"Fierce 5" Novice Routine

[davisj3537]

Hey, if i were to do chin ups instead of the pulldowns, how many reps of bodyweight would you recommend before adding weight?, then how many reps before adding weight after?.

Also, would dips be a good sub for the pushdowns?.

Working chin ups in the 6-10 range would be good. When you get to 10 then add weight. I love dips, but you can't sub them for pressdowns. That would be swapping a isolation exercise for a compound.

[HDiddy747]

Hi Davis

29 year old, 5'6, 138lbs ~13% BF. Sick and tired of being on a cut, ready to go on a clean bulk (10% - 15% above TDEE)
Currently on a routine I just made up (which happens to be almost exactly the same as allpro)

5RMs
squat - 185lbs
bench - 165lbs
press - 85lbs
deadlift - 230lbs

Due to limitations of what equipment I have access to, what exercises I have excellent form on (learned with a strength coach,) what equipment is frequently open at my gym, and my personal goals based off my body and current stats, I've made a few modification based on your principles.

Can you please take a look and let me know if you have any suggestions??

Thanks!

A1
3x5 Barbell Back Squat
3x5 Flat Bench Press
3x5 Barbell Row
3x8 Barbell Shrugs
3x8 Dips (Weighted)
2x8 EZ Bar Curls - Wide
2x8 Calf Raises
3x10 Extensions (Weighted)

B1
3x5 Barbell Back Squat
1x5 Deadlift
3x5 Standing Overhead Press
3x5 Wide Grip Pullups (Weighted)
2x8 Tricep Cable Pulldown
2x8 EZ Bar Curls - Close
2x8 Calf Raises
3xMax Crunches


A2
3x5 Barbell Back Squat
3x5 Incline Bench Press
3x5 Barbell Row
3x8 Barbell Shrugs
3x8 Dips (Weighted)
2x8 EZ Bar Curls - Wide
2x8 Calf Raises
3x10 Extensions (Weighted)


B2
1x5 Barbell Back Squat @ 50%
3x5 Deadlift
3x5 Standing Overhead Press
3x5 Chinups (Weighted)
2x8 Tricep Cable Pulldown
2x8 EZ Bar Curls - Close
2x8 Calf Raises
3xMax Crunches


When I start stalling (3 compound lifts or more) and am stuck at the same weight,
I plan on resetting all lifts to 75%, upping the major compounds to 4 sets, and increasing calories.

[datsnutty]

What would be the pros/cons of turning this into a 5x5 instead of a 3x5?

Workout A
Squat 5x5
Bench 5x5
Pendlay Rows 5x5
Reverse Flies 3x8
Calf extensions 2x15/Tricep pressdowns 2x10 Superset

Workout B
Deadlift 3x5
OHP 5x5
Pull Ups 5x5 (or more/weighted)
Leg Curls 3x8
Alternate crunches or situps w/ leg raises each workout 2x15/Barbell curls 2x10 Superset

[davisj3537]

Can you please take a look and let me know if you have any suggestions??

That isn't this routine. If you'd like a routine critique you should make a thread for it.

What would be the pros/cons of turning this into a 5x5 instead of a 3x5?

It is too much volume IMO. You can change whatever you like, but if I thought for a second that 5x5 would provide better results I would have made the program that way.

[starx6673]

In my second week now and upping the weights accordingly. I like the steady progress of this routine and can do them all at home, so I only hit the gym for cardio work (I really like the C2 Concept rower!).

For workout B I switched lat pulldowns for pull ups/chin ups. Leg curls are done with a power band and that works amazingly well, have to fiddle around with the different bands to see when I can go heavier.

[davisj3537]

In my second week now and upping the weights accordingly. I like the steady progress of this routine and can do them all at home, so I only hit the gym for cardio work (I really like the C2 Concept rower!).

For workout B I switched lat pulldowns for pull ups/chin ups. Leg curls are done with a power band and that works amazingly well, have to fiddle around with the different bands to see when I can go heavier.

Sounds good bud. I'm glad to hear you are enjoying it.

[CagedInSanity]

Pants are already getting tight around the thighs haha

[davisj3537]

Pants are already getting tight around the thighs haha

I had to buy a bunch of new pants recently. Lol. It is a fun, but costly milestone.

[birdwalkr2]

If I don't have access to barbell bench press, how do I progress with dumbbell bench press? The dumbells go up in weight by intervals of fives, 25 Lbers, 30 Lbers, 35 Lbers. So I can only really go up in intervals of ten. Thoughts?

[davisj3537]

If I don't have access to barbell bench press, how do I progress with dumbbell bench press? The dumbells go up in weight by intervals of fives, 25 Lbers, 30 Lbers, 35 Lbers. So I can only really go up in intervals of ten. Thoughts?

Obviously, unless you get magnetic micro plates, you would be limited to 10lb increases every two weeks instead of every week. What I'd recommend doing is adding a few reps on the week you don't increase weight. So do sets of 7 if on 3x5 and sets of 12 if on 3x10.

[Yarin1312]

Obviously, unless you get magnetic micro plates, you would be limited to 10lb increases every two weeks instead of every week. What I'd recommend doing is adding a few reps on the week you don't increase weight. So do sets of 7 if on 3x5 and sets of 12 if on 3x10.

i have a question about the program, i'm newbie in the gym (1 month of doing abc with friend that workout few years, and 1 month of actually doing nothing) and now i'm want to start a good program,
i'm really thiny right now, and i want to gain muslce and gain weight, is the program is for me? how much weight i have to gain every month? its the kind of the programs that i'm going to be fat for a while
or not? i mean if i'm going to gain weight and muslce with good body, to look train and not to look fat
In short to forget about my body for a while or not necessarily?

by the way you have some pictures of people that did this program? the result of before and after and that cool staff?
aand one more thing(sorry about the question) its for building or for lifting? power or volume?

[davisj3537]

Your body composition is almost PURELY determined by how much you eat. You will build muscle and look good from doing any routine if you are eating appropriately. There aren't pictures of people who've done this program because I wrote it two weeks ago. Read the nutrition link in the original post and eat accordingly. I'd suggest aiming to gain 1lb a week. If I didn't think this program was perfect for people like you, I wouldn't have spent this much time writing it.

[TraposaurusRx]

Do you think maybe the program would be a good program to run after SS?

Like run SS and when you stall move on to this since it goes to a slightly slower progession scheme?

Also if working out M-W-F how do you feel about doing some running/cardio and light calisthenics on T-Th?

[davisj3537]

Do you think maybe the program would be a good program to run after SS?

Like run SS and when you stall move on to this since it goes to a slightly slower progession scheme?

Also if working out M-W-F how do you feel about doing some running/cardio and light calisthenics on T-Th?

This progression is too fast to hope that you'll be able to keep up with it after running SS. If you don't think 160lbs on your squat in 4 months isn't fast progression I don't know what to tell you man. There is nothing wrong with cardio/light calisthenics.

[Slickrock]

This progression is too fast to hope that you'll be able to keep up with it after running SS. If you don't think 160lbs on your squat in 4 months isn't fast progression I don't know what to tell you man. There is nothing wrong with cardio/light calisthenics.

I am totally new to weightlifting. I am currently running AllPros and trying to get down to around 10-12% bodyfat. I am almost through one cycle and expecting to hit my BF goal after another 1-2 cycles of AllPro. The progression in AllPro's is much slower than SS. This seems like the perfect program to start a slow bulk on. Hopefully, I'll still have some newbie gains left and be able to progress like you outlined. Thoughts on that plan?

[davisj3537]

I am totally new to weightlifting. I am currently running AllPros and trying to get down to around 10-12% bodyfat. I am almost through one cycle and expecting to hit my BF goal after another 1-2 cycles of AllPro. The progression in AllPro's is much slower than SS. This seems like the perfect program to start a slow bulk on. Hopefully, I'll still have some newbie gains left and be able to progress like you outlined. Thoughts on that plan?

This is more of a program to start on...not one to move onto after a different program. This is due to the faster progression that beginners are able to handle. I'd switch to this one now or stick with all pros. Either choice is fine. All pros is a great program as well.

[Yarin1312]

Why there is nothing for hands? And only 5 reps is not elemant of power?

[BGman1]

Hidavisj3537 ,

I am interested in starting Fierce 5. However, due to other commitments I can do weekends only. I am a complete beginner, would you recommend the program for me considering that there will be no rest day as I will be doing Sat and Sun.

About me: Height: 175cm ( 5'9"), Weight: 85kgs (187 pounds) which makes me overweight.

Moreover, I have been looking at this: bodybuilding.com/fun/wotw6.htm mivi320's in particular
is it for beginners?


Thanks in advance for your answer

[HDiddy747]

Why there is nothing for hands? And only 5 reps is not elemant of power?

Your hands hold the bar.
When the weights get heavy, you'll need to hold on tighter.

This routine is solid, and works out everything, without too much volume which is a good thing.

If you don't feel like you get enough hand work, maybe you could go home and masturbate right after the gym.

[davisj3537]

Hidavisj3537 ,

I am interested in starting Fierce 5. However, due to other commitments I can do weekends only. I am a complete beginner, would you recommend the program for me considering that there will be no rest day as I will be doing Sat and Sun.

About me: Height: 175cm ( 5'9"), Weight: 85kgs (187 pounds) which makes me overweight.

Moreover, I have been looking at this: bodybuilding.com/fun/wotw6.htm mivi320's in particular
is it for beginners?


Thanks in advance for your answer

This program is not for you. mivi320s is a good option for Sat,Sun only each week.

[ahk11]

Excited to start this program next week. I have been lifting off and on for a couple years with SS and really let myself go last fall (haven't lifted regularly in about 6 months). I am ready to get back in the gym, and this looks much more interesting than SS and fits my schedule well. Thanks for writing this!

[davisj3537]

Excited to start this program next week. I have been lifting off and on for a couple years with SS and really let myself go last fall (haven't lifted regularly in about 6 months). I am ready to get back in the gym, and this looks much more interesting than SS and fits my schedule well. Thanks for writing this!

You sir are welcome.

[davisj3537]

I've received so many great questions from you guys that I've decided to add in quite a few more FAQs and further explain some things that appear to be a little confusing. If you guys think of anything else that might be worth of a FAQ then feel free to fire away and it might end up in the edited version.

[Havok69]

Are you planning on putting something together that is a bit beyond a novice routine but using similar principles?

[sontran095]

sir, about starting this routine but i have a question: how can i progress Curl,Tricep Pushdown, Calf raise? 5lbs for Curls, Tri, 10lbs for calf each week? is that too fast for those accessory work?

[davisj3537]

Are you planning on putting something together that is a bit beyond a novice routine but using similar principles?

I've considered putting together an intermediate routine, but overall I feel that in most cases if you are TRULY intermediate then you will understand your own body and understand your own deficiencies enough to write your own program. IF you haven't reached this stage yet, then there are a myriad of other well balanced routines at your disposal. I may write one in the future...time shall tell.

sir, about starting this routine but i have a question: how can i progress Curl,Tricep Pushdown, Calf raise? 5lbs for Curls, Tri, 10lbs for calf each week? is that too fast for those accessory work?

You guessed it right my friend

[sontran095]

thanks sir. forgot i have one more question: so if i do size routine from your advance section, can 5lbs to 3x10 squat each week make me stall early? or i progress diffrent from 3x5.

[davisj3537]

thanks sir. forgot i have one more question: so if i do size routine from your advance section, can 5lbs to 3x10 squat each week make me stall early? or i progress diffrent from 3x5.

The OG program is the easiest/the best program overall

Advanced options 1 & 2 are increasingly difficult. As in OG is the easiest, Advanced 1 is second and advanced 2 is third. Cutting the progression in half will not make you stall early...You'll be able to run this program much longer actually.

[istila]

I just worked out 2 weeks and I will start the option 2 routine tomorrow. I think i'll start a journal to see my progress, i'll post the link here tomorrow. I'm gonna eat at maintenance which is around 2500 calories till I lose some fat and build muscle. Do you think it's a good idea?

[davisj3537]

I just worked out 2 weeks and I will start the option 2 routine tomorrow. I think i'll start a journal to see my progress, i'll post the link here tomorrow. I'm gonna eat at maintenance which is around 2500 calories till I lose some fat and build muscle. Do you think it's a good idea?

If you are brand new to lifting weights eating at maintenance will allow you to lose fat and build muscle, but not for very long. I'd suggest bulking after a few weeks of eating at maintenance.