"Fierce 5" Novice Routine

[HarryValdez]

You can do squats and RDL with DBs.

May not be optimal, but as long as you have a bench and a wide enough variety of DBs I don't see why you couldn't/shouldn't run this program.

[davisj3537]

Some exercises will have to be modified, but if you are a little creative you can make it work.

[PaulRivers]

You can do squats and RDL with DBs.

May not be optimal, but as long as you have a bench and a wide enough variety of DBs I don't see why you couldn't/shouldn't run this program.

Curious what Davis thinks, particularly specifically how one does things like the barbell squat with dumbbells. The last time I research it, it sounded like most "dumbbell squat" techniques used somewhat different muscles than the barbell version.

With dumbbells going up to 100lb's, I definitely have enough weight for me for a while. Might run out eventually, but then could buy my own handles and use the freeweights from the Smith Machine. (200lb's + lower #'s because dumbbell version.)

I've joined a gym last time I was working out, and the problem is it's just to inconvenient. Call me lazy or whatever - lifting is a priority, but not as big of a priority as social things, girls, dating, etc. There's:
1. Additional travel time to the gym.
2. Additional travel time from the gym.
3. Additional time to change clothes. (My feet easily pick up things like athletes foot, so I have to do the don't-touch-the floor-while-changing thing).
4. If you shower, additional time to shower than it would take at home.
5. Waiting for someone else to get done on the power cage (not totally removed at an apartment building gym, but it never seems to be that busy)
6. Gym Hours - I often find time to work out at 11-12pm. Most (not all) gyms are closed at that time of night. The gym at my building is open 24/7.

It just ended up being much, much more difficult to work out at a gym than it is to work out at home. #6 is probably actually the worst one - a lot of times I'd have evening plans, then have time to work out *just* as it was to late to hit the gym.

Edit: I see Davis responded in the middle of me typing my response (thus mine showing up after his), hmm, well guess I'll have to think about it more. I personally don't really have the knowledge to replace exercises, so leaning towards going with an existing program.

[davisj3537]

Curious what Davis thinks, particularly specifically how one does things like the barbell squat with dumbbells. The last time I research it, it sounded like most "dumbbell squat" techniques used somewhat different muscles than the barbell version. They don't really work different muscles, but the emphasis changes a bit due to where on your body the weight is centered. It is like doing a low bar or a high bar back squat. They are both still good squat variations.

You won't really have to substitute much. I'd be happy to help you.

[PaulRivers]

You won't really have to substitute much. I'd be happy to help you.

Ok, I can put some time into it tonight or tomorrow night - would you prefer writing in this thread, private message, etc?

[davisj3537]

Ok, I can put some time into it tonight or tomorrow night - would you prefer writing in this thread, private message, etc?

Lets keep it in here for others I guess.

[ry035]

Just started this routine today. But man it feels like I accomplished nothing today in the gym. Still had the same amount of energy when I was leaving the gym then when I walked in. Barely broke a sweat. Just hard to think I am going to get results by this but I am sticking to this program. I trust ya!!

[HarryValdez]

Just started this routine today. But man it feels like I accomplished nothing today in the gym. Still had the same amount of energy when I was leaving the gym then when I walked in. Barely broke a sweat. Just hard to think I am going to get results by this but I am sticking to this program. I trust ya!!

5-10lb weekly increments add up in a hurry.

[davisj3537]

Just started this routine today. But man it feels like I accomplished nothing today in the gym. Still had the same amount of energy when I was leaving the gym then when I walked in. Barely broke a sweat. Just hard to think I am going to get results by this but I am sticking to this program. I trust ya!!

I can get a good workout by benching 60lbs because my form is good. If you worked on your form, you could do the same. Work on form while the weight is light. It will be heavy soon.

[Flagaba]

Decided to hop on Fierce5 after doing another routine, I'm definitely looking forward to progress as much as I possibly can on it.

[JayB1985]

Hi

not sure if this has been covered but regarding the supersetting of the last few exercises. Can they be done seperately rather than supersets. I only ask as my gym gets very busy and it will be near impossible to have two machines free at the same time.

Thanks

[davisj3537]

Decided to hop on Fierce5 after doing another routine, I'm definitely looking forward to progress as much as I possibly can on it.

Best of luck man.

Hi

not sure if this has been covered but regarding the supersetting of the last few exercises. Can they be done seperately rather than supersets. I only ask as my gym gets very busy and it will be near impossible to have two machines free at the same time.

Thanks

It is only to save time.

[azmic123]

Hey how do you add the weight on the pendlays or lat pulldown and the curls? and I want to develop my traps is there anything I can sub that will help or should i wait until I'm an intermediate?

[davisj3537]

Hey how do you add the weight on the pendlays or lat pulldown and the curls? and I want to develop my traps is there anything I can sub that will help or should i wait until I'm an intermediate?

Those exercises are increased 5lbs per week. I don't see the confusion honestly. Your traps will get worked plenty with the exercises chosen. You literally get the best balanced development on any beginner program. Why mess that up? An upper trap vanity issue will cause shoulder issues in many lifters including myself. Don't put any more upper trap work in the program...

[skodins2231]

Just stumbled upon this routine and really like the looks of it. Thanks for creating. Been doing AllPros since Feb with mixed success. I think I'm going to jump into this on Monday. I try to avoid routine hopping, but I think the change may do me well.

[davisj3537]

Just stumbled upon this routine and really like the looks of it. Thanks for creating. Been doing AllPros since Feb with mixed success. I think I'm going to jump into this on Monday. I try to avoid routine hopping, but I think the change may do me well.

Don't feel about changing programs after 6 months. Good luck.

[skodins2231]

Don't feel about changing programs after 6 months. Good luck.

Thanks. My last working weights for squats and bench with allpro was 155,125 so I think I still have quite a bit of runway left of noob gains that I'm hoping I can get from this program.

[HarryValdez]

Thanks. My last working weights for squats and bench with allpro was 155,125 so I think I still have quite a bit of runway left of noob gains that I'm hoping I can get from this program.

Most likely.

I was at, I believe, 140 squat and 130 bench after 3 cycles of AP and after a month on F5 I'm at 180 squat and 155 bench. Still feel like I'm going to be able to put a decent amount of more weight on the bar before hitting my first stall too.

[skodins2231]

Most likely.

I was at, I believe, 140 squat and 130 bench after 3 cycles of AP and after a month on F5 I'm at 180 squat and 155 bench. Still feel like I'm going to be able to put a decent amount of more weight on the bar before hitting my first stall too.

How did you reset the weight when you switched? Did you do anything to guess starting weights on new exercises? Trying to decide the best path. Next week would be week 1 of new cycle so I need/want to make sure I start light enough to where I'm not starting to heavy. Thinking about using my 2x12 Heavy day weights for 3x5. Should be a bit of a deload. New exercises I'll just guess low, work on form and let the weight catch up.

[HarryValdez]

How did you reset the weight when you switched? Did you do anything to guess starting weights on new exercises? Trying to decide the best path. Next week would be week 1 of new cycle so I need/want to make sure I start light enough to where I'm not starting to heavy. Thinking about using my 2x12 Heavy day weights for 3x5. Should be a bit of a deload. New exercises I'll just guess low, work on form and let the weight catch up.

I wasn't sure exactly how to go about it either. What I ended up doing was for the lifts that were the same or pretty similar (like RDL/SLDL & BOR/Pendlay), I ended up using the weights I would have been using on the next/new cycle of Allpro. In some cases, I went slightly lower than that (e.g. bench I would've been doing 140lb in AP cycle 4 but I started F5 at 135lb). For the new lifts, I did exactly what you have in mind.... just kinda guessed, but guessed light as opposed to heavy.

I'd say when in doubt go light. The good thing is with this program you're putting 5-10lbs on the bar each week. So even if you find you started too low on a particular lift you'll be up to a more challenging weight in no time, and you can work on form in the meantime. You aren't having to wait 5 weeks just to add 10lb to the bar.

[unstrong]

How did you reset the weight when you switched? Did you do anything to guess starting weights on new exercises? Trying to decide the best path. Next week would be week 1 of new cycle so I need/want to make sure I start light enough to where I'm not starting to heavy. Thinking about using my 2x12 Heavy day weights for 3x5. Should be a bit of a deload. New exercises I'll just guess low, work on form and let the weight catch up.

I dropped all my weights 10-15% when I switched from SS to F5. Starting with your all pro 12 rep maxes should work pretty nicely and give you time to adjust, or you could just spend a day testing a starting point (pick a weight that you can probably do 5-10 reps on, calculate a 10 rep max, and start with that).

The accessory work you should just lowball and adjust as you go. That work is mostly restorative, structural, or helpful but unnecessary, so starting too light doesn't matter much.

[skodins2231]

I wasn't sure exactly how to go about it either. What I ended up doing was for the lifts that were the same or pretty similar (like RDL/SLDL & BOR/Pendlay), I ended up using the weights I would have been using on the next/new cycle of Allpro. In some cases, I went slightly lower than that (e.g. bench I would've been doing 140lb in AP cycle 4 but I started F5 at 135lb). For the new lifts, I did exactly what you have in mind.... just kinda guessed, but guessed light as opposed to heavy.

I'd say when in doubt go light. The good thing is with this program you're putting 5-10lbs on the bar each week. So even if you find you started too low on a particular lift you'll be up to a more challenging weight in no time, and you can work on form in the meantime. You aren't having to wait 5 weeks just to add 10lb to the bar.

Sounds as if I have a similar idea to yours to transition. Guess/transition low because you'll make it up quickly

[skodins2231]

I dropped all my weights 10-15% when I switched from SS to F5. Starting with your all pro 12 rep maxes should work pretty nicely and give you time to adjust, or you could just spend a day testing a starting point (pick a weight that you can probably do 5-10 reps on, calculate a 10 rep max, and start with that).

The accessory work you should just lowball and adjust as you go. That work is mostly restorative, structural, or helpful but unnecessary, so starting too light doesn't matter much.

Thanks for this advice as well. Looking forward to getting started

[SxFN20]

So I just switched gyms and started this Monday and just finished workout B today. I know I'm saying this pretty early into the routine, but I felt like this was kind of easy. I'm not that big of a guy, and only have a bit of lifting experience (HS+College Sports lifting + 3-5 months of routine 4 day split with a good amount of volume). I'm like 5'9ish 164-170 and when I stopped this routine (can't link cause of post count ). I was repping like 45-50 pound DB for my db press. So anyways what do you guys think stay with this and see how it is in a few weeks, or switch to something else? I'm probably just saying this because it's pretty early in the routine but yeah, opinions?

[azmic123]

Those exercises are increased 5lbs per week. I don't see the confusion honestly. Your traps will get worked plenty with the exercises chosen. You literally get the best balanced development on any beginner program. Why mess that up? An upper trap vanity issue will cause shoulder issues in many lifters including myself. Don't put any more upper trap work in the program...

thanks I guess I'm overthinking it, I'll do the face pull option and not worry about it

[Pyro05]

So I just switched gyms and started this Monday and just finished workout B today. I know I'm saying this pretty early into the routine, but I felt like this was kind of easy. I'm not that big of a guy, and only have a bit of lifting experience (HS+College Sports lifting + 3-5 months of routine 4 day split with a good amount of volume). I'm like 5'9ish 164-170 and when I stopped this routine (can't link cause of post count ). I was repping like 45-50 pound DB for my db press. So anyways what do you guys think stay with this and see how it is in a few weeks, or switch to something else? I'm probably just saying this because it's pretty early in the routine but yeah, opinions?

Stick at it and follow the progression.

You may think it's easy now but once the weights start increasing you'll see it's very effective.

Use this time to perfect your form on all the major compound lifts.

[davisj3537]

So I just switched gyms and started this Monday and just finished workout B today. I know I'm saying this pretty early into the routine, but I felt like this was kind of easy. I'm not that big of a guy, and only have a bit of lifting experience (HS+College Sports lifting + 3-5 months of routine 4 day split with a good amount of volume). I'm like 5'9ish 164-170 and when I stopped this routine (can't link cause of post count ). I was repping like 45-50 pound DB for my db press. So anyways what do you guys think stay with this and see how it is in a few weeks, or switch to something else? I'm probably just saying this because it's pretty early in the routine but yeah, opinions?

Read the last 5 pages of this thread.

[azmic123]

Subbed wil add my log link when it starts monday

[Time2Sleep00]

Hi, im doing this routine for a month now. I have a steady progress. Is it okay my whole arms shake when doing my last set of OHP/bench press? It is when i do the last 2-3 reps that I shake also its also harder to push the bar up. Is that okay? If not, what should I do

[gregtkeg]

So I just switched gyms and started this Monday and just finished workout B today. I know I'm saying this pretty early into the routine, but I felt like this was kind of easy. I'm not that big of a guy, and only have a bit of lifting experience (HS+College Sports lifting + 3-5 months of routine 4 day split with a good amount of volume). I'm like 5'9ish 164-170 and when I stopped this routine (can't link cause of post count ). I was repping like 45-50 pound DB for my db press. So anyways what do you guys think stay with this and see how it is in a few weeks, or switch to something else? I'm probably just saying this because it's pretty early in the routine but yeah, opinions?

Stay with this and see how it is in a few weeks. I suggest taking advantage of this "easy" phase by using it to really get a handle on your form while the weights are still reasonably light.

I'm on Week 6 now, and I'm at the point where squats are getting really difficult for me (195 lbs working weight), for the first time I can remember. I'm actually really nervous for the next Workout A and for the next couple of weeks, because I've never failed a squat before but I think I see it in my future.

By the way, thanks davis for putting this routine together - like I said I've been doing it for a little while now and now that the weights are getting difficult my workouts feel awesome.