what it is. We couldn't have done it without their assistance. We're still flavoring at this point.
    Bumping this thread.

    Looks like MusclePharm is indeed making an Amino1 RTD. This is basically what I'd been asking for.

    Bets on whether or not it will work out for them? Can they take a bite out of Gatorate/Powerade's market?

    Edit: Yeah, they're going after it: Clinical Research Study in Nutrition Journal Demonstrates That MusclePharm(R) Amino1(TM) Rehydrates Faster Than Water and Gatorade(R) ... got my blog post material for the day
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  18. #48
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    inb4 all our macros come from RTDs avaliable in delicious fruit punch & blue razz
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    Already saw BCAA drinks being sampled at Costco.

    So i guess it's already started.
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    Originally Posted by mleeban View Post
    Already saw BCAA drinks being sampled at Costco.

    So i guess it's already started.
    I tried one last week at Costco also
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  21. #51
    up the dosage eatyourspinach's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by PricePlow View Post
    Bumping this thread.

    Looks like MusclePharm is indeed making an Amino1 RTD. This is basically what I'd been asking for.

    Bets on whether or not it will work out for them? Can they take a bite out of Gatorate/Powerade's market?

    Edit: Yeah, they're going after it: Clinical Research Study in Nutrition Journal Demonstrates That MusclePharm(R) Amino1(TM) Rehydrates Faster Than Water and Gatorade(R) ... got my blog post material for the day
    "Overall, there appears to be a potential benefit of a BCAA and/or potassium containing beverage on intracellular hydration. However, it is not clear from the present study which of the two solutes are driving this process" http://www.nutritionj.com/content/13/1/47
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    Originally Posted by TheFugitive View Post
    I tried one last week at Costco also
    It wasn't amazing - Lots of Glutamine.

    I sipped on the fruit punch and honestly I have tried better flavoring.
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    Originally Posted by mleeban View Post
    It wasn't amazing - Lots of Glutamine.

    I sipped on the fruit punch and honestly I have tried better flavoring.
    Cherry limeade was one of the strongest flavored intraworkouts I've ever had - haven't had any others.

    I liked it, but have definitely had better. Ronnie Coleman's cherry limeade is a better take.
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    It's live:

    Amino1 vs Gatorade – Can MusclePharm take on Sports Drinks?

    It's long reading for the bathroom, but I'd love any comments. I've wanted this for nearly a decade. Does this warrant its own thread?
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  25. #55
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    Originally Posted by PricePlow View Post
    It's live:

    Amino1 vs Gatorade – Can MusclePharm take on Sports Drinks?

    It's long reading for the bathroom, but I'd love any comments. I've wanted this for nearly a decade. Does this warrant its own thread?
    The corresponding author of the study that is testing this and showing that the two are comparable has a musclepharm email address, that doesn't make you question the validity at all?
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    Tried a sample of BLOX last year, worst watermelon flavor I've had to date. Srs.
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    Originally Posted by RunningTall View Post
    Tried a sample of BLOX last year, worst watermelon flavor I've had to date. Srs.
    great, because I have a couple of samples of this, that I'm going to use today. Oh well, if it's bad, then I'm gonna suck it up.
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    I have been wanting a product like this for years as well. I can definitely see it succeeding if people know what it is used for and when it should be used.





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    Curious as to how commercial they go with these
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