Phosphatidic Acid (PA)

[Danes]

I searched about this on this forum and generally on the internet but seems like it does not get any attention.


Efficacy of phosphatidic acid ingestion on lean body mass, muscle thickness and strength gains in resistance-trained men.


Abstract
BACKGROUND

Phosphatidic acid (PA) has been reported to activate the mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR) signaling pathway and is thought to enhance the anabolic effects of resistance training. The purpose of this pilot study was to examine if oral phosphatidic acid administration can enhance strength, muscle thickness and lean tissue accruement during an 8-week resistance training program.

METHODS:
Sixteen resistance-trained men were randomly assigned to a group that either consumed 750 mg of PA (n = 7, 23.1 ± 4.4 y; 176.7 ± 6.7 cm; 86.5 ± 21.2 kg) or a placebo (PL, n = 9, 22.5 ± 2.0 y; 179.8 ± 5.4 cm; 89.4 ± 13.6 kg) group. During each testing session subjects were assessed for strength (one repetition maximum [1-RM] bench press and squat) and body composition. Muscle thickness and pennation angle were also measured in the vastus lateralis of the subject's dominant leg.

RESULTS:
Subjects ingesting PA demonstrated a 12.7% increase in squat strength and a 2.6% increase in LBM, while subjects consuming PL showed a 9.3% improvement in squat strength and a 0.1% change in LBM. Although parametric analysis was unable to demonstrate significant differences, magnitude based inferences indicated that the Δ change in 1-RM squat showed a likely benefit from PA on increasing lower body strength and a very likely benefit for increasing lean body mass (LBM).

CONCLUSIONS:
Results of this study suggest that a combination of a daily 750 mg PA ingestion, combined with a 4-day per week resistance training program for 8-weeks appears to have a likely benefit on strength improvement, and a very likely benefit on lean tissue accruement in young, resistance trained individuals.

Someone tried it?
Biotest has made a supplement with (PA) but I know what you guys thing about Biotest

[djwolford]

The placebo group also showed a lesser yet similar improvement in strength over the course of the study iirc. Come back at us when there's a study involving more than an 8+8 group.

For right now I'd say it's not worth buying, but I've been wrong before.

[djwolford]

This was also from Flex iirc? They also had an interesting article about how you should be taking 30g creatine a day.

Remember who pays the bills for that magazine.

[TMac26]

There is more research coming on it. A very good study in trained athletes showing a significant increase in LBM.



Its good stuff, and I think the patent will be introduced before too long on it.

[Danes]

This was also from Flex iirc? They also had an interesting article about how you should be taking 30g creatine a day.

Remember who pays the bills for that magazine.

To be honest, I came across Biotest PA product. I am NOT fan of Biotest product since they compare their products with illegal stuff such as their Carbolin 19 (same as anavar).

[djwolford]

To be honest, I came across Biotest PA product. I am NOT fan of Biotest product since they compare their products with illegal stuff such as their Carbolin 19 (same as anavar).

Fair enough. I'm not saying it's bunk, just that I'm remaining skeptical until I either see better studies or try it for myself with noticable gains.

[ChemiNutra]

Hi Guys,

The science related to Phosphatidic Acid (PA) is escalating quickly. Here is some notable info to bring you up to speed on Mediator® PA, our branded Phosphatidic Acid (PA) raw material:

Safety:
PA’s efficacy is one thing, but safety takes precedence. On that end, PA is very, very safe; in fact, it is a food constituent. A very small amount can be found in foods such as raw cabbage, tomatoes, green peas, and cucumbers. Hence the point of dietary supplements, to supplement the preexisting diet.

In addition to this, we have conducted a series of safety studies to set any doubts aside. These include toxicity studies, showing that even an unrealistically high dose has no toxic effect, and an analysis of kidney, liver, and cardiovascular function in humans.

Bioavailability:
Oral bioavailability is great. Blood was drawn in a subject at various time points up to 7 hours following administration of 750 mg of PA; concentrations of PA peaked at three hours and it was elevated in the plasma even after seven hours.

Human Clinical Research:
Thus far we have conducted three human efficacy studies. The first one has been making the rounds already; it can be viewed and downloaded as an open access study here: jissn.com/content/9/1/47

The above study, performed by Jay R. Hoffman et al. at the University of Central Florida, Orlando, utilized 16 resistance-trained men. Some people consider the amount of subjects small, but this number is in fact statistically significant. There were some great results from this study, however, their training was not supervised. Greater increases in strength and musculature is often found in studies where subjects were supervised.

Thus, the purpose of the second study was to more accurately measure precise strength markers and make sure training was adequate. This study was performed by Jordan M. Joy and Jacob M. Wilson at The University of Tampa, FL. The full paper has not been published at this point in time; but the results were presented at the annual International Society of Sports Nutrition (ISSN) conference in June 2013. Four separate posters were also shown on the study and supporting experiments; you can view them here (they are all open access):

Phosphatidic acid supplementation increases skeletal muscle hypertrophy and strength: jissn.com/content/10/S1/P13

Soy-derived Phosphatidic Acid, Lysophosphatidic acid and Phosphatidylserine are sufficient to induce an increase in mTOR signaling: jissn.com/content/10/S1/P7

Effect of oral administration of soy-derived phosphatidic acid on concentrations of phosphatidic acid and lyso-phosphatidic acid molecular species in human plasma: jissn.com/content/10/S1/P22

Safety of soy-derived phosphatidic acid supplementation in healthy young males: jissn.com/content/10/S1/P6

As you can see in the first poster presentation, the results are very impressive. This placebo-controlled study was performed on twenty eight subjects total; these were already trained individuals. All study subjects worked out three times per week for eight weeks in a monitored environment. The subjects that received PA gained 5.3 lbs of lean muscle mass vs the 2.6 lbs that the placebo group gained; that translates to roughly twice the gains in LBM for the PA group. The PA group also gained 47% in bench press strength versus the placebo group. It is worth mentioning too that there was a trend for PA subjects to decrease body fat to a greater extent than the placebo group.

A third study was performed to see if PA could work in an older population that is sedentary. The results have not been released or published.

A fourth human clinical study will begin next month at another notable University.

[TMac26]

I wonder if they are going to comment on the lawsuit they are in for stealing the research from someone else.


Word for word.


Then filing the patent with said research.

[VinnyPazRules]

Hi Guys,

The science related to Phosphatidic Acid (PA) is escalating quickly. Here is some notable info to bring you up to speed on Mediator® PA, our branded Phosphatidic Acid (PA) raw material:

Safety:
PA’s efficacy is one thing, but safety takes precedence. On that end, PA is very, very safe; in fact, it is a food constituent. A very small amount can be found in foods such as raw cabbage, tomatoes, green peas, and cucumbers. Hence the point of dietary supplements, to supplement the preexisting diet.

In addition to this, we have conducted a series of safety studies to set any doubts aside. These include toxicity studies, showing that even an unrealistically high dose has no toxic effect, and an analysis of kidney, liver, and cardiovascular function in humans.

Bioavailability:
Oral bioavailability is great. Blood was drawn in a subject at various time points up to 7 hours following administration of 750 mg of PA; concentrations of PA peaked at three hours and it was elevated in the plasma even after seven hours.

Human Clinical Research:
Thus far we have conducted three human efficacy studies. The first one has been making the rounds already; it can be viewed and downloaded as an open access study here: jissn.com/content/9/1/47

The above study, performed by Jay R. Hoffman et al. at the University of Central Florida, Orlando, utilized 16 resistance-trained men. Some people consider the amount of subjects small, but this number is in fact statistically significant. There were some great results from this study, however, their training was not supervised. Greater increases in strength and musculature is often found in studies where subjects were supervised.

Thus, the purpose of the second study was to more accurately measure precise strength markers and make sure training was adequate. This study was performed by Jordan M. Joy and Jacob M. Wilson at The University of Tampa, FL. The full paper has not been published at this point in time; but the results were presented at the annual International Society of Sports Nutrition (ISSN) conference in June 2013. Four separate posters were also shown on the study and supporting experiments; you can view them here (they are all open access):

Phosphatidic acid supplementation increases skeletal muscle hypertrophy and strength: jissn.com/content/10/S1/P13

Soy-derived Phosphatidic Acid, Lysophosphatidic acid and Phosphatidylserine are sufficient to induce an increase in mTOR signaling: jissn.com/content/10/S1/P7

Effect of oral administration of soy-derived phosphatidic acid on concentrations of phosphatidic acid and lyso-phosphatidic acid molecular species in human plasma: jissn.com/content/10/S1/P22

Safety of soy-derived phosphatidic acid supplementation in healthy young males: jissn.com/content/10/S1/P6

As you can see in the first poster presentation, the results are very impressive. This placebo-controlled study was performed on twenty eight subjects total; these were already trained individuals. All study subjects worked out three times per week for eight weeks in a monitored environment. The subjects that received PA gained 5.3 lbs of lean muscle mass vs the 2.6 lbs that the placebo group gained; that translates to roughly twice the gains in LBM for the PA group. The PA group also gained 47% in bench press strength versus the placebo group. It is worth mentioning too that there was a trend for PA subjects to decrease body fat to a greater extent than the placebo group.

A third study was performed to see if PA could work in an older population that is sedentary. The results have not been released or published.

A fourth human clinical study will begin next month at another notable University.

Hi Im using micro pa and can certainly attest to its efficiency. It is GREAT stuff especially for a natural lifter. Will you be selling it to any companies other then biotest?

[VinnyPazRules]

I wonder if they are going to comment on the lawsuit they are in for stealing the research from someone else.


Word for word.



Then filing the patent with said research.

What do you mean? Are you saying the research is not true? The stuff works I know that? And if they are in a lawsuit doesn't mean the plaintiff isn't the liar ya know.

[TMac26]

What do you mean? Are you saying the research is not true? The stuff works I know that? And if they are in a lawsuit doesn't mean the plaintiff isn't the liar ya know.

They compound works. But the issue is, someone brought this research to them, in order to get a source for the extract.


They saw the potential, and stole all the research, claimed it as their own, and filed the patents on it.

[VinnyPazRules]

They compound works. But the issue is, someone brought this research to them, in order to get a source for the extract.


They saw the potential, and stole all the research, claimed it as their own, and filed the patents on it.

Wow!

[VinnyPazRules]

Another company just came out with the product for 85.99 same dose and servings as biotest. I guess that proves they're not a rip off after all?

[kissdadookie]

Not for nothing, Biotest protein is legit and priced pretty much at where most other proteins are priced at.

It's there other stuff that are priced questionably and the as copy just boggles the mind in a bad way :P

[Danes]

Not for nothing, Biotest protein is legit and priced pretty much at where most other proteins are priced at.

It's there other stuff that are priced questionably and the as copy just boggles the mind in a bad way :P

Some of you know i am big fan of PA after many months of usage. One of feeeeew supplements that worked for me without changing dietplan or workout routine.

I am not sure if this was posted before but here u go



Phosphatidic acid enhances mTOR signaling and resistance exercise induced hypertrophy

Jordan M Joy1, David M Gundermann2, Ryan P Lowery1, Ralf Jäger3, Sean A McCleary1, Martin Purpura3, Michael D Roberts4, Stephanie MC Wilson5, Troy A Hornberger2 and Jacob M Wilson1*

* Corresponding author: Jacob M Wilsonjmwilson@ut.edu

Introduction

The lipid messenger phosphatidic acid (PA) plays a critical role in the stimulation of mTOR signaling. However, the mechanism by which PA stimulates mTOR is currently unknown. Therefore, the purpose of this study was to compare the effects of various PA precursors and phospholipids on their ability to stimulate mTOR signaling and its ability to augment resistance training-induced changes in body composition and performance.

Methods

In phase one, C2C12 myoblasts cells were stimulated with different phospholipids and phospholipid precursors derived from soy and egg sources. The ratio of phosphorylated p70 (P-p70-389) to total p70 was then used as readout for mTOR signaling. In phase two, resistance trained subjects (n = 28, 21 ± 3 years, 77 ± 4 kg, 176 ± 9 cm) consumed either 750 mg PA daily or placebo and each took part in an 8 week periodized resistance training program.

Results

In phase one, soy-phosphatidylserine, soy-Lyso-PA, egg-PA, and soy-PA stimulated mTOR signaling, and the effects of soy-PA (+636%) were significantly greater than egg-PA (+221%). In phase two, PA significantly increased lean body mass (+2.4 kg), cross sectional area (+1.0 cm), and leg press strength (+51.9 kg) over placebo.

Conclusion

PA significantly activates mTOR and significantly improved responses in skeletal muscle hypertrophy, lean body mass, and maximal strength to resistance exercise.

[Danes]

I really hope companies dont use PA from eggs now or in future :P

[TheFugitive]

The future looks very bright for PA

[DGarcia519]

To be honest, I came across Biotest PA product. I am NOT fan of Biotest product since they compare their products with illegal stuff such as their Carbolin 19 (same as anavar).

I've used BioTest stuff in the past and was always more that satisfied (Plazma is ****ing amazing!) - my only issue is the cost of almost all their products. That said I have never used Carbolin 19, nor do I really know anything about it. What's the issue and what makes it illegal? Or do you mean they compare C-19 with illegal products?

[kissdadookie]

I really hope companies dont use PA from eggs now or in future :P

Yeah, we don't want the PA that gets incorporated easily into cell membranes such as egg sourced PA. The MOA of supplemental PA on mTOR seems to be through the extracellular pathway (extracellular PA -> LPA -> ERK -> mTOR).

[Tomohawk92]

3.4% increase over 8 weeks.. not really impressed
at least it's only 750mg dose

[Danes]

I've used BioTest stuff in the past and was always more that satisfied (Plazma is ****ing amazing!) - my only issue is the cost of almost all their products. That said I have never used Carbolin 19, nor do I really know anything about it. What's the issue and what makes it illegal? Or do you mean they compare C-19 with illegal products?

Biotest have actually some great supps .
Some of them are overpriced but i am huuuuge fan of MICRO - PA and i would like to try Plazma with Mag10.

Carbolin 19 is not a bad product (carbonate ester of forskolin).
They made it many years ago before many other brands.
Now is forskolin one og the best natural things u can take.
BIOTEST Said its better than anavar:P but hey, there are many other brands that claims same things

Posphatidic Acid will deff be a big hit soon

[Danes]

Yeah, we don't want the PA that gets incorporated easily into cell membranes such as egg sourced PA. The MOA of supplemental PA on mTOR seems to be through the extracellular pathway (extracellular PA -> LPA -> ERK -> mTOR).

I really believe PA will get more attention soon. Like i said before, it is one of the best things i have used without changing training routine or dietplan

I would like to use KING and add More PA with Micro-PA .

PA+good dose of Leucine+HMB-FA in one supplement should be good stuf
MAXXtor by Maxmuscle has PA ,leucine and calcium HMB

[TheFugitive]

I really believe PA will get more attention soon. Like i said before, it is one of the best things i have used without changing training routine or dietplan

I would like to use KING and add More PA with Micro-PA .

PA+good dose of Leucine+HMB-FA in one supplement should be good stuf
MAXXtor by Maxmuscle has PA ,leucine and calcium HMB

How much of an increase are you talking?

[kissdadookie]

How much of an increase are you talking?

Danes is taking like a gram right now I think. Possibly gram and a quarter.

[Danes]

How much of an increase are you talking?

My strength has really improved and i have added 10 lbs in 3 month. I know, 10lbs can be added without any supps just eating extra calories but like i said i havent been eating more than i use too and last 8 months my weight was the same before i added PA .

I know PA ia working great for me and will deff usw this month after month!

I tried to take 4-6 weeks of but the first thing i noticed was less sweating,my apetitte was not so high as on PA and other things.

i do take 1.5 gram of it and not 750mg

[llahhsoj]

My strength has really improved and i have added 10 lbs in 3 month. I know, 10lbs can be added without any supps just eating extra calories but like i said i havent been eating more than i use too and last 8 months my weight was the same before i added PA .

I know PA ia working great for me and will deff usw this month after month!

I tried to take 4-6 weeks of but the first thing i noticed was less sweating,my apetitte was not so high as on PA and other things.

i do take 1.5 gram of it and not 750mg

That is great news because I just got two bottles of King. I do have about 3 weeks of CM left. I'm thinking about starting King anyways.

[Danes]

That is great news because I just got two bottles of King. I do have about 3 weeks of CM left. I'm thinking about starting King anyways.

I hope you enjoy it like i do
Will add CM to PA when 11 CM bottles arrive soon
Will dose 3 gram of hmb fa (cm) in the beginning and increase up to 6 g

[acecombact1]

I really believe PA will get more attention soon. Like i said before, it is one of the best things i have used without changing training routine or dietplan

I would like to use KING and add More PA with Micro-PA .

PA+good dose of Leucine+HMB-FA in one supplement should be good stuf
MAXXtor by Maxmuscle has PA ,leucine and calcium HMB

Im adding HMB-Ca to PA/King. Increasing protein intake post work out on this stack should be elevated in theory due to mTor elevation, and increase in insulin sensitivity post workout. I think this would be perfect for recomp or on caloric deficit to decrease muscle loss.



Adding creatine and acitvating phosphatase kinase will be synergistic to heavy resistance training type of workouts in case of bulk

[TheFugitive]

My strength has really improved and i have added 10 lbs in 3 month. I know, 10lbs can be added without any supps just eating extra calories but like i said i havent been eating more than i use too and last 8 months my weight was the same before i added PA .

I know PA ia working great for me and will deff usw this month after month!

I tried to take 4-6 weeks of but the first thing i noticed was less sweating,my apetitte was not so high as on PA and other things.

i do take 1.5 gram of it and not 750mg

That is great news because I just got two bottles of King. I do have about 3 weeks of CM left. I'm thinking about starting King anyways.

I'm looking forward to the new studies with different doses. The 10lb increases are very solid

[TheFugitive]

That is great news because I just got two bottles of King. I do have about 3 weeks of CM left. I'm thinking about starting King anyways.

If you got a good feel for CM at this point, you might as well start King